Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 16:28:34 GMT -5
In a 401k matching, vesting immediately world it isn’t so much of an issue anymore. In addition to a 401k match I do have a defined contribution pension at my current company that vests at 20% a year over 5 years but it won’t stop me from looking outside the company in a couple years to advance. By then I’ll be about 60% vested. Is it a 401k matching immediately vesting world? I guess I come from a different world. This is from 2011 but it looks like 40% do. That’s surprising to me, I’ve been lucky to have immediate vesting everywhere I’ve been. “About 40 percent of 401(k) plans provide immediate vesting for matching contributions, according to the Profit Sharing/401(k) Council of America.” money.usnews.com/money/retirement/articles/2011/03/07/401k-mistakes-job-hoppers-make
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Feb 18, 2018 16:29:41 GMT -5
At my company, the 6% automatic company contribution vests after 3 years and the 401k match vests after 2 years. I just passed 3 years in January. 😀. I also had a 2 or 3 year payback on moving expenses. So I am free to leave now no penalty. Not planning on it though. At this point in my life (mid 50s) I am fine working at a good paying job with excellent benefits for the next 10 years.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 18, 2018 18:05:27 GMT -5
I'd say no more than 4 years. It really depends on what you want out of work/career. Not everyone can have the executive suite and not everyone wants it. I sure don't. If I can manage to get the business analyst/consultant position I'm working toward, I can see myself becoming a middle manager and probably not much higher. I need time and energy to enjoy my life outside of work.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 18:39:09 GMT -5
I'm with Knee Deep in Water Chloe . Not only are there no promotions, but there is every incentive for staying put. In my state, you get tenure, which isn't job protection for life Just ask the tenured broadcasting teacher who saw his whole program eliminated or the tenured teacher who made a terrible mistake in her choice of words to her students. The latter lost her job within three days although technically she "resigned" to avoid being fired. But if you behave yourself, do a decent job, and teach a core subject, you do have a certain amount of job security. You also get a room at my school (25% are floaters with no fixed classroom but rather 5 different classrooms spread over 3 floors!), a little choice in the classes you teach (I can teach 12th grade as opposed to 9th grade), etc. You also no longer have to buy new t-shirts and sweatshirts. Lol. Those do add up. If you have taught there as long as I have (20 years), you have accumulated an umbrella, license plate cover, and a dozen other kitschy knick-knacks with the school's name emblazoned on it. If you leave to go to a new school, you have to throw all these things away and get new kitschy stuff. You cannot wear or display the stuff of a rival school!
So it's better in the long run for a teacher to stay put if they are in a good school system. I checked the payscales. I can get $100 more per year if I change districts. It's definitely not worth it!
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Feb 19, 2018 1:08:21 GMT -5
You probably don't want to listen to me, since I stayed in my last job way too long, but at 18 months-2 years, how do you ever vest in retirement contributions? Do you just not care? You raise a legitimate consideration. If you’re making an employer change, you should be getting at least a 10% compensation increase. That compensation increase makes most employers 401K match inconsequential by comparison. I’d take a $10K pay increase to my last employer’s $4.2K 401K contribution any day. I’d even take a hit once if the job change would set me up for more advancement in the future.
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janee
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Post by janee on Feb 19, 2018 15:07:43 GMT -5
I think moving jobs every 2 years is ok for a lower level employee but I would not be interested in someone for a higher level position that has had 5 jobs in 10 years. That seems like they can't settle in or something isn't right! It's tough to bring on a new employee. In 2 years, I feel I'm just getting payback because I can trust them, know what they are good at (or not good at), etc. I want someone for longer than 2 years and I know I have to make it a good place for them to stay.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 19, 2018 15:12:09 GMT -5
It can't take months here just to get done with all the paperwork to do your job. Then you actually need to start doing your job. If you're hopping every two years you haven't been anywhere long enough to actually learn anything.
