gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jan 18, 2019 11:13:54 GMT -5
I think in this life you do what works for you, and as long as it doesn’t hurt them the rest of the world can pound sand. I agree... at the same time I don't think Sam should even be entertaining the idea of living together as roommates. That's a ridiculous idea that's just slowing down the mental process of filing for divorce because he's being pleasant. I really am glad he's behaving better but that should make it easier to co-parent and allow each of them to find new partners that meet their emotional needs.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 18, 2019 13:39:34 GMT -5
The issue is that no matter how his behavior has changed, your relationship has been damaged. Do you want a loveless marriage? Just because he does a few chores and has stopped being an a**hole? He's making conscious steps to being a better human. I fully support it. Our kids need an awesome dad, so I am happy to support his changes and growth for their sakes. Can H be my roommate who raises kids with me, but we can have side interests too? That's probably too much to hope for. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. Either part or don't but I would not attempt an in between thing. It's great he's doing better but is a week enough to make up for all the time lost? Only you can decide that.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 18, 2019 15:50:21 GMT -5
I think in this life you do what works for you, and as long as it doesn’t hurt them the rest of the world can pound sand. I agree... at the same time I don't think Sam should even be entertaining the idea of living together as roommates. That's a ridiculous idea that's just slowing down the mental process of filing for divorce because he's being pleasant. I really am glad he's behaving better but that should make it easier to co-parent and allow each of them to find new partners that meet their emotional needs. I don't think she should do it either. And I don't think her husband would go for it. But here is the bottom line. I'm not Sam. I don't get to live her life. I don't know all the details. And I don't get to make her decisions. It's not a ridiculous idea. It's an improbable solution. It would take different therapy and boundaries than a divorce, but it would still require as much if not more work going forward. Ultimately though they are going to need to put in that work and reinvent their family. Is it likely that some idealized 'splitting up together' is going to be the best option for what will work? Unlikely. But some version will need to happen. They will need to decide what that will be.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 20, 2019 21:17:56 GMT -5
I hope i didn't shut this conversation down I think the word ridiculous triggered me the other day.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 20, 2019 21:24:17 GMT -5
I doubt it. But it's Sam's thread and I know I try not to be too obnoxious about asking for updates and all.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 21, 2019 21:58:48 GMT -5
I hope i didn't shut this conversation down I think the word ridiculous triggered me the other day. Lol, you didnt shut it down. I may be disappointing everyone here, but plans to file are on hold. As are plans to hang out with work dude H is showing real work. Real effort. I do t have romantic feelings but I appreciate it. I am willing to wait a second. I told him of file in April if I was still unhappy. Gives us time to list the house and figure out next school year. Maybe it's the longing to make this work, or the hope that I can get that redeeming love story. Who knows. Theres been no outburst like Thanksgiving, and every effort made to be the opposite. Hes participating in family life, paying bills, being home and initiating tasksile bedtime and baths, taking trash out and doing dishes. I know that 2 months can still be an act, and my counselor said at least 9 months is needed to show sustained change and growth. I am guarded but optimistic. Prepared to leave now, but hopinh maybe I don't. At this point all I am lacking is my attraction to him, which is still major sticking point. Maybe that infamous love story isnt in the cards for me. But maybe it is? Now I weigh if being unsure or u happy is worth breaking up things for the kids?
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 21, 2019 22:21:25 GMT -5
I can only say this based on my extensive advice columnist reading - staying for the kids when you are unhappy is bad news. The kids pick up on it and doesn't make the pleasantist home and if you then leave the second the kids are out it can do a mindfuck on them (thinking they were the reason mom was so sad all those years).
If you can truly get to an amicable point to stay, that's a different story. But said advice columnist commenters do also point out that not growing up in around a loving relationship effected them negatively in trying to find one themselves.
This is not intended to be a you'll fuck your kids up if you stay - I firmly believe parents fuck their kids up in some way regardless what they do 😉 just that it seems happy parents are best, regardless of how that happens*.
*Excluding things like leaving a 7 year old home alone so parent can go be happy drinking and dancing and the club. 😝
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 21, 2019 22:22:05 GMT -5
My question would be is he treating his mental illness properly?
As a wife of someone with his own mental health issues things are great when he's in the upswing.
But he eventually comes down. It is the nature of the beast.
A condition of me staying is DH has to do the work to get his shit together. It'll be a part of our lives forever but he has to make it a manageable part.
