steff
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Post by steff on Aug 23, 2019 16:48:33 GMT -5
If any of this is true, he will have committed political suicide. I can't imagine many people voting for him if he vows to cut SS or medicare. Really. People voted for Trump and against their best interest in this past election. You think they are getting it together and changing their mind this time? People kept electing Paul Ryan who made no secret about his dreams of killing off those programs.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 23, 2019 17:30:09 GMT -5
I complain a little. But it's mostly how many of married or with kids don't realize how much of the burden solos take on. They just see woo no burdens! And it's like well actually you're my burden. My parent's income is about the same as mine but they maybe now barely grasp that they get a lot more in their pockets. I pay several thousand more in income taxes. As well as payroll taxes since they're retired. And though most would say it's a choice, retirement savings takes another large chunk out. Please tell me the tax benefit you think I had when I was married with no children. Look up the marriage penalty. The marriage penalty was essentially ended with the 2018 tax reform. Married people now pay what they would as singles.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 23, 2019 18:08:01 GMT -5
Really. People voted for Trump and against their best interest in this past election. You think they are getting it together and changing their mind this time? People kept electing Paul Ryan who made no secret about his dreams of killing off those programs. Wisconsin has had a problem with gerrymandering for years. Have you ever seen their map? You have to wonder if he would've gotten in, if the map had been drawn up properly.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 23, 2019 18:15:33 GMT -5
I complain a little. But it's mostly how many of married or with kids don't realize how much of the burden solos take on. They just see woo no burdens! And it's like well actually you're my burden. My parent's income is about the same as mine but they maybe now barely grasp that they get a lot more in their pockets. I pay several thousand more in income taxes. As well as payroll taxes since they're retired. And though most would say it's a choice, retirement savings takes another large chunk out. Please tell me the tax benefit you think I had when I was married with no children. Look up the marriage penalty. The marriage penalty was essentially ended with the 2018 tax reform. Married people now pay what they would as singles. A key part was that their gross is about the same as mine. Go look up the tax paid on say 70k married and 70k single. The married people are at least one tax bracket below, maybe two. I agree there is a penalty on dinks that one or both have a high income. But comparing the same income married vs single and the single pays way more.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 23, 2019 18:36:07 GMT -5
Please tell me the tax benefit you think I had when I was married with no children. Look up the marriage penalty. The marriage penalty was essentially ended with the 2018 tax reform. Married people now pay what they would as singles. A key part was that their gross is about the same as mine. Go look up the tax paid on say 70k married and 70k single. The married people are at least one tax bracket below, maybe two. I agree there is a penalty on dinks that one or both have a high income. But comparing the same income married vs single and the single pays way more. My ex and I both made good salaries and we would have been better off being single. Even the phase outs didn’t double for 2 versus 1. We got screwed big time. I’m single now but from what I’ve read, that penalty is now gone.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 23, 2019 18:39:59 GMT -5
A key part was that their gross is about the same as mine. Go look up the tax paid on say 70k married and 70k single. The married people are at least one tax bracket below, maybe two. I agree there is a penalty on dinks that one or both have a high income. But comparing the same income married vs single and the single pays way more. My ex and I both made good salaries and we would have been better off being single. Even the phase outs didn’t double for 2 versus 1. We got screwed big time. I’m single now but from what I’ve read, that penalty is now gone. Yea that wasn't my example at all so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 23, 2019 18:44:44 GMT -5
My ex and I both made good salaries and we would have been better off being single. Even the phase outs didn’t double for 2 versus 1. We got screwed big time. I’m single now but from what I’ve read, that penalty is now gone. Yea that wasn't my example at all so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me? Because you said in your first post how the rest of us don’t realize how much of the tax burden single people pick up for married people. I’m telling you that as a single person you don’t realize how much of the slack married people picked up for single people. You later came back with a “well, yeah but I’m talking about the other kind of married people”...
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 23, 2019 19:09:55 GMT -5
Yea that wasn't my example at all so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me? Because you said in your first post how the rest of us don’t realize how much of the tax burden single people pick up for married people. I’m telling you that as a single person you don’t realize how much of the slack married people picked up for single people. You later came back with a “well, yeah but I’m talking about the other kind of married people”... No, I came back reiterating what I said. The marriage penalty only came into play if you had two high earners married. Not saying it doesn't suck, but I would say the majority of marriages didn't have two high earners. If there was one high earner or just one earner they were better off married. If you can point me to something that says the majority of marriages have two high earners...
