Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2018 13:09:08 GMT -5
Not good. Third-grader pulls trigger on Maplewood cop’s gun, firing a shotNobody was injured Monday afternoon when a student at the Harmony Learning Center fired a school liaison officer’s gun, Maplewood police say. The officer was sitting on a bench talking with some students about 1:45 p.m., when a third-grader pressed the trigger of the officer’s holstered weapon, according to a news release issued by the Maplewood Police Department. The gun discharged through the bottom of the holster and a bullet struck the floor, the news release said. The officer, who was unaware that the child was touching his gun, was wearing a department-approved, Level 3 security holster, the news release said. The holster is equipped with a trigger guard designed to prevent a gun from being fired while in it. The department is reviewing this holster model and the circumstances surrounding the incident. link
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 24, 2018 13:09:39 GMT -5
"I am correctly assuming"
Bawhahahahaha
You are assuming. You aren't correct until you can prove it.
Who knows what these assholes are thinking?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 24, 2018 13:38:25 GMT -5
At an hourlong meeting on school safety with 10 state and local officials, Trump said armed teachers with an aptitude for guns would deter would-be shooters. “A gun-free zone to a killer, or somebody that wants to be a killer, that’s like going in for the ice cream,” Trump said. “They’re not going to walk into a school if 20 percent of the teachers have guns.”
www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns/u-s-gun-lobby-slams-anti-gun-elites-after-florida-school-massacre-idUSKCN1G61KZOf course they would! They're already suicidal and prepared to die. Why wouldn't they? Your president is a moron. "I'm suicidal, but I won't walk into a school because I might get shot"?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 24, 2018 14:44:39 GMT -5
Another piece is that almost always the person isn't walking into a school, they are walking into their school. Kids tend to know a lot about their environment. For example, if you want to know who is sleeping with who on a school facility, don't bother asking the adults, ask the kids. If someone wants to shoot up their school, they will know how to accomplish what they wish to do without running into the part of the staff that is armed.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Feb 24, 2018 16:23:33 GMT -5
Teachers are not policemen. And if teachers are supposed to be police officers in school, and armed, I am of the opinion that not only should they receive pay for being a teacher, they should also be paid whatever is the median pay in their state for being a police officer and increase the wages as long as they are still trained and carry a firearm in school. Pay for the protection. They also have to be social workers. Try to teach children who come from all sort of deplorable home life, and protect them. Oh, and get no respect while they try and balance all of the above.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 24, 2018 16:29:44 GMT -5
And if teachers are supposed to be police officers in school, and armed, I am of the opinion that not only should they receive pay for being a teacher, they should also be paid whatever is the median pay in their state for being a police officer and increase the wages as long as they are still trained and carry a firearm in school. Pay for the protection. They also have to be social workers. Try to teach children who come from all sort of deplorable home life, and protect them. Oh, and get no respect while they try and balance all of the above. "if continued to walk to the class room...yes, physically stopped by any way possible...get help from others..."They also have to be trained and physically fit enough to take down and physically restrain adults.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Feb 24, 2018 16:48:15 GMT -5
Let's recap:
Teachers need to be certified in self defense, trained to carry a gun, related to all students given their situation....oh and teach.
Problem solved!
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 24, 2018 16:49:05 GMT -5
At an hourlong meeting on school safety with 10 state and local officials, Trump said armed teachers with an aptitude for guns would deter would-be shooters. “A gun-free zone to a killer, or somebody that wants to be a killer, that’s like going in for the ice cream,” Trump said. “They’re not going to walk into a school if 20 percent of the teachers have guns.”
www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns/u-s-gun-lobby-slams-anti-gun-elites-after-florida-school-massacre-idUSKCN1G61KZOf course they would! They're already suicidal and prepared to die. Why wouldn't they? Your president is a moron. "I'm suicidal, but I won't walk into a school because I might get shot"? "Your president is a moron."..........
