grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Dec 11, 2017 11:19:36 GMT -5
Ok. So I do buy canned food. Garbanzo beans and Walnut Acres Baked Beans for when I feel the need. I just don't do beans often? I can't do black beans at all. I buy dry beans if I want to make chili, but that's maybe twice a year? I'm trying to think if I ever saw dried garbanzo beans? Goya dried garbanzos are awesome - around here you find them in the "Hispanic" food section. Cooking beans is one thing those new multicookers - like Instant Pot or the Fagor Lux I have - are the bomb for. Using the pressure cook function means you don't even have to soak the beans and they still come out great! I still soak for certain recipes because I'm cooking the beans another way. With the multicooker, you can cook dried beans from the bag to done in less than 30 minutes and they're really nice texture. I've never been able to get the best texture out of dried beans out of a crock pot (they're edible just not as good a texture), but the multicooker rocks. A friend of mine recently joined the cult of Instant-Pot, and keeps trying to talk me into one. I haven't really seen much point to it, but maybe I will finally take the plunge. I'm impatient, and even if most of the time with beans is hands off, the idea of waiting that long for anything irritates me. It also means I have to plan my meals a day ahead, which I almost never do.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 11, 2017 11:22:22 GMT -5
in my cart I do some fresh veggies, some frozen, and fresh fruits for sure. Yeah I have some cheez-its, pop corners, and wheat-thins, (and frozen pizza, sometimes cookies... ) but I always have a balanced meal plan for the week. Yes I'm making chicken and dumplings in the slow cooker now, and that includes 2 cans of cream of chicken soup (low sodium, low fat version) and a bag of mixed veggies. I maintain that it's healthier than eating McDs or those nasty Kid's Cuisine meals I used to eat as a kid. Would you judge my cart? Where do we draw the line? Canned soups/pastas/chilis are laden with salt, should they be off limits to the poor getting bennies? What about dried fruit? Or salted nuts? Since I was the one that said I can be judgy, I'll take a stab at this. Are you paying for your own groceries and is your kid within the range of normal weight and behavior so he's not disrupting my kids' school? Then it's not my business and whatever you're doing seems to be working. IRL, I'm not usually too aware of what other people are buying, I'm too focused on getting in and out of the store quickly with all the stuff on my list so this is just theoretical anyway. If we're talking about what we feed kids for the school lunch program and what people should be able to buy with food stamp and all those related programs, my opinion - and I'm aware it's not necessarily the mainstream one - is generally this: - Any food provided by tax dollars should be reasonably healthy or at least not known to generally contribute to health problems. Obviously there will be debate about what that means but in general IMO that means produce of all kinds (fresh, frozen, canned, dried), basics used to cook, unprocessed foods. Things that just flat out shouldn't be bought with taxpayer money - soda, candy, baked goods (exception - whole grain bread, tortillas), juice, most processed foods.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Dec 11, 2017 11:31:21 GMT -5
in my cart I do some fresh veggies, some frozen, and fresh fruits for sure. Yeah I have some cheez-its, pop corners, and wheat-thins, (and frozen pizza, sometimes cookies... ) but I always have a balanced meal plan for the week. Yes I'm making chicken and dumplings in the slow cooker now, and that includes 2 cans of cream of chicken soup (low sodium, low fat version) and a bag of mixed veggies. I maintain that it's healthier than eating McDs or those nasty Kid's Cuisine meals I used to eat as a kid. Would you judge my cart? Where do we draw the line? Canned soups/pastas/chilis are laden with salt, should they be off limits to the poor getting bennies? What about dried fruit? Or salted nuts? I would judge your frozen pizza. Fresh is the only way to go. I started keeping a bowl of no-knead pizza dough in my fridge about 3 years ago (keeps about 2 weeks), and haven't looked back since. Cooks faster than a frozen pizza, and the only thing you need to keep fresh on hand is some good mozzarella (I freeze the sauce in an ice cube tray and defrost as needed). And a pizza stone. A rolling pin also helps. Oh, and a baking mat to transfer the pizza to the stone.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 11, 2017 11:32:06 GMT -5
in my cart I do some fresh veggies, some frozen, and fresh fruits for sure. Yeah I have some cheez-its, pop corners, and wheat-thins, (and frozen pizza, sometimes cookies... ) but I always have a balanced meal plan for the week. Yes I'm making chicken and dumplings in the slow cooker now, and that includes 2 cans of cream of chicken soup (low sodium, low fat version) and a bag of mixed veggies. I maintain that it's healthier than eating McDs or those nasty Kid's Cuisine meals I used to eat as a kid. Would you judge my cart? Where do we draw the line? Canned soups/pastas/chilis are laden with salt, should they be off limits to the poor getting bennies? What about dried fruit? Or salted nuts? Since I was the one that said I can be judgy, I'll take a stab at this. Are you paying for your own groceries and is your kid within the range of normal weight and behavior so he's not disrupting my kids' school? Then it's not my business and whatever you're doing seems to be working. IRL, I'm not usually too aware of what other people are buying, I'm too focused on getting in and out of the store quickly with all the stuff on my list so this is just theoretical anyway. If we're talking about what we feed kids for the school lunch program and what people should be able to buy with food stamp and all those related programs, my opinion - and I'm aware it's not necessarily the mainstream one - is generally this: - Any food provided by tax dollars should be reasonably healthy or at least not known to generally contribute to health problems. Obviously there will be debate about what that means but in general IMO that means produce of all kinds (fresh, frozen, canned, dried), basics used to cook, unprocessed foods. Things that just flat out shouldn't be bought with taxpayer money - soda, candy, baked goods (exception - whole grain bread, tortillas), juice, most processed foods.
