Work Dilemma

[moneymaven]

Well, it seems like I am finding myself in yet another dilemma at work.

General background: I have worked in this industry for about a dozen years, and have been with my current company about four years. Company has done well and grown generally. Last year, my boss was unseated after some general discord with the upper echelon and I should have been promoted to that role. Corporation decided not to post the job for internal or external applicants. Someone else internal to the company was chosen who has never done any of the work entailed in the role. Despite that, I've kept focused on the job and doing good work.

New boss realized that I wanted his role and is now very threatened. Since their installment, I have been treated like shit. He has hired staff in my department without so much as a conversation with me, let alone involving me in the process. Has been telling people in the industry I am not doing my job, that I won't be at the company much longer, insisting that my business partners in the industry hold meetings with him offsite to exclude me. Add to that his boss within the corporation has made hostile comments to me about my gender, race and having a family when asked about his offering support to me for other opportunities in the greater organization.

I have now had a series of external contacts relay all of these interesting conversations to me and the stories they share are consistent, so I have good reason to believe they're accurate and this is truly occuring. The industry I work in is highly regulated and we do have a central "whistle blower" hotline option, but I've seen this used and not yield any results. I have a better working relationship with corporate counsel and HR and could have a direct conversation but short of using trigger words like hostile working environment, slander, etc., I don't know that they'll do much.

I have multiple other opportunities that I am in final consideration for with other companies, but this environment has become unbearable. I am prepared to contact counsel in the company outlining this is no longer a good fit and asking for a severance package and peaceful transition of my role to include protection of my reputation and prohibit their continued slander because it really is a small town and small industry. I thought I should throw this out to this YM crowd to flesh it out and consider approaches that I may not be thinking of, or consider unintended consequences of this approach.

I know that no matter what direction I pursue, there will be trade-offs for good and bad. So, what say ye, YM?

[Lizard Queen]

I say that it sounds like you have a really good head on your shoulders.

[bean29]

Idk, my husband is an agent. He had a mid-sized agency with a major US Corp. At one time the company was trying to grow by recruiting their agent’s staff to become independent agents. Some of the staff was trying to represent that they did all the work, not him. Company was also trying to recruit me. His manager repeated some of the representations to me. I was thrown off guard, but just looked at him and said, no one but DH works, nights, weekends or even Fridays, which is when a large majority of the business is transacting. DH then complained to a Corporate Head in an Agents Meeting that he was training Staff and investing $$ in their Development, the Company is urging him to invest more time and $$ in developing staff, and then recruiting said staff out from under him. Corporate response ended up being an apology to the agents and a pledge not to poach their staff away any more. DH’s staff is well paid. They have to be. They are in regular contact with many people that recognize the value of their skills. I would be surprised if upper management is not aware of your contributions. Have you considered Agency. Also go talk to the upper management regarding what is going on. What do you have to lose?

[milee]

Since you have multiple other opportunities you're in final consideration for, pick one, start your new job and don't look back. 

It stinks.  Your boss is a jerk and your company sounds bad.  Unfortunately, there's a difference between jerk behavior and illegal behavior.  With one exception, what you describe is flaming jerk behavior but not illegal.  Your boss' boss telling you he can't support you because of your gender, race and family is illegal.  But can you prove a claim and show a pattern of that type of illegal action?  It's not easy to do, unfortunately.


Accept one of the multiple opportunities you have and move on.  Good luck at your new job. 

[Miss Tequila]

Oh boy, that sounds awful

I would probably do what you are thinking about and go to another company that values my contribution. Your boss is insecure and threatened for a reason. Most likely he isn’t qualified and he knows that you are. If you stay you are just going to help this asshat succeed. I would leave and let him fail

I would also be angry that I got treated like that so I would go up as many levels as needed to make sure the right people were aware of the culture in your department and company. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen

Good luck!!

[moneymaven]

I am upper management. My chair sits in row 2 of the org chart. Further up the line is our regional and corporate team which is where I’d need to go to explain what’s occurring to other management.

[moneymaven]

Feb 21, 2018 3:50:10 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Idk, my husband is an agent. He had a mid-sized agency with a major US Corp. At one time the company was trying to grow by recruiting their agent’s staff to become independent agents. Some of the staff was trying to represent that they did all the work, not him. Company was also trying to recruit me. His manager repeated some of the representations to me. I was thrown off guard, but just looked at him and said, no one but DH works, nights, weekends or even Fridays, which is when a large majority of the business is transacting. DH then complained to a Corporate Head in an Agents Meeting that he was training Staff and investing $$ in their Development, the Company is urging him to invest more time and $$ in developing staff, and then recruiting said staff out from under him. Corporate response ended up being an apology to the agents and a pledge not to poach their staff away any more. DH’s staff is well paid. They have to be. They are in regular contact with many people that recognize the value of their skills. I would be surprised if upper management is not aware of your contributions. Have you considered Agency. Also go talk to the upper management regarding what is going on. What do you have to lose?

Was he with a direct writer? I’m on the Agency side but independent.

