ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 2, 2019 20:20:46 GMT -5
The difference i have a problem with is everyone's health, education, is not the responsibility for everyone else. It's just wrong Then the state of California owes me a buttload of taxes I've paid all these years that go towards the local schools. I mean, I have no kids, so I shouldn't have had to pay, right? although not totally out of the realm...i was referring to higher education that is my bad for not putting it in. I also wondered about the elderly who have trouble getting by with higher taxes that support their local school system.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 2, 2019 20:25:00 GMT -5
Most of what you listed we already have i'm not saying getting rid of those service.s (although I drink raw milk not inspectors on that shit). No one should pay for my kids education or my wifes etc... I did mention though i will be the first hypocrite to admit if a bill comes out to forgive student loan i will use it since i'm going to be taxed for it. I hope it doesn't ever get passed i will pay what i owe. As far as handicap people the ones who cannot work should get assistance. i don't want to see anyone starve to death or treated like shit. But enough is enough you want an education pay for it. You want health care and are an able body person to work pay for it. You don't eat food from the grocery stores, because you grow your own, and hunt? You burn your trash? You have a well for your own water? pretty close....garden, buy meat from local farmers, burn, and i have 2 wells....on another note yes we buy groceries and eat out etc....
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 2, 2019 20:30:34 GMT -5
Then the state of California owes me a buttload of taxes I've paid all these years that go towards the local schools. I mean, I have no kids, so I shouldn't have had to pay, right? although not totally out of the realm...i was referring to higher education that is my bad for not putting it in. I also wondered about the elderly who have trouble getting by with higher taxes that support their local school system. This elderly person pays higher taxes to support the local school system. Since my kids and grandkids benefitted from good public schools, I don’t mind. But then, I’m not a self centered prick
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 2, 2019 20:30:51 GMT -5
Most of what you listed we already have i'm not saying getting rid of those service.s (although I drink raw milk not inspectors on that shit). No one should pay for my kids education or my wifes etc... I did mention though i will be the first hypocrite to admit if a bill comes out to forgive student loan i will use it since i'm going to be taxed for it. I hope it doesn't ever get passed i will pay what i owe. As far as handicap people the ones who cannot work should get assistance. i don't want to see anyone starve to death or treated like shit. But enough is enough you want an education pay for it. You want health care and are an able body person to work pay for it. if we are not going to have sufficient education in the US so that people know right from wrong, and can reason their way through an election, then we should END our experiment with elected government. because it requires an informed electorate. agreed, but you sure as hell don't need higher education for that. The problem with primary thru high school is they don't teach any more. its just reading from a text book once in a while you will get a teacher that actually give a damn. i know there are a few in academia here on the board i'm not knocking the profession just like in all professions there is the good and bad and the last 20 years i think the education system has been going downhill.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 2, 2019 21:37:11 GMT -5
You don't eat food from the grocery stores, because you grow your own, and hunt? You burn your trash? You have a well for your own water? pretty close....garden, buy meat from local farmers, burn, and i have 2 wells....on another note yes we buy groceries and eat out etc.... So, you don't mind paying taxes to ensure that your food is safe to consume.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 3, 2019 1:08:26 GMT -5
