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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 19:54:47 GMT -5
I did this twice. Finally had to admit to myself it wasn't ex or DH, I'm just domestic. If I really wanted to pursue my fantasized globe trotting career it would have been a priority. I mean, if I was so confident in the relationships being able to follow my dreams shouldn't have been an issue. Still fun to fantasize, and think maybe some day, but I realize now it is much more than an SO that has kept me on my quaint little path. But, we're not talking about globetrotting. We're talking about being able to reasonably compete for full time employment. In a GOOD year, in my city, 10 full time jobs open up in my DH's field. In bad years, it's 2-3. They don't hand scarce, professional-career type jobs to folks who have have no professional network, essentially mommy-tracked for two decades, and at best worked part-time at the same pay level as school crossing guards (14-16 per hour). Has he ever thought of doing something totally different if there are so few jobs in that field? And holy crap on the 14-16 per hour for crossing guard. I make 17!
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 9, 2018 20:15:25 GMT -5
C But, we're not talking about globetrotting. We're talking about being able to reasonably compete for full time employment. In a GOOD year, in my city, 10 full time jobs open up in my DH's field. In bad years, it's 2-3. They don't hand scarce, professional-career type jobs to folks who have have no professional network, essentially mommy-tracked for two decades, and at best worked part-time at the same pay level as school crossing guards (14-16 per hour). Has he ever thought of doing something totally different if there are so few jobs in that field?
And holy crap on the 14-16 per hour for crossing guard. I make 17! Crossing Guard . Actually I'm being very serious. Plus if you work enough part time hours.. you get access to the pension system (separate from the state, I think), health care, etc. They always have a hard time find folks. I'm not sure what he would do now. It doesn't make sense to retrain in another field. Entry level, pay likely wouldn't cover childcare costs now anyway, now with Miss M. Even if we found really cheap inhome full time for Miss M, we're still looking at spending 30K in daycare/after school/summer care costs for the kids (#2-4). Plus, we'd need an extra 8K to cover private school tuition, so we'd need 38K net. Even working in a factory or getting his CDL and being a trucker won't really help. Entry level salary for a trucker is 40K...I'm sure factory work doesn't make much more.. We'd actually be financially worse off if DH worked full time. It isn't realistic to expect taxes on a 40K salary to be 2K... By the time Miss M starts all day 4K, we'll be 47, and his parents will be 77. Not completely old, but I'm betting they will start to need help. There's already talk of replacing body parts...I'd rather he still keep working part time, vs working full time for a decade, and then having more things on our plates...I'd like to actually relax a little bit before retirement, rather than trading in school for elder care.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jan 9, 2018 20:21:59 GMT -5
It can be tough when success is measured by income or prestigious position. I really admire you guys, Gira, for prioritizing what you wanted as people and a family and doing what it takes to make it happen instead of shooting for "successful on paper".
I have LOADS of admiration for all those of you who juggle madness to make your life work.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jan 9, 2018 20:44:29 GMT -5
I lost a career when I had to quit and stay home with mom and DD. But I'm not kidding myself, I was just doing ok, I liked my job, didn't care for the people, but sure we needed the money But I had to change it all and did. If I hadn't had hubs I could not have coped with all the issues I had, might have been an accountant on welfare for some years, who knows. And then due to husbands skills, and like he said being in the right place at the right time we did well. But we have also worked our butts off and still are. We don't mind. I should have saved even more, we likely should have invested differently. We will be ok I think. We have totally been thrilled to be able to help son and wife, and adore our grandson, so it has turned out even better then we thought it would.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Jan 9, 2018 21:15:28 GMT -5
I did this twice. Finally had to admit to myself it wasn't ex or DH, I'm just domestic. If I really wanted to pursue my fantasized globe trotting career it would have been a priority. I mean, if I was so confident in the relationships being able to follow my dreams shouldn't have been an issue. Still fun to fantasize, and think maybe some day, but I realize now it is much more than an SO that has kept me on my quaint little path. But, we're not talking about globetrotting. We're talking about being able to reasonably compete for full time employment. In a GOOD year, in my city, 10 full time jobs open up in my DH's field. In bad years, it's 2-3. They don't hand scarce, professional-career type jobs to folks who have have no professional network, essentially mommy-tracked for two decades, and at best worked part-time at the same pay level as school crossing guards (14-16 per hour). Well yeah, the globetrotting is my dream, just as being an attorney is MJ's A move to another city or state can still be a big leap. I think when you are single you might be even more reliant on being near friends and family. If it was really important to your family for your DH to find a job in his field I have no doubt you would find a way to relocate. You are scrappy like that. Just saying sometimes you don't follow your "dreams" because the dreams you think you should have aren't as important as the ones you are already living.
