Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 19, 2018 11:53:59 GMT -5
I'm with deminmaine . I'll uncross my arms and de-arch my eyebrow after Kim Jong Un actually concedes something. It's well known that NK has a cultural obsession with the US, seeing it as "the world's other superpower" besides themselves. Pres. Kim Jong in particular seems to crave validation of NK's "superpower" status. Hence not only does the US's coming to the table bode well for e.g. easing of sanctions, I'm sure it's internally perceived as an invitation to the Big Leagues. "Behold. The President of the United States, leader of the second most powerful nation on Earth, coming to us with terms of peace." Now... does this mean Kim Jong is categorically insincere in his desire for peace? Is there no hope? I wouldn't go that far. Pres. Trump might actually turn out to be quite the asset. He knows how to make people feel important. He knows how to persuade them they're getting a good deal. He knows how to leverage a man's ego to his benefit. Perhaps he's just the man to convince Pres. Kim Jong that greater prestige and power lies elsewhere from acquisition of military power. I can imagine televisions across NK broadcasting Pres. Trump's boasts, "Pres. Kim Jong Un and I just signed a great deal. He's a great man. He's going to disarm, and we're going to do a lot of business with him. The North Koreans have so much they can offer the world." and Kim Jong actually complying with supervised disarmament in order to preserve such an accomplishment. Not altogether likely, all things considered, but possible. Hence, let's be optimistic. We were cautiously optimistic for the Iran deal, were we not? Sure, we can be optimistic.
Maybe Kim Jong will be diplomatic and not call Trump a feeble old man. Maybe Trump will be diplomatic and not threaten to use his 'very big' nukes.
It can happen.
There's that too, isn't there?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 19, 2018 13:10:39 GMT -5
Sure, we can be optimistic.
Maybe Kim Jong will be diplomatic and not call Trump a feeble old man. Maybe Trump will be diplomatic and not threaten to use his 'very big' nukes.
It can happen.
There's that too, isn't there? I would like to think both of them can suck it up and behave like dignified, grown men - that seems like little enough to ask - but with those two, it will be a struggle.
Hopefully their handlers can keep them under control, and someone takes tells Trump his phone won't work in NK, so we'll place it in this suitcase over here until you get home....
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 19, 2018 16:18:00 GMT -5
There's that too, isn't there? I would like to think both of them can suck it up and behave like dignified, grown men - that seems like little enough to ask - but with those two, it will be a struggle.
Hopefully their handlers can keep them under control, and someone takes tells Trump his phone won't work in NK, so we'll place it in this suitcase over here until you get home....
Which ever country may host the two kids' play date should tell them to leave their pacifiers at home too.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 21, 2018 12:35:16 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 21, 2018 12:41:19 GMT -5
One of the persistent problems of leftist politicians is that they not only fail to understand that the credible threat of force is effective, they're so fucking constipated about the unfairness and injustice of Western Civilization based upon the fantasy they've constructed to discredit the West, and in particular the United States, as a pretext for dismantling America to pave the way for their glorious global socialist new world order, that they can't come up with a scenario in which the threat or use of force is even justified by the United States.
They just barely-- and I mean by the hairs on their chiny chin chins-- stepped back from the ledge after 9/11 from blaming America and having a giant national fucking workshop to figure out how we caused it, why they hate us, and jamming up the response to that.
It is this kind of thing right here- THIS event-- this is why we ought to bow each night in our shrines to Donald Trump, light candles, and burn insense in thanks and praise to him for beating Hillary.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 21, 2018 12:54:40 GMT -5
And then there is reality (Kim) said North Korea has reached the level where it no longer needs underground testing or test-launching of ICBMs, and added that it would close its nuclear testing facility at Punggye-ri, which was already believed to have been rendered unusable due to tunnel collapses after the North's test of its most powerful bomb to date last year. link
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 21, 2018 13:23:51 GMT -5
So if peace does come to Korea, What is you excuse going to be, why it happened? define "peace". if you mean that the Korean war ends, that would be one sort of "peace". if you mean a verifiable (presumably UN) program to certify them nuclear free, that is another.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 21, 2018 13:53:53 GMT -5
And then there is reality (Kim) said North Korea has reached the level where it no longer needs underground testing or test-launching of ICBMs, and added that it would close its nuclear testing facility at Punggye-ri, which was already believed to have been rendered unusable due to tunnel collapses after the North's test of its most powerful bomb to date last year. link but not quite so worthy of large bolded capital letters, is it
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Apr 21, 2018 14:25:11 GMT -5
From Bill's link....