The problem is why should everyone have to pay the higher tax if they don't have the above services. Childless couples or elderly kids grown up, people who don't want a university education etc. So no not everyone pays more. That is the whole point These things benefit the entire community, and the entire country. Oh, but you're a conservative. It's all about "me, me me!" Or they just don't want to pay for poorly designed programs that do more harm than good. In the 1960's, Democrats created a welfare system that paid low income women more money than they could get from working for having children they weren't ready for with men who weren't going to stick around. This had a devastating effect on the culture and economic mobility. I saw it in my own family. 2 generations of my cousins, who are as white as I am, were flushed down the toilet because they were raised in unstable households in an effed up culture where they were taught to be self destructive idiots. Instead of enacting some sensible welfare reform in the 1980's, when it was obvious that the current system wasn't working, liberals doubled down and accused anyone who didn't agree with the status quo of being racist and sexist. It wasn't until welfare was pretty much ended in the 1990's that my cousins started pulling their heads out of their asses and do the things that normal people do--get a job, work your way up the food chain, get married, buy a house. And here you are, accusing anyone who doesn't want to repeat that mistake of being a greedy bastard. This is not how you get things done. This is why we can't have nice things. Nobody wants to work with someone who will accuse them of being evil if they have a difference of opinion on how to achieve the same goal. I think our government could and should do more to support families and increase economic mobility. But it won't happen while there are people like you in it.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Aug 3, 2019 1:32:31 GMT -5
Your cousins should have accepted some personal responsibility and followed ednkris to 100 hour a week employment and personal vindication.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 3, 2019 8:30:49 GMT -5
We don't have to do Bernie's plan. If there is a way to let anyone/everyone buy into Medicare, it will take 10 years (tops) for corporations to stop offering private insurance and the entire industry will change. Maybe we will still have private insurance, but it will be more like the supplement plans that Medicare has now - which are open market. Corporations would LOVE to get out of the healthcare game. Especially for lowly workers who are expendable.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 3, 2019 8:31:50 GMT -5
Let's go like Norway, free health, free education, short work hours, you will pay a little more in taxes. only about $100,000 per household.
Want a car? The taxes on that car can run 100% over the cost of the car. That free college, They determine if you get the degree you want, ever wonder why you have so many foreign student here, where it cost for an education. Innovation? what is the last innovative product that you have seen come out of Norway??
innovation: sciencenordic.com/norway-more-innovative-previously-suggested
educational choice in Norway: what are you talking about? I have never heard that before.
car taxes: it is true that car taxes are high. they are also proportional to vehicle weight. this is to reduce the cost of road repairs and increase fuel efficiency, and lower pollution. so, yes, if you have a monster truck, you will pay 100%. if you own a nice little two seater, significantly less.
effective tax rates in Norway are about 50%. in the US it is about 30%, then we pay 20% for our healthcare. because....FREEDOM (to enrich corporations)
What do they pay their Dr.?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 3, 2019 10:20:47 GMT -5
pretty close....garden, buy meat from local farmers, burn, and i have 2 wells....on another note yes we buy groceries and eat out etc.... So, you don't mind paying taxes to ensure that your food is safe to consume. of course not. As long as those agencies are not loaded down with useless regulations.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 3, 2019 10:25:49 GMT -5
although not totally out of the realm...i was referring to higher education that is my bad for not putting it in. I also wondered about the elderly who have trouble getting by with higher taxes that support their local school system. This elderly person pays higher taxes to support the local school system. Since my kids and grandkids benefitted from good public schools, I don’t mind. But then, I’m not a self centered prick so that is what i am a self centered prick . like I said the problem I have is with this notion of free higher education. ' It's great that you can afford the taxes for the school system, I don't mind paying mine either. Do you know any retirees that have trouble affording them? Oh wait why should i care i'm the self centered prick. The people who usually name call are the same ones always looking down their nose.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 3, 2019 10:29:13 GMT -5
