spanking employees

[swamp]

www.watertowndailytimes.com/national/spanking-a-female-employee-alabama-newspaper-executive-admits-he-did-it-20180103


WTF?

And, the first comment is, this happened 40 years ago, this must be fake news.  

[grumpyhermit]

The way I read that comment was that because they kept it hidden for 40 years, they couldn't be trusted to tell the truth about other things. Not that the incident itself was fake.

Regardless, the story itself read like something you would see on the Onion.

[Tennesseer]

Alabama: Roy Moore and H. Brandt Ayers.  The seventies must have been pretty bad in Alabama.

[Opti]

This is bad. I copied this, but then it got worse.

Ayers, now 82, told the Anniston Star he spanked the woman in her home. He claimed the woman, who worked at the Star between 1973 and 1974, had been psychologically ill, and a doctor had suggested he “calm her down,” Ayers told the Star. When Ayers asked the doctor if spanking would work, the doctor said it would, Ayers said. Ayers told the Star he could not recall the name of the physician.

[Opti]

And just for grins, here's the one comment, who makes an OK point and then ruins it not understanding what fake news is. Sigh. Too many people not smart enough to come up with a phrase that says we do not trust this news source.   (And I wouldn't call it sexual assault. Just assault that only was inflicted on women.)

This is a great example of why no one trusts the media. Sexual assault taking place in a newsroom. No one says a word for 40 yrs. Yet we are supposed to believe they are the just and fair arbiters of what news we need to know. #fakenews

[beergut]

I just doubt one part of the story. 

“I was fighting him the whole time. Trying to kick him. Bite him. Scratch him. Whatever I could do,” Kennedy told Alabama Political Reporter. Then Ayers told her, “Well, that ought to teach you to not be a bad girl.”

I have a hard time believing a 40 year old man could hold down a 22 year old woman and spank her 18 times with a pica pole if she actively fought him. 

I could believe her if she said she didn't fight him because she feared for her job. I just don't believe this part of her claim. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 3, 2018 16:03:51 GMT -5 beergut said:

I just doubt one part of the story. 

“I was fighting him the whole time. Trying to kick him. Bite him. Scratch him. Whatever I could do,” Kennedy told Alabama Political Reporter. Then Ayers told her, “Well, that ought to teach you to not be a bad girl.”

I have a hard time believing a 40 year old man could hold down a 22 year old woman and spank her 18 times with a pica pole if she actively fought him. 

I could believe her if she said she didn't fight him because she feared for her job. I just don't believe this part of her claim. 

Why is that unbelievable?   DH is 10 year old than but he outclasses me in terms of weight and muscle.  I'm about 95 lbs soaking wet.  When we are joking around if he can get me in a position where he can use his weight as leverage I pretty much automatically lose. 

[beergut]

Jan 3, 2018 16:39:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 3, 2018 16:03:51 GMT -5 beergut said:

I just doubt one part of the story. 



I have a hard time believing a 40 year old man could hold down a 22 year old woman and spank her 18 times with a pica pole if she actively fought him. 

I could believe her if she said she didn't fight him because she feared for her job. I just don't believe this part of her claim. 

Why is that unbelievable?   DH is 10 year old than but he outclasses me in terms of weight and muscle.  I'm about 95 lbs soaking wet.  When we are joking around if he can get me in a position where he can use his weight as leverage I pretty much automatically lose. 

Do you honestly think he could forcibly bend you over a table and then spank you with a ruler and hold you there if you were actively fighting back?

Besides, size and weight isn't everything. Defensive tactics trainer for Dallas police academy is 6'4 250 lbs of pure muscle. He said the worst fight he was ever in was against a 95 lb woman who was 5'2. Said she moved like a cat. 

[Tiny]

Jan 3, 2018 16:59:26 GMT -5 beergut said:

Jan 3, 2018 16:39:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Why is that unbelievable?   DH is 10 year old than but he outclasses me in terms of weight and muscle.  I'm about 95 lbs soaking wet.  When we are joking around if he can get me in a position where he can use his weight as leverage I pretty much automatically lose. 

