AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 17, 2018 17:03:35 GMT -5
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 18, 2018 7:26:25 GMT -5
Actually, it was apparently Pompeo who carried Trump's water on this so far.
There's about 10,000 ways Trump can still fuck this up.
My money is that he will find at least five of those ways, and we'll be back to teetering on the edge of nuclear war.
Best bet - shitty tweet.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 18, 2018 8:10:46 GMT -5
So if peace does come to Korea, What is you excuse going to be, why it happened?
Yea, you are going to find 10,000 reasons why Trump has nothing to do with it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Or, if you admit Trump did have something to do with it,, there will be a problem with it!!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 18, 2018 8:15:17 GMT -5
If peace does come to Korea, it will be because Trump had the cojones to call North Korea's bluff.
Something our previous leaders?? have not been able to do!!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 18, 2018 8:46:00 GMT -5
I think the will be in the details of any agreement. South Korea
After Germany, with 34,805 troops, South Korea is the third largest host of US military forces, with 23,468 people on duty at 83 sites.. ..
link What conditions for US troop withdrawal will North Korea ask be part of the peace accord? I think this will be a most interesting part of the negotiations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 8:55:53 GMT -5
Trump will agree to a total withdrawal from S. Korea. Sorry, S. Korea, you are screwed. Trump needs those troops to build his wall and staff his concentration camps.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2018 9:23:03 GMT -5
Didn't NK agree to de-nuke years ago, but did not follow through?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 9:24:08 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 9:26:41 GMT -5
Didn't NK agree to de-nuke years ago, but did not follow through? In exchange for food and fuel, yes. They got the goodies (Hello, Iran deal) but didn't deliver. Trump made it very clear- become the Switzerland of Asia, or die (fire and fury like the world has never seen before). Trump forced the issue. And now the whole world is #winning
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 9:28:42 GMT -5
Trump will agree to a total withdrawal from S. Korea. Sorry, S. Korea, you are screwed. Trump needs those troops to build his wall and staff his concentration camps. Right because this is the obvious conclusion rational people are drawing from this.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 9:32:14 GMT -5
I think the will be in the details of any agreement. South Korea
After Germany, with 34,805 troops, South Korea is the third largest host of US military forces, with 23,468 people on duty at 83 sites.. ..
link What conditions for US troop withdrawal will North Korea ask be part of the peace accord? I think this will be a most interesting part of the negotiations.I I would think that the prerequisite for this would be the complete verifiable denuclearization of North Korea- which means inspectors on the ground with the ability to go anywhere at any time unannounced. The only alternative would be a candid announcement of a shift to push-button foreign policy which acknowledges that North Korea is a proxy for China and that any aggression would clearly and unambiguously result in MAD not only for NK, but for China.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 9:33:32 GMT -5
If peace does come to Korea, it will be because Trump had the cojones to call North Korea's bluff. Something our previous leaders?? have not been able to do!! Without a doubt.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 18, 2018 9:45:27 GMT -5
I think the will be in the details of any agreement. South Korea
After Germany, with 34,805 troops, South Korea is the third largest host of US military forces, with 23,468 people on duty at 83 sites.. ..
link What conditions for US troop withdrawal will North Korea ask be part of the peace accord? I think this will be a most interesting part of the negotiations.I I would think that the prerequisite for this would be the complete verifiable denuclearization of North Korea- which means inspectors on the ground with the ability to go anywhere at any time unannounced. The only alternative would be a candid announcement of a shift to push-button foreign policy which acknowledges that North Korea is a proxy for China and that any aggression would clearly and unambiguously result in MAD not only for NK, but for China. I would think that also. But what we think doesn't really matter. "De-nuke and we will withdraw." "Withdraw and we will de-nuke." What will North Korea accept is what matters.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 9:53:15 GMT -5
I would think that the prerequisite for this would be the complete verifiable denuclearization of North Korea- which means inspectors on the ground with the ability to go anywhere at any time unannounced. The only alternative would be a candid announcement of a shift to push-button foreign policy which acknowledges that North Korea is a proxy for China and that any aggression would clearly and unambiguously result in MAD not only for NK, but for China. I would think that also. But what we think doesn't really matter. "De-nuke and we will withdraw." "Withdraw and we will de-nuke." What will North Korea accept is what matters. De-nuke or you will be destroyed. What matters is what North Korea understands about the new sheriff in town.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 18, 2018 9:57:20 GMT -5
I would think that also. But what we think doesn't really matter. "De-nuke and we will withdraw." "Withdraw and we will de-nuke." What will North Korea accept is what matters. De-nuke or you will be destroyed. What matters is what North Korea understands about the new sheriff in town. Are you and trump willing to see South Korea destroyed too if North Korea refuses to de-nuke, the U.S. attacks, and then NK attacks SK? Because NK will attack SK with all they have.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 18, 2018 10:14:01 GMT -5
I would think that also. But what we think doesn't really matter. "De-nuke and we will withdraw." "Withdraw and we will de-nuke." What will North Korea accept is what matters. De-nuke or you will be destroyed. What matters is what North Korea understands about the new sheriff in town. I think they are watching the events in Syria and gaining a different understanding.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 18, 2018 11:23:43 GMT -5
So if peace does come to Korea, What is you excuse going to be, why it happened? Yea, you are going to find 10,000 reasons why Trump has nothing to do with it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Or, if you admit Trump did have something to do with it,, there will be a problem with it!!! If we manage to get a good treaty with NK during the Trump administration, I will gladly put that in the 'win' column for Trump.
