Trump may begin cutting SS/Medicare

[bean29]

Aug 26, 2019 14:55:27 GMT -5 busymom said:

DH actually has a coworker who "lost" his pension.  You know, like the folks you read about on the news that work their entire lives, and the company goes belly up.  Those at the top get "their" money, but have left the pension holders with nothing.  I wouldn't bet my life's savings on any pension, at this point.  Their is no honor in corporations anymore, of them actually giving their employees what was promised.  Which, leaves Social Security.  

When Delphi went belly up, it was the salaried workers that lost their pension.  Dephi was at one point a subsidiary of GM.  When it separated from GM, the hourly union workers negotiated a guarantee in their pension where if Delphi went belly up, their pensions were guaranteed by GM (so I think they ended up being added back to GM's pension).  So, in this case, the Hourly workers were in a better position than Management.

[busymom]

Unfortunately, with the people I've met personally, the best way for a "conservative" to turn into a "liberal" is to have some sort of tragedy that affects them personally.  Whether it's being hit by a drunk driver, getting a stroke, or something awful where suddenly, they realize that they really can't "do it all".  When you lose the ability to make money for yourself, or even to do the everyday basics, feeding yourself, brushing your teeth, walking, etc., then, all of a sudden they figure out what social services are for.  It's just too bad they don't realize what a wonderful thing it is to get some help, without begging on the street, and that our system should help those who cannot help themselves.

[countrygirl2]

I believe the government will pay something where folks lose their pensions, but nothing like they would have received.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2019 9:29:22 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Aug 26, 2019 13:50:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

why do you think SS should be cut, bean?

There seems to be no question that it is underfunded, so they should cut benefits back say 5% now, rather that pushing it off into the future, so that more drastic cuts have to be made on our children.  Our children can not pay for everything - Trillion $$ deficit, underfunded SS/Medicare etc, etc.  I think that current beneficiaries should share in the pain of fixing the system. 

why not just raise the SS tax? that is how it has always been done in the past.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Aug 27, 2019 10:11:21 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

I believe the government will pay something where folks lose their pensions, but nothing like they would have received.

There is a gov't program that takes over pensions.  I can't think of the name of it but it's severely underfunded so yeah, people are getting a lot less than they were promised. 

[tallguy]

Aug 27, 2019 10:47:43 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Aug 27, 2019 10:11:21 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

I believe the government will pay something where folks lose their pensions, but nothing like they would have received.

There is a gov't program that takes over pensions.  I can't think of the name of it but it's severely underfunded so yeah, people are getting a lot less than they were promised. 

PBGC?

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation

[Wisconsin Beth]

Aug 27, 2019 10:54:23 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Aug 27, 2019 10:47:43 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

There is a gov't program that takes over pensions.  I can't think of the name of it but it's severely underfunded so yeah, people are getting a lot less than they were promised. 

PBGC?

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation

That's the one.  And they've been underfunded for a good 20 years now. 

[Tennesseer]

Aug 27, 2019 10:59:07 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Aug 27, 2019 10:54:23 GMT -5 tallguy said:

PBGC?

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation

That's the one.  And they've been underfunded for a good 20 years now. 

My employer continues to fund the PBGC with a couple billion dollars each year.

The company stopped offering defined pension plans around 2000. All active and new hire employees were then moved to a portable pension plan. Those active at the time of the switch will get the defined pension and portable pension upon retirement. Should they leave the company before they retire, they take their portable pension plan with them.

The portable pension plan released pressure on the defined pension plan and future payouts.

[dondub]

Aug 27, 2019 10:24:09 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 27, 2019 9:29:22 GMT -5 bean29 said:

There seems to be no question that it is underfunded, so they should cut benefits back say 5% now, rather that pushing it off into the future, so that more drastic cuts have to be made on our children.  Our children can not pay for everything - Trillion $$ deficit, underfunded SS/Medicare etc, etc.  I think that current beneficiaries should share in the pain of fixing the system. 

why not just raise the SS tax? that is how it has always been done in the past.

  That's how Reagan did it, at that time the largest tax increase ever. But not much noise made about it as it didn't so much affect his constituency as it was on the backs of the middle class and

working poor. The rich had already skated on his huge tax cuts that blew up the deficit the first time. No one is laffering about it anymore are they. Instead they just ignore it..

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Aug 27, 2019 11:19:42 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 27, 2019 10:59:07 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

That's the one.  And they've been underfunded for a good 20 years now. 

My employer continues to fund the PBGC with a couple billion dollars each year.

The company stopped offering defined pension plans around 2000. All active and new hire employees were then moved to a portable pension plan. Those active at the time of the switch will get the defined pension and portable pension upon retirement. Should they leave the company before they retire, they take their portable pension plan with them.