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2018 17:12:05 GMT -5
And if teachers are supposed to be police officers in school, and armed, I am of the opinion that not only should they receive pay for being a teacher, they should also be paid whatever is the median pay in their state for being a police officer and increase the wages as long as they are still trained and carry a firearm in school. Pay for the protection. They also have to be social workers. Try to teach children who come from all sort of deplorable home life, and protect them. Oh, and get no respect while they try and balance all of the above. Totally agree. A teacher's pay is deplorable as it is today. How much are school districts, cities, states, and the federal government willing to pay teachers to now do all three jobs: teacher, social worker, police officer.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 24, 2018 18:51:35 GMT -5
They also have to be social workers. Try to teach children who come from all sort of deplorable home life, and protect them. Oh, and get no respect while they try and balance all of the above. Totally agree. A teacher's pay is deplorable as it is today. How much are school districts, cities, states, and the federal government willing to pay teachers to now do all three jobs: teacher, social worker, police officer. Right now, unless in a few States who allow licensed folks to be on campus...even if one has a license to carry...once time to enter school grounds...they have to leave weapons in car, trunk, glove dept, under seat...wherever. So many teachers have come out not wanting to be part of or have anything to do with carrying a weapon...and for them they should not have to, no one is asking them to. However...what about those who are licensed...have possible gone through training and want to be able to carry weapons while they teach or do whatever they do on campus..custodial work...administrate... not as a Police force to seek out perps on school grounds...just as a way to protect their students, them selves..possible offering other classes, students some protection as thev mutally bunker up...combining class rooms possible.. No one beyond say Principals and a few others are only ones knowing of these folks being armed unless teacher or employee lets another employee know that they are armed just in case ...but also not expecting them to act as police in rooting out perps...that job belongs to the professionals...Police and special kill squads...swat for example. They are the trained, weaponed correctly and also armored up... I m not excusing the guard but that is what I believe happened with the officer who did not engage the murderer in the school...knowing his chances of coming out alive was slim to none being armed with a hand gun vs a military rifle...he opted out of engaging. Yes he took the oath to protect and all but also didn't want to go "above and beyond". Actually once while over seas on a ambush patrol we encountered the bad guys...we did not engage...they way beyond outnumbered and out gunned us....we let them go, called in artillery on where we thought they were and lived to ambush another day..Lt in charge that day...smart young man...actually a experienced one..made captain the next month.. As far as the armed teacher...by staying with in their bunkered rooms...possible have a over shirt in their desk drawer identifying them as friendlies..they should be safe from friendly fire...these vare rules that would be worked out...possible training by police.. Unlike the Donald who is calling on these armed personnel to act as active professionals in searching out the bad guys...in his mind a cheap way to guard the schools...No, that job has to be left to the professionals and if they do decide to go to full time guards, then they have to be armed correctly..you don't try to fight a gunman with a knife...you also do not try to fight a perp armed with a military style rifle with a hand gun...No matter how it looks, kids would get use to it...
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 24, 2018 19:40:15 GMT -5
Not good. Third-grader pulls trigger on Maplewood cop’s gun, firing a shotNobody was injured Monday afternoon when a student at the Harmony Learning Center fired a school liaison officer’s gun, Maplewood police say. The officer was sitting on a bench talking with some students about 1:45 p.m., when a third-grader pressed the trigger of the officer’s holstered weapon, according to a news release issued by the Maplewood Police Department. The gun discharged through the bottom of the holster and a bullet struck the floor, the news release said. The officer, who was unaware that the child was touching his gun, was wearing a department-approved, Level 3 security holster, the news release said. The holster is equipped with a trigger guard designed to prevent a gun from being fired while in it. The department is reviewing this holster model and the circumstances surrounding the incident. linkHere is the funny part, the anti gun crowd will call this a school shooting.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2018 20:00:33 GMT -5
Not good. Third-grader pulls trigger on Maplewood cop’s gun, firing a shotNobody was injured Monday afternoon when a student at the Harmony Learning Center fired a school liaison officer’s gun, Maplewood police say. The officer was sitting on a bench talking with some students about 1:45 p.m., when a third-grader pressed the trigger of the officer’s holstered weapon, according to a news release issued by the Maplewood Police Department. The gun discharged through the bottom of the holster and a bullet struck the floor, the news release said. The officer, who was unaware that the child was touching his gun, was wearing a department-approved, Level 3 security holster, the news release said. The holster is equipped with a trigger guard designed to prevent a gun from being fired while in it. The department is reviewing this holster model and the circumstances surrounding the incident. linkHere is the funny part, the anti gun crowd will call this a school shooting. I didn't. Nor do I want nor care you might have small firearms or hunting rifles. But feel free to speak for all of the anti gun crowd.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2018 21:13:30 GMT -5
Even Maria Von Trapp has now received training.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 22:11:19 GMT -5
Yet gun free zones seem to be the target of choice to be covered endlessly by the media with much hysteria. That's helps make it an attractant. We have more mass shootings than anyone they say, but never fill in with the rest of the story that most mass shooting as listed by the FBI, is a shooting with four or more people killed in the situations you described. Sells commercials. We have a different opinion on this. I don't think gun free zones are the issue otherwise people would be running to the local or state courthouse to shoot people up in a courtroom. There have been school shootings since the 1700s. The coverage may inspire borderline copycats, but I disagree with the belief that gun free or gun allowed makes any difference whatsoever.