No one would love to see that happen more than me.
I'm just not getting my hopes up - Trump being the wrecking ball president, it will be extremely hard for him to remain diplomatic, presidential and calm for the length of time it takes to negotiate this kind of treaty.
Treaties are always a series of give and takes, and Trump does that dance poorly, usually reverting to nasty name calling tweets at the slightest bump. It would be a real success if he can hold it together.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Apr 18, 2018 11:59:12 GMT -5
Doesn't North Korea have a record of saying/signing/agreeing with one thing - and then continuing on doing what they've been doing? This is the start of North Korea's yearly Sabre Rattling Season.... What happens when NK declares that they've forced the US into an agreement? I'm having a hard time believing Trump is gonna stand by and smile while Kim Il-Jong tells his people Trump caved to NK's superior power, intellect and cunning.
Or what happens when Kim Il-Jong leads everyone down a happy path only to say "No!" thus re-asserting his (and North Korea's) superior power, intellect and cunning by NOT caving to evil rest of the world??
Kim Il-Jong wins either way.
(I haven't been watching China's hand in this... But, I hear they had a little sit down with Kim Il-Jong a couple of months ago.... )
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 12:10:01 GMT -5
De-nuke or you will be destroyed. What matters is what North Korea understands about the new sheriff in town. I think they are watching the events in Syria and gaining a different understanding. Syria is not launching nuclear-capable ICBMs over the territory of our allies, over our fleet, and in the direction of our West Coast. I get that this is a tough one for pretzel people-- my new name for people who are twisting themselves into pretzels to see anything other than what's actually happening-- but this is a geopolitical earthquake. And the shift in the geopolitical tectonic plates is just beginning.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 18, 2018 12:10:13 GMT -5
Doesn't North Korea have a record of saying/signing/agreeing with one thing - and then continuing on doing what they've been doing? This is the start of North Korea's yearly Sabre Rattling Season.... What happens when NK declares that they've forced the US into an agreement? I'm having a hard time believing Trump is gonna stand by and smile while Kim Il-Jong tells his people Trump caved to NK's superior power, intellect and cunning.
Or what happens when Kim Il-Jong leads everyone down a happy path only to say "No!" thus re-asserting his (and North Korea's) superior power, intellect and cunning by NOT caving to evil rest of the world??
Kim Il-Jong wins either way.
(I haven't been watching China's hand in this... But, I hear they had a little sit down with Kim Il-Jong a couple of months ago.... ) I simply would not trust Kim Il-Jong to honor any agreements. Anything trump 'negotiated' would then be meaningless.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 18, 2018 12:10:40 GMT -5
(Hint: The other place to watch is the Middle East and in particular- the rapidly reforming Saudi Arabia)
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 18, 2018 12:13:04 GMT -5
I think they are watching the events in Syria and gaining a different understanding. Syria is not launching nuclear-capable ICBMs over the territory of our allies, over our fleet, and in the direction of our West Coast. I get that this is a tough one for pretzel people-- my new name for people who are twisting themselves into pretzels to see anything other than what's actually happening-- but this is a geopolitical earthquake. And the shift in the geopolitical tectonic plates is just beginning. "Pretzel people". Is that anything like 'fucking assholes' who continually support trump and all the vomit which comes out of his mouth?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 12:43:49 GMT -5
Let’s immediately withdraw all American troops from South Korea and Japan regardless of what happens, South Korea and Japan are fully capable of protecting themselves with their economic output/militaries.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 18, 2018 22:59:46 GMT -5
I think they are watching the events in Syria and gaining a different understanding. Syria is not launching nuclear-capable ICBMs over the territory of our allies, over our fleet, and in the direction of our West Coast. I get that this is a tough one for pretzel people-- my new name for people who are twisting themselves into pretzels to see anything other than what's actually happening-- but this is a geopolitical earthquake. And the shift in the geopolitical tectonic plates is just beginning. It will be interesting.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Apr 18, 2018 23:18:05 GMT -5
Actually, it was apparently Pompeo who carried Trump's water on this so far.
There's about 10,000 ways Trump can still fuck this up.
My money is that he will find at least five of those ways, and we'll be back to teetering on the edge of nuclear war.
Best bet - shitty tweet.
If he actually is able to defuse this thing...will give him all the kudos possible though believe he will be mentioning it on a daily basis till the day he passes...but still when it comes down to crunch time...vote for anyone but him...
