How long should you stay at the same position at work?

[Ava]

I have recently been promoted at work.

I had been at my prior position for 4 years, which I think it's too long.
But I was trying to move out of state, working on an MBA, and then taking the CPA exams. When all that was over, I was able to get the promotion.

Now I am concentrating in looking and acting more professional, because I don't want a job; I want a career. So I make sure to arrive 10 to 15 minutes early, and to look well put together with make up, perfume, etc.
I am also learning quickly my new duties.

I want to continue to progress.
How long should you stay at the same position without seeming greedy, impatient or a job hopper? When should you start looking for new opportunities?
My current employer requires to stay at one job for 12 months before you can apply to another internal position.

To me, 2 years seems to be more or less the appropriate amount of time.
I also have to figure out how high I want to go. I am pretty sure if I go 1 more pay grade within the same team, I can keep my current work-life balance. Any more than that and the job takes over your life, which is something I don't want.

[thyme4change]

2 years minimum.

[thyme4change]

Actually now that I wrote that, I am not so sure it is that easy. In some companies, if you hop every 2 years, you can get branded a gypsy. In others, if you aren't aggressively seeking a new position after 18 months, you are lazy and complacent. I didn't find that out about one of my jobs until it was too late, and put in my file. I hated that place.

[Deleted]

2 years maximum. Any longer you become embedded and it is a lot tougher to move up or over.

[Deleted]

thyme has a good point- corporate cultures differ.  Look at the people you consider successful in your company.  How did they get there?  Some may have history on LinkedIn.  Note that you don't need to be connected to them to check their profile but if you're signed in as a user they may be able to see that you've checked their profile.   You can also change your settings to be anonymous.

Anyway- did they spend years at your company and rise through a variety of positions?  Or did they come in from outside? 

I'd also make a distinction between changing jobs within your company and going outside the company.  Typically internal job changes are viewed more favorably- DS was with a company for 10 years and in 4 or 5 positions but they really supported internal moves.  (He just went to another employer but it was because he didn't like the way HQ several states away was calling the shots for his unit.)  If you move within the company they haven't lost their investment in hiring and training you. 

I'd say I definitely didn't move often enough, especially internally.  At one point I was doing the same thing for probably 5 years.  No wonder I got downsized. 

[tskeeter]

According to recent articles on employment, if you’re not changing employers about every two years, you’re going to end up earning about 50% less than you could earn.  Why?  Because employers are reluctant to give too big a raise, even when you take a significant promotion, transfer to a much higher cost of living area, when you take on more responsibility, or when economic conditions indicate that raises should be better.  

Based on on my observations from more than 30 years in accounting and finance with multiple Fortune 500 companies, I think the writers are on target.  Often, it seems that large employers target raises to average about 3%.  Top performers might get a little more, but less able performers will get less than the average.

So, if a person’s agenda is to make sure that their compensation is in line with their contribution to the organization they work for.  Their career plan should be structured around doing things that make regular changes of employment easier.  Join and be active in professional associations.  Be a presenter at professional association meetings.  Focus on regular skills development activities.  Don’t get hung up on the idea of loyalty to your employer or that your employer really values decades of experience in their company.  Loyalty is no longer a two way street (Liz Ryan’s recent Forbes  response to an employer letter is a classic.).  Not changing employers fairly frequently is now considered a detriment, rather than an asset.

Nobody will take as good care of your career as you will.  Invest the time and energy to grow your career.

[Deleted]

I went from a highly paid manager (due to position/job hopping) to lower in the payscale Director in 2.5 years. I will go for two years of experience at this level and then apply to a Director somewhere else to move up in the payscale. Good or bad it is just how it works. I’ve had to change companies at the Professional and Manager level previously to get paid the going rate.

I know people that have stayed at the same company their entire career and move to this level and they are ridiculously underpaid.

[gooddecisions]

Good for you for taking your professional image to the next level. Focus the next 18 months on being proficient at your job, continue to take advantage of career development opportunities and expand your network. Then see where you are in 18-24 months as far as advancement or other opportunities.

It really does depend. Most of my team consists of people in career destination positions and that's ok. One or two definitely want to climb and hustle and that's ok too.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2018 18:36:35 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

<snip>
(Liz Ryan’s recent Forbes  response to an employer letter is a classic.).