Yeah, handicapped people should just beg on the streets like they do in 3rd world countries. Orphans and the mentally ill should just be sent to poorhouses. No one should have to pay for the inspectors who make sure the milk YOUR kids drink is safe or the hamburgers they eat at McD’s has been properly cooked.. No one should have to pay for the schools and universities YOUR kids attend. (Ignoring the fact that everyone benefits from an educated workforce) No one should have to pay for the roads YOU drive on..... And, of course, you never use the public library... Most of what you listed we already have i'm not saying getting rid of those service.s (although I drink raw milk not inspectors on that shit). No one should pay for my kids education or my wifes etc... I did mention though i will be the first hypocrite to admit if a bill comes out to forgive student loan i will use it since i'm going to be taxed for it. I hope it doesn't ever get passed i will pay what i owe. As far as handicap people the ones who cannot work should get assistance . i don't want to see anyone starve to death or treated like shit. But enough is enough you want an education pay for it. You want health care and are an able body person to work pay for it. If that were true, then you would not support an administration that is cutting a half a million people (including elderly, handicapped, and children) from food assistance. Its pretty clear you don’t give a rip
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 3, 2019 10:30:38 GMT -5
This elderly person pays higher taxes to support the local school system. Since my kids and grandkids benefitted from good public schools, I don’t mind. But then, I’m not a self centered prick so that is what i am a self centered prick . like I said the problem I have is with this notion of free higher education. ' It's great that you can afford the taxes for the school system, I don't mind paying mine either. Do you know any retirees that have trouble affording them? Oh wait why should i care i'm the self centered prick. The people who usually name call are the same ones always looking down their nose. Yes. A neighbor on a low fixed income. She qualifies for a program that freezes her property taxes. I’m fine with that.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 3, 2019 12:17:59 GMT -5
These things benefit the entire community, and the entire country. Oh, but you're a conservative. It's all about "me, me me!" Or they just don't want to pay for poorly designed programs that do more harm than good. In the 1960's, Democrats created a welfare system that paid low income women more money than they could get from working for having children they weren't ready for with men who weren't going to stick around. This had a devastating effect on the culture and economic mobility. I saw it in my own family. 2 generations of my cousins, who are as white as I am, were flushed down the toilet because they were raised in unstable households in an effed up culture where they were taught to be self destructive idiots. Instead of enacting some sensible welfare reform in the 1980's, when it was obvious that the current system wasn't working, liberals doubled down and accused anyone who didn't agree with the status quo of being racist and sexist. It wasn't until welfare was pretty much ended in the 1990's that my cousins started pulling their heads out of their asses and do the things that normal people do--get a job, work your way up the food chain, get married, buy a house. And here you are, accusing anyone who doesn't want to repeat that mistake of being a greedy bastard. This is not how you get things done. This is why we can't have nice things. Nobody wants to work with someone who will accuse them of being evil if they have a difference of opinion on how to achieve the same goal.
I think our government could and should do more to support families and increase economic mobility. But it won't happen while there are people like you in it. Cute. Funny how you didn't say anything to OC when he said he wants to piss on the graves of liberals. However, if I say something, you get your feelings hurt and pen a nasty screed. How are people supposed to work together when you have the other side wanting to piss on our graves? Your hypocrisy is astounding, but not surprising. In any case, the programs I'm in favour of KEEPS PEOPLE OFF WELFARE. If your medical bills are covered by single-payer, you don't go bankrupt and end up on welfare. If a woman's job is guaranteed after childbirth, she stays off welfare. If there's subsidized child-care, a woman can go back to work and stays off welfare. What's the point of working if child-care sucks up more than you make? The USA has more people on welfare per capita than any other country in the world. In any case, what do you mean "when welfare ended in the 90s?" Welfare didn't end.