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dee27
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Post by dee27 on Jan 9, 2018 21:29:03 GMT -5
Just saying sometimes you don't follow your "dreams" because the dreams you think you should have aren't as important as the ones you are already living.
This statement is so true. I loved being a mom, but I enjoyed the interactions at work even though it was not my dream job.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jan 10, 2018 9:10:54 GMT -5
But, we're not talking about globetrotting. We're talking about being able to reasonably compete for full time employment. In a GOOD year, in my city, 10 full time jobs open up in my DH's field. In bad years, it's 2-3. They don't hand scarce, professional-career type jobs to folks who have have no professional network, essentially mommy-tracked for two decades, and at best worked part-time at the same pay level as school crossing guards (14-16 per hour). What is your husband's field?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 10, 2018 9:31:51 GMT -5
A lot of jobs like that pay higher hourly wages because of no benefits.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 10, 2018 9:39:20 GMT -5
Me Three. There's a part of me that would have loved to have a high-powered career, but in my heart I'm really just a domestic girl with pretty fierce nesting instincts and a love of animals, cooking/baking, knitting and gardening. In my fantasies it would have been *awesome* to swagger down the halls of power in a pencil skirt and heels, but my reality is I don't even polish my nails because it's a struggle just to keep garden dirt cleaned out from underneath them I find it fascinating and saddening that people had dreams. I never thought about "fulfilling" work or anything that tapped into my humanity, but rather ruthlessly prioritized the highest NPV. I have zero percent interest in "power" or "making a mark in the industry" or being in the history books. I merely want what I've always wanted, to beholden to no man and have the freedom to do and act as I choose. Unfortunately, I've burned off a bit of my humanity in purusing higher paying jobs, some would call this growing, up, but I call this "the hardening". i don't regret a family, but had I stayed single, and alive, I would have been able to retire to my extremely frugal life 10 years ago. i'm much wealthier now, but much busier too as I watch my health fade, my heart harden, and my parenting fail on a regular basis. I don't know that I'd be better off though. I hope that my children have dreams, and I hope they get to be happy with some of them. sorry for being so morose, being asked to work late a lot right now
For me, I think my childhood prevented me from having "dreams". My only dream was to never be poor again. Every choice I have made has been to accomplish my goal of being financially secure. My job sucks the life out of me. I work long hours and have an immense level of stress put on me. I make a very good salary, especially considering that I live in a LCOLA, but that comes at a price.
But I can't change the little girl inside of me who knows what it is like to wake up with no heat because there was no money to buy oil or who had to look in horror as her mom bought groceries with food stamps. Or worse, bringing home school friends for the first time to my apartment in government housing.
I always talk of chucking it all for an easier life but that scared little girl pops back up and reminds me that life is about choices and I do not want to risk being one paycheck away from not making my mortgage payment.