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Aug 24, 2019 0:47:42 GMT -5
If any of this is true, he will have committed political suicide. I can't imagine many people voting for him if he vows to cut SS or medicare. If he is contemplating that, as the article says, he is thinking second term if he wins...which means he says nothing about it this election cycle...so no publicity...if..[g-d forbid] he wins a second term, then has nothing to lose...especially if GOP keep Senate AND recovers the House....
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 24, 2019 6:39:51 GMT -5
If any of this is true, he will have committed political suicide. I can't imagine many people voting for him if he vows to cut SS or medicare. If he is contemplating that, as the article says, he is thinking second term if he wins...which means he says nothing about it this election cycle...so no publicity...if..[g-d forbid] he wins a second term, then has nothing to lose...especially if GOP keep Senate AND recovers the House.... Which is why I’m saying if it is true. This could also be something put out there to make sure he doesn’t win.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 26, 2019 12:40:51 GMT -5
If any of this is true, he will have committed political suicide. I can't imagine many people voting for him if he vows to cut SS or medicare. If he is contemplating that, as the article says, he is thinking second term if he wins...which means he says nothing about it this election cycle...so no publicity...if..[g-d forbid] he wins a second term, then has nothing to lose...especially if GOP keep Senate AND recovers the House.... Yep, he's going to try to pull a Scott Walker. In 2010, not a word about what ultimately became Act 10, which he signed shortly after taking office. Except 45 can't stop tweeting so he'll let the cat out of the bag, then backtrack a couple of times before either doing it or letting it drop and blaming someone else.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 26, 2019 12:47:22 GMT -5
If he is contemplating that, as the article says, he is thinking second term if he wins...which means he says nothing about it this election cycle...so no publicity...if..[g-d forbid] he wins a second term, then has nothing to lose...especially if GOP keep Senate AND recovers the House.... Which is why I’m saying if it is true. This could also be something put out there to make sure he doesn’t win. How can it not be true? If not Trump, the person that replaces him.
SS has been telling me for a decade to expect 70% of my full benefit. At the bottom of every statement. We know Medicare needs to be cut for someone, because it's in a bigger hurt than SS. Or are you saying that all the reports of insolvency without cuts/changes under every other president were lies...and that SS and medicare have no funding issues and will go on as intended beyond our natural life?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 26, 2019 12:48:51 GMT -5
If he is contemplating that, as the article says, he is thinking second term if he wins...which means he says nothing about it this election cycle...so no publicity...if..[g-d forbid] he wins a second term, then has nothing to lose...especially if GOP keep Senate AND recovers the House.... Yep, he's going to try to pull a Scott Walker. In 2010, not a word about what ultimately became Act 10, which he signed shortly after taking office. Except 45 can't stop tweeting so he'll let the cat out of the bag, then backtrack a couple of times before either doing it or letting it drop and blaming someone else. eh.
I think Walker was more predictable than what we gave him credit for. We were just all asleep at the wheel and not used to a new form of politics.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 26, 2019 13:20:03 GMT -5
there is absolutely no benefit to cutting SS. it is a "pay as you go system". if it has shortfalls, the beneficiaries will bear the brunt.
MC is another story.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 26, 2019 13:49:00 GMT -5
People kept electing Paul Ryan who made no secret about his dreams of killing off those programs. Wisconsin has had a problem with gerrymandering for years. Have you ever seen their map? You have to wonder if he would've gotten in, if the map had been drawn up properly. Wisconsin is very gerrymandered RN, and I have been voting D for years, but when the Auto Plant in Janesville went down, I felt that re-electing Paul Ryan would be beneficial to Janesville (That he would be better positioned to help Janesville than someone new), so I voted for him once. I also did not agree with his extreme position on Social Security, but I do think that Social Security should be cut sooner rather than later. I felt Paul Ryan could get the discussion started, and was hopeful that D's and R's could come to a solution that everyone could live with.
Personally I think SS cuts should begin now, when many people on SS have Pensions. The tail end of the Baby Boomers and into Gen X, fewer people will have a pension and SS to depend on. We talk about SS being underfunded all the time, but the plan seems to be to leave it for Millenials and after to deal with, and that to me, is just not fair to them.