I generally agree here. I should not subsidize candy and junk. But the whole "apples are cheaper than chips" argument is that they're not really. I can buy a bag of chips for less than $2 at Aldi. A bag of apples is $3-4. Not to mention chips will stay edible far longer than apples will. Ramen, Kraft mac + cheese, Spaghettios, etc - all junk IMO but they are cheap, filling, and shelf stable. I wouldn't be opposed to finding healthier and more cost effective ways to can/preserve fruits. Junk should NOT be cheaper than fresh food. Soda is BLECH so IMO it should be outright banned.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 11, 2017 11:34:20 GMT -5
in my cart I do some fresh veggies, some frozen, and fresh fruits for sure. Yeah I have some cheez-its, pop corners, and wheat-thins, (and frozen pizza, sometimes cookies... ) but I always have a balanced meal plan for the week. Yes I'm making chicken and dumplings in the slow cooker now, and that includes 2 cans of cream of chicken soup (low sodium, low fat version) and a bag of mixed veggies. I maintain that it's healthier than eating McDs or those nasty Kid's Cuisine meals I used to eat as a kid. Would you judge my cart? Where do we draw the line? Canned soups/pastas/chilis are laden with salt, should they be off limits to the poor getting bennies? What about dried fruit? Or salted nuts? I would judge your frozen pizza. Fresh is the only way to go. I started keeping a bowl of no-knead pizza dough in my fridge about 3 years ago (keeps about 2 weeks), and haven't looked back since. Cooks faster than a frozen pizza, and the only thing you need to keep fresh on hand is some good mozzarella (I freeze the sauce in an ice cube tray and defrost as needed). And a pizza stone. A rolling pin also helps. Oh, and a baking mat to transfer the pizza to the stone. for the cost of all that, I could get 3 frozen pizzas. I do have a ball of pizza dough in the freezer but didn't have the sauce I needed. Plus I'm lazy.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Dec 11, 2017 11:40:23 GMT -5
in my cart I do some fresh veggies, some frozen, and fresh fruits for sure. Yeah I have some cheez-its, pop corners, and wheat-thins, (and frozen pizza, sometimes cookies... ) but I always have a balanced meal plan for the week. Yes I'm making chicken and dumplings in the slow cooker now, and that includes 2 cans of cream of chicken soup (low sodium, low fat version) and a bag of mixed veggies. I maintain that it's healthier than eating McDs or those nasty Kid's Cuisine meals I used to eat as a kid. Would you judge my cart? Where do we draw the line? Canned soups/pastas/chilis are laden with salt, should they be off limits to the poor getting bennies? What about dried fruit? Or salted nuts? Since I was the one that said I can be judgy, I'll take a stab at this. Are you paying for your own groceries and is your kid within the range of normal weight and behavior so he's not disrupting my kids' school? Then it's not my business and whatever you're doing seems to be working. IRL, I'm not usually too aware of what other people are buying, I'm too focused on getting in and out of the store quickly with all the stuff on my list so this is just theoretical anyway. If we're talking about what we feed kids for the school lunch program and what people should be able to buy with food stamp and all those related programs, my opinion - and I'm aware it's not necessarily the mainstream one - is generally this: - Any food provided by tax dollars should be reasonably healthy or at least not known to generally contribute to health problems. Obviously there will be debate about what that means but in general IMO that means produce of all kinds (fresh, frozen, canned, dried), basics used to cook, unprocessed foods. Things that just flat out shouldn't be bought with taxpayer money - soda, candy, baked goods (exception - whole grain bread, tortillas), juice, most processed foods. Well, that's the issue isn't it? You will never get the food lobbies to agree that their food is basically a health disaster. I actually don't disagree with you. If the food access issues could be addressed, I would be all in favor of modeling food benefits more on a WIC model, where there is a list of approved foods, and it consists of non-junk. However, getting politicians (or anyone) to agree on what "junk" is will be nigh on impossible.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Dec 11, 2017 11:47:23 GMT -5