That would be my concern with your DH and needs to be a discussion if you are thinking about staying.
Otherwise it's not a matter of if he'll revert but when. That's a consequence of untreated illness.
And I know for myself I'm not willing to live another 14 years with it. I'm willing to give treatment a chance but he has to do the work and it'll be awhile before I trust the results. He knows this and accepts it. If he refused then I don't care about change now because it won't last any longer than previously.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 22:54:34 GMT -5
I figured that was coming. Don't worry about disappointing us, all we want is for you and your children to be happy and thrive. We'll still be hoping that you get there, whether it happens with you being married to your husband or not. At least I will.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned that his good behavior won't last, but I understand if that's something you need to see for yourself. Some people do get a wake up call when they realize they really are about to lose their family, the messed up part is that the only way to know if that person is going to really make the necessary changes is to wait and see, IF that's what we choose to do. I hope he understands that you choosing to give him the opportunity to show you he means business is a GIFT that he should be grateful for, one that many spouses in your situation would not be willing to give, and that he handles himself accordingly.
I hope you continue to let us know how it's going. Take care!
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chapeau
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Post by chapeau on Jan 21, 2019 22:55:12 GMT -5
Sam, it’s your decision. Whatever you decide, today, next month, next year, it’s your choice. Whatever happens, we’re here for you.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 21, 2019 22:59:25 GMT -5
My question would be is he treating his mental illness properly? As a wife of someone with his own mental health issues things are great when he's in the upswing. But he eventually comes down. It is the nature of the beast. A condition of me staying is DH has to do the work to get his shit together. It'll be a part of our lives forever but he has to make it a manageable part. That would be my concern with your DH and needs to be a discussion if you are thinking about staying. Otherwise it's not a matter of if he'll revert but when. That's a consequence of untreated illness. And I know for myself I'm not willing to live another 14 years with it. I'm willing to give treatment a chance but he has to do the work and it'll be awhile before I trust the results. He knows this and accepts it. If he refused then I don't care about change now because it won't last any longer than previously. Hes been seeing his therapists and staying on his meds for the last several months. That is my non-negotiable. Taking care of himself is first, since he cant at least be a good dad otherwise. I am somewhat willing to maybe be hopeful, but also ready to cut a bitch should things turn again I told him I dont want holding filing over his head as a threat. But I am ready to get the kids out if they need to. As for love stories, I cant be the only one with parents that have a shitty story even if they are together. Some get good love stories. Most don't. I feel like my kids will need therapy regardless I have a friend who has 2 side dudes. Says it makes her marriage more tolerable because shes not asking hubs to be 100% of her happiness. Esther Perel seems to echo that sentiment. Anyway..... I have life to figure out. But my kids are first.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jan 21, 2019 22:59:28 GMT -5
Sam, as said before, I want to see you happy - whether that means divorce or whether it doesn't. But I will echo justme's comments - I've heard from a lot of people whose parents "stayed together for the kids" that they wished their parents would have just divorced - it was obvious that one or both were unhappy. Good luck! I think you should keep on with your planning (paying down debt, saving money, etc.) even though filing is on hold. It just puts you in a better position should that become necessary.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 23:08:54 GMT -5
I hope i didn't shut this conversation down I think the word ridiculous triggered me the other day. Lol, you didnt shut it down. I may be disappointing everyone here, but plans to file are on hold. As are plans to hang out with work dude [img src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wink.png" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png" alt=" " class="smile"] H is showing real work. Real effort. I do t have romantic feelings but I appreciate it. I am willing to wait a second. I told him of file in April if I was still unhappy. Gives us time to list the house and figure out next school year. Maybe it's the longing to make this work, or the hope that I can get that redeeming love story. Who knows. Theres been no outburst like Thanksgiving, and every effort made to be the opposite. Hes participating in family life, paying bills, being home and initiating tasksile bedtime and baths, taking trash out and doing dishes. I know that 2 months can still be an act, and my counselor said at least 9 months is needed to show sustained change and growth. I am guarded but optimistic. Prepared to leave now, but hopinh maybe I don't. At this point all I am lacking is my attraction to him, which is still major sticking point. Maybe that infamous love story isnt in the cards for me. But maybe it is? Now I weigh if being unsure or u happy is worth breaking up things for the kids? I think it's pretty normal to not be attracted to someone when you feel like they don't treat you all that well. If he puts in the work to consistently be a better husband and father, and makes efforts to woo you in ways that are meaningful to you without rushing or trying to pressure you, it's possible that it will come back with time. Both of you are just going to have to be patient, you both have a lot of work to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 23:20:16 GMT -5