I am envious of those people with jobs that they clock in and out of. I might have a lot more money than they do but they have more freedom. There are trade-offs to everything.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 10, 2018 9:44:03 GMT -5
I totally understand this plus the insecure little girl didn't fortify herself for the real world with a well paying job skill.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 10:26:43 GMT -5
I did this twice. Finally had to admit to myself it wasn't ex or DH, I'm just domestic. If I really wanted to pursue my fantasized globe trotting career it would have been a priority. I mean, if I was so confident in the relationships being able to follow my dreams shouldn't have been an issue. Still fun to fantasize, and think maybe some day, but I realize now it is much more than an SO that has kept me on my quaint little path. I agree. I never rose above VP level in my career, and VPs are a dime a dozen in the insurance business. I know other actuaries who became CEOs, CFOs and partners in prestigious consulting firms. One, according to public information, made $17 million in his first year as CEO of a company where I worked. That was 1995 and he's still there. While I know that having a very un-supportive first husband worked against me (he did very little to care for DS, whined when I went on business trips, constantly undermined my self-confidence), the truth is that I never wanted to pay the price for the C-suite- more meetings, more travel, longer hours, trying to figure out how to navigate corporate politics, etc. But, here I am, almost 4 years after retiring at 61, with a good relationship with my son and DIL and two wonderful granddaughters. Not sure what I'd do if I had the pile of money I'd have with years of multi-million dollar compensation packages- right now my travel plans are beyond my wildest dreams. I'd probably just give more to charity and fund the grandkids' educations faster.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jan 10, 2018 11:02:37 GMT -5
I find it fascinating and saddening that people had dreams. I never thought about "fulfilling" work or anything that tapped into my humanity, but rather ruthlessly prioritized the highest NPV. I have zero percent interest in "power" or "making a mark in the industry" or being in the history books. I merely want what I've always wanted, to beholden to no man and have the freedom to do and act as I choose. Unfortunately, I've burned off a bit of my humanity in purusing higher paying jobs, some would call this growing, up, but I call this "the hardening". i don't regret a family, but had I stayed single, and alive, I would have been able to retire to my extremely frugal life 10 years ago. i'm much wealthier now, but much busier too as I watch my health fade, my heart harden, and my parenting fail on a regular basis. I don't know that I'd be better off though. I hope that my children have dreams, and I hope they get to be happy with some of them. sorry for being so morose, being asked to work late a lot right now
For me, I think my childhood prevented me from having "dreams". My only dream was to never be poor again. Every choice I have made has been to accomplish my goal of being financially secure. My job sucks the life out of me. I work long hours and have an immense level of stress put on me. I make a very good salary, especially considering that I live in a LCOLA, but that comes at a price.
But I can't change the little girl inside of me who knows what it is like to wake up with no heat because there was no money to buy oil or who had to look in horror as her mom bought groceries with food stamps. Or worse, bringing home school friends for the first time to my apartment in government housing.
I always talk of chucking it all for an easier life but that scared little girl pops back up and reminds me that life is about choices and I do not want to risk being one paycheck away from not making my mortgage payment.
I am envious of those people with jobs that they clock in and out of. I might have a lot more money than they do but they have more freedom. There are trade-offs to everything.
The frozen toilet seat is the worst! I still remember screaming when i sat on the toilet during one of those no oil days. Eek! And i remember bringing a friend home from school and seeing the giant orange sheriff sale sign on our front door. That said, my dream was probably to do as little work for as much money as possible, lol. My 35-hour work week points to dream achieved!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 10, 2018 11:22:13 GMT -5
For me, I think my childhood prevented me from having "dreams". My only dream was to never be poor again. Every choice I have made has been to accomplish my goal of being financially secure. My job sucks the life out of me. I work long hours and have an immense level of stress put on me. I make a very good salary, especially considering that I live in a LCOLA, but that comes at a price.
But I can't change the little girl inside of me who knows what it is like to wake up with no heat because there was no money to buy oil or who had to look in horror as her mom bought groceries with food stamps. Or worse, bringing home school friends for the first time to my apartment in government housing.
I always talk of chucking it all for an easier life but that scared little girl pops back up and reminds me that life is about choices and I do not want to risk being one paycheck away from not making my mortgage payment.
I am envious of those people with jobs that they clock in and out of. I might have a lot more money than they do but they have more freedom. There are trade-offs to everything.
The frozen toilet seat is the worst! I still remember screaming when i sat on the toilet during one of those no oil days. Eek! And i remember bringing a friend home from school and seeing the giant orange sheriff sale sign on our front door. That said, my dream was probably to do as little work for as much money as possible, lol. My 35-hour work week points to dream achieved! LOL! I agree on the no toilet seat!
