oped
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Post by oped on Jan 14, 2019 22:02:12 GMT -5
Your husband's recent behavior reminds me both of my father and some religious friends i have... I think the old story of my father and one of the ex steps in counseling applies. How they were assigned a book to read and she came back with passages highlighted where she could do better... and he also came back with passages highlighted where she could do better... .... in the end, at its heart, you are wrong and he is right. And that is why you should be so much more grateful that he is 'trying' because ultimately its a gift he's giving you... because you are after all the one who is wrong at the core... Also it reminds me of how some of my religious friends talk about/to LGBT people... But i love you... I'm sorry you are upset by how i talk and act towards you.... but if you just understood how fundamentally flawed and sinful and damned you are, and stopped being that way, you'd see how i want what is best for you and accept my love...
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 14, 2019 22:25:05 GMT -5
One can totally be nice and stand up for yourself. Problem is that it's hard for someone to walk all over your back if you're standing up. This has been hard for me to learn. Because Ive been told all along that I shouldn't be too controversial. God loves the peacemaker, afterall, and women should have gentle and quiet spirits. And complying often meant avoiding punishment for being different. I'm still so glad I finally got up the courage to leave the church. This breaks my heart. Not in a pitying way, just in a sucks that was the way you were raised. My parents raised me to be independent, even to their detriment (watch out teenage years, mom still grumbles about my stance on cursing lol), and I still remember a convo about dating in high school where my dad chuckled something along the lines of not needing a shotgun because I'll kick the guy's ass before he has a chance to. (Though I won't lie, his prophecy wasn't always true)
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jan 14, 2019 22:37:32 GMT -5
This has been hard for me to learn. Because Ive been told all along that I shouldn't be too controversial. God loves the peacemaker, afterall, and women should have gentle and quiet spirits. And complying often meant avoiding punishment for being different. I'm still so glad I finally got up the courage to leave the church. Gentle spirit doesn’t mean you have to take his shit. And you could have a gentle spirit if you knew he had your best interest in mind. That's the biblical part that men seem to miss. Men are supposed to be willing to give their life for their wives as their part of submission.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 14, 2019 22:39:57 GMT -5
He said it while we were at home. He's been having a tough time with people asking *him* about my change in beliefs. You know, they could just ask me directly if they really cared. Should I send him a sympathy card?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 14, 2019 22:45:36 GMT -5
One can totally be nice and stand up for yourself. Problem is that it's hard for someone to walk all over your back if you're standing up. This has been hard for me to learn. Because Ive been told all along that I shouldn't be too controversial. God loves the peacemaker, afterall, and women should have gentle and quiet spirits. And complying often meant avoiding punishment for being different. I'm still so glad I finally got up the courage to leave the church. And people wonder why I'm an atheist. Mary Madgeline was Jesus's second in command for Pete's sake. His auidence was those who were different. Just once I'd like to see some good Old testament smoting happen. Put these types of churches in their place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 23:14:33 GMT -5
I remember a few years ago milee described a friend of hers who was really good at gently but firmly enforcing her boundaries with people. She gave a couple of examples of how her friend did this, I've forgotten them now. But I remember thinking that it was a skill I really wish I had. I could definitely use some help with this myself, because I'm not good at all with gentle when people are pushy or what I feel is disrespectful of my boundaries. My "no" tends to escalate to profanity laced language when people ignore "no", "no I'm not going to do that" "I don't like it when you do that" or "please don't do that again". People that know me well IRL already know I cuss a lot anyway, but still. The kinder, gentler me is still a work in progress. It is totally possible to have a gentle spirit or just continue to be nice and pleasant and stand your ground or stand up for yourself. I'm just not consistently good at it myself.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 15, 2019 6:52:14 GMT -5
Your husband's recent behavior reminds me both of my father and some religious friends i have... I think the old story of my father and one of the ex steps in counseling applies. How they were assigned a book to read and she came back with passages highlighted where she could do better... and he also came back with passages highlighted where she could do better... .... in the end, at its heart, you are wrong and he is right. And that is why you should be so much more grateful that he is 'trying' because ultimately its a gift he's giving you... because you are after all the one who is wrong at the core... Also it reminds me of how some of my religious friends talk about/to LGBT people... But i love you... I'm sorry you are upset by how i talk and act towards you.... but if you just understood how fundamentally flawed and sinful and damned you are, and stopped being that way, you'd see how i want what is best for you and accept my love... That is frightening right there. It took me a few counselors before I found the right one. Of course the right one told me to leave my ex because he had zero interest in being a husband which upset him because the counselor was supposed to be saving our marriage. Counselor told him since he wasn’t sincere about saving it, that saving me from it was now his concern. I’m sorry, Sam, I had hoped for a different outcome as I’m sure we all did but turning this back onto you is wrong. If that’s his game, he’s going to lose the best thing that ever happened to him, the love of his family. Breaks my heart.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 15, 2019 6:55:20 GMT -5
The counselor that told me all this was one recommended by our church. So it has nothing to do with God or atheism. The other counselors were recommended by reputations. They were lousy. The one woman actually said I should forget his behavior and move on. Told her I thought a lobotomy might just do that.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 15, 2019 9:12:16 GMT -5
I remember a few years ago milee described a friend of hers who was really good at gently but firmly enforcing her boundaries with people. She gave a couple of examples of how her friend did this, I've forgotten them now. But I remember thinking that it was a skill I really wish I had. I could definitely use some help with this myself, because I'm not good at all with gentle when people are pushy or what I feel is disrespectful of my boundaries. My "no" tends to escalate to profanity laced language when people ignore "no", "no I'm not going to do that" "I don't like it when you do that" or "please don't do that again". People that know me well IRL already know I cuss a lot anyway, but still. The kinder, gentler me is still a work in progress. It is totally possible to have a gentle spirit or just continue to be nice and pleasant and stand your ground or stand up for yourself. I'm just not consistently good at it myself. After ignoring two polite 'no's they deserve whatever comes next to get it through their skull.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Jan 15, 2019 10:21:08 GMT -5
So even now it’s all your fault. His manipulation is just shifting. Doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Does he even like who you are? Who you are becoming? He says that I am a difficult person to be around. That I am angry and harsh and not easy to live with. Such a hard spot for him to be in - trying to love me whilst dealing with the disapproval and "concern" of the church folk. Fun.