My question would be is he treating his mental illness properly? As a wife of someone with his own mental health issues things are great when he's in the upswing. But he eventually comes down. It is the nature of the beast. A condition of me staying is DH has to do the work to get his shit together. It'll be a part of our lives forever but he has to make it a manageable part. That would be my concern with your DH and needs to be a discussion if you are thinking about staying. Otherwise it's not a matter of if he'll revert but when. That's a consequence of untreated illness. And I know for myself I'm not willing to live another 14 years with it. I'm willing to give treatment a chance but he has to do the work and it'll be awhile before I trust the results. He knows this and accepts it. If he refused then I don't care about change now because it won't last any longer than previously. Hes been seeing his therapists and staying on his meds for the last several months. That is my non-negotiable. Taking care of himself is first, since he cant at least be a good dad otherwise. I am somewhat willing to maybe be hopeful, but also ready to cut a bitch should things turn again [img src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wink.png" alt=" " class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png"] I told him I dont want holding filing over his head as a threat. But I am ready to get the kids out if they need to. As for love stories, I cant be the only one with parents that have a shitty story even if they are together. Some get good love stories. Most don't. I feel like my kids will need therapy regardless [img src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wink.png" alt=" " class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png"] I have a friend who has 2 side dudes. Says it makes her marriage more tolerable because shes not asking hubs to be 100% of her happiness. Esther Perel seems to echo that sentiment. Anyway..... I have life to figure out. But my kids are first. Man listen, when you get life all figured out, please share the secrets with me. Life is often complicated and messy, and a lot of us (ME!) don't really know what the heck we're doing, we're just doing the best we can with what we know and have to work with at the time. Side note and irrelevant, I listened to Esther Perel speak a couple of times. I can't remember what she was saying, but I do remember that I was not impressed.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Jan 21, 2019 23:39:23 GMT -5
Do the kids know just how dysfunctional things are between the two of you? I know they’re young, but your daughter is old enough to possibly pick up on things.
My father was an abusive/manipulative drunk and my mom eventually got the courage to leave when I was around 8. Within a few months he cleaned up his act, found religion and put on a show of being a good guy, so we went back. Things got drastically worse within a few years, in different ways. Us kids hated that we went back and sorta never really forgave her for it, though in adulthood we understood more of the dynamics.
Not saying that will happen here, but please put the well being of yourself and your kids first. Don’t fall into the trap of excusing mental or emotional abuse by minimizing it as “well, at least he’s no longer doing XXX or ZZZ, he’s improved so much.” When firm boundaries are given to manipulative individuals, that doesn’t always mean the abuse stops, they often just find subtler ways to gradually regain their control.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 22, 2019 0:17:34 GMT -5
Love stories are basically stories. The only way to have a happy ending is if the story, you know, ends. Because that high note... unsustainable, even in a really good marriage.
I don't know that i'd apply it to side dudes... but one of the undercurrent themes of all Kurt Vonnegut's commencement addresses is that a husband and wife, or immediate family even, cannot be all to one another... you need a community, a tribe.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jan 22, 2019 3:00:04 GMT -5
IMHO, as long as he is seeking treatment and taking his meds combined with decent behavior, there is nothing wrong with taking your time to figure things out. We all have to figure out this life for ourselves and I truly hope that you don't worry about disappointing is here in the peanut gallery - lol. Seriously though, we love you and want only the best for you and your family. I hope it's ok to say that we will still be here for you as you figure this out and after.
For me, I chose a legal separation to protect me and my assets. It also gave me/us time to figure it out. Almost a year and a half later he "yanked my chain" for the last time and by the time the divorce was final six months later I was as ready as one can be. I've never regretted the time I spent to wait and see and grow. He was both unable and unwilling to follow through with treatment for periodic alcoholism and PTSD and time let me become OK with divorce for those reasons. So be safe and take your time to sort it all out.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 22, 2019 7:06:31 GMT -5
Good luck moving forward. If it doesn't work, you know what you have do to move forward. More time allows you to be better positioned. You have come a long way and become a stronger person. If he's finally got it together, great. If not you have a plan.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 22, 2019 13:35:47 GMT -5
I read this on chumplady forums and thought of Sam.