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dee27
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Post by dee27 on Jan 10, 2018 11:59:04 GMT -5
Me Three. There's a part of me that would have loved to have a high-powered career, but in my heart I'm really just a domestic girl with pretty fierce nesting instincts and a love of animals, cooking/baking, knitting and gardening. In my fantasies it would have been *awesome* to swagger down the halls of power in a pencil skirt and heels, but my reality is I don't even polish my nails because it's a struggle just to keep garden dirt cleaned out from underneath them I find it fascinating and saddening that people had dreams. I never thought about "fulfilling" work or anything that tapped into my humanity, but rather ruthlessly prioritized the highest NPV. I have zero percent interest in "power" or "making a mark in the industry" or being in the history books. I merely want what I've always wanted, to beholden to no man and have the freedom to do and act as I choose. Unfortunately, I've burned off a bit of my humanity in purusing higher paying jobs, some would call this growing, up, but I call this "the hardening". i don't regret a family, but had I stayed single, and alive, I would have been able to retire to my extremely frugal life 10 years ago. i'm much wealthier now, but much busier too as I watch my health fade, my heart harden, and my parenting fail on a regular basis.I don't know that I'd be better off though. I hope that my children have dreams, and I hope they get to be happy with some of them. sorry for being so morose, being asked to work late a lot right now Take care of your health, so you can be there to enjoy your family. Kids are a mixed bag because there are days that they drive you crazy, but you love them any way because they are your kids. I hope you are able to find a balance in your life.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jan 10, 2018 12:51:50 GMT -5
What's normal? Remember that money helps but it isn't everything. I have enough money but I've had a really really hard year. Having money in the bank doesn't get me out of bed in the morning. Try to remember you're still alive and healthy and that it could be worse. I think everyone gets knocked off kilter once in a while. We just need a while to stabilize back. NomoreDramaQ1015 , is that book Switch - How to Change Things When Change is Hard by Dan Heath ? I'm reading this right now. It makes sense.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 10, 2018 13:10:49 GMT -5
I grew up middle of the road middle class with no one really teaching me money management. We weren't ever rich, but we had all necessities and plenty of the wants covered. My mom & SD did go into CC debt for a lot of it, but I didn't know that until they started calling... daily... multiple times a day.
X was/is frugal and was determined to have no rolling consumer debt (he came from the same type of background), and we managed that for a long time. Then the split happened and we are both drowning (him more than me).
I don't know. I guess I know that I'll always have a place to live or have food or clothing - may not be fancy, but I'll have it. I've never been without essentials (due to poverty), so I can't imagine that.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 10, 2018 13:42:02 GMT -5
Take care of your health, so you can be there to enjoy your family. Kids are a mixed bag because there are days that they drive you crazy, but you love them any way because they are your kids. I hope you are able to find a balance in your life. the real crime is that i might be able to early retire in about 10 years, right when my 15 year old kids will want nothing to do with me, my parents will be dead and i'll be in whatever condition i'll be in. time value of money is a bitch. it works for us, but it requires we work and invest now... I heard this quote from the Dali Lama at the end of a yoga session and it's very (sadly) true. When asked what surprises him the most in a recent interview, he offered this insightful response: “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jan 10, 2018 13:47:35 GMT -5
the real crime is that i might be able to early retire in about 10 years, right when my 15 year old kids will want nothing to do with me, my parents will be dead and i'll be in whatever condition i'll be in. time value of money is a bitch. it works for us, but it requires we work and invest now... I heard this quote from the Dali Lama at the end of a yoga session and it's very (sadly) true. When asked what surprises him the most in a recent interview, he offered this insightful response: “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”Ain't that the truth!! Thanks for sharing that quote MJ. So Profound.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 13:49:24 GMT -5
I don't know going without poverty either. Our freezer was always full of frozen pizzas and the pantry with mac and cheese...so yeah...didn't eat well a lot of the time especially considering I was a latch key kid from first grade on, but there was always food and heat and clothes (although I got name brand nothing except one pair of Nikes a year). I don't know how much money mom had...probably not much. She was a single mom working a factory when I was little and didn't remarry until I was a senior in high school. We had horses and a boat, but on the cheap. We lived in a tiny house in town and I heard "No" constantly. I don't remember doing anything with her growing up. Nothing. No trips to the zoo or amusement parks or even camping. The only vacations I took were with my grandparents, but they took me all over.