I would judge your frozen pizza. Fresh is the only way to go. I started keeping a bowl of no-knead pizza dough in my fridge about 3 years ago (keeps about 2 weeks), and haven't looked back since. Cooks faster than a frozen pizza, and the only thing you need to keep fresh on hand is some good mozzarella (I freeze the sauce in an ice cube tray and defrost as needed). And a pizza stone. A rolling pin also helps. Oh, and a baking mat to transfer the pizza to the stone. for the cost of all that, I could get 3 frozen pizzas. I do have a ball of pizza dough in the freezer but didn't have the sauce I needed. Plus I'm lazy. Oh, I am super lazy as well. I just hate cardboard pizza more. It helps if you have all the baking stuff on hand (which I do). Good mozzarella is subjective. My one requirement is that it is not per-shredded. There is difference in brands, but I am happy with the Red Dragone brand (about 4.79 for a block). I can get about...3-5 small, 10-inch pizzas out of it. For sauce I just get a can of crushed tomatoes, and add garlic and random spices, then freeze it. 2-3 cubes typically is enough sauce for a 10-inch. I could do a lot more with the sauce but....lazy. Reading all that, it sounds like a lot of hassle, but I have found it to be faster, more convenient, and tastier than frozen. However, I have also been known to bake bread instead of going to the store, so my idea of "easier" may be a bit different.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 11, 2017 12:09:12 GMT -5
Since I was the one that said I can be judgy, I'll take a stab at this. Are you paying for your own groceries and is your kid within the range of normal weight and behavior so he's not disrupting my kids' school? Then it's not my business and whatever you're doing seems to be working. IRL, I'm not usually too aware of what other people are buying, I'm too focused on getting in and out of the store quickly with all the stuff on my list so this is just theoretical anyway. If we're talking about what we feed kids for the school lunch program and what people should be able to buy with food stamp and all those related programs, my opinion - and I'm aware it's not necessarily the mainstream one - is generally this: - Any food provided by tax dollars should be reasonably healthy or at least not known to generally contribute to health problems. Obviously there will be debate about what that means but in general IMO that means produce of all kinds (fresh, frozen, canned, dried), basics used to cook, unprocessed foods. Things that just flat out shouldn't be bought with taxpayer money - soda, candy, baked goods (exception - whole grain bread, tortillas), juice, most processed foods. Well, that's the issue isn't it? You will never get the food lobbies to agree that their food is basically a health disaster. I actually don't disagree with you. If the food access issues could be addressed, I would be all in favor of modeling food benefits more on a WIC model, where there is a list of approved foods, and it consists of non-junk. However, getting politicians (or anyone) to agree on what "junk" is will be nigh on impossible. I started paying attention to what is WIC and food stamp approved on the shelves and from a logical standpoint it makes zero sense. However when you take into consideration that Kraft likely makes large campagin contributions suddenly it makes a lot more sense. There is also the problem with the backlash over making things accessible to poor people. There was a HUGE backlash in when they decided to accept food stamps at the Omaha farmer's market. The idea was that this helps people buy healthy food AND it directly benefits the farmers who produce the food. The booths that get approved to accept stamps have to meet certain guidelines in regards to their products to be allowed to accept them. You won't see the kettle corn guy getting food stamps for example. People were outraged that poor people would be able to go to "their" market. Poor people shouldn't be allowed such luxuries as going to the farmer's market. It's crazy. Even with the numbers showing that obesity rates are going down and it's helping farmers' bottom lines people still want to get rid of the program. People apparently are afraid they might get "poor people germs" if they happen to shop at the same stand. Make up your freaking minds. Either you want people to only eat fresh foods, which means you need to give them access. Or you want them kept in their ghettos so you don't have to look at them which means you need to make gas station foods food stamp approved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 12:11:29 GMT -5
My cart looks weird because of how I shop. I get veggies delivered through a CSA. I buy meat through a co-op so a lot of the time my cart is liquids, junk food, and baking supplies. This is me. I used to laugh that I go to the natural food store and my cart is almost all junk. Because that's where I buy my cookies and chocolate and crackers (although Giant has gotten MUCH better about this, so that applies there now instead/as well). I do buy some fruits and veggies, but we also garden and CSA. And I belong to meat CSA, buy direct from provider and have lots of venison and moose in my freezer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 12:12:15 GMT -5
WIC is muuuuch better than Food Stamps in my opinion. I'd like if food stamps was run more like that.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 11, 2017 12:14:16 GMT -5
It could be easily done.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 12:15:01 GMT -5
One of the girls had a coke last week and I had this crazy urge. I was like, give me a sip and got out a shot glass... she was like, a shot of coke... and I was like, that will be enough. And yeah, it was horrible.