[bean29]

Yes, he is captive. We have talked to a few independent agencies. He has a 2 year no compete clause, so if we start on independent agency, it has to go in my name or one of my kids names.

[bean29]

I will pm you later, I have to get on my way to work

[alabamagal]

Feb 21, 2018 6:28:17 GMT -5 milee said:

Since you have multiple other opportunities you're in final consideration for, pick one, start your new job and don't look back. 

It stinks.  Your boss is a jerk and your company sounds bad.  Unfortunately, there's a difference between jerk behavior and illegal behavior.  With one exception, what you describe is flaming jerk behavior but not illegal.  Your boss' boss telling you he can't support you because of your gender, race and family is illegal.  But can you prove a claim and show a pattern of that type of illegal action?  It's not easy to do, unfortunately.


Accept one of the multiple opportunities you have and move on.  Good luck at your new job. 

Best advice is to just get out.  If there are other opportunities, move on.

Proving discrimination is tough, and usually requires multiple instances of discrimination, not one person being treated badly (but I am not a lawyer).  If you decide to take the legal route, everyone in the industry will find out, and it will make it tough to get another job.

[alabamagal]

And contacting "company counsel" would be a bad thing unless you have a lawyer.  Company counsel works for the company, as does HR.  

[busymom]

Sadly, I agree with everyone here.  When it's your direct supervisor who feels threatened by you, even for no good reason than he/she is worried you might someday take their job, all they are going to do is sabotage you.  It's time to go to greener pastures elsewhere.  (BTDT)

[Apple]

Take one of the other opportunities to get out as soon as it becomes available.

Don't go to management and seek a severance package unless you can prove, without doubt, what has been happening.  They will turn it into "he said/she said", and you will be the loser in a long, drawn-out process where every move you make will be heavily scrutinized, with any little slip up (no matter how minor), becoming a reason to fire you.  And a slip up can be as minor as not replying to an unimportant email right away, a quick "hello, how was your weekend?" conversation with anyone, not having 80% of your vacation scheduled by January 1st, even though it's a "rule" that has never once been enforced by the company, but is hidden somewhere in the company policy.

Even if you have solid proof, do not expect anything to go your way.

If you have vacation time on the books, use it to get some time away as much as you can.  Do not spend your lunch break in the office, but go for a walk, go to your car and listen to movie, go to the gym if there is one nearby, but physically get out of that space.

Good luck.  I hope one of these other opportunities happens for you soon!

[MJ2.0]

it makes me really sad to read this thread and the responses. This is how the assholes keep being assholes - because we all just don't say anything and then leave. Nothing will ever change.

[alabamagal]

Well I think most assholes get brought down at some point. It may take a while, but it will happen. A manager who continually had people leave is a big red flag.

I once had a coworker who would lie about things to make him look better not big things usually. And a lot of upper management thought he was great and moving up. His lies were things like saying he would update cost forecasts or schedules and then he wouldn't do it and would make others look bad. It took a couple years but he eventually got fired at a company that rarely fired anyone. Many were shocked, I wasn't.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Feb 21, 2018 13:24:07 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

it makes me really sad to read this thread and the responses. This is how the assholes keep being assholes - because we all just don't say anything and then leave. Nothing will ever change.

Unfortunately this isn't the movies where good triumphs and gets rewarded.   You really do have to weigh the principal against your own interests.   There is someone I worked with who has violated numerous codes but since the research compliance office is in bed with her nothing gets done about it.

The only other option is to take it all the way to NIH which is the nuclear option.  If you lose, that's it you people aren't going to want to work with you, even if you were right.  Plus since the person is left in a position of power after you lose it becomes open season.

You have to have considerable political clout to be able to weather the backlash.  The only person there that could do that was my old boss.  He got so tired of fighting the system he moved to the University of Iowa.

Sucks but that's how the real world works.  I would love to always stand up for truth, justice and the American way but I got bills I have to pay.

[Deleted]

Feb 21, 2018 13:24:07 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

it makes me really sad to read this thread and the responses. This is how the assholes keep being assholes - because we all just don't say anything and then leave. Nothing will ever change.

I agree with this- I've personally left places where I couldn't fight the dirty politics, but I hate to see that happen with no repercussions for the people behind them.

Typically I'm not in favor of airing dirty laundry in an exit interview but would this be a place to tell HR what this manager is doing, as calmly and factually as possible?  They're unlikely to do much in response other than make sympathetic noises but maybe the OP can plant some seeds of doubt.  (Or will HR go back to the manager and repeat everything the OP said?)

[Apple]

Feb 21, 2018 13:24:07 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

it makes me really sad to read this thread and the responses. This is how the assholes keep being assholes - because we all just don't say anything and then leave. Nothing will ever change.

It is an unfortunate reality.  I don't disagree with saying anything, but the reality is that "you" will be the one punished first, lonf before karma bites the wrong-doer in the ass (and karma is not likely to come in the form of management punishment).  So, first step is to protect yourself, unless you are in a situation where you can afford to lose your job, and go into it with eyes wide open, not an idealistic view of what is to come.