Do you honestly think he could forcibly bend you over a table and then spank you with a ruler and hold you there if you were actively fighting back?

Besides, size and weight isn't everything. Defensive tactics trainer for Dallas police academy is 6'4 250 lbs of pure muscle. He said the worst fight he was ever in was against a 95 lb woman who was 5'2. Said she moved like a cat. 

Yes, I totally think a 40 year old guy could forcibly bend a woman (22 or whatever age)  over a table and hold her down while doing whatever else he wanted to do.  It's not so much about age but about size and strength and leverage.  A good solid painful grip on an upper arm or wrist/hand  (or shoulder) and a bit of twisting by someone bigger/stronger its pretty painful and surprising and a great way to start out getting the upper hand.  Once your down - that's it. (well, pretty much).  

I'm not gonna go to the 'dress code' for women at work... not that she was 'asking for it' but that heels and constricting clothing are not particularly conducive to 'fighting' off a guy.  

There's also the 'pounded into our heads" thing that children and especially girls get taught from childhood - never question authority and men are always an authority.  And that fighting is BAD.  Always BAD.    So yeah, I can totally see a guy being able to overpower a woman (especially in a situation where it's totally unexpected).    

Do you NOT have older bigger siblings?  Were you NOT ever threatened in GS or HS by someone bigger/heavier than you?

[beergut]

I'm still calling BS on the fighting back part. 

This isn't playing around, and while I can believe he may have picked up the chair with her in it (which could be seen by some as playful), I don't buy her claims that she fought and kicked and clawed. If she had been that violent, someone else would have stepped in. 

He may have surprised her, she may have acquiesced out of fear of losing her job, but she didn't fight him. 

[Virgil Showlion]

No doubt somebody will write a bestselling book series about it.

[alabamagal]

The guy admitted that he did it! It is not fake news.

[Deleted]

I have to admit, my mind didn't go to "corporate America of the 70's" when I saw the thread title...

[Opti]

Jan 3, 2018 16:59:26 GMT -5 beergut said:

Jan 3, 2018 16:39:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Why is that unbelievable?   DH is 10 year old than but he outclasses me in terms of weight and muscle.  I'm about 95 lbs soaking wet.  When we are joking around if he can get me in a position where he can use his weight as leverage I pretty much automatically lose. 

Do you honestly think he could forcibly bend you over a table and then spank you with a ruler and hold you there if you were actively fighting back?

Besides, size and weight isn't everything. Defensive tactics trainer for Dallas police academy is 6'4 250 lbs of pure muscle. He said the worst fight he was ever in was against a 95 lb woman who was 5'2. Said she moved like a cat. 

There's a huge difference between a trained fighter who expects a fight and an untrained one who does not expect to be assaulted.

As to your other claim some one would help if she was loud enough, you are forgetting this is the owner of the company, the most important man in town, in the county and the nearby area. Very few people are going to take that on possibly endangering their livelihood forever unless they move, without thinking on it first.

[beergut]

Jan 4, 2018 6:37:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 3, 2018 16:59:26 GMT -5 beergut said:

Do you honestly think he could forcibly bend you over a table and then spank you with a ruler and hold you there if you were actively fighting back?

Besides, size and weight isn't everything. Defensive tactics trainer for Dallas police academy is 6'4 250 lbs of pure muscle. He said the worst fight he was ever in was against a 95 lb woman who was 5'2. Said she moved like a cat. 

There's a huge difference between a trained fighter who expects a fight and an untrained one who does not expect to be assaulted.

As to your other claim some one would help if she was loud enough, you are forgetting this is the owner of the company, the most important man in town, in the county and the nearby area. Very few people are going to take that on possibly endangering their livelihood forever unless they move, without thinking on it first.

He was the trained fighter, and he got his ass kicked, by his own admission. 

I'm just pointing out that size isn't always the determining factor. 

[milee]

Jan 3, 2018 17:36:35 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Jan 3, 2018 16:59:26 GMT -5 beergut said:

....

There's also the 'pounded into our heads" thing that children and especially girls get taught from childhood - never question authority and men are always an authority.  And that fighting is BAD.  Always BAD.    So yeah, I can totally see a guy being able to overpower a woman (especially in a situation where it's totally unexpected).    