If I had to pick a number I'd go five years for the type of job I do, that's about when people are starting to hit the wall regarding funding nowadays. That's also enough time to master things and hopefully get a few publications under your belt.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Feb 19, 2018 15:14:35 GMT -5
I think it depends on the job and the employer. When I worked for small companies, I stayed until we moved. I was happy where I was and had a good work-like balance. When I moved to a bigger company, I was promoted after year 1 and year 3. In looking back, I had the experience for Year 1 promotion when I started with the company but needed some of the knowledge, which I attained during year 1. If I had stayed there, I would have been promoted at year 5 as they tended to promote every 2 years.
With my current company, I’m the only one with my knowledge base. I’m too concerned with getting promoted as I’m already at Management level. The next step up (unless some other newly created position) would be my boss’s level and I know I’m not ready for that. I’m perfectly content on where I’m at.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Feb 19, 2018 15:47:49 GMT -5
If you're talking about switching positions within a company, I can't see that it matters too much, so every 2 years would probably be fine.
Switching companies? I think switching every 2 years is a little much, other than maybe a couple times early on. I probably would try to have 3-5 years prior to switching personally, unless you're under 30. I'd also only switch if you are moving in order to get a promotion.
I think if you do it very early, job hopping can be helpful but once you're above 30, you should probably stick around for at least 4-5 years. I worked at 6 companies before I was 30 years old.....really I worked at my 1st company for 1 year, 2nd company for 2 years, 3rd company for 2 months, 4th company for 4 years, 5th company for 6 months, and 6th company for 4.5 years. I'm now on my 7th company and have been working here for 6 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 18:08:41 GMT -5
I think if you do it very early, job hopping can be helpful but once you're above 30, you should probably stick around for at least 4-5 years. I worked at 6 companies before I was 30 years old.....really I worked at my 1st company for 1 year, 2nd company for 2 years, 3rd company for 2 months, 4th company for 4 years, 5th company for 6 months, and 6th company for 4.5 years. I'm now on my 7th company and have been working here for 6 years. That sounds like my niece's track record and she was making $100K/year before she hit 30. I think she's been at the same place for a few years now. I wish I could have had her as a career coach.
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Feb 19, 2018 19:00:04 GMT -5
I have worked at the same company in the same position as titled assistant for 14 years! back in my day! LOL it was important to {1} stay at one company for years. {2} looks good on the employee profile. {3} also built up the 401k and retirement plan.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 19:38:47 GMT -5
I have worked at the same company in the same position as titled assistant for 14 years! back in my day! LOL it was important to {1} stay at one company for years. {2} looks good on the employee profile. {3} also built up the 401k and retirement plan. It all depends. Trust me, if they decide to cut staff, no one is going to keep you on just because you've been so loyal. You should always make sure you're learning new things and would be marketable if you were downsized. As for 401(k) and retirement, I agree that a DB pension would be very hard to leave behind since few employers offer one anymore and the benefits accumulate slowly over time. In the insurance business, where I worked, the 401(k) was less of a concern- the last time I joined a company where you weren't 100% vested in the company match from Day One was in 1985. So, unless the match varied considerably between two employers, it was no big deal to leave one company, do a tax-free rollover to a brokerage account, and keep going at the new company. Bonus: you had far more control over your investments once it was in an IRA.