I LOVE Liz Ryan's posts on LinkedIn- haven't seen any in awhile.

The salary situation is worse when you look at total compensation- many companies now make bonuses a higher % of the total.  Bad year? Your bonus can go down and the measly % increase on your salary won't make up for it.  Voila- your compensation just decreased from the previous year.

You definitely need to look out for yourself.

[Anne_in_VA]

In my experience it depends on the company and/or the industry.  I work for one of the largest health insurance/healthcare companies in the US.  In this company, they don’t promote people as often as I saw it done at my last company.  They also don’t give very big raises, usually in the range of 2 to 3%.  Each department is given a pool of money for raises and it’s divided among the associates in that department.  I’ve heard that if too many people make a 3 on their review, HR will make the department head redo some since “everyone can’t be a 3”.  Several people have left for a better paying or better job and have come back at a higher level.  

At my last company, a nationally knowm media company, promotions were much more common.  In the 8 years I was at that company I received 4 promotions compared to the 3 I’ve gotten at my current company in the 11 years I’ve been there.

[Deleted]

You are in special circumstances, Ava, unless the requirements for the CPA have changed. When my son got his, it was two years continuous employment with the same employer. If he changed employers, the clock started over.

Employer may not mean "manager" or whoever will sign off on the work requirement. My info is second-hand.

But be very sure before starting a new job.

[tskeeter]

Feb 17, 2018 21:04:44 GMT -5 Anne_in_VA said:

In my experience it depends on the company and/or the industry.  I work for one of the largest health insurance/healthcare companies in the US.  In this company, they don’t promote people as often as I saw it done at my last company.  They also don’t give very big raises, usually in the range of 2 to 3%.  Each department is given a pool of money for raises and it’s divided among the associates in that department.  I’ve heard that if too many people make a 3 on their review, HR will make the department head redo some since “everyone can’t be a 3”.  Several people have left for a better paying or better job and have come back at a higher level.  

At my last company, a nationally knowm media company, promotions were much more common.  In the 8 years I was at that company I received 4 promotions compared to the 3 I’ve gotten at my current company in the 11 years I’ve been there.

Your experience at the insurance company was quite similar to my experience.

I expect the rate of promotion at various employers is less a function of a simple choice to promote people at a specific rate and more a function of many other factors.  Such as the employee turnover in the company, how rapidly the company is growing (or shrinking), the rate at which the employer is automating work, outsourcing work, or off shoring work, which stage people are at in their career (promotions are frequent early in most folks careers, less frequent later in careers, as jobs become more complex), and other factors.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Hi Ava,
I work in a profession that’s completely different from others in many ways including that there are no promotions.

I do know that physical presentation is important, so I’m glad you have embraced that portion.
Are there any professional organizations for accounting? Can you afford to join them?

[mamasita99]

At my current employer, they want us to work hard and move up the ladder quickly. To them it means growth, and of course growth means money for the company (usually). I have only been here 4 months and I am still in the "designee" role. When I have satisfied those requirements (should be in the next couple months), I will look closely at the compensation and opportunities and compare to the outside opportunities. 

[Blonde Granny]

I have  no advice except one.....don't wear perfume to the office. Many are sensitive to it and IMHO, You don't want to get known as "that girl who wears that awful perfume all the time".

[alabamagal]

Maybe I'm old school, but I cannot imagine changing companies every 2 years and part of that may be most job changes in my industry require you to move. I would also consider it bad and I was interviewing someone who had 5 or more employers with 2 years at each place. Because if you hired them they would be gone (from the company) in 2 years. There are some industries where job hopping happens more than others, I deal with construction management people and job changes are more common, you go where the big jobs are.

I think it is fine to stay at a company as long as there are plenty of opportunities to move up and meet your career goals. You have to take into account how much changing companies would disrupt your personal life.

My DS is 25 and is also surprisingly old school. He has worked as an actuary at an insurance company for 3 years, been promoted twice and gets raises after every exam he passes. His salary has increased over 50% since he started and his wife has a well paying teaching job. But they are in VHCOL area and he is job hunting. They realize they cannot afford a house costing over half a million. He is looking for a job where they can afford a house and settle down for a long time.

[Lizard Queen]

You probably don't want to listen to me, since I stayed in my last job way too long, but at 18 months-2 years, how do you ever vest in retirement contributions? Do you just not care?