The current media fixation is on seemingly random shootings and some people read a lot on that because they are concerned they could be affected. That's why stories of people shooting up the family or even the local bbq get less press.
That doesn't happen because a courthouse is NOT a "gun free zone". It's loaded with armed police officers. The local school which might have one SRO (if they even have that), of the local park with no police presence, or the local fast food joint that stupidly declares itself a GFZ... they are quite a difference.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 14:40:17 GMT -5
At an hourlong meeting on school safety with 10 state and local officials, Trump said armed teachers with an aptitude for guns would deter would-be shooters. “A gun-free zone to a killer, or somebody that wants to be a killer, that’s like going in for the ice cream,” Trump said. “They’re not going to walk into a school if 20 percent of the teachers have guns.”
www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns/u-s-gun-lobby-slams-anti-gun-elites-after-florida-school-massacre-idUSKCN1G61KZOf course they would! They're already suicidal and prepared to die. Why wouldn't they? Your president is a moron. "I'm suicidal, but I won't walk into a school because I might get shot"? They prefer the gun free zones for the reason that they have a delay, before interdiction of their activities. They can kill more without interference from someone capable. Has little to do with how it ends vs how long before it ends. I question who's the moron. Those who equate gun free zones with safety ? Or those who understand mental illness. Last time I checked, the bullets flew right through the piece of paper I use for targets. Even if they say "gun free zone" on them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 14:45:05 GMT -5
Not really. Have you forgotten when we had military people go crazy and shoot up bases? They shot up the base because they were military in spite of the guns. Look at the reality of the situation. School shooting are mostly committed by students.
You are also assuming incorrectly IMO that some of these shooters would care if they got shot and killed.
^^This^^ Most school shooters are already disturbed, depressed and suicidal. They are fully prepared to die, and many commit suicide after the fact. They want to bring as many others as they can with them. Dying alone in your room at home doesn't get your name in the papers. Knowing there are armed teachers at the schools will not deter them.Guess again. They prefer the gun free zones for the reason that they have a delay, before interdiction of their activities. They can kill more without interference from someone capable. Has little to do with how it ends vs how long before it ends. I question who's the moron. Those who equate gun free zones with safety ? Or those who understand mental illness. Last time I checked, the bullets flew right through the piece of paper I use for targets. Even if they say "gun free zone" on them. Arm the staff.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2018 14:51:06 GMT -5
I agree. We have decided in this country that guns be good. We will have to have a few kiddos killed off - or not - before we determine that arming more school staff isn't a good idea - or is.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 26, 2018 16:49:24 GMT -5
^^This^^ Most school shooters are already disturbed, depressed and suicidal. They are fully prepared to die, and many commit suicide after the fact. They want to bring as many others as they can with them. Dying alone in your room at home doesn't get your name in the papers. Knowing there are armed teachers at the schools will not deter them.Guess again. They prefer the gun free zones for the reason that they have a delay, before interdiction of their activities. They can kill more without interference from someone capable. Has little to do with how it ends vs how long before it ends. I question who's the moron. Those who equate gun free zones with safety ? Or those who understand mental illness. Last time I checked, the bullets flew right through the piece of paper I use for targets. Even if they say "gun free zone" on them. Arm the staff. I disagree. I think the school is the hub of his unhappiness. He knows he can go there and find a very specific group of people - the exact people who ignore him, dismissed him or made fun of him. He can find the teachers who disciplined him and the administration that expelled him. He can embarrass the school that embarrassed him. He can hurt (physically or emotionally) the people that hurt him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 14:04:52 GMT -5
Guess again. They prefer the gun free zones for the reason that they have a delay, before interdiction of their activities. They can kill more without interference from someone capable. Has little to do with how it ends vs how long before it ends. I question who's the moron. Those who equate gun free zones with safety ? Or those who understand mental illness. Last time I checked, the bullets flew right through the piece of paper I use for targets. Even if they say "gun free zone" on them. Arm the staff. I disagree. I think the school is the hub of his unhappiness. He knows he can go there and find a very specific group of people - the exact people who ignore him, dismissed him or made fun of him. He can find the teachers who disciplined him and the administration that expelled him. He can embarrass the school that embarrassed him. He can hurt (physically or emotionally) the people that hurt him. I never said it was the only reason. It just adds to mine. I agree with yours also.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 14:10:53 GMT -5
I agree. We have decided in this country that guns be good.... Decided a long time ago (2nd Amendment). With Supreme Court affirmation of the individual right (2008). Life has risks. Quote; District of Columbia v. Heller, case in which the U.S. Supreme Court on June 26, 2008, held (5-4) that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess firearms independent of service in a state militia and to use firearms for traditionally lawful purposes, including self-defense within the home.