She never taught me about money, but I'm pretty sure there is a gene in our family for money management from my Grandma. It's weird, but I really think so, and it's especially prevalent in the women. My mom and her sisters are all doing very well at this point. Definitely enjoying their retirements.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 13:52:01 GMT -5
Take care of your health, so you can be there to enjoy your family. Kids are a mixed bag because there are days that they drive you crazy, but you love them any way because they are your kids. I hope you are able to find a balance in your life. the real crime is that i might be able to early retire in about 10 years, right when my 15 year old kids will want nothing to do with me, my parents will be dead and i'll be in whatever condition i'll be in. time value of money is a bitch. it works for us, but it requires we work and invest now... I don't know about that. My 15 year old enjoys being with me and he certainly NEEDS me now more than he did say in grade school. Actually, if I could change the fact that I was home with him from ages 0-3 and swap that to 15-18, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 10, 2018 13:58:23 GMT -5
I heard that kids actually need you more as they age.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 10, 2018 13:58:48 GMT -5
Me Three. There's a part of me that would have loved to have a high-powered career, but in my heart I'm really just a domestic girl with pretty fierce nesting instincts and a love of animals, cooking/baking, knitting and gardening. In my fantasies it would have been *awesome* to swagger down the halls of power in a pencil skirt and heels, but my reality is I don't even polish my nails because it's a struggle just to keep garden dirt cleaned out from underneath them I find it fascinating and saddening that people had dreams. I never thought about "fulfilling" work or anything that tapped into my humanity, but rather ruthlessly prioritized the highest NPV. I have zero percent interest in "power" or "making a mark in the industry" or being in the history books. I merely want what I've always wanted, to beholden to no man and have the freedom to do and act as I choose. Unfortunately, I've burned off a bit of my humanity in purusing higher paying jobs, some would call this growing, up, but I call this "the hardening". i don't regret a family, but had I stayed single, and alive, I would have been able to retire to my extremely frugal life 10 years ago. i'm much wealthier now, but much busier too as I watch my health fade, my heart harden, and my parenting fail on a regular basis.I don't know that I'd be better off though. I hope that my children have dreams, and I hope they get to be happy with some of them. sorry for being so morose, being asked to work late a lot right now I think a lot of us are in that boat. Especially the parenting fails.
We only had one child because DH is in one of those mental health professions that doesn't pay much, and I figured I needed to work full time and we didn't want to take on more than we could handle, kid-wise. I wonder now if I should have quit for a few years, had another baby as a poor SAHM, then gotten back into the workplace, but I earn a lot more money now (about 2x what DH makes) and I probably wouldn't be in this position in my career if I'd taken the time off - plus then we would have had twice the expense of college.