Marge, I too had to make this decision, when Cheater Narc started coming around, wanting to talk about ‘what we would have to do to try again’. My situation was a bit different, because we had already reconciled, at my initiative, after his first affair 7 years prior. But I still had those questions; would reconciling be the best thing for me, for the kids? Since he seemed to have, this time, some estimation of what he had lost (I don’t think he’d ever thought he could lose anything, during/after 1st affair), and seemed really unhappy about that, now seemed aware that the grass wasn’t actually greener on the other side of the fence … maybe … maybe? Plus, after an ultimatum the previous year, about his being just negative and mean to the kids and I, he had been treating us all so much better, which we told and showed him we so appreciated, our relationship had been going so much better! The kids were tweens, our careers were in full swing, $ was more plentiful, everything was getting easier and better. Wasn’t it worth a try?
Here’s what super helped; – I made a list of what it would take for an attempt at reconciliation to be made. What would I need to hear from him? What would I expect him to do? Immediately, medium-term and long-term. Importantly, unlike after Affair #1, I did NOT share this info with him. I wanted to know whether he would take the initiative to look on the web, buy the books, talk to the therapists, to figure out how he could repair what he had broken. I wanted to know whether he would think about what I might need, what the kids might need, what makes a successful, satisfying long-term relationship, and what HE would have to do and have to change, in order to achieve that. – then the most important step; I listened to him. Probably for the first time in our relationship, I just listened. I didn’t have a dialogue, and most importantly, I didn’t put in my thoughts or opinions, I didn’t explain anything, I didn’t assert my needs or the kids’. The only things I said were clarifying questions and re-statements of his words, to make sure I had understood clearly. I treated him like a responsible, competent, intelligent adult, (after all, he was in his mid-40s, with a Ph.D. in physics and an MBA and a fairly successful career) instead of doing 90% of the relationship work.
This was revolutionary. It made me see how much I had spackled over the years, how he ACTUALLY thought and felt.
I learned that; – he thought that this affair, like the first one, had been caused by his being unhappy w/our relationship. When asked what he wished he had done differently, prior to starting this 2nd affair, his answer was ‘I wish I had been clearer with you about my needs’. This from the man who had been coddled, catered to, and around whom I had been walking on egg-shells. The man who had been treated w/so much love, affection, excellent and frequent sex, support …. for the entirety of our relationship. The man whose first affair, threats of violence and one actual violent incident, and long-term plain old grumpiness had been truly forgiven. The man for whom I had moved away from my dream job in my dream city for his career, who enjoyed his kids (while I did 85% of the parenting), a nice home (while I did 80% of the work for that), improved relationships w/his own family (thanks to me), who had done a bunch of certifications and an MBA (while I picked up even more w/house and kids to allow him the time to do those), had changed jobs a dozen times over the 14 ys at that point (while I paid the bills ‘in between’ and supported him w/o a single negative word about this)…. You get the picture.
– he thought reconciliation would start w/our ‘dating’ and having sex, to re-establish the foundations. Followed quickly by his moving back in and everything going back to normal. Then maybe (MAYBE) later we could do some couple therapy ‘so we could get along better’.
– he thought apologies were unnecessary, because there certainly weren’t any. When he eventually saw the hoovering wasn’t working, he said ‘I’m sorry’. This time I asked ‘for what?’ He said ‘that things didn’t work out between us.’
– and I listened to a LOT of what a sad sausage he was, how unhappy, how bewildered by his own behaviour – a helpless, powerless bewilderment. (Followed by ZERO intention, no mention of getting some therapy to figure this out.) He told me how the affair hadn’t been working out well (although he was still in it), how unhappy he was without the kids and me…. ZERO interest in how any of us were feeling, btw. 100% focus on him.
– and most importantly, that he was trying to get me back, while still ‘in a relationship’ w/OW. The first couple of conversations, she knew he was thinking of coming back to me, and he went to be w/her for the weekend in between two of those talks. Later, on another hoover try months later, it became clear, through my clarifying questions, that he was actually at that point trying to cheat on her with me. But this was OK, because I was his wife!!
– he thought his cheating was not that big a deal, because ‘it happens all the time’. When queried about this, he mentioned a movie and a novel – because those are great measures of real life, I guess.