tenthamendmentcenter.com/2015/08/29/the-2nd-amendment-individual-not-collective-rights/
Or in simpler terms, because someone broke the law, you can't remove the rights of those who don't.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 27, 2018 14:34:24 GMT -5
^^This^^ Most school shooters are already disturbed, depressed and suicidal. They are fully prepared to die, and many commit suicide after the fact. They want to bring as many others as they can with them. Dying alone in your room at home doesn't get your name in the papers. Knowing there are armed teachers at the schools will not deter them.Guess again. They prefer the gun free zones for the reason that they have a delay, before interdiction of their activities. They can kill more without interference from someone capable. Has little to do with how it ends vs how long before it ends. I question who's the moron. Those who equate gun free zones with safety ? Or those who understand mental illness. Last time I checked, the bullets flew right through the piece of paper I use for targets. Even if they say "gun free zone" on them. Arm the staff. This is an odd argument I think you've used more than once. Bullets are going to fly through a paper target that says "armed teachers" and "tons of guns zone" as well. So does this mean every idea is a bad idea simply because you can write it on a paper target and shoot bullets through it?
I don't think anyone fully understands mental illness. Its just the current scape goat because way too may people think violent tendencies can be cured by pills. Several of the mass shooters have been under psychiatric care. That should have pointed out the illogic in such a belief. Plus most pych meds have side effects that include making the situation they are treating worse. Its been shown most doctors miss those signs.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 27, 2018 15:15:36 GMT -5
I agree. We have decided in this country that guns be good.... Decided a long time ago (2nd Amendment). ... That change can take place also decided a long time ago (Article 5).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 13:47:43 GMT -5
Guess again. They prefer the gun free zones for the reason that they have a delay, before interdiction of their activities. They can kill more without interference from someone capable. Has little to do with how it ends vs how long before it ends. I question who's the moron. Those who equate gun free zones with safety ? Or those who understand mental illness. Last time I checked, the bullets flew right through the piece of paper I use for targets. Even if they say "gun free zone" on them. Arm the staff. This is an odd argument I think you've used more than once. Bullets are going to fly through a paper target that says "armed teachers" and "tons of guns zone" as well. So does this mean every idea is a bad idea simply because you can write it on a paper target and shoot bullets through it?
I don't think anyone fully understands mental illness. Its just the current scape goat because way too may people think violent tendencies can be cured by pills. Several of the mass shooters have been under psychiatric care. That should have pointed out the illogic in such a belief. Plus most pych meds have side effects that include making the situation they are treating worse. Its been shown most doctors miss those signs.
The point, is time available before interdiction. The ability to kill more before the end of activity, due to off site enforcement. The piece of paper (target) with writing, was a metaphor for the inability of a 'gun free zone law' to stop a criminal mass shooting. It is being continuously proven that it's a bad idea, that creates easy killing zones. Since mental illness is unique to every individual as to it's effects. Your statement (bolded) and what followed, reads as somewhat nonsensical. I have no answer for the broad based premise you present in the second paragraph. "Fully understand" is so subjective that it renders the rest of the paragraph as random statement. You will note that I never said "fully understand", but I would use a simple "understand" in regards to someone that is mentally ill, won't respond in a generally accepted way to certain stimuli. Mentally ill also places no restriction on IQ.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 13:51:37 GMT -5
Decided a long time ago (2nd Amendment). ... That change can take place also decided a long time ago (Article 5). Which agrees with what I always say... We need to apply ourselves to the proper avenue of activity to attain what we wish. If we don't, we're just parrots squawking in a cage of our own making.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 28, 2018 14:13:27 GMT -5
I feel the "gun free zone" debate is a correlation but not a causation. Since the large majority of businesses, schools and churches are gun free then it is only logical that "more" shootings happen in gun free zones just based on the sheer fact they outnumber non-gun free zones. It probably has very little to do with choosing a target because there is no real "choice" in the matter. Your argument falls apart about how arming people will scare shooters away when you consider the fact that mass shootings have happened on military bases which pack way more heat and have way more experienced trained personnel on site than a school, church or nightclub would ever have. www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/04/02/shooting-attacks-military-bases-history/7225403/Here is a mass shooting of police officers. Police officers are highly trained and always carrying. Doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officersIt's like when people claim 95% of people who get root canals get cancer. Considering how many people are in our country that get dental work and how many people get cancer it's not surprising someone was able to somehow link the two. Doesn't actually mean they have anything to do with each other.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 14:26:27 GMT -5