I don't see myself voting R anytime soon, they now have too many policy positions I don't agree with. I don't 100% agree with the Dem's either - would love to see a new party somewhere between R and D.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 26, 2019 13:50:58 GMT -5
Wisconsin has had a problem with gerrymandering for years. Have you ever seen their map? You have to wonder if he would've gotten in, if the map had been drawn up properly. Wisconsin is very gerrymandered RN, and I have been voting D for years, but when the Auto Plant in Janesville went down, I felt that re-electing Paul Ryan would be beneficial to Janesville (That he would be better positioned to help Janesville than someone new), so I voted for him once. I also did not agree with his extreme position on Social Security, but I do think that Social Security should be cut sooner rather than later. I felt Paul Ryan could get the discussion started, and was hopeful that D's and R's could come to a solution that everyone could live with.
Personally I think SS cuts should begin now, when many people on SS have Pensions. The tail end of the Baby Boomers and into Gen X, fewer people will have a pension and SS to depend on. We talk about SS being underfunded all the time, but the plan seems to be to leave it for Millenials and after to deal with, and that to me, is just not fair to them.
I don't see myself voting R anytime soon, they now have too many policy positions I don't agree with. I don't 100% agree with the Dem's either - would love to see a new party somewhere between R and D.
why do you think SS should be cut, bean?
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 26, 2019 13:55:41 GMT -5
In my opinion, if Trump hadn't given those huge tax cuts to the 1%, there would be plenty of money for Social Security. But, unfortunately, we've got someone who's clueless at the helm right now. For the record, I know very few folks who have pensions, so Social Security is going to be increasingly important. Not to mention Medicare. We've all paid into these programs, and deserve to get something in return.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Aug 26, 2019 14:16:38 GMT -5
He will wait and if elected he will cut SS and medicare. It will hurt us bad, it will kill so many old folks. They no longer have pensions and so many were hardly able to live while working. You do that, homelessness will be rampant. So we gave the filthy rich more and the majority of the people suffer, that sounds like a humane plan. I can see rebellion at some point if they decide to take all assistance away from people they don't want to have full time jobs or pay them enough to live on. Sounds like a plan.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 26, 2019 14:37:16 GMT -5
In my opinion, if Trump hadn't given those huge tax cuts to the 1%, there would be plenty of money for Social Security. But, unfortunately, we've got someone who's clueless at the helm right now. For the record, I know very few folks who have pensions, so Social Security is going to be increasingly important. Not to mention Medicare. We've all paid into these programs, and deserve to get something in return. The SS funding issues have been around for a long time. Why would SS have been telling me to expect 70% of my benefit for the last decade or so if it was a 100% fully funded program like my pension?
Technically, SS is telling me that I should still get something. The question becomes is that "something" palatable?
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 26, 2019 14:55:27 GMT -5
DH actually has a coworker who "lost" his pension. You know, like the folks you read about on the news that work their entire lives, and the company goes belly up. Those at the top get "their" money, but have left the pension holders with nothing. I wouldn't bet my life's savings on any pension, at this point. Their is no honor in corporations anymore, of them actually giving their employees what was promised. Which, leaves Social Security.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 26, 2019 15:13:28 GMT -5
DH actually has a coworker who "lost" his pension. You know, like the folks you read about on the news that work their entire lives, and the company goes belly up. Those at the top get "their" money, but have left the pension holders with nothing. I wouldn't bet my life's savings on any pension, at this point. Their is no honor in corporations anymore, of them actually giving their employees what was promised. Which, leaves Social Security. In 2010 the laws were changed to allow pension funds/companies to reduce or even completely eliminate pension rights already earned. Even for those people who are already retired. I believe federal pensions to be the exception to that ruling.
For some intersting first person reading look here: www.nextavenue.org/retirees-teamsters-save-pensions/
Or if you want to read the more generalized (which is wider applicable) just google how safe are pensions and watch what comes up...
