OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jul 23, 2019 19:10:10 GMT -5
But it is only for $640 Billion!
For all of you worked hard, paid off your student loans, How about a slap in the face. All of those that took on tons of student debt,, for a degree in advance basket weaving,,, no repayment for you!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 23, 2019 19:21:13 GMT -5
fine by me.
I was pissed that I ever had the debt. would never wish that on anyone.
edit: I would like to see a funding measure for this bill, however. edit2: I would also like it to be means tested, but it is probably too late for that.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jul 23, 2019 19:49:00 GMT -5
I would agree with paying the loan debt in full to those that get a job in the field they went to college for or at least their degree has some tangent with what they are doing for a living. There are way too many that went to college with nothing in mind, no plan, no desire to work on bettering themselves, no research into “is it worth?” And ofcourse id like to see how will be funded. I’d be all for removing all subsidies to big Corp and all their tax incentives and breaks. Next would be reducing the DOD budget.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 23, 2019 20:03:04 GMT -5
How about so many hours of community service? Say two hours of community service (not necessarily related to their college major) pays off the cost of one college credit?
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Jul 23, 2019 21:24:46 GMT -5
Or military service...my DGS is going to join after he gets his 4 yr. degree to go further & the military will pay for it.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 24, 2019 11:50:32 GMT -5
I think doing something to control the cost of college would be more useful in the long run. For example, I could get behind the government refusing to back any student loans and to any institution with the tuition and fees are above some certain amount.
And there are a lot of well-paying jobs out there that don’t require a four-year degree going unfilled. But since the high schools are so focused on college prep, many students are not even getting exposed to the skilled trades. That’s a huge problem that needs to be addressed.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 24, 2019 12:02:04 GMT -5
I don't agree with this plan at all. I have no problem having student loan holders do community service, or some other way to pay it down. I have no problem changing the interest, allowing bankruptcy, etc. I just don't think these people should get their debt wiped away for free. I know many people who were wildly irresponsible with their student loans. My neighbor when I was 20 bought a drum set with part of his loan money. A drum set! Meanwhile, I went right to work after high school because I knew I couldn't afford to go to anymore college than classes at the local CC. Because I don't have a bachelors degree, I will make hundreds of thousands of dollars less in my work lifetime than those that do have a degree. If I had known years ago that I could go to college, rack up loans for whatever I wanted to study, and they would be erased by the government, I'd probably have a degree right now. And I'd be making a lot more money.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 24, 2019 12:04:09 GMT -5
Not to mention, doesn't only like 30% or something, of the population have a degree? Are we really going to make 70% of the population pay for 30% because they made bad decisions?
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jul 24, 2019 13:02:22 GMT -5
fine by me.
I was pissed that I ever had the debt. would never wish that on anyone.
edit: I would like to see a funding measure for this bill, however. edit2: I would also like it to be means tested, but it is probably too late for that. Looks like it is means tested - it will forgive loans of up to $50k for households earning under $100k. It's funded by a 2% wealth tax on assets of over $50 million. As a practical measure, I wonder how on earth she is planning to find everyone's money and keep it in places where it can be taxed.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 24, 2019 13:25:06 GMT -5
fine by me.
I was pissed that I ever had the debt. would never wish that on anyone.
edit: I would like to see a funding measure for this bill, however. edit2: I would also like it to be means tested, but it is probably too late for that. Looks like it is means tested - it will forgive loans of up to $50k for households earning under $100k. It's funded by a 2% wealth tax on assets of over $50 million. As a practical measure, I wonder how on earth she is planning to find everyone's money and keep it in places where it can be taxed. yay...we reward people for making stupid decisions. How about people stop taking out loans of $50k for careers that would pay less than $100k
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 24, 2019 13:37:45 GMT -5
Completely against taxpayers paying off student loan debt under these circumstances. Get the government out of the business of guaranteeing student loans and lets see what happens to the cost of college.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 13:51:10 GMT -5
fine by me.