I feel the "gun free zone" debate is a correlation but not a causation. Agreed, makes for a preference. Mental illness doesn't restrict IQ.Since the large majority of businesses, schools and churches are gun free then it is only logical that "more" shootings happen in gun free zones just based on the sheer fact they outnumber non-gun free zones. It probably has very little to do with choosing a target because there is no real "choice" in the matter. There is always a choice. How many after hours, police gathering spots (bars,etc.) are chosen for mass shootings ? Plenty of criminals have an ax to grind with arresting officers. Your argument falls apart about how arming people will scare shooters away Never said it will scare anyone away. That's your premise. These people are more willing than not, to just die at the end of their activity. That interdiction will happen possibly sooner, in school shootings, will make them a less preferable choice when it is known that people will be carrying guns on site. when you consider the fact that mass shootings have happened on military bases which pack way more heat and have way more experienced trained personnel on site than a school, church or nightclub would ever have. Already posted that bases are gun free since 1993, with link. Unarmed soldiers don't stand much of a chance against a well armed shooterwww.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/04/02/shooting-attacks-military-bases-history/7225403/It's like when people claim 95% of people who get root canals get cancer. Considering how many people are in our country that get dental work and how many people get cancer it's not surprising someone was able to somehow link the two. Doesn't actually mean they have anything to do with each other. This goes without saying.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 28, 2018 14:54:25 GMT -5
I am very much in favor of those thumb print locks for guns that register the user to the weapon. The latest shooter's father had all the guns locked up exactly how he was supposed to. The kid either picked or made a copy of the key. If guns had finger print technology the father could have removed his son's access. Any attempt by someone to overwrite them or damage them renders the gun completely useless. It would not prevent every shooting but it could prevent some. That would also go a very long way towards preventing accidently shootings involving kids playing with daddy's gun. I'm not sure why anyone would not be in favor of preventing the accidental shooting death of kids. You can still own as many guns and fire as many guns as your heart desires, it just limits those you don't want touching your guns from using it. Very handy in the apocalypse when people show up to raid your house for supplies.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 28, 2018 20:18:56 GMT -5
I am very much in favor of those thumb print locks for guns that register the user to the weapon. The latest shooter's father had all the guns locked up exactly how he was supposed to. The kid either picked or made a copy of the key. If guns had finger print technology the father could have removed his son's access. Any attempt by someone to overwrite them or damage them renders the gun completely useless. It would not prevent every shooting but it could prevent some. That would also go a very long way towards preventing accidently shootings involving kids playing with daddy's gun. I'm not sure why anyone would not be in favor of preventing the accidental shooting death of kids. You can still own as many guns and fire as many guns as your heart desires, it just limits those you don't want touching your guns from using it. Very handy in the apocalypse when people show up to raid your house for supplies. The Parkland kid? I thought they were his guns that he bought and he had them locked up, but still had a key? Or have we gotten different information. That said - single owner guns would be pretty awesome. So many crimes committed with stolen guns would be eliminated. But, any technology to make that happen would have a hack that would make the feature useless.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 28, 2018 20:33:57 GMT -5
Teachers, by nature, want to help and teach. Shooting someone is the opposite of that. There is a reason so few teachers think this is a splendid idea, and I believe, before we make up our minds, we should hear the teacher's concerns. They probably have a good idea on what the holes are in this plan. I had this conversation with my sister last night, actually. she is a HS English teacher, at a very small boarding school in BFE nowhere for kids with learning disabilities. so this campus feels like a very large extended family rather than a typical public HS. her exact comment was that if she was ever faced with one of her students shooting up the school, that her first thought would be "oh, we failed him....how do we fix that?" not "I need to take him out before he takes me out".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 14:08:45 GMT -5
Teachers, by nature, want to help and teach. Shooting someone is the opposite of that. There is a reason so few teachers think this is a splendid idea, and I believe, before we make up our minds, we should hear the teacher's concerns. They probably have a good idea on what the holes are in this plan. I had this conversation with my sister last night, actually. she is a HS English teacher, at a very small boarding school in BFE nowhere for kids with learning disabilities. so this campus feels like a very large extended family rather than a typical public HS. her exact comment was that if she was ever faced with one of her students shooting up the school, that her first thought would be "oh, we failed him....how do we fix that?" not "I need to take him out before he takes me out". In the military, they use those for cannon fodder.
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