....

Working out at a boxing gym made me realize just how deep societal conditioning can go to influence behavior.  I'm not especially demure, but the first time I had to hit "Bob" (a lifelike artificial torso and head on a stand), it was very awkward and I didn't want to.  Thought about it a little bit and realized that even though this thing was clearly fake, it just went against every fiber of me to actually hit a person - societal conditioning.  Hard to explain the gut reaction and aversion.  Maybe men would understand or get a feeling for the inbuilt aversion if "Bob" were a smiling, helpless infant they were supposed to hit.

As for the idea that the woman could have fought this guy off, that's ignoring the context of what was happening.  This man was not only a respected public figure who could ruin her career and social life, he was her boss, so in addition to all the societal conditioning for women not to ever hit anybody, she was likely hugely intellectually conflicted over how to respond.  Add in the fact that he described also talking about spanking with his wife, and it's likely that he viewed this as "flirting" behavior.  In other words, he did this because he was turned on and wanted to show dominance in a sexual context, so was probably smiling/smirking, giving off "playful" vibes.  So when he first picked her up in the chair, smiling and flirting, she was probably annoyed but didn't feel overly threatened - maybe gave him a weak backward slap or an elbow, but wouldn't be in hardcore "fight a predator off" mode or anything.  And again, runningthrough her mind is - this is my boss, daddy knows this guy, OMG he's flirting with me, I'm embarrassed that people are watching, etc.  She's not fighting like a cage fighter.  Then when he dumped her face down on the desk and grabbed the ruler, she may have realized she needed to actually fight back but by then it's too late.  She's pinned face down and any efforts to hit behind her are not going to be very effective.  So yes, I think it's very plausible that she did fight back, but by the time she worked through the fact that she was truly in trouble and needed to fight, got over her aversions to fighting, etc, she was in a spot where whatever she did wasn't effective.

By the way, I especially love the fact that even though this is a clear case of inappropriate behavior, that both parties involved agree on the basic facts and there's even a witness who supports the story, we still have jackasses who question the woman's part or if she resisted properly.  We're such hypocrites in this country to rail against Sharia law that requires 4 men witnessing a rape to testify for a conviction... we believe the same thing, we just don't say it out loud.  

[gooddecisions]

Everytime my husband tickles me, I am always surprised how difficult it is to get him to stop. I pinch and push and am still stuck until he realizes it's not funny. He's not likely using half his strength as he's just kidding around.

I am tall and he is average, so we're the same size approximately. It's an eye opener for me for if I were up against a real threat and predator.

[milee]

Every.  Single.  Time. 

And we wonder why women don't bother to report things or why when they do they are not believed or nothing happens...

Inexcusable action - by anyone's definition - happens.  Both perpetrator and victim agree on basic facts of incident (rare) and there is even a witness to incident.  Public reaction:

- Awful!
- Lengthy discussion about whether woman really fought back and how she is either lying or didn't fight hard
- Expression of impatience that we have to listen to another sexual harassment story and implication that someone is trying to cash in on the story
- Continued debate on what the woman did - did she fight, would she fight, what was she wearing

Gee, why don't women say anything?  Followed soon by discussion of how the issue must not be that bad because nobody is saying anything...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 4, 2018 10:35:31 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

Everytime my husband tickles me, I am always surprised how difficult it is to get him to stop. I pinch and push and am still stuck until he realizes it's not funny. He's not likely using half his strength as he's just kidding around.

I am tall and he is average, so we're the same size approximately. It's an eye opener for me for if I were up against a real threat and predator.

Exactly.  If I get the jump on DH sometimes I can get him pretty good.   I almost broke his nose one time because I slammed my palm upward into his face. 

However if he can get the jump on me he can easily roll me over onto my stomach which is when his weight/strength become an advantage.  He's only using a fraction of the amount of force he could use.  He has also admitted than when I try to attack from that position it really doesn't hurt as much as I think it does.  He backs off because we're playing.   In an actual fight against him if he was intent on harming me, I'd lose hands down.