I do like a blue sky ginger ale on occasion, especially if i'm sick.
I'm such as snob.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 12:15:28 GMT -5
Easy but for the lobby issue you mean
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 11, 2017 12:33:05 GMT -5
.... But the whole "apples are cheaper than chips" argument is that they're not really. I can buy a bag of chips for less than $2 at Aldi. A bag of apples is $3-4. Not to mention chips will stay edible far longer than apples will. Ramen, Kraft mac + cheese, Spaghettios, etc - all junk IMO but they are cheap, filling, and shelf stable. I wouldn't be opposed to finding healthier and more cost effective ways to can/preserve fruits. Junk should NOT be cheaper than fresh food. .... A lot of this depends on why we're eating. Seriously. Are we eating to fill an empty belly? Are we eating to provide nutrition for health? Are we eating to get a "good" feeling, no matter how temporary? I know that sounds touchy feely, but that's at the heart of why there's so much controversy IMO. It's common for people to just be eating to fill an emptiness or get a temporary "good" feeling - which any old crap will do if you're ignoring the idea that food is actually a key part of good nutrition and health. Heck, why bother with pizza, dirt is even cheaper and will fill you up. Or even sugar for that matter - can fill you up and tastes good so gives you that temp good feeling; eat it by the spoonful, it's cheap. If all we care about are those things - keeping the belly full and temporary good taste/feeling - feed everybody dirt and sugar and move along. If we're feeling generous, we'll toss in some Kraft crap for variety. All shelf stable! It's only "cheaper" if you're ignoring how much it costs to go to the dentist to get a cavity filled or how much that heart attack or diabetes will cost you. In other words, it's short term thinking or flat out ignoring stuff you won't have to pay for anyway. Pizza, dirt, sugar, Kraft crap... none of it is less expensive than apples if you consider both the short term and long term cost.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 11, 2017 12:45:25 GMT -5
.... But the whole "apples are cheaper than chips" argument is that they're not really. I can buy a bag of chips for less than $2 at Aldi. A bag of apples is $3-4. Not to mention chips will stay edible far longer than apples will. Ramen, Kraft mac + cheese, Spaghettios, etc - all junk IMO but they are cheap, filling, and shelf stable. I wouldn't be opposed to finding healthier and more cost effective ways to can/preserve fruits. Junk should NOT be cheaper than fresh food. .... A lot of this depends on why we're eating. Seriously. Are we eating to fill an empty belly? Are we eating to provide nutrition for health? Are we eating to get a "good" feeling, no matter how temporary? I know that sounds touchy feely, but that's at the heart of why there's so much controversy IMO. It's common for people to just be eating to fill an emptiness or get a temporary "good" feeling - which any old crap will do if you're ignoring the idea that food is actually a key part of good nutrition and health. Heck, why bother with pizza, dirt is even cheaper and will fill you up. Or even sugar for that matter - can fill you up and tastes good so gives you that temp good feeling; eat it by the spoonful, it's cheap. If all we care about are those things - keeping the belly full and temporary good taste/feeling - feed everybody dirt and sugar and move along. If we're feeling generous, we'll toss in some Kraft crap for variety. All shelf stable! It's only "cheaper" if you're ignoring how much it costs to go to the dentist to get a cavity filled or how much that heart attack or diabetes will cost you. In other words, it's short term thinking or flat out ignoring stuff you won't have to pay for anyway.
Pizza, dirt, sugar, Kraft crap... none of it is less expensive than apples if you consider both the short term and long term cost.I'm not sure if poor people are looking 10-15-20 yrs down the road if they are trying to get through the week/month. Not making excuses, just saying what the mindset is.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 11, 2017 12:45:45 GMT -5
Since I was the one that said I can be judgy, I'll take a stab at this. Are you paying for your own groceries and is your kid within the range of normal weight and behavior so he's not disrupting my kids' school? Then it's not my business and whatever you're doing seems to be working. IRL, I'm not usually too aware of what other people are buying, I'm too focused on getting in and out of the store quickly with all the stuff on my list so this is just theoretical anyway. If we're talking about what we feed kids for the school lunch program and what people should be able to buy with food stamp and all those related programs, my opinion - and I'm aware it's not necessarily the mainstream one - is generally this: - Any food provided by tax dollars should be reasonably healthy or at least not known to generally contribute to health problems. Obviously there will be debate about what that means but in general IMO that means produce of all kinds (fresh, frozen, canned, dried), basics used to cook, unprocessed foods. Things that just flat out shouldn't be bought with taxpayer money - soda, candy, baked goods (exception - whole grain bread, tortillas), juice, most processed foods. Well, that's the issue isn't it? You will never get the food lobbies to agree that their food is basically a health disaster. I actually don't disagree with you. If the food access issues could be addressed, I would be all in favor of modeling food benefits more on a WIC model, where there is a list of approved foods, and it consists of non-junk. However, getting politicians (or anyone) to agree on what "junk" is will be nigh on impossible. I think WIC costs the govt more money than SNAP does AND does not take into account things like food allergies or food sensitivities. IMO, its run like a bad heavy handed food pantry. You will take this, you can't substitute and there are no allowances or benefits to smart shopping.