I was pissed that I ever had the debt. would never wish that on anyone.
edit: I would like to see a funding measure for this bill, however. edit2: I would also like it to be means tested, but it is probably too late for that. Looks like it is means tested - it will forgive loans of up to $50k for households earning under $100k. It's funded by a 2% wealth tax on assets of over $50 million. As a practical measure, I wonder how on earth she is planning to find everyone's money and keep it in places where it can be taxed. well, it doesn't need to be "kept" anywhere. wealth can be in hard assets, so there is no "there" there.
but I agree with the first part of your question.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 13:51:49 GMT -5
Looks like it is means tested - it will forgive loans of up to $50k for households earning under $100k. It's funded by a 2% wealth tax on assets of over $50 million. As a practical measure, I wonder how on earth she is planning to find everyone's money and keep it in places where it can be taxed. yay...we reward people for making stupid decisions. How about people stop taking out loans of $50k for careers that would pay less than $100k what stupid decision? going to college, and not being able to afford it?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 13:55:38 GMT -5
Completely against taxpayers paying off student loan debt under these circumstances. Get the government out of the business of guaranteeing student loans and lets see what happens to the cost of college. I am against public institutions charging for college. so, that cost would be....zero?
that would make the debt approximately the same.
before i hear the standard objections, i would only advocate paying for the education of those fields that WE, THE PUBLIC deem "necessary to the security and furtherance of national goals", and only to those that meet certain academic qualifications. that would be STEM programs, teaching credentials, and the trades. if we want to add mental health professionals, i have no objection, provided that they "comp" us through free services to disadvantaged members of the public.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 24, 2019 14:13:34 GMT -5
Completely against taxpayers paying off student loan debt under these circumstances. Get the government out of the business of guaranteeing student loans and lets see what happens to the cost of college. I am against public institutions charging for college. so, that cost would be....zero?
that would make the debt approximately the same.
before i hear the standard objections, i would only advocate paying for the education of those fields that WE, THE PUBLIC deem "necessary to the security and furtherance of national goals", and only to those that meet certain academic qualifications. that would be STEM programs, teaching credentials, and the trades. if we want to add mental health professionals, i have no objection, provided that they "comp" us through free services to disadvantaged members of the public.
I'm against paying for choices made by young adults some of which don't even know what they want to do in life so they go to college and go through the motions. A scary number of high school graduates are unprepared for college and for some of those individuals I don't think the answer is more taxpayer funded education. I can't get behind pushing young adults into certain fields they may not really want to pursue a career in but they do it because it's "free" and has been deemed "necessary" by the government. A lot of majors are already impacted so what happens when you add people who don't really want to be there to the list of people who actually do? In certain walks of life I want to deal with people who really wanted to end up there and put the time in. I'd rather focus on high school and creating trade schools or some path towards that as an option for kids who aren't going to end up with a 4 year degree.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 24, 2019 14:17:06 GMT -5
Look, I am as bleeding heart liberal as they come. I am all for food stamps, section 8, welfare, school lunches, reduced utilities, etc. Why are they different? Because food, a roof over your head, and heat/cool air are pretty much a necessity to survive on this planet. Education up through high school is completely free, and anything else is not a necessity to survival. Sure, make cc free again or reduced price, but soon after, an AA/AS degree will be the same as a high school diploma. We've already seen how worthless some 4 year degrees have become just because everyone got them to say they had them (liberal arts anyone ). I think restructuring how the student loan system in this country works is a great idea, but just giving away 50K to everyone who makes less than 100K and has student loans is to me, a really stupid idea. Warren is pandering to a small portion of the voting population, and I think this is gonna hurt her in her presidential bid if she keeps this up.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 14:18:04 GMT -5
I am against public institutions charging for college. so, that cost would be....zero?
that would make the debt approximately the same.
before i hear the standard objections, i would only advocate paying for the education of those fields that WE, THE PUBLIC deem "necessary to the security and furtherance of national goals", and only to those that meet certain academic qualifications. that would be STEM programs, teaching credentials, and the trades. if we want to add mental health professionals, i have no objection, provided that they "comp" us through free services to disadvantaged members of the public.