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 19, 2018 10:20:42 GMT -5
Syria is not launching nuclear-capable ICBMs over the territory of our allies, over our fleet, and in the direction of our West Coast. I get that this is a tough one for pretzel people-- my new name for people who are twisting themselves into pretzels to see anything other than what's actually happening-- but this is a geopolitical earthquake. And the shift in the geopolitical tectonic plates is just beginning. "Pretzel people". Is that anything like 'fucking assholes' who continually support trump and all the vomit which comes out of his mouth? Ahhh, yes Another descriptive word I can now add to my credit, Deplorable, ignorant, stupid, clueless, f***ing clueless, uneducated, and now, among other descriptive phrases,,, fucking assholes! Thank you so much for a word that I would not ever use in a normal conversation,, But then, I am a Conservative!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 19, 2018 10:37:19 GMT -5
"Pretzel people". Is that anything like 'fucking assholes' who continually support trump and all the vomit which comes out of his mouth? Ahhh, yes Another descriptive word I can now add to my credit, Deplorable, ignorant, stupid, clueless, f***ing clueless, uneducated, and now, among other descriptive phrases,,, fucking assholes! Thank you so much for a word that I would not ever use in a normal conversation,, But then, I am a Conservative! You forgot 'Pretzel People'. It better describes rabid trump supporters who twist realty to justify their own vision of the emporer-in-chief.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 19, 2018 11:09:34 GMT -5
I'm with deminmaine. I'll uncross my arms and de-arch my eyebrow after Kim Jong Un actually concedes something. It's well known that NK has a cultural obsession with the US, seeing it as "the world's other superpower" besides themselves. Pres. Kim Jong in particular seems to crave validation of NK's "superpower" status. Hence not only does the US's coming to the table bode well for e.g. easing of sanctions, I'm sure it's internally perceived as an invitation to the Big Leagues. "Behold. The President of the United States, leader of the second most powerful nation on Earth, coming to us with terms of peace." Now... does this mean Kim Jong is categorically insincere in his desire for peace? Is there no hope? I wouldn't go that far. Pres. Trump might actually turn out to be quite the asset. He knows how to make people feel important. He knows how to persuade them they're getting a good deal. He knows how to leverage a man's ego to his benefit. Perhaps he's just the man to convince Pres. Kim Jong that greater prestige and power lies elsewhere from acquisition of military power. I can imagine televisions across NK broadcasting Pres. Trump's boasts, "Pres. Kim Jong Un and I just signed a great deal. He's a great man. He's going to disarm, and we're going to do a lot of business with him. The North Koreans have so much they can offer the world." and Kim Jong actually complying with supervised disarmament in order to preserve such an accomplishment. Not altogether likely, all things considered, but possible. Hence, let's be optimistic. We were cautiously optimistic for the Iran deal, were we not?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 19, 2018 11:35:49 GMT -5
I see nothing different happening under trump than any other U.S. administration. Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile DiplomacyUpdated: March 2018 For years, the United States and the international community have tried to negotiate an end to North Korea’s nuclear and missile development and its export of ballistic missile technology. Those efforts have been replete with periods of crisis, stalemate, and tentative progress towards denuclearization, and North Korea has long been a key challenge for the global nuclear nonproliferation regime. The United States has pursued a variety of policy responses to the proliferation challenges posed by North Korea, including military cooperation with U.S. allies in the region, wide-ranging sanctions, and non-proliferation mechanisms such as export controls. The United States also engaged in two major diplomatic initiatives to have North Korea abandon its nuclear weapons efforts in return for aid. Complete article here: Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile Diplomacy
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 19, 2018 11:50:18 GMT -5
I'm with deminmaine . I'll uncross my arms and de-arch my eyebrow after Kim Jong Un actually concedes something. It's well known that NK has a cultural obsession with the US, seeing it as "the world's other superpower" besides themselves. Pres. Kim Jong in particular seems to crave validation of NK's "superpower" status. Hence not only does the US's coming to the table bode well for e.g. easing of sanctions, I'm sure it's internally perceived as an invitation to the Big Leagues. "Behold. The President of the United States, leader of the second most powerful nation on Earth, coming to us with terms of peace." Now... does this mean Kim Jong is categorically insincere in his desire for peace? Is there no hope? I wouldn't go that far. Pres. Trump might actually turn out to be quite the asset. He knows how to make people feel important. He knows how to persuade them they're getting a good deal. He knows how to leverage a man's ego to his benefit. Perhaps he's just the man to convince Pres. Kim Jong that greater prestige and power lies elsewhere from acquisition of military power. I can imagine televisions across NK broadcasting Pres. Trump's boasts, "Pres. Kim Jong Un and I just signed a great deal. He's a great man. He's going to disarm, and we're going to do a lot of business with him. The North Koreans have so much they can offer the world." and Kim Jong actually complying with supervised disarmament in order to preserve such an accomplishment. Not altogether likely, all things considered, but possible. Hence, let's be optimistic. We were cautiously optimistic for the Iran deal, were we not? Sure, we can be optimistic.
Maybe Kim Jong will be diplomatic and not call Trump a feeble old man. Maybe Trump will be diplomatic and not threaten to use his 'very big' nukes.
It can happen.
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