Some people got jealous and thought food stamps were too high because unemployed and underemployed foodies had time to figure out how to shop the grocery stores. Where to find good stuff on discount. Had the unfortunate free time to get the meat and produce when it was first marked down.
I will always and continue to disagree with making SNAP like WIC. It removes all incentives to shop better. And I don't get why Milee and others feel entitled to determine food choices of recipients when we work and get food stamps. What the heck makes you so special then that I don't get to determine how you run your business (tax breaks funded by employees), how you care for your children (tax credits funded by childless people like myself), or what house you can buy if you used the $8K credit or qualify for mortgage credits? All of that is more than what I cost on SNAP one year.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Dec 11, 2017 12:53:23 GMT -5
I'm coming from this at an angle as a person who has never had kids. Who was for the most part self sufficient until age 43 in spite of multiple layoffs and a divorce. But things changed after 2001, and I was older & not Indian. I had been lied to. Marketing and networking in engineering was far more important than anyone had told me, especially since I was a non complaining hard working white woman. I am learning. Keep that in mind. And I am not learning what you think you are teaching me either. Yes, its all Indian people's fault that you are out of the Unix job. Ironical, on a thread titled "classist, elitist", you are talking how you deserved the job while an Indian did not.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 11, 2017 12:55:42 GMT -5
Yes, I get that. (Responding to MJ's post about poor people just focusing on that week not long term.)
One thing I'm missing, though, is what the level of hunger in the US actually is. Everybody is different and obviously even people with some weight to lose take time to lose weight and some of the process can be miserable, but "hunger" today appears to me to be different than hunger was when I was growing up.
When I was hungry growing up, we - and the other hungry people - were stick thin. Not to the point of the starving Syrian kids whose bellies get distended, but very, very thin. I was in my 20s before you couldn't clearly see each individual rib. I'd eat pretty much anything - even things I really didn't like at all - because I was hungry and eating the weird food was better than being that hungry.
This is not the case for "hungry" people today. The statistics show that children of parents on welfare and food stamps are actually heavier than the general population, with high percentage of them being obese. When I volunteer at the food bank, the people picking up food are not thin as was captured so well in a picture in our newpaper - 200 people in line and only one of them wasn't obviously overweight. Whatever we're feeding to poor people isn't helping.
If instead of subsidizing junk, we had a program where healthy foods were free if people were hungry - they would eat them. I know. Trust me, if you're hungry that weird bag of produce you've never seen before suddenly becomes edible. Or, if they truly would rather die than eat a vegetable, they'd somehow find work to pay for their junk just like people do now with cigarettes and alcohol.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 11, 2017 12:56:08 GMT -5
A lot of this depends on why we're eating. Seriously. Are we eating to fill an empty belly? Are we eating to provide nutrition for health? Are we eating to get a "good" feeling, no matter how temporary? I know that sounds touchy feely, but that's at the heart of why there's so much controversy IMO. It's common for people to just be eating to fill an emptiness or get a temporary "good" feeling - which any old crap will do if you're ignoring the idea that food is actually a key part of good nutrition and health. Heck, why bother with pizza, dirt is even cheaper and will fill you up. Or even sugar for that matter - can fill you up and tastes good so gives you that temp good feeling; eat it by the spoonful, it's cheap. If all we care about are those things - keeping the belly full and temporary good taste/feeling - feed everybody dirt and sugar and move along. If we're feeling generous, we'll toss in some Kraft crap for variety. All shelf stable! It's only "cheaper" if you're ignoring how much it costs to go to the dentist to get a cavity filled or how much that heart attack or diabetes will cost you. In other words, it's short term thinking or flat out ignoring stuff you won't have to pay for anyway.
Pizza, dirt, sugar, Kraft crap... none of it is less expensive than apples if you consider both the short term and long term cost.I'm not sure if poor people are looking 10-15-20 yrs down the road if they are trying to get through the week/month. Not making excuses, just saying what the mindset is. You are trying to make it through the day, week, possibly month if you aren't feeling too down trodden.
Go to the dentist? With what money? Poor people die early because better off people don't give a shit. Not because they want to die early, but because they rarely get to choose better unless they finally cave and turn to crime. It is only our American heritage of hard work holding the crime down, but I think the more other people besides me see what some people think of them simply because they are poor now. Simply because they work crap jobs. Simply because they aren't perfect, they might change their minds on why crime is bad.