And this....
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 21, 2018 15:18:22 GMT -5
I found this idea interesting: Josh Pollack, senior research associate at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey, said the news was Kim's way of announcing his country is a fully paid-up member of the nuclear club.
"They have wanted to be seen as an arrived nuclear power for a while and one thing that the other nuclear powers don't do is test, with the exception of India and Pakistan, no one has done it since World War II, so it's a sign of immaturity to test and they're saying: 'We're technically mature now, so we don't need to (test) anymore.'
"They're not giving anything up, they're keeping (their weapons) and that's the message. It was wrapped in this seeming concession, but it's not really a concession. (If) they can decide to test after all, they can just start doing it again." link Makes sense to me. Kim has declared that North Korea is now a nuclear power the same as the United States. Therefore, he will be meeting with a fellow head of a nuclear power in President Trump as an equal.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 21, 2018 16:00:04 GMT -5
One of the persistent problems of leftist politicians is that they not only fail to understand that the credible threat of force is effective, they're so fucking constipated about the unfairness and injustice of Western Civilization based upon the fantasy they've constructed to discredit the West, and in particular the United States, as a pretext for dismantling America to pave the way for their glorious global socialist new world order, that they can't come up with a scenario in which the threat or use of force is even justified by the United States. They just barely-- and I mean by the hairs on their chiny chin chins-- stepped back from the ledge after 9/11 from blaming America and having a giant national fucking workshop to figure out how we caused it, why they hate us, and jamming up the response to that. It is this kind of thing right here- THIS event-- this is why we ought to bow each night in our shrines to Donald Trump, light candles, and burn insense in thanks and praise to him for beating Hillary.You have a shrine to Donald Trump? That's pretty messed up.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 21, 2018 16:00:08 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 21, 2018 16:07:31 GMT -5
not familiar with the term, Tennesseer. origins? meaning?
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steff
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Post by steff on Apr 21, 2018 16:07:53 GMT -5
You mean North Korea saber rattled and then backed down...like they always do? How unsurprising.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 21, 2018 16:09:04 GMT -5
One of the persistent problems of leftist politicians is that they not only fail to understand that the credible threat of force is effective, they're so fucking constipated about the unfairness and injustice of Western Civilization based upon the fantasy they've constructed to discredit the West, and in particular the United States, as a pretext for dismantling America to pave the way for their glorious global socialist new world order, that they can't come up with a scenario in which the threat or use of force is even justified by the United States. They just barely-- and I mean by the hairs on their chiny chin chins-- stepped back from the ledge after 9/11 from blaming America and having a giant national fucking workshop to figure out how we caused it, why they hate us, and jamming up the response to that. It is this kind of thing right here- THIS event-- this is why we ought to bow each night in our shrines to Donald Trump, light candles, and burn insense in thanks and praise to him for beating Hillary.You have a shrine to Donald Trump? That's pretty messed up. i kinda wish they WOULD burn their insense. instead, they seem to be ruled by it.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 21, 2018 16:10:40 GMT -5
not familiar with the term, Tennesseer . origins? meaning? I think they are watching the events in Syria and gaining a different understanding. Syria is not launching nuclear-capable ICBMs over the territory of our allies, over our fleet, and in the direction of our West Coast. I get that this is a tough one for pretzel people-- my new name for people who are twisting themselves into pretzels to see anything other than what's actually happening-- but this is a geopolitical earthquake. And the shift in the geopolitical tectonic plates is just beginning.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 21, 2018 16:10:55 GMT -5
You DO realize that North Korea has agreed to this twice before and failed to keep their word, correct?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 21, 2018 16:22:02 GMT -5
You DO realize that North Korea has agreed to this twice before and failed to keep their word, correct? I think it is important to continue to point out that North Korea has not agreed to what AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP is claiming they agreed.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 21, 2018 16:24:40 GMT -5
You DO realize that North Korea has agreed to this twice before and failed to keep their word, correct? I think it is important to continue to point out that North Korea has not agreed to what AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP is claiming they agreed. Well, that's a given. I just went to the Conservative Treehouse website, and I've never seen so much bull$hit in my life.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 21, 2018 16:28:20 GMT -5