I'm against paying for choices made by young adults some of which don't even know what they want to do in life so they go to college and go through the motions. A scary number of high school graduates are unprepared for college and for some of those individuals I don't think the answer is more taxpayer funded education. I can't get behind pushing young adults into certain fields they may not really want to pursue a career in but they do it because it's "free" and has been deemed "necessary" by the government. A lot of majors are already impacted so what happens when you add people who don't really want to be there to the list of people who actually do? In certain walks of life I want to deal with people who really wanted to end up there and put the time in. I'd rather focus on high school and creating trade schools or some path towards that as an option for kids who aren't going to end up with a 4 year degree. that wasn't an answer, as what i suggested did not preclude NOT funding adolescent indecision.
care to take another stab at it?
NOTE: i did say that they would have to qualify for a free ride. i am actually pretty careful about such things. qualifying would include showing your ability to perform. i have an idea about how to do that, as well, but let's just stick to the facts and the question for the moment.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 24, 2019 14:19:12 GMT -5
yay...we reward people for making stupid decisions. How about people stop taking out loans of $50k for careers that would pay less than $100k what stupid decision? going to college, and not being able to afford it? Taking out way more money than you should have just because you could! Lets face it, alot of these folks that hundreds of thousands in student loan are not all doctors and lawyers with advanced degrees. Many of them took out buttloads of money because they could, or because they changed their mind many times, or went to grad school when it was totally not necessary. Going to college is a good decision, borrowing multiple mortgages worth of loans to do so is a stupid decision.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 14:19:25 GMT -5
Look, I am as bleeding heart liberal as they come. I am all for food stamps, section 8, welfare, school lunches, reduced utilities, etc. Why are they different? Because food, a roof over your head, and heat/cool air are pretty much a necessity to survive on this planet. Education up through high school is completely free, and anything else is not a necessity to survival. Sure, make cc free again or reduced price, but soon after, an AA/AS degree will be the same as a high school diploma. We've already seen how worthless some 4 year degrees have become just because everyone got them to say they had them (liberal arts anyone ). I think restructuring how the student loan system in this country works is a great idea, but just giving away 50K to everyone who makes less than 100K and has student loans is to me, a really stupid idea. Warren is pandering to a small portion of the voting population, and I think this is gonna hurt her in her presidential bid if she keeps this up. as the world gets more educated and we get more technical as a people, more education will indeed be required to work in ANY field.
i think you are obsessing on the forgiveness, and not the problem. jmho.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 14:20:26 GMT -5
what stupid decision? going to college, and not being able to afford it? Taking out way more money than you should have just because you could! you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, imo.
what about those (the majority) that are doing it because they have no other alternative?
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 24, 2019 14:22:41 GMT -5
Look, I am as bleeding heart liberal as they come. I am all for food stamps, section 8, welfare, school lunches, reduced utilities, etc. Why are they different? Because food, a roof over your head, and heat/cool air are pretty much a necessity to survive on this planet. Education up through high school is completely free, and anything else is not a necessity to survival. Sure, make cc free again or reduced price, but soon after, an AA/AS degree will be the same as a high school diploma. We've already seen how worthless some 4 year degrees have become just because everyone got them to say they had them (liberal arts anyone ). I think restructuring how the student loan system in this country works is a great idea, but just giving away 50K to everyone who makes less than 100K and has student loans is to me, a really stupid idea. Warren is pandering to a small portion of the voting population, and I think this is gonna hurt her in her presidential bid if she keeps this up. as the world gets more educated and we get more technical as a people, more education will indeed be required to work in ANY field.
i think you are obsessing on the forgiveness, and not the problem. jmho.