I realize that there are many flavors of fundamentalism, but I'm surprised the church does not frown on his alcohol consumption. My few fundamentalist friends drank and smoked cigarettes on the sly for fear of the disapproval of the church folk.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 15, 2019 10:30:33 GMT -5
He says that I am a difficult person to be around. That I am angry and harsh and not easy to live with. Such a hard spot for him to be in - trying to love me whilst dealing with the disapproval and "concern" of the church folk. Fun.
I realize that there are many flavors of fundamentalism, but I'm surprised the church does not frown on his alcohol consumption. My few fundamentalist friends drank and smoked cigarettes on the sly for fear of the disapproval of the church folk. I'm sure he leaves that part of of his "woe is me" story.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jan 15, 2019 10:36:56 GMT -5
He says that I am a difficult person to be around. That I am angry and harsh and not easy to live with. Such a hard spot for him to be in - trying to love me whilst dealing with the disapproval and "concern" of the church folk. Fun.
I realize that there are many flavors of fundamentalism, but I'm surprised the church does not frown on his alcohol consumption. My few fundamentalist friends drank and smoked cigarettes on the sly for fear of the disapproval of the church folk. Or Sam's fundie church has distinctly different "rules" for men. You know, like - men are the masters, men are the providers and the rulers so their sins are forgiven, its for the wife to make up and die for the sins of the men, women have to be the "all good" while men can be men because they were born men. I've seen extreme fundies like that. From what Sam has shared her and his family seem to be VERY extreme.Honestly, I am surprised Sam's being a working mom is somehow and somewhat acceptable in their families.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jan 15, 2019 10:37:52 GMT -5
Your husband's recent behavior reminds me both of my father and some religious friends i have... I think the old story of my father and one of the ex steps in counseling applies. How they were assigned a book to read and she came back with passages highlighted where she could do better... and he also came back with passages highlighted where she could do better... .... in the end, at its heart, you are wrong and he is right. And that is why you should be so much more grateful that he is 'trying' because ultimately its a gift he's giving you... because you are after all the one who is wrong at the core... Also it reminds me of how some of my religious friends talk about/to LGBT people... But i love you... I'm sorry you are upset by how i talk and act towards you.... but if you just understood how fundamentally flawed and sinful and damned you are, and stopped being that way, you'd see how i want what is best for you and accept my love...
Loved this oped! You put this so much more eloquently than I could. Its EXACTLY how I think.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 15, 2019 10:44:16 GMT -5
He said it while we were at home. He's been having a tough time with people asking *him* about my change in beliefs. You know, they could just ask me directly if they really cared. Should I send him a sympathy card? I hear the world's smallest violin playing for him. Oh, nope. The strings snapped.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 15, 2019 14:23:01 GMT -5
I realize that there are many flavors of fundamentalism, but I'm surprised the church does not frown on his alcohol consumption. My few fundamentalist friends drank and smoked cigarettes on the sly for fear of the disapproval of the church folk. Or Sam's fundie church has distinctly different "rules" for men. You know, like - men are the masters, men are the providers and the rulers so their sins are forgiven, its for the wife to make up and die for the sins of the men, women have to be the "all good" while men can be men because they were born men. I've seen extreme fundies like that. From what Sam has shared her and his family seem to be VERY extreme.Honestly, I am surprised Sam's being a working mom is somehow and somewhat acceptable in their families. yeah but then his job would have had to be enough to support everyone. Sorry (not sorry) but I recall the comment H made about being "smart" and never paying for housing because he essentially mooched off people close to him. That's got nothing to do with religious upbringing. If anything, the religious background only reinforced the behavior of what I've "observed" to already be a completely self-interested individual.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 16, 2019 14:25:03 GMT -5
Something changed after counseling on Monday. He seems to be acting genuinely kind, not just putting on a show. Its hard to describe exactly, but I have seen a marked difference in the way he interacts with me and the stuff he does around the house. Its been rather nice.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jan 16, 2019 14:27:24 GMT -5
That does sound nice. I hope he is changing because it will make co-parenting so much easier after you move out.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 16, 2019 14:30:52 GMT -5
Something changed after counseling on Monday. He seems to be acting genuinely kind, not just putting on a show. Its hard to describe exactly, but I have seen a marked difference in the way he interacts with me and the stuff he does around the house. Its been rather nice. Good. I hope he keeps it up: that will make co-parenting so much better for all of you.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 17, 2019 19:58:52 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Work dude needed help today with some stuff. Shared a cube with him for most of the day. Gahhhh! Hes so pretty a distraction from my shit show life is a bit nice.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 17, 2019 20:31:24 GMT -5
No matter how tempting-NO
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jan 17, 2019 22:25:25 GMT -5
Something changed after counseling on Monday. He seems to be acting genuinely kind, not just putting on a show. Its hard to describe exactly, but I have seen a marked difference in the way he interacts with me and the stuff he does around the house. Its been rather nice. The issue is that no matter how his behavior has changed, your relationship has been damaged. Do you want a loveless marriage? Just because he does a few chores and has stopped being an a**hole?