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dondub
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The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
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Post by dondub on Aug 3, 2019 12:35:54 GMT -5
So, you don't mind paying taxes to ensure that your food is safe to consume. of course not. As long as those agencies are not loaded down with useless regulations. Would you please share with us 3 “useless regulations” and why they are useless, instead of just buzzwording ‘regulation’ as if they are all useless. I keep thinking that regulations come from the will of We The People , through our elected representatives, and then into regulatory reform as mandated therein. Please share.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 3, 2019 12:39:11 GMT -5
So, you don't mind paying taxes to ensure that your food is safe to consume. of course not. As long as those agencies are not loaded down with useless regulations. But why should you pay to keep other peoples' food safe? You should hire personal food inspectors that will test everything before you put it in your mouth. If those poor people can't afford personal food inspectors, too bad for them!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 3, 2019 14:30:52 GMT -5
Your cousins should have accepted some personal responsibility and followed ednkris to 100 hour a week employment and personal vindication. Yes, they could have been more responsible. But the way the welfare system was structured, being an irresponsible idiot made economic sense, at least in the short term. And people who have unstable childhoods generally don't think long term. That was the big flaw in the welfare system--assuming that people would do things that hurt them economically in the short term in order to secure long term rewards. Only one of my grandparents had a normal, stable childhood. But since they grew up in a culture where the behaviors that lead to prosperity were considered normal and admirable, and the behaviors that lead to poverty were looked down upon, they did the right things. The taboos against refusing to work and having children outside of marriage didn't exist because everyone was deeply religious. These taboos existed because doing those things was an economic disaster. Once the welfare system started taking away the natural consequences of not working and having children you aren't ready for, the culture changed immediately. Suddenly, blowing off school and work and having kids in your teens with the deadbeat down the block was considered normal, while working hard and waiting to have kids was considered weird. Anybody who had 'those' relatives had a front row seat to this self inflicted trainwreck. And for 40 years, they were told that the only reason for having an issue with it was racism and greed.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 3, 2019 15:09:24 GMT -5
Or they just don't want to pay for poorly designed programs that do more harm than good. In the 1960's, Democrats created a welfare system that paid low income women more money than they could get from working for having children they weren't ready for with men who weren't going to stick around. This had a devastating effect on the culture and economic mobility. I saw it in my own family. 2 generations of my cousins, who are as white as I am, were flushed down the toilet because they were raised in unstable households in an effed up culture where they were taught to be self destructive idiots. Instead of enacting some sensible welfare reform in the 1980's, when it was obvious that the current system wasn't working, liberals doubled down and accused anyone who didn't agree with the status quo of being racist and sexist. It wasn't until welfare was pretty much ended in the 1990's that my cousins started pulling their heads out of their asses and do the things that normal people do--get a job, work your way up the food chain, get married, buy a house. And here you are, accusing anyone who doesn't want to repeat that mistake of being a greedy bastard. This is not how you get things done. This is why we can't have nice things. Nobody wants to work with someone who will accuse them of being evil if they have a difference of opinion on how to achieve the same goal.
I think our government could and should do more to support families and increase economic mobility. But it won't happen while there are people like you in it. Cute. Funny how you didn't say anything to OC when he said he wants to piss on the graves of liberals. However, if I say something, you get your feelings hurt and pen a nasty screed. How are people supposed to work together when you have the other side wanting to piss on our graves? Your hypocrisy is astounding, but not surprising. In any case, the programs I'm in favour of KEEPS PEOPLE OFF WELFARE. If your medical bills are covered by single-payer, you don't go bankrupt and end up on welfare. If a woman's job is guaranteed after childbirth, she stays off welfare. If there's subsidized child-care, a woman can go back to work and stays off welfare. What's the point of working if child-care sucks up more than you make? The USA has more people on welfare per capita than any other country in the world. In any case, what do you mean "when welfare ended in the 90s?" Welfare didn't end. Yes, you're right, welfare didn't end in the 1990's, it was just pared down, brutally. Try spending 40 years being told that disagreeing with obviously failed policies makes you a Nazi, and let's see how willing you are to work with the other side. The fractured, partisan environment we have now didn't start in 1994. It started much earlier. For example, a lot of the former Democrats that pulled the lever for Reagan in 1980 were bleeding heart liberals who saw that their side seemed hell bent on creating a permanent underclass. But all we heard from Democrats is that anyone who switched was motivated by racism. And you're right, conservatives don't want to tackle poverty, don't want to work with the other side, and are being downright petty. But if you're going to be crucified for suggesting anything that doesn't agree with the liberal orthodoxy, then why bother? It's a sad situation. No matter how you slice it, 30 years of abject failure is going to color some people's views of what government can do. I just hope that in some point in the future, we can start electing politicians who have the courage to try big things again and the humility to work with the other side and correct any mistakes that are made.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Aug 3, 2019 16:07:00 GMT -5