Of course I am! I feel like I got the short end of the stick for being responsible when I was 18. If you read my first post you will understand why. There are many others who worked very hard, and paid off their loans. They are feeling the same way as I am.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 14:25:13 GMT -5
as the world gets more educated and we get more technical as a people, more education will indeed be required to work in ANY field.
i think you are obsessing on the forgiveness, and not the problem. jmho.
Of course I am! I feel like I got the short end of the stick for being responsible when I was 18. If you read my first post you will understand why. There are many others who worked very hard, and paid off their loans. They are feeling the same way as I am. you are making the same mistake that conservatives make with their "welfare queen" rhetoric.
most people who receive welfare use it as a bridge to a better future. there is no reason to think that those that have their debt relieved would not fit that same profile, imo.
if you have proof that those that take out student loans are largely grifters, and that forgiving the debt would be forgiving the grifting, bring it.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 24, 2019 14:26:41 GMT -5
Taking out way more money than you should have just because you could! you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, imo.
what about those (the majority) that are doing it because they have no other alternative?
I disagree that there are a majority of students that are taking out $50K+ in students loans because there is no other alternative. There are plenty of other alternatives. Military, CC, and trade school come to mind right off the top of my head.
For the record, I am 39, and have many friends that were taking out loans in the early 2000s (when I was of college age), not because they needed it, but because it was "free" money to them and they were 20 years old and naïve. From my personal experience, this was much more common than taking out loans because there was just no other option. But just my experience living 11 years in a college town.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jul 24, 2019 14:29:19 GMT -5
Of course I am! I feel like I got the short end of the stick for being responsible when I was 18. If you read my first post you will understand why. There are many others who worked very hard, and paid off their loans. They are feeling the same way as I am. you are making the same mistake that conservatives make with their "welfare queen" rhetoric.
most people who receive welfare use it as a bridge to a better future. there is no reason to think that those that have their debt relieved would not fit that same profile, imo.
if you have proof that those that take out student loans are largely grifters, and that forgiving the debt would be forgiving the grifting, bring it.
I may be, but its how I feel. A college degree isn't a necessity, like food and shelter. We will have to agree to disagree.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 24, 2019 14:29:55 GMT -5
I'm against paying for choices made by young adults some of which don't even know what they want to do in life so they go to college and go through the motions. A scary number of high school graduates are unprepared for college and for some of those individuals I don't think the answer is more taxpayer funded education. I can't get behind pushing young adults into certain fields they may not really want to pursue a career in but they do it because it's "free" and has been deemed "necessary" by the government. A lot of majors are already impacted so what happens when you add people who don't really want to be there to the list of people who actually do? In certain walks of life I want to deal with people who really wanted to end up there and put the time in. I'd rather focus on high school and creating trade schools or some path towards that as an option for kids who aren't going to end up with a 4 year degree. that wasn't an answer, as what i suggested did not preclude NOT funding adolescent indecision.
care to take another stab at it?
NOTE: i did say that they would have to qualify for a free ride. i am actually pretty careful about such things. qualifying would include showing your ability to perform. i have an idea about how to do that, as well, but let's just stick to the facts and the question for the moment.
Who decides that STEM, teaching, mental health and the trades are where it stops? I want people in professions who want to be there not people who are pushed there because of financial reasons. Money should be a factor but it shouldn't be the driving force behind what someone does for a living. Plenty of people have gone to college and gotten the degree they wanted without taking on a ton of debt and it is still possible today. I don't think taxpayers should be expected to fund it and that's where we differ. Edit - if we had a balanced budget I could support something like this or even if they agreed to come up with the cost by making cuts elsewhere. My biggest issue is we're 22T+ in debt, running annual deficits and politicians on both sides only seem to be interested in doing things that add to the debt which involves cutting taxes (reps) for the wealthy and new taxes (dems) to fund promises. Sooner or later something has to give and I'm expecting it to be when there's no other choice rather than our politicians being proactive about it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 15:07:04 GMT -5
you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, imo.
what about those (the majority) that are doing it because they have no other alternative?