I've been giving hints for years on this board now, and if smart people here are so in denial about RL, I am at a loss what to do. Poor people drive MB and have coach bags because that's what they own when they lose their jobs, when their spouse has a life threatening illness, etc. etc. Poor people aren't just the lifetime poor you think about in Applachia or immigrants from outside the US. They are also formerly middle class, rich, and 1%ers who are now very income deficient for whatever reason.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 11, 2017 12:58:24 GMT -5
I will always and continue to disagree with making SNAP like WIC. It removes all incentives to shop better. And I don't get why Milee and others feel entitled to determine food choices of recipients when we work and get food stamps. What the heck makes you so special then that I don't get to determine how you run your business (tax breaks funded by employees), how you care for your children (tax credits funded by childless people like myself), or what house you can buy if you used the $8K credit or qualify for mortgage credits? All of that is more than what I cost on SNAP one year.
Because I'm paying for it. If you don't want to hear my opinion, earn your own money. Simple. Not sure what tax breaks you think my business gets that you're funding - let me know. I don't get any mortgage credits or tax credits for my kids. I pay my way. And yours.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 11, 2017 13:08:14 GMT -5
I'm coming from this at an angle as a person who has never had kids. Who was for the most part self sufficient until age 43 in spite of multiple layoffs and a divorce. But things changed after 2001, and I was older & not Indian. I had been lied to. Marketing and networking in engineering was far more important than anyone had told me, especially since I was a non complaining hard working white woman. I am learning. Keep that in mind. And I am not learning what you think you are teaching me either. Yes, its all Indian people's fault that you are out of the Unix job. Ironical, on a thread titled "classist, elitist", you are talking how you deserved the job while an Indian did not. Angry much? Incapable of understanding shifting business practices? Bad at reading comprehension?
I'm going to go with yes. It is true that IT in this country is shifting to Indian both as employees living in America and as companies American businesses out source to. This is part of the H1B Visa program that has been contributing to unemployment and underemployment of older American IT workers and engineers for many years. IEEE has recorded age discrimination cases from decades ago. In the last decade the push from India has impacted me in a couple industries. They are not women friendly in general, although this is not true of everyone just a strong societal tendency.
Do I think Americans deserve the jobs over importing people from other countries? Damn straight. Sometimes the economics is too strong even if I have done the work of 4 or 5 people in India. Once they outsource IT to an Indian company in hopes of saving it, who do you think gets laid off first? The white woman or the guy who is Indian/Pakstanian? Cheaper white woman or man on VISA who is more expensive?
But pretend I don't know what I'm talking about. Just like all those HS and college students who couldn't get jobs during the great recession. It was really that they were losers, correct? It wasn't that employers had so many choices they wouldn't hire them. Correct?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 11, 2017 13:08:36 GMT -5
Yes, I get that. (Responding to MJ's post about poor people just focusing on that week not long term.) One thing I'm missing, though, is what the level of hunger in the US actually is. Everybody is different and obviously even people with some weight to lose take time to lose weight and some of the process can be miserable, but "hunger" today appears to me to be different than hunger was when I was growing up. When I was hungry growing up, we - and the other hungry people - were stick thin. Not to the point of the starving Syrian kids whose bellies get distended, but very, very thin. I was in my 20s before you couldn't clearly see each individual rib. I'd eat pretty much anything - even things I really didn't like at all - because I was hungry and eating the weird food was better than being that hungry. This is not the case for "hungry" people today. The statistics show that children of parents on welfare and food stamps are actually heavier than the general population, with high percentage of them being obese. When I volunteer at the food bank, the people picking up food are not thin as was captured so well in a picture in our newpaper - 200 people in line and only one of them wasn't obviously overweight. Whatever we're feeding to poor people isn't helping. If instead of subsidizing junk, we had a program where healthy foods were free if people were hungry - they would eat them. I know. Trust me, if you're hungry that weird bag of produce you've never seen before suddenly becomes edible. Or, if they truly would rather die than eat a vegetable, they'd somehow find work to pay for their junk just like people do now with cigarettes and alcohol. I'm actually right behind this. Make produce very cheap or free if you're on food stamps.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 11, 2017 13:11:26 GMT -5
My cart looks weird because of how I shop. I get veggies delivered through a CSA. I buy meat through a co-op so a lot of the time my cart is liquids, junk food, and baking supplies. This is me too! Whew! I've been silent on this thread until now because - judging . . .