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Feb 20, 2018 7:27:33 GMT -5
Funny! Back in my day. the employee first hire was last fired. in the current work environment, corporate. none of this matters. {2} it's us old employees currently that get let go first because so much has changed and actually no longer valid. the way it USED to work, no longer works. Unfortunately, I do feel I am not longer marketable. my degree in business management is 20 years old! LOL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 9:23:08 GMT -5
Funny! Back in my day. the employee first hire was last fired. in the current work environment, corporate. none of this matters. {2} it's us old employees currently that get let go first because so much has changed and actually no longer valid. the way it USED to work, no longer works. Unfortunately, I do feel I am not longer marketable. my degree in business management is 20 years old! LOL Are there any classes you can take to learn new skills? I know that company training departments are a thing of the past. They'll just let you stagnate and then you when they no longer need your skills. At a previous employer I once passed by a guy in the hall, who had been there for years, in his 50s, saying to someone else, "They're letting me go- they say there isn't any work for me". Ummm, really? "They" just woke up that morning and realized it? You need to take charge of your own marketability even if it takes some of your own funds and your spare time.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 20, 2018 15:42:03 GMT -5
My personal rule has always been 3-5 years in a position, since I started working in a professionally. I have currently commented "on the record" that I intend to stay in my current position about 6 years total, but I am now also in a role that is slightly higher than middle management, for the state, and in higher education, where many of the things we do, we only do once every year (and some only once every 2 years), so to be fully competent at something (in my mind, you have to have done something 3 times to be competent - 1.Someone trains you. 2.Do it on your own but ask questions/have someone check your work. 3.Perform the task fully on your own), you have to stick around for a few years. I know that in serving on the committee for a peer position, that we looked at job history, and had serious concerns about people who looked to be job hopping. Terms for Chairs are generally 5 years. We want the Admins to be willing to stay for the same amount of time. Up until now, the longest I have ever stayed in one position was 5 years. It was the time during which I got my MBA, and I graduated with that at the time the economy was falling down (2008). So, I stayed in that position 2 years longer than I had wanted to, but I honestly also wasn't finding new positions that would pay more than I was making in that one.
As a caveat to that, the students from my department will be entering the tech world. And everyone I've talked to there tells me that if you've stayed in the same position for 3 years with no promotion, that means you aren't capable of doing more, and will never be promoted again. In the tech industry, people are looking to change jobs on the 12-18 months time frame.
So, it depends on your industry. It depends on your employer (for the internal). And it depends on your personal comfort.
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Feb 20, 2018 16:17:57 GMT -5
Are there any classes you can take to learn new skills? I know that company training departments are a thing of the past. They'll just let you stagnate and then you when they no longer need your skills. At a previous employer I once passed by a guy in the hall, who had been there for years, in his 50s, saying to someone else, "They're letting me go- they say there isn't any work for me". Ummm, really? "They" just woke up that morning and realized it? You need to take charge of your own marketability even if it takes some of your own funds and your spare time. I know! believe me I know! for the at least past 7 years! I know I should have left this dysfunctional job company I work for! but with that said. it's dysfunction is why I stay. I can get away with shit that I would not be able to do at another company? yes, I am also aware - how do I know that? but I feel it is not worth the risk of finding out for higher pay. LOL
I am and have been interested in Computer Science. becoming a computer repair tech. being one of those guys that people bring their computer to get fixed {Best Buy / Geek Squad}. I can't express, explain, or provide an explanation of how upset I get when these azz-hats tell customers. "there is nothing I can do. I can't retrieve your files, they are all lost." That is such bullshit! Hey, computer repair tech. why don't you do your fucking job and fix the PC!
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 21, 2018 9:33:38 GMT -5
My perspective is probably a bit skewed because I work in the government sector. When I started out after college, I was at a job from 18 months to three years before getting another job with a promotion. I'd say that's pretty typical in the early-mid career range. But I'm at the point now where promotions aren't nearly as easy. Government workers tend to stay in their jobs a very long time (some 20+ years), so it can be hard to move up. I'm a GS-13 and there just aren't that many GS-14 or GS 15 jobs available, and when they come open competition is pretty stiff and once someone gets in, they typically stay in that job for a long time. At this point in my career I'd say my chances of getting one more promotion during my remaining 30 years in the workforce is pretty likely, but I wouldn't anticipate much more than that. To answer your question, I'd say 18 months minimum to three years maximum, at least until you reach mid career level. Eventually I'd imagine most careers end up like mine, you hit a wall where it's increasingly hard to move up and the time spent in a position will be longer.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 21, 2018 10:39:25 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - Actually, I think what you're talking about is actually one of the points other people were making. If you stay in the same organization, you hit a wall. The advice is to be changing organizations every couple of years to keep seeing that career growth. Now, many people who work for the government decide to trade off career growth for stability and benefits, and that's fine, but you have to recognize it as a choice and a trade off you are making. You very likely could have significant career growth/raises if you chose to go to private industry. Please note that I am not bashing the choice. I also work for the government, though at the state level, and certainly if I stay at my current institution, my options for growth are limited. For now, the stability matters much more to me than the raises, so I will stay where I am. But, even in government, there is room for growth if you're willing to jump agencies. My mother started as a ward clerk with the VA, transferred to a new state (still with the VA) into HR, and then later moved into state government (different state than I'm in now), through more jobs than I can actually remember with the state, and ended her career as the head of HR for the state Secretary of State. And all of this was AFTER she divorced my father and had been a stay at home mom/part time worker for 16 years.