Probably, there is some woman somewhere who now regrets that she decided to be a SAHM and have several kids that she was never able to support the way she wanted to - she probably wonders what would have happened if she stopped at 1 or 2 and went back to work - I'm sure everyone wonders what might have happened, if we had prioritized different things.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 10, 2018 14:00:51 GMT -5
the real crime is that i might be able to early retire in about 10 years, right when my 15 year old kids will want nothing to do with me, my parents will be dead and i'll be in whatever condition i'll be in. time value of money is a bitch. it works for us, but it requires we work and invest now... I don't know about that. My 15 year old enjoys being with me and he certainly NEEDS me now more than he did say in grade school. Actually, if I could change the fact that I was home with him from ages 0-3 and swap that to 15-18, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I know people may feel differently but my stepmom always felt we needed her more in those teenage years. She said it was easy to hire someone to change our diapers but she needed to be there when we were older. Both her and my dad worked full time but they arranged their hours so she went in early and was home shortly after we got home from school.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 10, 2018 14:04:15 GMT -5
the real crime is that i might be able to early retire in about 10 years, right when my 15 year old kids will want nothing to do with me, my parents will be dead and i'll be in whatever condition i'll be in. time value of money is a bitch. it works for us, but it requires we work and invest now... I heard this quote from the Dali Lama at the end of a yoga session and it's very (sadly) true. When asked what surprises him the most in a recent interview, he offered this insightful response: “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”I liked your post but I more agree with it than like it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 10, 2018 14:07:53 GMT -5
I heard that kids actually need you more as they age. I can attest to the fact that I had to keep a better eye on my oldest once she hit the teen years...how we both made it trhough is a miracle! Plus all of the after-school activities, travel cheer, etc. I definitely needed the time more when she was older.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 10, 2018 14:09:53 GMT -5
I find it fascinating and saddening that people had dreams. I never thought about "fulfilling" work or anything that tapped into my humanity, but rather ruthlessly prioritized the highest NPV. I have zero percent interest in "power" or "making a mark in the industry" or being in the history books. I merely want what I've always wanted, to beholden to no man and have the freedom to do and act as I choose. Unfortunately, I've burned off a bit of my humanity in purusing higher paying jobs, some would call this growing, up, but I call this "the hardening". i don't regret a family, but had I stayed single, and alive, I would have been able to retire to my extremely frugal life 10 years ago. i'm much wealthier now, but much busier too as I watch my health fade, my heart harden, and my parenting fail on a regular basis.I don't know that I'd be better off though. I hope that my children have dreams, and I hope they get to be happy with some of them. sorry for being so morose, being asked to work late a lot right now I think a lot of us are in that boat. Especially the parenting fails.
We only had one child because DH is in one of those mental health professions that doesn't pay much, and I figured I needed to work full time and we didn't want to take on more than we could handle, kid-wise. I wonder now if I should have quit for a few years, had another baby as a poor SAHM, then gotten back into the workplace, but I earn a lot more money now (about 2x what DH makes) and I probably wouldn't be in this position in my career if I'd taken the time off - plus then we would have had twice the expense of college.
Probably, there is some woman somewhere who now regrets that she decided to be a SAHM and have several kids that she was never able to support the way she wanted to - she probably wonders what would have happened if she stopped at 1 or 2 and went back to work - I'm sure everyone wonders what might have happened, if we had prioritized different things.
Hell, I worry that I screwed my kids up by not becoming a single mom sooner! All we can do is our best...in the end, we all fuck up and move on
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 10, 2018 14:13:25 GMT -5
I heard this quote from the Dali Lama at the end of a yoga session and it's very (sadly) true. When asked what surprises him the most in a recent interview, he offered this insightful response: “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”I liked your post but I more agree with it than like it. LOL I gotcha
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Deleted
Joined: Jun 2, 2024 13:51:54 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 14:13:34 GMT -5
I heard that kids actually need you more as they age. Yes. They. Do. You get more "breaks" because it's not a constant taking care of their needs, but it gets to be a lot more complicated and stressful too. Babies are kind of like a puppy.
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dannylion
Junior Associate
Gravity is a harsh mistress
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 12:17:52 GMT -5
Posts: 5,197
Location: Miles over the madness horizon and accelerating
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Post by dannylion on Jan 10, 2018 14:15:08 GMT -5
I have made multiple stupid decisions...some more than once. I'm a huge fan of hanging out with people that are where I'd like to be. It's kind of like it's better to be the tiny, needs improvements house in the ritzy neighborhood than the mcmansion in the hood. Those around you bring you up, not down. You just have to not let jealousy creep in. My son is on a very competitive speech team. I mean they do extremely well for a small school and are always winning meets and advancing tons of kids to state and nationals. My son has never placed at a meet and is just JV. In comparison with a most of those kids he sucks pretty bad. Yesterday, him and 6 other boys spoke at an Eagle court of honor. OMG. Another mom came up to me after and said exactly what I was thinking, "Boy, you could sure tell which two kids are on the speech team!" My son and the other kid did a beautiful job, the rest it was almost impossible to even understand them. So, even though he's not bringing home any awards he's certainly benefitting. And that skill will be of benefit to him in the future more than he can imagine.