We buy meat in bulk also - sometimes it's fully broken down and sometimes we have to take larger pieces and butcher them down ourselves into recognizable cuts for the freezer. Chickens go into the freezer cleaned but whole. Veggies come from my community garden plot or the farmer's market. I make bread, yogurt, soups, crackers/cookies/snacks, jams and other condiments from scratch. Pulses and grains come from the bulk bins at WF or the local co-op. So my cart too is usually an odd collection of stuff that would make any judger drool with delight . . .
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 11, 2017 13:14:39 GMT -5
I will always and continue to disagree with making SNAP like WIC. It removes all incentives to shop better. And I don't get why Milee and others feel entitled to determine food choices of recipients when we work and get food stamps. What the heck makes you so special then that I don't get to determine how you run your business (tax breaks funded by employees), how you care for your children (tax credits funded by childless people like myself), or what house you can buy if you used the $8K credit or qualify for mortgage credits? All of that is more than what I cost on SNAP one year.
Because I'm paying for it. If you don't want to hear my opinion, earn your own money. Simple. Not sure what tax breaks you think my business gets that you're funding - let me know. I don't get any mortgage credits or tax credits for my kids. I pay my way. And yours. I am earning my own damn money and you are earning your money on my back as well. I was a net payer at your age too Milee. You are too young to know how lucky you have been. How blessed you are simply by not being in my demographic. The one that is breaking all lifetime earnings for lows. Its the changes in society my dear. I am not as dumb or lazy as you think and I know you aren't as smart as you think you are. You are luckier than you know. You may have skillz. But in my demographic now you need supernatural skills.
You will likely never need to be as good as I need to be now. And that's a shame.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 11, 2017 13:20:10 GMT -5
Yes, I get that. (Responding to MJ's post about poor people just focusing on that week not long term.) One thing I'm missing, though, is what the level of hunger in the US actually is. Everybody is different and obviously even people with some weight to lose take time to lose weight and some of the process can be miserable, but "hunger" today appears to me to be different than hunger was when I was growing up. When I was hungry growing up, we - and the other hungry people - were stick thin. Not to the point of the starving Syrian kids whose bellies get distended, but very, very thin. I was in my 20s before you couldn't clearly see each individual rib. I'd eat pretty much anything - even things I really didn't like at all - because I was hungry and eating the weird food was better than being that hungry. This is not the case for "hungry" people today. T he statistics show that children of parents on welfare and food stamps are actually heavier than the general population, with high percentage of them being obese. When I volunteer at the food bank, the people picking up food are not thin as was captured so well in a picture in our newpaper - 200 people in line and only one of them wasn't obviously overweight. Whatever we're feeding to poor people isn't helping. If instead of subsidizing junk, we had a program where healthy foods were free if people were hungry - they would eat them. I know. Trust me, if you're hungry that weird bag of produce you've never seen before suddenly becomes edible. Or, if they truly would rather die than eat a vegetable, they'd somehow find work to pay for their junk just like people do now with cigarettes and alcohol. I've read that a major contributor to that problem is people donate heavily processed foods to food banks. When all you get are things that are loaded with sugar, fat and salts it's hard not to gain weight. It makes people feel good to clean out their pantries of shit they don't want and "feed the poor". A better donation would be cash because food banks have the power to work with farmers and companies to get as much fresh food as possible. People don't want to do that though because giving cash means giving up control. Food stamps being accepted at the farmer's market has shown to have benefits both in terms of people's health and the local economy since that money is going directly into the farmer's pocket as opposed to a multinational company like Kraft. We need to encourage more of that as voters rather than standing in front of a news camera bitching that poor people shouldn't be allowed the "luxury" of shopping at "our" farmer's market.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 11, 2017 13:29:17 GMT -5
I'm going to go back to RL and fantasy as I am too sick to be nice. I love that Disney gets how to move the world forward instead of telling people they are losers and wrong. (Or at least gives you nice songs and animation if they are less than positive.) I'm really enjoying Elana of Avalor. I probably should watch more kids shows made by wise grown ups.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Dec 11, 2017 13:38:16 GMT -5
At this time, only 13 states farmers market associations participate in the coalition accepting SNAP benefits. The individual vendors can accept the benefits on their own, but it makes more sense for the entire market to become licensed as a single Point Of Sale, covert the SNAP dollars into tokens and send shoppers out to the vendors. The feds have actually streamlined the acceptance process and encourage SNAP clients to shop their local markets. My state does not participate, but I have seen individual vendors accept the benefits, so I hope this changes.
Another problem with a cash/check donation is that you may wind up on the food bank's donor list, and they continually ask you for donations. Which I personally hate, because it means they are spending money on postage and promotional material they should be spending on food.