[flutterby]

Feb 18, 2018 7:42:29 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

I have  no advice except one.....don't wear perfume to the office. Many are sensitive to it and IMHO, You don't want to get known as "that girl who wears that awful perfume all the time".

 I'm glad you brought this up. For perfume, just please don't.

As for how long you should stay, I agree it completely depends on the company. I work for the state. At my current level and below, "job hopping" is the norm. Come March 1st, I'll have been in my current (boring, almost nothing to do, should have been a part-time) position for six months. I'm amazed I made it that long. I'm applying for other positions now. No one will bat an eye at six months in a position. We really don't get raises, so the only way to increase compensation is move to another agency and get an automatic 10% raise, even staying at the same level, or get promoted to a higher level (and there aren't a lot of those above the level I'm at now).

So I'd say investigate a bit the people in your department and the company as a whole to assess how much movement seems normal there. If you want to go to a new company, I'd stay put a minimum of six months, but probably closer to a year, at your new position.

[Deleted]

One other thought- have you considered Toastmasters?  I've given this advice out before, but presentation and communication skills are a vital part of moving up.  A Toastmasters Club can provide a friendly environment for you to improve your skills- I've been a member for 14 years and even though I'm retired I stay in the club because it's a great group of people and I enjoy it.  National dues run about $120/year (collected semi-annually in April and October); clubs may collect additional dues to cover the cost of a meeting room.  I've been to a few canned seminars on public speaking but they cost a lot more and there's nothing like weekly practice to keep your skills sharp.

The main site is at toastmasters.org and they have a "Find a Club" search function.

[wvugurl26]

I guess it depends on your area, etc. If I had a resume from someone with a new company every 2 years, I'd toss it. In my area it takes at least a year to get up to speed and begin to make meaningful contributions. Many of our audits take 18-24 months. If people left every 2 years, who would finish them?

I do think it's good advice to present yourself well, look for professional organizations, network, keep your skills sharp, etc.

[TheOtherMe]

Feb 18, 2018 7:42:29 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

I have  no advice except one.....don't wear perfume to the office. Many are sensitive to it and IMHO, You don't want to get known as "that girl who wears that awful perfume all the time".

This only I use the word woman.  

No matter what type of job I have had, I my goal was always to arrive 15 to 20 minutes early.  That was true of my high school jobs through every single job I have ever had.

[NoNamePerson]

Feb 18, 2018 7:42:29 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

I have  no advice except one.....don't wear perfume to the office. Many are sensitive to it and IMHO, You don't want to get known as "that girl who wears that awful perfume all the time".

I was about to post this. And some folks who wear perfume get so used to it that they can't smell it and start swimming in it and then you can smell them coming a mile away. And smell them hours after they leave.

[Ava]

Feb 17, 2018 21:20:58 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

You are in special circumstances, Ava, unless the requirements for the CPA have changed. When my son got his, it was two years continuous employment with the same employer. If he changed employers, the clock started over.

Employer may not mean "manager" or whoever will sign off on the work requirement. My info is second-hand.

But be very sure before starting a new job.

I just got promoted. No, I am not trying to switch jobs at the moment.
I'm talking about the future, say, 2 years from now.

[Ava]

I'm not by nature a job hopper. In fact, starting a new job makes me very nervous and uncomfortable. At the same time, I love the fact that I get more PTO as I accumulate years with this employer.

As for the work culture here; the upper echelons of management are filled with people who have been with the company for 20 or more years and they all seem to be very happy with their jobs. Middle management is more of a mixed bag. There are people who've been here forever and others that are hired from outside as managers.

Going up one more level should be a relatively easy move in 2 or 3 years.
After that, I would have to jump departments and even maybe geographic location in order to get to the next level.
And once I get two levels up from where I am now, it's very difficult to get promoted. There just aren't enough positions to keep going. So, maybe at that point it would be time to see if I want to stay or if I should go somewhere else in order to keep growing professionally.

To me, time off is very important because my family lives so far. Just getting there takes 24 hours and another 24 hours to come back. Add to that the jet-lag and you can't visit for just a week. Many employers out there don't understand the need for longer vacations. They have no problem with my longer vacations here. So, I think work life balance will become more important than a bigger paycheck at some point.