The portable pension plan released pressure on the defined pension plan and future payouts.

I worked for Bethlehem Steel for 9 years and was vested in their salaried retirement fund. They went bankrupt a few years after I left. I do get a small pension from the PBGC that started at age 62. 

[NastyWoman]

Aug 27, 2019 12:24:18 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Aug 27, 2019 11:19:42 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

My employer continues to fund the PBGC with a couple billion dollars each year.

The company stopped offering defined pension plans around 2000. All active and new hire employees were then moved to a portable pension plan. Those active at the time of the switch will get the defined pension and portable pension upon retirement. Should they leave the company before they retire, they take their portable pension plan with them.

The portable pension plan released pressure on the defined pension plan and future payouts.

I worked for Bethlehem Steel for 9 years and was vested in their salaried retirement fund. They went bankrupt a few years after I left. I do get a small pension from the PBGC that started at age 62. 

And then there is this for even those (greatly) reduced pensions:

"PBGC: Over 90% Chance Union Pension Insurance Program Will Run Out Of Money By 2025..."

www.forbes.com/sites/tedknutson/2018/05/31/pbgc-over-90-chance-union-pension-guarantee-program-will-run-out-of-money-by-2025/#438bb0ab525f

[Gardening Grandma]

Aug 27, 2019 9:29:22 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Aug 26, 2019 13:50:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

why do you think SS should be cut, bean?

There seems to be no question that it is underfunded, so they should cut benefits back say 5% now, rather that pushing it off into the future, so that more drastic cuts have to be made on our children.  Our children can not pay for everything - Trillion $$ deficit, underfunded SS/Medicare etc, etc.  I think that current beneficiaries should share in the pain of fixing the system. 

If current beneficaries were asked to take a cut of say, 5%, I'd go along as long as the cap were lifted so that the very high earners paid more.  Share the pain.

In fact, lifting the cap would go a long ways to shore up SS.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Look- we can end Social Security and Medicare with honor and integrity by facing the truth and dealing with it- or we can do what both parties seem apt to do and just let it collapse. What would you prefer?

[Gardening Grandma]

Neither.   We continue to fund both because we aren't selfish pricks.  

Oh yeah, we roll back the tax cuts passed earlier.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2019 15:52:59 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Neither.   We continue to fund both because we aren't selfish pricks.  

Oh yeah, we roll back the tax cuts passed earlier.

actually, we could raise the cap on SS payments. that would fix it too.

[happyhoix]

Aug 27, 2019 15:43:18 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Look- we can end Social Security and Medicare with honor and integrity by facing the truth and dealing with it- or we can do what both parties seem apt to do and just let it collapse. What would you prefer?

How is that? Line up the olds and shoot them so they stop being so needy about food and drugs?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2019 16:06:26 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 27, 2019 15:43:18 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Look- we can end Social Security and Medicare with honor and integrity by facing the truth and dealing with it- or we can do what both parties seem apt to do and just let it collapse. What would you prefer?

How is that? Line up the olds and shoot them so they stop being so needy about food and drugs?

the truth is that SS is BY DESIGN incapable of running deficits.

it is pointless to cut it.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 27, 2019 15:52:59 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Neither.   We continue to fund both because we aren't selfish pricks.  

Oh yeah, we roll back the tax cuts passed earlier.

Selfish pricks are those demanding money I'm contributing to the program and in exchange I get a stack of I.O.U.'s and eventually, the whole Ponzi scheme collapses. When is the best time to put a stop to a Ponzi scheme? Fifty years ago. The next best time? Right now. Admit you got played. Take a bite out of that shit sandwich you helped make- and leave me the fuck out of it.

[dondub]

There are many on the right that can’t abide SS. We were just visited by one. That’s why I started taking it at 62 and used the funds to bankroll an ADU in part of our basement that brings in $1295/MO.

And to think those wealthy pricks that are against SS all got huge tax cuts...3 times by my reckoning.

[dondub]

I’ve cashed 61 of those iou checks so far and created an additional life long income stream with it. Keep ‘em comin’ Sam. No shit sandwich for me.

[busymom]

It's NOT a sh#t sandwich.  It's a lifeline that people have been paying into.  And, they should get something back.  It's NOT an "entitlement".

[countrygirl2]

All they need to do is expand the amount of income they tax and it will cover SS's needs.

[tbop77]

Aug 27, 2019 15:43:18 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Look- we can end Social Security and Medicare with honor and integrity by facing the truth and dealing with it- or we can do what both parties seem apt to do and just let it collapse. What would you prefer?

Nah, it'll be fine.  The next DEM president will declare a national emergency and move $ from the military to pay for it...after all, that is perfectly ok with conservatives....we won't need all that big military budget anyway, NK will be denuked, Iran will be whipped into shape, and the negotiating President Trump is doing with Russia,,,,,they'll just bend over!  