As for the claim a poster made for the necessity of "supernatural" skills needed by a certain demographic...well, that's my demographic as well. But I think we all need some form of supernatural skills at some point in life. Whether we choose to learn them, find them or create them is up to us. I don't think skill necessity is limited to a certain age group. Nor do I think luck has a whole lot to do with it. Sure, right place and right time plays into things. But you work at your own luck for the most part, along with a little advice from mentors you trust.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 11, 2017 13:39:15 GMT -5
This is not the case for "hungry" people today. The statistics show that children of parents on welfare and food stamps are actually heavier than the general population, with heligh percentage of them being obese. When I volunteer at the food bank, the people picking up food are not thin as was captured so well in a picture in our newpaper - 200 people in line and only one of them wasn't obviously overweight. Whatever we're feeding to poor people isn't helping.
Yes, this is because how we process food has changed. The FDA needs to be strengthened not weakened. Pasta in Italy might be much healthier than here but also they eat lots fruits, veggies, seafood, and olive oil because that's what they have. Much of what we had bison, deer, maize, wild rice, etc. is not part of our diets now. Too many carbs makes you fat and has you retain water. Beans help, but food pantries often limit what anyone person or family can get. The food pantry I go to the most regularly, only allowed to go at most once a month, limits beans, and other things. Almost every food pantry I go to the bag they pack for you has more carbs than anything else. Sometimes it is because it is cheaper to buy a box of pasta than tuna, salmon, or SPAM. Sometimes it is because local bakeries and grocery stores often bring whatever doesn't sell to the food pantry. Which is nice. But not as nice as when in season someone goes out of their way to visit Rutgers and get produce for people using the food pantry.
It is easier for the food pantry to get and store shelf stable goods. I still intend to donate a refrigerator and freezer to a food pantry locally some day when I can afford to. And volunteer and stock it when I can.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Dec 11, 2017 13:39:36 GMT -5
Yes, its all Indian people's fault that you are out of the Unix job. Ironical, on a thread titled "classist, elitist", you are talking how you deserved the job while an Indian did not. Angry much? Incapable of understanding shifting business practices? Bad at reading comprehension?
I'm going to go with yes. It is true that IT in this country is shifting to Indian both as employees living in America and as companies American businesses out source to. This is part of the H1B Visa program that has been contributing to unemployment and underemployment of older American IT workers and engineers for many years. IEEE has recorded age discrimination cases from decades ago. In the last decade the push from India has impacted me in a couple industries. They are not women friendly in general, although this is not true of everyone just a strong societal tendency.
Do I think Americans deserve the jobs over importing people from other countries? Damn straight. Sometimes the economics is too strong even if I have done the work of 4 or 5 people in India. Once they outsource IT to an Indian company in hopes of saving it, who do you think gets laid off first? The white woman or the guy who is Indian/Pakstanian? Cheaper white woman or man on VISA who is more expensive?
I'm sure you can figure it out. I'll not describe outsourcing in Pharma 15 years ago as a supplement. That company is dead BTW. Couldn't navigate the credit crisis even after taking on Indian company business partners. Pharma? Still playing desk chairs. But they have better lobbying. IBM owns my second tier industry now because they have deep pockets. But pretend I don't know what I'm talking about. Just like all those HS and college students who couldn't get jobs during the great recession. It was really that they were losers, correct? It wasn't that employers had so many choices they wouldn't hire them. Correct?
LOL! I work in the IT industry. Always have. I am a white woman too who has been through the entire IT cycle. So I know as much or perhaps a LOT MORE than you do how IT industry works. Its not me who is angry, its YOU. You go off on a rant on every single chance you get, blaming everyone and their brother for your job losses. Information technology is a survival of the fittest, and people who do not keep up with the skills don't stand much chance. Its not the "Indian or Pakistani" guy who took your job. Yes, your employers replaced you with them but have you asked why Its not a straight forward "because they were cheaper than me". If you had comparable skill sets then of course the company chose them over you! Why didn't you re-invent yourself after that? Why do you live in past glory? I, personally, have given you suggestion in various threads in the past on getting free training, reading up on latest technologies, getting your foot in the door. BUT - you ignore every single suggestion. Because its so much easier to blame the Asians who took your job Let me tell you, there are TONS of Americans who are still surviving - and thriving - in the IT industry. I am sure they are not the ones who are blaming an entire ethnicity for their woes. Talk about entitlement.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 13:46:30 GMT -5
So, I do see the need for some flexibility, obviously. So maybe not exactly like WIC, but more like WIC than food stamps are run today. Contrary to popular belief, our bodies don't always gain and lose weight based on a calorie in, calorie out static formula. When a diet is devoid of nutrients, the body will conserve even if it has calories. I've done extensive elimination diets with exacting journaling. What causes and does not cause my body to retain and gain weight is just not always synonymous with common wisdom. I'm sensitive to lots of things (and i'm thinking given a modern diet and homogenization, etc i'm probably not alone) and weird, seemingly healthy things will cause me inflammation and if eaten consistently sustained weight gain.
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