I disagree that there are a majority of students that are taking out $50K+ in students loans because there is no other alternative. There are plenty of other alternatives. Military, CC, and trade school come to mind right off the top of my head.
For the record, I am 39, and have many friends that were taking out loans in the early 2000s (when I was of college age), not because they needed it, but because it was "free" money to them and they were 20 years old and naïve. From my personal experience, this was much more common than taking out loans because there was just no other option. But just my experience living 11 years in a college town.
that's fine. but your statement will be difficult to prove. then again, so would mine.
given your avatar, I kinda guessed you were 39, btw.
the only anecdotal experience I am relying on is my own. I also had student loan debt. I also paid it. it doesn't make me feel any better or worse to have others not share my misery. I simply object to having the misery in the first place.
don't you?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 15:07:53 GMT -5
that wasn't an answer, as what i suggested did not preclude NOT funding adolescent indecision.
care to take another stab at it?
NOTE: i did say that they would have to qualify for a free ride. i am actually pretty careful about such things. qualifying would include showing your ability to perform. i have an idea about how to do that, as well, but let's just stick to the facts and the question for the moment.
Who decides that STEM, teaching, mental health and the trades are where it stops? the taxpayers and their representatives, of course. this is a democracy, at least on paper, right?
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 15:10:57 GMT -5
Edit - if we had a balanced budget I could support something like this or even if they agreed to come up with the cost by making cuts elsewhere. My biggest issue is we're 22T+ in debt, running annual deficits and politicians on both sides only seem to be interested in doing things that add to the debt which involves cutting taxes (reps) for the wealthy and new taxes (dems) to fund promises. Sooner or later something has to give and I'm expecting it to be when there's no other choice rather than our politicians being proactive about it.
this is a separate issue, which could be easily addressed if either party had the will to address it.
but congress is pwned by various business factions that are leeching off our taxes, so I am not counting on it.
this is a 12 step programme, imo. step one is getting money out of politics. we are never going to make it past that step, imo, so any course of action that would fix the problem is out of the question, imo.
yet another reason I have given up.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2019 15:13:58 GMT -5
you are making the same mistake that conservatives make with their "welfare queen" rhetoric.
most people who receive welfare use it as a bridge to a better future. there is no reason to think that those that have their debt relieved would not fit that same profile, imo.
if you have proof that those that take out student loans are largely grifters, and that forgiving the debt would be forgiving the grifting, bring it.
I may be, but its how I feel. A college degree isn't a necessity, like food and shelter. We will have to agree to disagree. agreeing to disagree is an oxymoron, imo. we either agree or disagree.
college is not a necessity any more than having a left arm is a necessity. it is, however, practically impossible for most people to succeed without a degree.
so what you are really saying is that success is not necessary, and that failure is an option for everyone. I can't argue with that. failure is indeed an option. an option that more and more people will be faced with going forward. it is one of the reasons Trump won.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 24, 2019 15:19:23 GMT -5
Who decides that STEM, teaching, mental health and the trades are where it stops? the taxpayers and their representatives, of course. this is a democracy, at least on paper, right? Some of the most in demand majors aren't in the group you listed and they can contribute just as much to society. Would this be decided via a vote or would our elected representatives make the decision? To be honest I don't really trust many of our elected officials to make the right choice because some will give away anything and everything to buy votes. Would the qualifications be strictly merit based or could a student lose out because of their ethnicity? Would their be standardized tests all individuals take to ensure it's an even playing field and there's no inflated GPA's from nice or "helpful" teachers? I'm really not trying to be the contrarian (even though I read these questions and think they may come off as be being an ahole) but I see something like this where only certain majors are included as being a nightmare to oversee and figure out where we draw the line. I also see the wealth tax backfiring and like most things aimed at higher earners or the wealthy the middle class takes a hit.
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