I worked with really, really smart people. There were many colleagues with advanced degrees from prestigious universities. They were good, some very good, at their jobs, but a large number of them were introverts and had never pursued public speaking skills. Most of them had actively avoided public speaking.
I'm smart, but not brilliant like some of my former colleagues, and only had a BA from UCLA, not a PhD from Columbia or a Master's from MIT or Yale or whatever. What I did have that they didn't was drama/stage training. My parents sent me to some summer and after-school enrichment courses when I was in elementary and junior high school, which included drama classes at the Pasadena Playhouse. I also took drama in high school.
I was a plain, lumpen child and teenager, very shy and awkward, so I seldom got the "good" parts, but I learned how to stand up in front of a bunch of strangers and make myself heard, how to convey information with appropriate inflection, etc., how to overcome stage fright, how to memorize information, and lots of other things that came in handy when someone had to give a briefing to some "important" people.
Many times I wasn't necessarily the expert but I was the one sent "downtown" to present the information because I could turn in a polished performance, and I wasn't afraid. I think that skill was part of what enabled me to advance beyond the level achieved by many of the really, really smart folks with advanced degrees.
Young people often don't appreciate the value of peripheral skills and so never acquire them. Once he gets into the world of work and careers, your son will have an advantage that many of his peers will not. He will likely even do better in interviews than others because of his speech training. He'll be better at interacting with colleagues and clients. He might not be a star now, but he will certainly benefit for the rest of his life from the skills he is acquiring.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 10, 2018 14:22:20 GMT -5
I have made multiple stupid decisions...some more than once. I'm a huge fan of hanging out with people that are where I'd like to be. It's kind of like it's better to be the tiny, needs improvements house in the ritzy neighborhood than the mcmansion in the hood. Those around you bring you up, not down. You just have to not let jealousy creep in. My son is on a very competitive speech team. I mean they do extremely well for a small school and are always winning meets and advancing tons of kids to state and nationals. My son has never placed at a meet and is just JV. In comparison with a most of those kids he sucks pretty bad. Yesterday, him and 6 other boys spoke at an Eagle court of honor. OMG. Another mom came up to me after and said exactly what I was thinking, "Boy, you could sure tell which two kids are on the speech team!" My son and the other kid did a beautiful job, the rest it was almost impossible to even understand them. So, even though he's not bringing home any awards he's certainly benefitting. And that skill will be of benefit to him in the future more than he can imagine.
I worked with really, really smart people. There were many colleagues with advanced degrees from prestigious universities. They were good, some very good, at their jobs, but a large number of them were introverts and had never pursued public speaking skills. Most of them had actively avoided public speaking.
I'm smart, but not brilliant like some of my former colleagues, and only had a BA from UCLA, not a PhD from Columbia or a Master's from MIT or Yale or whatever. What I did have that they didn't was drama/stage training. My parents sent me to some summer and after-school enrichment courses when I was in elementary and junior high school, which included drama classes at the Pasadena Playhouse. I also took drama in high school.
I was a plain, lumpen child and teenager, very shy and awkward, so I seldom got the "good" parts, but I learned how to stand up in front of a bunch of strangers and make myself heard, how to convey information with appropriate inflection, etc., how to overcome stage fright, how to memorize information, and lots of other things that came in handy when someone had to give a briefing to some "important" people.
Many times I wasn't necessarily the expert but I was the one sent "downtown" to present the information because I could turn in a polished performance, and I wasn't afraid. I think that skill was part of what enabled me to advance beyond the level achieved by many of the really, really smart folks with advanced degrees.
Young people often don't appreciate the value of peripheral skills and so never acquire them. Once he gets into the world of work and careers, your son will have an advantage that many of his peers will not. He will likely even do better in interviews than others because of his speech training. He'll be better at interacting with colleagues and clients. He might not be a star now, but he will certainly benefit for the rest of his life from the skills he is acquiring.
Absolutely! My son was beat out of promotions because of not being able to “sell himself.” He only got this last promotion because his manager is just like him so recognized his abilities.
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