A sparring match between a boxer and his opponent is not remotely the same as your boss pinning you down to spank you.  In a scripted fight you know what to expect from your opponent, size differences aren't as big an issue if you know what you are doing. You have time to prepare and respond.  There are rules to the engagement you both agree to follow.

Nobody in their right mind expects their boss to decide he wants to spank you and it's in those moments when your brain is processing WTF just happened that you lose ground.   That's why the boss doesn't come up to you and announce "Hey I found this ruler and I really want to hit you with it, do you mind if I pin you to my desk for a moment?"

[milee]

And in case anyone wonders why this still matters - the Spanker is the current Chairman of the company that owns 6 newspapers; although said Spanker acknowledges spanking multiple female employees, he says he sees no reason that he should resign.  Furthermore, when a reporter first discovered these allegations (before they were made public), that reporter happened to work for one of the 6 newspapers managed by the Spanker.  When the reporter wanted to pursue and report on the story his employer (one of the 6 papers managed by the Spanker) would not publish and put the story on hold.  Although the editor now claims he wasn't killing the story, just holding it until they could determine how to report on certain topics, the fact is that the paper managed by the Spanker did not publish the story until after the reporter quit and submitted the story to a rival newspaper that published it.

In other words, the Spanker controls the news that is published in 6 newspapers, which has resulted in suppressing reports about his own bad behavior.  Yet he continues to be the Chairman and nobody feels this is a problem.

It's a problem.  Instead of talking about what the women did or were wearing or how tired we are of hearing of this, we should be focusing on how to get rid of Sir Spanker and any other people in power who have harassed or assaulted their employees.  Why is this not the major source of discussion and outrage?  Why do we allow this person - and others like him - to stay in their positions of power?  

[cktc]

Jan 3, 2018 16:03:51 GMT -5 beergut said:

I just doubt one part of the story. 

“I was fighting him the whole time. Trying to kick him. Bite him. Scratch him. Whatever I could do,” Kennedy told Alabama Political Reporter. Then Ayers told her, “Well, that ought to teach you to not be a bad girl.”

I have a hard time believing a 40 year old man could hold down a 22 year old woman and spank her 18 times with a pica pole if she actively fought him. 

I could believe her if she said she didn't fight him because she feared for her job. I just don't believe this part of her claim. 

Could you be a little more explicit about what you are trying to imply? That it was consensual? That she enjoyed it? Why does how hard she fought him even matter? 

[MJ2.0]

Jan 4, 2018 3:36:29 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I have to admit, my mind didn't go to "corporate America of the 70's" when I saw the thread title...

right?!

[beergut]

Jan 4, 2018 12:24:01 GMT -5 cktc said:

Jan 3, 2018 16:03:51 GMT -5 beergut said:

I just doubt one part of the story. 



I have a hard time believing a 40 year old man could hold down a 22 year old woman and spank her 18 times with a pica pole if she actively fought him. 

I could believe her if she said she didn't fight him because she feared for her job. I just don't believe this part of her claim. 

Could you be a little more explicit about what you are trying to imply? That it was consensual? That she enjoyed it? Why does how hard she fought him even matter? 

 I think she completely froze up in the moment, not believing this was going to happen/shocked it was happening, and didn't actively do anything because of that shock/disbelief. I think she was humiliated at the time as it was happening in front of several witnesses, and barely fought back, if at all. I think looking back here 40 years later, she is embarrassed by her reaction, even ashamed of her reaction, so she's embellished how hard she fought him both to make the assault sound more realistic, and to ameliorate her own embarrassment. 

Her claim of how hard she fought matters because falsifying a detail like that hurts her credibility. If she had just said, "This was my boss, I was afraid for my job if I fought back", no one would question it. 

There is no doubt this happened, plenty of people have corroborated it, there is no need for her to embellish her side of the story. 

[beergut]

Jan 4, 2018 10:57:26 GMT -5 milee said:

Every.  Single.  Time. 

And we wonder why women don't bother to report things or why when they do they are not believed or nothing happens...