– he thought his violence and threats of violence also weren’t not a big deal (actual quote!) because he hadn’t actually hurt me on any of those occasions. Became quite annoyed that I did think they were a big deal, indeed. Clearly I was being ridiculous.
So, yeah. I agree w/everyone above; you have nothing to work with here. (If he’s not actually in touch w/OW, it’s probably either because she’s not interested, or temporary and he’ll circle around back to her in a bit.) But if you have any doubts about that, I would suggest LISTENING to him. That may give you a better idea of what you have to work with.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jan 22, 2019 22:37:15 GMT -5
I've probably been harder on your DH than almost anyone in this thread, but I can honestly say: fuck what we all think. It's your life and you're the one living it. We just want you to be happy. If you are seeing enough change that it makes you want to hit the pause button, or the stop button, or whatever button you want to hit, then do that. If there's a chance this could be a happy ending for you and you want it, take the chance. If it's not after all, then you can cross that bridge when you come to it.
Its your our life and only you can decide how you're going to live it, so don't worry about disappointing us for heavens sake!
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jan 22, 2019 22:52:21 GMT -5
I chose divorce in my first marriage. It was a super-hard, overwhelming decision. Part of it was made easier by my XH making no attempt to save the marriage and turning into a bigger douchecanoe than he already was. I'm not sure what I would have done had he actually put even a little attempt into trying to have a mildly mature and productive marriage.
A good friend of mine had all of the money set aside to rent a house and have living expenses for six months (time for her to get a job as she's a SAHM) when she told her husband she was done. Even though she'd asked him several times to work on the marriage, he really didn't see and/or care about the problems she saw until she had it all in place to sever their partnership. When she showed him the actual house she was going to mover herself and their kids into, it clicked. He busted his ass to fix the marriage. It's been at least five years, and they're still married.
Sam_2.0, I'm glad you get the choice to see if it will work. If it doesn't, you know you absolutely did give it everything you had. Lots of hugs.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jan 23, 2019 1:00:16 GMT -5
I have written about our problems, it worked out ok. If I had not had kids I wouldn't have stayed. But my circumstances were a bit different with a disabled child. Not been easy, is not perfect. 51 years this year and he has been working at it since retired. I have seen more changes even now, so staying for me worked out. However, I did not have to deal with abuse or mental illness, would not tolerate abuse, don't know about the other.
Whatever happens, I hope it works out for you, I have read a lot of this thread. Nothing more to add, just that's its your decision not ours. Good luck.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 23, 2019 11:31:03 GMT -5
The baby woke up with a croup cough in the middle of the night. H actually got up and stayed up with me while I sat with the baby, and got the meds and things for him. And this morning he got the kids all ready to go while I was in the shower so that we could leave once I was done getting ready. I like it when he's nice and involved. Still sleeping in the other room, though. I like my space too
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 23, 2019 11:34:04 GMT -5
Sam, the only time dh and and I actually sleep in the same bed is on vacations. If you get better sleep by yourself stick with it.
Our sex life is fine. I snore. I got tired of dh poking me all night long.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jan 23, 2019 11:34:10 GMT -5
Maybe getting so close to losing everything has shown him that you're not putting up with his crap. I hope the trend continues, but if it doesn't, you'll already know how to proceed. Good luck.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 23, 2019 11:59:31 GMT -5
The baby woke up with a croup cough in the middle of the night. H actually got up and stayed up with me while I sat with the baby, and got the meds and things for him. And this morning he got the kids all ready to go while I was in the shower so that we could leave once I was done getting ready. I like it when he's nice and involved. Still sleeping in the other room, though. I like my space too I like my husband I like my space too. Nothing wrong with that.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jan 23, 2019 12:33:25 GMT -5
I like my husband too and I think having my own room would be awesome.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jan 23, 2019 12:46:33 GMT -5
I like my husband too and I think having my own room would be awesome. I don't like my husband but can confirm having my own room is amazing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 12:55:18 GMT -5
I like my husband too and I think having my own room would be awesome. I don't like my husband but can confirm having my own room is amazing. Wait, what?!
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jan 23, 2019 13:09:22 GMT -5
I don't like my husband but can confirm having my own room is amazing. Wait, what?! To which part? I don't like my husband much. I'm figuring out what I want to do about that. He snores like a freight train and refuses to use his CPAP, so I made him move downstairs so I actually sleep.
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