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 17, 2019 22:56:26 GMT -5
Something changed after counseling on Monday. He seems to be acting genuinely kind, not just putting on a show. Its hard to describe exactly, but I have seen a marked difference in the way he interacts with me and the stuff he does around the house. Its been rather nice. The issue is that no matter how his behavior has changed, your relationship has been damaged. Do you want a loveless marriage? Just because he does a few chores and has stopped being an a**hole? He's making conscious steps to being a better human. I fully support it. Our kids need an awesome dad, so I am happy to support his changes and growth for their sakes. Can H be my roommate who raises kids with me, but we can have side interests too? That's probably too much to hope for.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 17, 2019 22:59:09 GMT -5
Yea I feel like that'd be a bridge too far for him! Lol.
Though honestly I also feel like the bridge would be blown to smithereens when he finds a "faithful" women, as in church stuff. Not sure the right term... wine+not religious means faithful sounds right to me, but also not. Ok stopping now.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 17, 2019 23:34:26 GMT -5
Hes not associated with church anymore. Hasn't been in a year. Honestly he seems to be freeing from their grasp. It makes me happy to see that he os willing to separate and maybe my kids wont be as indoctrinated as I had feared.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jan 18, 2019 0:18:49 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Work dude needed help today with some stuff. Shared a cube with him for most of the day. Gahhhh! Hes so pretty [img src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wink.png" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png" alt=" " class="smile"] a distraction from my shit show life is a bit nice. Every time you say something like this, it reminds me of the TV series "Seconds from Disaster." Seriously don't engage with this. Don't give up your moral high ground.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 18, 2019 0:32:51 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Work dude needed help today with some stuff. Shared a cube with him for most of the day. Gahhhh! Hes so pretty [img src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wink.png" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png" alt=" " class="smile"] a distraction from my shit show life is a bit nice. Every time you say something like this, it reminds me of the TV series "Seconds from Disaster." Seriously don't engage with this. Don't give up your moral high ground. Work dude is pretty, but not worth dealing with actual shit for ironically, telling you all that he is pretty helps to lessen his appeal IRL.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 18, 2019 0:40:57 GMT -5
Every time you say something like this, it reminds me of the TV series "Seconds from Disaster." Seriously don't engage with this. Don't give up your moral high ground. Work dude is pretty, but not worth dealing with actual shit for ironically, telling you all that he is pretty helps to lessen his appeal IRL. My favorite advice columnist (Carolyn Hax) likes to say when married or committed people write in about crushes is to imagine them on the toilet or walking by the full trash can yet again. Lol
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jan 18, 2019 9:17:42 GMT -5
While I know some divorced couples who did still roommate together, I don't think your STBX would be very willing with that. I know one lady who lived with her ex and new guy who lived together for several years. I also don't think either of you would be happy with an open relationship. Although, it could be fun explaining it to the church.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jan 18, 2019 9:28:23 GMT -5
The issue is that no matter how his behavior has changed, your relationship has been damaged. Do you want a loveless marriage? Just because he does a few chores and has stopped being an a**hole? He's making conscious steps to being a better human. I fully support it. Our kids need an awesome dad, so I am happy to support his changes and growth for their sakes. Can H be my roommate who raises kids with me, but we can have side interests too? That's probably too much to hope for. Actually, from the church side, the roommate thing happens a lot to maintain the perception of a marriage to avoid divorce. I understand that you’re not concerned about the perception of a divorce. If you two can do the roommates thing just for your kids while maintaining sanity, it could be an interesting idea to entertain.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 18, 2019 10:30:34 GMT -5
I think in this life you do what works for you, and as long as it doesn’t hurt them the rest of the world can pound sand.
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