Inexcusable action - by anyone's definition - happens.  Both perpetrator and victim agree on basic facts of incident (rare) and there is even a witness to incident.  Public reaction:

- Awful!
- Lengthy discussion about whether woman really fought back and how she is either lying or didn't fight hard
- Expression of impatience that we have to listen to another sexual harassment story and implication that someone is trying to cash in on the story
- Continued debate on what the woman did - did she fight, would she fight, what was she wearing

Gee, why don't women say anything?  Followed soon by discussion of how the issue must not be that bad because nobody is saying anything...

 It used to be you could take a woman at her word that something happened. 

Then Obama and his bullshit Title IX committees at colleges across the nation happened. And merely being accused of something if you were a male meant you were guilty. There are lawsuits currently filed against multiple universities for sexual discrimination by the universities against MEN. 

There are women out there who have weaponized the accusation of sexual assault. Hell, sexual assault isn't even sexual assault anymore!! Sexual assault used to mean you were raped. Now women claim they were 'sexually assaulted' when they walk into a bar on a Friday night and some guy pinches their butt. That isn't appropriate behavior, but it isn't rape, either. Because of women who don't know what sexual assault really is, because of women who use the accusation of sexual assault to punish men they're angry with, we've been forced to analyze every accusation made now. 

I used to believe any woman who said they were raped, because who would make that up? Now, after seeing several cases of men spending time in prison for false accusations, after seeing women prosecuted for false accusations, my first reaction is skepticism. I have friends who are police, and even they say they hear way too many false accusations. It completely sucks, but some bad actors have screwed it up for everyone else. 

[midjd]

“Sexual assault” has a specific legal definition. So does rape. They’ve never been the same thing.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2018 22:38:36 GMT -5 beergut said:

Jan 4, 2018 10:57:26 GMT -5 milee said:

Every.  Single.  Time. 

And we wonder why women don't bother to report things or why when they do they are not believed or nothing happens...

Inexcusable action - by anyone's definition - happens.  Both perpetrator and victim agree on basic facts of incident (rare) and there is even a witness to incident.  Public reaction:

- Awful!
- Lengthy discussion about whether woman really fought back and how she is either lying or didn't fight hard
- Expression of impatience that we have to listen to another sexual harassment story and implication that someone is trying to cash in on the story
- Continued debate on what the woman did - did she fight, would she fight, what was she wearing

Gee, why don't women say anything?  Followed soon by discussion of how the issue must not be that bad because nobody is saying anything...

 It used to be you could take a woman at her word that something happened. 

Then Obama and his bullshit Title IX committees at colleges across the nation happened. And merely being accused of something if you were a male meant you were guilty. There are lawsuits currently filed against multiple universities for sexual discrimination by the universities against MEN. 

There are women out there who have weaponized the accusation of sexual assault. Hell, sexual assault isn't even sexual assault anymore!! Sexual assault used to mean you were raped. Now women claim they were 'sexually assaulted' when they walk into a bar on a Friday night and some guy pinches their butt. That isn't appropriate behavior, but it isn't rape, either. Because of women who don't know what sexual assault really is, because of women who use the accusation of sexual assault to punish men they're angry with, we've been forced to analyze every accusation made now. 

I used to believe any woman who said they were raped, because who would make that up? Now, after seeing several cases of men spending time in prison for false accusations, after seeing women prosecuted for false accusations, my first reaction is skepticism. I have friends who are police, and even they say they hear way too many false accusations. It completely sucks, but some bad actors have screwed it up for everyone else. 

Sadly, I agree with this. 

Too many false reports have been made for the "knee jerk" reaction to still be "If she claimed it, it must have happened". It sucks sometimes, but, the burden of proof falls to the accuser to prove guilt...  not to the accused to prove innocence.

[alabamagal]

Don't be too concerned about whether to believe the women or not since the guy admitted to the spankings.  He was just doing it for their own good, or per doctor's orders.

Now he has resigned.


www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/index.ssf/2018/01/h_brandt_ayers_anniston_stars.html#incart_river_home

But don't feel too bad for the guy, doesn't look like he will be going to live in the poorhouse since his wife will be taking over for him.