[OldCoyote]

Republicans on Capitol Hill say Donald Trump may be willing to cut Social Security and Medicare if he wins in 2020, reportedly describing the potential move as a “second-term project”.

Several senators told the New York Times in a report published this week they spoke to the president about reducing the costs of the federal health care and retirement programs — a move that would likely stir controversy in a presidential election season.

Republicans have said cutting both programs is crucial to reducing the nation’s deficit, which has ballooned under Mr Trump thanks, in part, to the GOP tax bill passed in 2017.

Senator John Barrasso, a Republican from Wyoming, described the process of cutting the costs of social security and medicare to the New York Times as “best done during divided government”.

Where does this any where have Trump saying anything??

Annnd written by a biased opinion poster!!

You people and your imaginations,,

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

TRUMP HAS TOLD FRIENDS THAT GUTTING MEDICARE COULD BE A FUN “SECOND-TERM PROJECT”

[OldCoyote]

Aug 28, 2019 9:11:19 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

TRUMP HAS TOLD FRIENDS THAT GUTTING MEDICARE COULD BE A FUN “SECOND-TERM PROJECT”

Where did Trump tell friends?? 

Bess Levin, check out her articles,, falling over the LEFT EDGE opinion poster, not even a real writer!

[Tennesseer]

Aug 28, 2019 9:27:30 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Aug 28, 2019 9:11:19 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

TRUMP HAS TOLD FRIENDS THAT GUTTING MEDICARE COULD BE A FUN “SECOND-TERM PROJECT”

Where did Trump tell friends?? 

Bess Levin, check out her articles,, falling over the LEFT EDGE opinion poster, not even a real writer!

How about the below from the link in the opening post. While it't not trump's own words, Republican senators are telling him to do it:

Several senators told the New York Times in a report published this week they spoke to the president about reducing the costs of the federal health care and retirement programs — a move that would likely stir controversy in a presidential election season.

Republicans have said cutting both programs is crucial to reducing the nation’s deficit, which has ballooned under Mr Trump thanks, in part, to the GOP tax bill passed in 2017.

Senator John Barrasso, a Republican from Wyoming, described the process of cutting the costs of social security and medicare to the New York Times as “best done during divided government”.

“We’ve brought it up with President Trump,” he added, “who has talked about out it being a second-term project.”

Senator John Thune, a Republican from South Dakota, also told the newspaper that reducing the costs of the federal programs would require “presidential leadership” and “courage by the Congress to make some hard votes”.

“We can’t keep kicking the can down the road,” he said, adding: “I hope in a second term, [Mr Trump] is interested. With his leadership, I think we could start dealing with that crisis. And it is a crisis.”

[Tiny]

Aug 26, 2019 13:55:41 GMT -5 busymom said:

In my opinion, if Trump hadn't given those huge tax cuts to the 1%, there would be plenty of money for Social Security.  But, unfortunately, we've got someone who's clueless at the helm right now.  For the record, I know very few folks who have pensions, so Social Security is going to be increasingly important.  Not to mention Medicare.  We've all paid into these programs, and deserve to get something in return. 

I don't think the tax cuts  effected how much SS collects from wages.    The wage base for collecting SS taxes is already low. 


Social Security Wage Base for 2019 Announced. On October 11, 2018, the Social Security Administration (SSA) announced that the 2019 Social Security wage base will be $132,900, which is an increase of $4,500 from $128,400 in 2018. 

I suspect a lot of individuals have an income over $132,900 - which means the earnings over that being NOT taxed for SS.  

One thing the government could do is raise the wage base for SS (versus raise the % of the tax).    I think that would be a fair thing to do.  

[Tiny]

Yes.  The better healthcare that Trump/GOP promised - is little or no healthcare.   That's totally better than what we have today.    MAGA!!!! 

[giramomma]

Aug 28, 2019 10:28:09 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Social Security Wage Base for 2019 Announced. On October 11, 2018, the Social Security Administration (SSA) announced that the 2019 Social Security wage base will be $132,900, which is an increase of $4,500 from $128,400 in 2018. 

I suspect a lot of individuals have an income over $132,900 - which means the earnings over that being NOT taxed for SS.  

Define " a lot"

I don't know how accurate this link is: dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

But it says in 2018, 13% of the working population made more than 100K.  Making 150K puts you in the top 5% of workers.

When I hear the word "a lot" I do not think 13% is it. Sure, that translates in to millions of people. But, as a percentage of workers, I don't buy that it is a lot.

The article says the median income for an individual worker is hovering around 40K. As a whole, we're not as rich of a nation as some folks think we are..