Once out, then make contact with the former management to explain the issues, when it can no longer affect you and your lively hood, if you feel that doing so may allow for change for someone else.

Having been there, done that, with serious proof, and still having to deal with a year of aggressive attempts to get me to mess up so they could hammer me, I highly encourage escape before anything else, if at all possible.  Even had I "been victorious" and things been handled as they should have been, I would not want to still be in that old environment, as that one person had created a very toxic pool, sucking others in.

And, as far as people having your back, agreeing with your side, seeing the issues first hand, witnessing events, when the moment comes when they have to do more than gossip about it, nearly every last one will clam up and "stay neutral", even if all they had to do to "save" you was tell the truth.  They won't.  You can only depend/rely on yourself.

[souldoubt]

Feb 21, 2018 13:24:07 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

it makes me really sad to read this thread and the responses. This is how the assholes keep being assholes - because we all just don't say anything and then leave. Nothing will ever change.

True but it's also a situation where some people simply choose to move on with their lives.  Perhaps mm wants to fight it and more power to her but frankly in that situation I'd choose move on especially with other opportunities on the table.  To me it's not worth being miserable and stressed out which impacts not only my work life but also my home life.  I know people that have been in situations where they've gotten railroaded at work and the majority found another job while a few spoke up at their exit interviews.  All of us have to decide what hill it is we're willing to die on so to speak. 

[MJ2.0]

I understand individual reasons for not wanting to pursue action, believe me.  And I'm not saying I'd have the fortitude to pursue action either... I'm just expressing that we have tools in place to combat this yet there is so much backlash for the reporter that they go unused.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

It's tempting to think up all sorts of scenarios where telling someone what is going on ends up with you being vindicated and your manager being exposed for the liar he is, but the reality is that that almost never happens. Whistleblower policies and laws are cosmetic, at best.

Move on and let your future success be the best possible revenge.

[sesfw]

If you decide to take the legal route, everyone in the industry will find out, and it will make it tough to get another job.




Unfortunately this is the way the real world works.  Even if you are 100% vindicated to your peers and higher ups ....... someone somewhere will keep it in the back of their minds.  Very sad things like this happen.

I'm with others ...... time to get out and on to greener pastures.  Maybe someday the jerk will get bit by karma and show up on your door step wanting a job.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Rukh O'Rorke and @phoenix84 might be able to share their experiences...

[Jaguar]

That's Phoenix84

[Miss Tequila]

Feb 21, 2018 7:50:24 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

I am upper management. My chair sits in row 2 of the org chart. Further up the line is our regional and corporate team which is where I’d need to go to explain what’s occurring to other management.

I was confused when you said your boss’ boss. In my organization, the boss to the second row is the president. Is that who is treating you like shit? If so, tone at the top sucks and I would leave sooner rather than later

[moneymaven]

Feb 21, 2018 20:38:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Feb 21, 2018 7:50:24 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

I am upper management. My chair sits in row 2 of the org chart. Further up the line is our regional and corporate team which is where I’d need to go to explain what’s occurring to other management.

I was confused when you said your boss’ boss. In my organization, the boss to the second row is the president. Is that who is treating you like shit? If so, tone at the top sucks and I would leave sooner rather than later

Sorry, I should have been more clear. My boss runs the local shop, he reports to the regional president. So in the local office, I am row 2. Corporate org chart sprawls.

I got offer one today. I’m going to leverage that to push the others ahead and choose.

[moneymaven]

I do have a bonus pending payment the end of the quarter which is something I also want to protect. Exit interview won’t likely yield any changes. I do want to protect my financial interests.

[moneymaven]

Feb 21, 2018 11:22:26 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

And contacting "company counsel" would be a bad thing unless you have a lawyer.  Company counsel works for the company, as does HR.  

I do have a lawyer. Based on what I’ve provided in writing and otherwise, he’s confident in my case. I don’t want to have a case so much as pursue protection of my pending bonus and my reputation.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Feb 21, 2018 18:36:12 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Rukh O'Rorke and @phoenix84 might be able to share their experiences...

My opinion is this isn't worth risking a fight. Jump on the first offer you get and the maybe consider the second if it's substantially better.

But leave. Quickly. With a job if at all possible.

[moneymaven]

Feb 21, 2018 21:17:04 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Feb 21, 2018 18:36:12 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Rukh O'Rorke and @phoenix84 might be able to share their experiences...

My opinion is this isn't worth risking a fight. Jump on the first offer you get and the maybe consider the second if it's substantially better.

But leave. Quickly. With a job if at all possible.

I don’t want to fight and I don’t want to cause a scene, in my office or in the industry. I just want to protect my $$ and my name. There are some other facts that I don’t want to outline here for privacy sake but I have so much in my back pocket (fleshed out with my attorney) that could sink them big time. I’m sitting in some positional power at the moment to leverage a peaceful transition while protecting myself and my money. There are some situations that they cannot handle with me absent so if presented in a context around some of their needs, I think I can appeal to a solution that effectively manages my needs and theirs and leaves me in a professional and favorable light. I don’t want to drop the proverbial hammer and threaten. I just don’t think that ever works well.