[swamp]

Jan 4, 2018 10:57:26 GMT -5 milee said:

Every.  Single.  Time. 

And we wonder why women don't bother to report things or why when they do they are not believed or nothing happens...

Inexcusable action - by anyone's definition - happens.  Both perpetrator and victim agree on basic facts of incident (rare) and there is even a witness to incident.  Public reaction:

- Awful!
- Lengthy discussion about whether woman really fought back and how she is either lying or didn't fight hard
- Expression of impatience that we have to listen to another sexual harassment story and implication that someone is trying to cash in on the story
- Continued debate on what the woman did - did she fight, would she fight, what was she wearing

Gee, why don't women say anything?  Followed soon by discussion of how the issue must not be that bad because nobody is saying anything...

Which is why i like to post these types of stories without editorializing my opinion.  I want to see where the discussion goes on the story without starting with my thoughts.  And EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. it goes as you state. 

[milee]

Jan 4, 2018 22:38:36 GMT -5 beergut said:

Jan 4, 2018 10:57:26 GMT -5 milee said:

Every.  Single.  Time. 

And we wonder why women don't bother to report things or why when they do they are not believed or nothing happens...

Inexcusable action - by anyone's definition - happens.  Both perpetrator and victim agree on basic facts of incident (rare) and there is even a witness to incident.  Public reaction:

- Awful!
- Lengthy discussion about whether woman really fought back and how she is either lying or didn't fight hard
- Expression of impatience that we have to listen to another sexual harassment story and implication that someone is trying to cash in on the story
- Continued debate on what the woman did - did she fight, would she fight, what was she wearing

Gee, why don't women say anything?  Followed soon by discussion of how the issue must not be that bad because nobody is saying anything...

 It used to be you could take a woman at her word that something happened. 

Then Obama and his bullshit Title IX committees at colleges across the nation happened. And merely being accused of something if you were a male meant you were guilty. There are lawsuits currently filed against multiple universities for sexual discrimination by the universities against MEN. 

There are women out there who have weaponized the accusation of sexual assault. Hell, sexual assault isn't even sexual assault anymore!! Sexual assault used to mean you were raped. Now women claim they were 'sexually assaulted' when they walk into a bar on a Friday night and some guy pinches their butt. That isn't appropriate behavior, but it isn't rape, either. Because of women who don't know what sexual assault really is, because of women who use the accusation of sexual assault to punish men they're angry with, we've been forced to analyze every accusation made now. 

I used to believe any woman who said they were raped, because who would make that up? Now, after seeing several cases of men spending time in prison for false accusations, after seeing women prosecuted for false accusations, my first reaction is skepticism. I have friends who are police, and even they say they hear way too many false accusations. It completely sucks, but some bad actors have screwed it up for everyone else. 

If your prior experience leads you to question a case where not only the women involved, but the perpetrator both agree there was a spanking - oh and let's not forget the witness who was also a man - then there is no use discussing the issue with you further because you have already decided all reports are false.  

For all others who might want to examine or discuss the issue further...

The fact that there have been false reports doesn't mean all reports are false or should be assumed to be false.  The fact that there have been instances of assault that have gone unreported or reported but unpunished do not mean that every accused abuser is guilty and all men should be assumed to be guilty.  It's reasonable to look at the evidence.  The facts here are fairly clear since they're not only undisputed by the abuser but there is also a witness who was willing to go on record verifying the events.  To ignore such a strong set of facts is to show either clear bias or the inability to comprehend logic.

It's funny to even try to picture why it might be relevant whether or not the woman in this case fought back.  If she didn't fight back or didn't fight back effectively this still would be a case of gross misconduct and assault.  The idea that her fight or level of fight was in any way a factor is laughable.

[beergut]

 I don't know if you just want to argue or what, but I have never disputed that an incident happened. Hell, the accused even said it happened. (After 40 years, I'm sure he probably doesn't recall that particular incident, as he did it multiple times and they probably all run together all these years later, which is why I'm sure he didn't dispute the account.)

I'm merely saying the one part of her story I don't believe is her account of how hard she fought him. That's it.