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 26, 2019 15:43:41 GMT -5
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 26, 2019 17:08:00 GMT -5
If any of this is true, he will have committed political suicide. I can't imagine many people voting for him if he vows to cut SS or medicare. He'll do with without vowing to. He'll blame external factors and his base, being too stupid/ignorant to find out the truth will continue to support him. TRUMP HAS TOLD FRIENDS THAT GUTTING MEDICARE COULD BE A FUN “SECOND-TERM PROJECT” www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/donald-trump-republicans-federal-deficit
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Aug 26, 2019 19:31:38 GMT -5
I've read some people with union pensions are getting cuts. One lady whose husband had a $3800 a month pension. A few years ago it was cut in half. They said not enough people are working union now to sustain the funds.
I noticed on the annual report for MIL's that it showed more was paid out then went into the health and welfare fund. That's what she gets her insurance through. If she had to go on Medicaid then VA will not pay her pension, she has to keep private insurance, its a balancing act. Hoping the funds keep up while she is alive. She is 92 with the real likelihood of her living to 100. That means we would have to pay insurance for her out of our pocket to keep her VA if we could even find any and to be able to keep her there. Dear god, imagine me in my 70's having to bring her here and me taking care of her, DD, and myself. Now there is a nightmare I don't want to think about. That would be enough to make me end it I think.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 26, 2019 19:37:54 GMT -5
If any of this is true, he will have committed political suicide. I can't imagine many people voting for him if he vows to cut SS or medicare. He'll do with without vowing to. He'll blame external factors and his base, being too stupid/ignorant to find out the truth will continue to support him. TRUMP HAS TOLD FRIENDS THAT GUTTING MEDICARE COULD BE A FUN “SECOND-TERM PROJECT” www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/donald-trump-republicans-federal-deficit I wish I could say I am surprised by this, but I am not. This is a man who actually enjoys inflicting pain. He has no right to torment anyone, whether it be Americans, or immigrants.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 26, 2019 20:20:57 GMT -5
He will wait and if elected he will cut SS and medicare. It will hurt us bad, it will kill so many old folks. They no longer have pensions and so many were hardly able to live while working. You do that, homelessness will be rampant. So we gave the filthy rich more and the majority of the people suffer, that sounds like a humane plan. I can see rebellion at some point if they decide to take all assistance away from people they don't want to have full time jobs or pay them enough to live on. Sounds like a plan. Countrygirl, did you sit aside retirement money,, 401K. Roth?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 26, 2019 20:25:48 GMT -5
DH actually has a coworker who "lost" his pension. You know, like the folks you read about on the news that work their entire lives, and the company goes belly up. Those at the top get "their" money, but have left the pension holders with nothing. I wouldn't bet my life's savings on any pension, at this point. Their is no honor in corporations anymore, of them actually giving their employees what was promised. Which, leaves Social Security. Conservative values,, watching out for yourself.
What is the name of this board,, Your money and more, There have been thousands of lessons from the people that post to this board,,
Not paying attention??
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Aug 27, 2019 8:00:57 GMT -5
Yes, we have money in 401k's but its not enough. We need SS, rental income, and RMD to live comfortably.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 27, 2019 8:06:46 GMT -5
“Conservative values,, watching out for yourself.”
Also conservative values, “Fuck everyone else, especially the poorest, sickest, neediest”
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 27, 2019 9:29:22 GMT -5
Wisconsin is very gerrymandered RN, and I have been voting D for years, but when the Auto Plant in Janesville went down, I felt that re-electing Paul Ryan would be beneficial to Janesville (That he would be better positioned to help Janesville than someone new), so I voted for him once. I also did not agree with his extreme position on Social Security, but I do think that Social Security should be cut sooner rather than later. I felt Paul Ryan could get the discussion started, and was hopeful that D's and R's could come to a solution that everyone could live with.
Personally I think SS cuts should begin now, when many people on SS have Pensions. The tail end of the Baby Boomers and into Gen X, fewer people will have a pension and SS to depend on. We talk about SS being underfunded all the time, but the plan seems to be to leave it for Millenials and after to deal with, and that to me, is just not fair to them.
I don't see myself voting R anytime soon, they now have too many policy positions I don't agree with. I don't 100% agree with the Dem's either - would love to see a new party somewhere between R and D.
why do you think SS should be cut, bean? There seems to be no question that it is underfunded, so they should cut benefits back say 5% now, rather that pushing it off into the future, so that more drastic cuts have to be made on our children. Our children can not pay for everything - Trillion $$ deficit, underfunded SS/Medicare etc, etc. I think that current beneficiaries should share in the pain of fixing the system.
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