So the growth potential remains, if you're willing to take the risk. But that's why I say it depends on your industry, your employer, and your personal comfort. Because in the end, your own tolerance for risk (or lack thereof) is the biggest factor in how quickly you move up in your career, and how high you go.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Feb 21, 2018 10:58:34 GMT -5
My personal story is that I have been at the same position with my company for 13 years. My work history is that I tempted for 1 year, worked at a CPA firm for 3 years, worked at a larger company for 2 years and then my current position. There is not a whole lot of growth at the current company, but I am also not a type A person either. I am not sure I would recommend anyone following the path I followed, but here I am. I think it is great to seek out other opportunities that interest you.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 21, 2018 22:37:13 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - Actually, I think what you're talking about is actually one of the points other people were making. If you stay in the same organization, you hit a wall. The advice is to be changing organizations every couple of years to keep seeing that career growth. Now, many people who work for the government decide to trade off career growth for stability and benefits, and that's fine, but you have to recognize it as a choice and a trade off you are making. You very likely could have significant career growth/raises if you chose to go to private industry. Please note that I am not bashing the choice. I also work for the government, though at the state level, and certainly if I stay at my current institution, my options for growth are limited. For now, the stability matters much more to me than the raises, so I will stay where I am. But, even in government, there is room for growth if you're willing to jump agencies. My mother started as a ward clerk with the VA, transferred to a new state (still with the VA) into HR, and then later moved into state government (different state than I'm in now), through more jobs than I can actually remember with the state, and ended her career as the head of HR for the state Secretary of State. And all of this was AFTER she divorced my father and had been a stay at home mom/part time worker for 16 years.
So the growth potential remains, if you're willing to take the risk. But that's why I say it depends on your industry, your employer, and your personal comfort. Because in the end, your own tolerance for risk (or lack thereof) is the biggest factor in how quickly you move up in your career, and how high you go. That's all true. I have jumped federal agencies several times, this is my fourth federal job with the third agency. It's been good moves so far on my part. But part of the problem is that I work in a very narrow, specialized field (radiation safety) so there aren't a lot of jobs in general and not very many management jobs. I'm thinking if I want to move up I'll have to consider other occupational series that could easily transfer with my skill set. Another thing kind of holding me back is a lot of the higher level federal jobs are in Washington DC, which I don't really want to move there, since it's too expensive. Yeah, I'll be making more but cost of living will be much higher so in the end I'll likely be worse off. The state governments really don't pay well, someone who does my job for the state makes about half what I make. There is private industry, but I'd stop accuring pension. But you're right, if I want to move up any time soon I'll have to make a move, try to find another agency or go private sector. Right now, I'm focused on passing the certified health physics exam, since I didn't pass it last year. I've been kind of holding off serious consideration of moving until that certification is obtained. I check USA jobs every week or two to see if there happens to be a job I'm interested in. I can't complain about my current job too much though, I make pretty good money and my bosses seem to like me and the job I'm doing.
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garion2003
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Post by garion2003 on Feb 26, 2018 12:50:56 GMT -5
I've been at places (education) that had varied vesting periods, from immediately (stayed there 2 years), to 5 years (left after 2.5, missed the vest) to 3 years (current employer, going on 4 years now).
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