For now, my new position is fulfilling because I have been recognized and I have so much to give and so much to learn. But I don't want to linger or become too comfortable. I was at my prior position for 4 years and it was too long. I was bored and frustrated the last year and feeling like I would never be able to move up. I don't want to feel that way again.

[Ava]

Feb 18, 2018 2:12:56 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Hi Ava,
I work in a profession that’s completely different from others in many ways including that there are no promotions.

I do know that physical presentation is important, so I’m glad you have embraced that portion.
Are there any professional organizations for accounting? Can you afford to join them?

Yes, there are. Yes, I can afford to join.

 I will join the association as soon as I'm done with the last two classes I have to take and I get my license.
In addition, my employer has an internal association for women who want to succeed. I will be joining that one soon, too.

[Ava]

Feb 18, 2018 9:37:31 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

One other thought- have you considered Toastmasters?  I've given this advice out before, but presentation and communication skills are a vital part of moving up.  A Toastmasters Club can provide a friendly environment for you to improve your skills- I've been a member for 14 years and even though I'm retired I stay in the club because it's a great group of people and I enjoy it.  National dues run about $120/year (collected semi-annually in April and October); clubs may collect additional dues to cover the cost of a meeting room.  I've been to a few canned seminars on public speaking but they cost a lot more and there's nothing like weekly practice to keep your skills sharp.

The main site is at toastmasters.org and they have a "Find a Club" search function.

I'll look into that. I never thought about Toastmasters.

[Deleted]

Feb 18, 2018 8:51:08 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

You probably don't want to listen to me, since I stayed in my last job way too long, but at 18 months-2 years, how do you ever vest in retirement contributions? Do you just not care?

In a 401k matching, vesting immediately world it isn’t so much of an issue anymore.

In addition to a 401k match I do have a defined contribution pension at my current company that vests at 20% a year over 5 years but it won’t stop me from looking outside the company in a couple years to advance. By then I’ll be about 60% vested.

[Tiny]

I,too, second the "don't wear too much perfume".   What is too much perfume?   Probably just wearing it.    There was a woman at work that wore so much perfume, it lingered in whatever area she was in long after she left.  I know sillage is prestigious and apparently sought after by perfume fashionistas... but please.  If every knows you were in a conference room long after you've left.. there's something wrong.  

There's also the potential awkwardness - if someone leans in close to you (say while working on a report or screen) and they get a wiff of your perfume.  It seems really personal and not professional at that point.     And yeah, leaning in that close to someone at the office - isn't really professional but sometimes it happens. 

That said.  I know a lot of women (and men) wear a fragrance and it's OK... just make sure you don't leave a perfume 'wake' behind you... 


As for how long to stay with an employer in a position.  I'd hate to put a 2 year limit on it.  I think it depends on what kind of skills and work you are actually doing and what you are learning/how you are increasing your 'marketability'.   If you are literally doing the exact SAME thing with the exact same accounts/clients/machine/tools for two years - and haven't managed to take on any additional duties... then yes that might be a warning sign of stagnation and indicate time for a change.    

It also depends on what "career" path you want to follow and where you want to be in 3/5/10 years.  I'd focus more on your 'goals' and the timing of those goals - as that will indicate which jobs to take and how long to stay at them.  When they aren't moving you towards a goal... then it's time to move on.    

[thyme4change]

My last two job jumps, I didn't get an increase. I had to negotiate back to my current rate. The only way changing companies every two years will get you more money is if you are a better negotiator than me.

I have accepted that my skill set isn't ideal for getting jobs cold. I don't think I present that well, and I am not full of confidence and really suck at bragging about my skills. I do think I am super dooper qualified on Excel, but that is assumed.

[Lizard Queen]

Feb 18, 2018 14:15:33 GMT -5 @aj said:

Feb 18, 2018 8:51:08 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

You probably don't want to listen to me, since I stayed in my last job way too long, but at 18 months-2 years, how do you ever vest in retirement contributions? Do you just not care?

In a 401k matching, vesting immediately world it isn’t so much of an issue anymore.

In addition to a 401k match I do have a defined contribution pension at my current company that vests at 20% a year over 5 years but it won’t stop me from looking outside the company in a couple years to advance. By then I’ll be about 60% vested.

Is it a 401k matching immediately vesting world? I guess I come from a different world.