I think it is important to continue to point out that North Korea has not agreed to what AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP is claiming they agreed. Well, that's a given. I just went to the Conservative Treehouse website, and I've never seen so much bull$hit in my life. yes. if bullshit were bitcoin, that would be the place to mine it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 21, 2018 16:35:59 GMT -5
You DO realize that North Korea has agreed to this twice before and failed to keep their word, correct? Nine times in total since 1985, actually. But this could be lucky number 10.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 21, 2018 17:01:16 GMT -5
You DO realize that North Korea has agreed to this twice before and failed to keep their word, correct? Nine times in total since 1985, actually. But this could be lucky number 10. They have shut down a test site (which is apparently no longer usable). They have stopped nuclear testing. They have stopped missile testing. But remember Trump and "I didnt say when" missiles would fly? Kim: "I didn't say for how long" we wouldn't test.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 21, 2018 18:39:07 GMT -5
Nine times in total since 1985, actually. But this could be lucky number 10. They have shut down a test site (which is apparently no longer usable). They have stopped nuclear testing. They have stopped missile testing. But remember Trump and "I didnt say when" missiles would fly? Kim: "I didn't say for how long" we wouldn't test. This thread is drowning in cynicism, and I'd like to be optimistic. How about this?: NK disarmament is not as hopeless as, say, peace between Israel and Palestine. There you have hatred between nations that can be traced back thousands of years. Every time their leaders shake hands over a peace agreement, I'm sitting there thinking, "Well, 12 people on board, just 12 million to go." But Kim Jong Un, as far as I know, has complete dictatorial power in NK. If only he can be convinced to disarm, by flattery, reason, financial incentives, his face being carved into Mt. Rushmore II beside Pres. Trump's, etc., it very well might happen. Now... it might turn out to be 1945 Japan, with the generals all on board to run a sword through dear leader before he agrees to American terms, but assuming there's no coup, it's just one man. Who happens to be particularly amenable to flattery. Not particularly riveted to principles. It could happen. The possibility isn't so remote that there's no hope.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 21, 2018 19:19:56 GMT -5
The DMZ between North and South Korea was created 65 years ago. With a few very minor exceptions, no problem. Nations have had atomic and nuclear-capability for even longer without them being used. Why does North Korea have to disarm?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 22, 2018 8:02:37 GMT -5
The DMZ between North and South Korea was created 65 years ago. With a few very minor exceptions, no problem. Nations have had atomic and nuclear-capability for even longer without them being used. Why does North Korea have to disarm? The same reason as Iran. We don't trust them.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 22, 2018 8:32:26 GMT -5
The DMZ between North and South Korea was created 65 years ago. With a few very minor exceptions, no problem. Nations have had atomic and nuclear-capability for even longer without them being used. Why does North Korea have to disarm? The same reason as Iran. We don't trust them. They don't trust us, therefore ...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 22, 2018 13:55:54 GMT -5
I wish Paul was right, and I would give Trump credit for his foreign policy. However, Paul's statement is not true. If it becomes true in the future, I will happily celebrate.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 22, 2018 17:14:22 GMT -5
Let us not forget the original title of this thread begun April 17:
'MAGA: Official End To Korean War Planned For Next Week'
The clock is ticking.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 22, 2018 18:29:18 GMT -5
Hmmm.... Trump says North Korea agreed to denuclearize. It hasn't.WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — President Donald Trump on Sunday claimed North Korea has agreed to "denuclearization" before his potential meeting with Kim Jong Un. But that's not the case. North Korea said Friday it would suspend nuclear tests and intercontinental ballistic missile launches ahead of summits with the U.S. and South Korea. Kim also said a nuclear test site would be closed and "dismantled" now that the country has learned how to make nuclear weapons and mount warheads on ballistic rockets. But the North has stopped short of saying it has any intention of abandoning its nuclear arsenal, with Kim making clear that nukes remain a "treasured sword." Trump nonetheless tweeted Sunday that the North has "agreed to denuclearization (so great for World), site closure, & no more testing!" Being committed to the concept of denuclearization, however, is not the same as agreeing to it, as Trump claims. Complete article here: Trump says North Korea agreed to denuclearize. It hasn't.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 22, 2018 23:12:16 GMT -5
Let us not forget the original title of this thread begun April 17: 'MAGA: Official End To Korean War Planned For Next Week'The clock is ticking. we can bury their nuclear arsenal alongside Hillary.
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