so that is what i am a self centered prick . like I said the problem I have is with this notion of free higher education. ' It's great that you can afford the taxes for the school system, I don't mind paying mine either. Do you know any retirees that have trouble affording them? Oh wait why should i care i'm the self centered prick. The people who usually name call are the same ones always looking down their nose. Yes. A neighbor on a low fixed income. She qualifies for a program that freezes her property taxes. I’m fine with that. My state has a similar program, if your household income is below $60,000 there is a tax credit that limits the amount of your property tax. We have never qualified for it, but I am glad it is there for the people that qualify.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 3, 2019 21:07:11 GMT -5
Most of what you listed we already have i'm not saying getting rid of those service.s (although I drink raw milk not inspectors on that shit). No one should pay for my kids education or my wifes etc... I did mention though i will be the first hypocrite to admit if a bill comes out to forgive student loan i will use it since i'm going to be taxed for it. I hope it doesn't ever get passed i will pay what i owe. As far as handicap people the ones who cannot work should get assistance . i don't want to see anyone starve to death or treated like shit. But enough is enough you want an education pay for it. You want health care and are an able body person to work pay for it. If that were true, then you would not support an administration that is cutting a half a million people (including elderly, handicapped, and children) from food assistance. Its pretty clear you don’t give a rip what are the requirements to why those half million getting cut from assistance? There are clearly more than that on assistance why the half million? If your going to put it out there at least give the whole story. I know it just sounds good to say something against this administration. I'm not saying it is being done but the requirements must be changing
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 3, 2019 21:24:55 GMT -5
of course not. As long as those agencies are not loaded down with useless regulations. Would you please share with us 3 “useless regulations” and why they are useless, instead of just buzzwording ‘regulation’ as if they are all useless. I keep thinking that regulations come from the will of We The People , through our elected representatives, and then into regulatory reform as mandated therein. Please share. and maybe the will of other people they needed to go....how many did trump cut so far wasn't the mantra 1 in 2 out. If they were put in there by the last administration they probably should go. That administration didn't do much right
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 3, 2019 21:25:19 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 3, 2019 22:04:18 GMT -5
Most of what you listed we already have i'm not saying getting rid of those service.s (although I drink raw milk not inspectors on that shit). No one should pay for my kids education or my wifes etc... I did mention though i will be the first hypocrite to admit if a bill comes out to forgive student loan i will use it since i'm going to be taxed for it. I hope it doesn't ever get passed i will pay what i owe. As far as handicap people the ones who cannot work should get assistance . i don't want to see anyone starve to death or treated like shit. But enough is enough you want an education pay for it. You want health care and are an able body person to work pay for it. If that were true, then you would not support an administration that is cutting a half a million people (including elderly, handicapped, and children) from food assistance. Its pretty clear you don’t give a rip Yep I would have no problem kicking some lazy ass slob that is fully capable of working But would rather sit around drinking and using drugs, eating the food meant for the kids,
sucking off the governments hind tit!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 3, 2019 22:11:40 GMT -5
of course not. As long as those agencies are not loaded down with useless regulations. Would you please share with us 3 “useless regulations” and why they are useless, instead of just buzzwording ‘regulation’ as if they are all useless. I keep thinking that regulations come from the will of We The People , through our elected representatives, and then into regulatory reform as mandated therein. Please share. You mean something like my collector car that has not moved in three years, is required to have insurance and license plates? Why am I required to carry workman's comp, when I only hire licensed and insured sub contractors?? Why can't I buy incandescent light bulbs??
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 3, 2019 22:12:26 GMT -5
Would you please share with us 3 “useless regulations” and why they are useless, instead of just buzzwording ‘regulation’ as if they are all useless. I keep thinking that regulations come from the will of We The People , through our elected representatives, and then into regulatory reform as mandated therein. Please share. You mean something like my collector car that has not moved in three years, is required to have insurance and license plates? Why am I required to carry workman's comp, when I only hire licensed and insured sub contractors?? Why can't I buy incandescent light bulbs??
This could go on for weeks.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 3, 2019 22:14:14 GMT -5
Or they just don't want to pay for poorly designed programs that do more harm than good. In the 1960's, Democrats created a welfare system that paid low income women more money than they could get from working for having children they weren't ready for with men who weren't going to stick around. This had a devastating effect on the culture and economic mobility. I saw it in my own family. 2 generations of my cousins, who are as white as I am, were flushed down the toilet because they were raised in unstable households in an effed up culture where they were taught to be self destructive idiots. Instead of enacting some sensible welfare reform in the 1980's, when it was obvious that the current system wasn't working, liberals doubled down and accused anyone who didn't agree with the status quo of being racist and sexist. It wasn't until welfare was pretty much ended in the 1990's that my cousins started pulling their heads out of their asses and do the things that normal people do--get a job, work your way up the food chain, get married, buy a house. And here you are, accusing anyone who doesn't want to repeat that mistake of being a greedy bastard. This is not how you get things done. This is why we can't have nice things. Nobody wants to work with someone who will accuse them of being evil if they have a difference of opinion on how to achieve the same goal.
I think our government could and should do more to support families and increase economic mobility. But it won't happen while there are people like you in it. Cute. Funny how you didn't say anything to OC when he said he wants to piss on the graves of liberals. However, if I say something, you get your feelings hurt and pen a nasty screed. How are people supposed to work together when you have the other side wanting to piss on our graves? Your hypocrisy is astounding, but not surprising. In any case, the programs I'm in favour of KEEPS PEOPLE OFF WELFARE. If your medical bills are covered by single-payer, you don't go bankrupt and end up on welfare. If a woman's job is guaranteed after childbirth, she stays off welfare. If there's subsidized child-care, a woman can go back to work and stays off welfare. What's the point of working if child-care sucks up more than you make? The USA has more people on welfare per capita than any other country in the world. In any case, what do you mean "when welfare ended in the 90s?" Welfare didn't end. You hold a place of great honor,, for you two bottles of Scotch!!
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 4, 2019 9:59:47 GMT -5
Then why only the half million? Why not all? There has to be a requirement that those are not meeting
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2019 11:46:51 GMT -5
if we are not going to have sufficient education in the US so that people know right from wrong, and can reason their way through an election, then we should END our experiment with elected government. because it requires an informed electorate. agreed, but you sure as hell don't need higher education for that. you didn't say higher education. more than one person got caught off guard by that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2019 11:49:01 GMT -5
innovation: sciencenordic.com/norway-more-innovative-previously-suggested
educational choice in Norway: what are you talking about? I have never heard that before.
car taxes: it is true that car taxes are high. they are also proportional to vehicle weight. this is to reduce the cost of road repairs and increase fuel efficiency, and lower pollution. so, yes, if you have a monster truck, you will pay 100%. if you own a nice little two seater, significantly less.
effective tax rates in Norway are about 50%. in the US it is about 30%, then we pay 20% for our healthcare. because....FREEDOM (to enrich corporations)
What do they pay their Dr.? average $200k. pretty much the same as here for GP's:
salarieswiki.com/physician/
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2019 11:52:56 GMT -5
Cute. Funny how you didn't say anything to OC when he said he wants to piss on the graves of liberals. However, if I say something, you get your feelings hurt and pen a nasty screed. How are people supposed to work together when you have the other side wanting to piss on our graves? Your hypocrisy is astounding, but not surprising. In any case, the programs I'm in favour of KEEPS PEOPLE OFF WELFARE. If your medical bills are covered by single-payer, you don't go bankrupt and end up on welfare. If a woman's job is guaranteed after childbirth, she stays off welfare. If there's subsidized child-care, a woman can go back to work and stays off welfare. What's the point of working if child-care sucks up more than you make? The USA has more people on welfare per capita than any other country in the world. In any case, what do you mean "when welfare ended in the 90s?" Welfare didn't end. Yes, you're right, welfare didn't end in the 1990's, it was just pared down, brutally. Try spending 40 years being told that disagreeing with obviously failed policies makes you a Nazi, and let's see how willing you are to work with the other side. everyone has their cross to bear.
in my case, it is 40 years of being a peacenik. I have not been able to cast a SINGLE VOTE for president in good conscience during that time.
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