I know how this sounds, classist? or elitist perhaps?

[whoisjohngalt]

I think it's quite insulting to say that it's hard to eat healthy with all the information that it's out there, on that mystical site we call Google. It implies that people are too stupid to figure out how to boil some rice and beans.

May be it's not as tasty for some. May be it's too boring for some. But it's not hard. And it's not as expensive as it is perceived.

I lived in MD, worked in downtown Baltimore and a few other areas. I lived in MA - 20 min from Boston and now live further North of Boston. None of those areas are considered cheap or low cost of living. In ALL of those areas it was not hard to find healthier and cheaper alternatives to dollar store potato chips.

If people want to eat all the processed food, that's fine, it's not for us to judge. But we shouldn't be coming up with list of one thousand and one reasons why they seem to have no choice.

[milee]

Dec 10, 2017 16:44:24 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

....

If people want to eat all the processed food, that's fine, it's not for us to judge. But we shouldn't be coming up with list of one thousand and one reasons why they seem to have no choice.

Lightning is going to strike me, but... when someone is asking me to pay for not only their processed food, but all the other expenses associated with it, then I do get judgy.  Anybody who earns their own money, pays for their own groceries, pays for their own healthcare, pays for their own housing and hustles to get work without requiring any of my assistance or impacting me is welcome to do whatever the heck they want.

But if you want me to subsidize your food, subsidize your housing, pay for your healthcare, provide you some spending money when you decide not to work... then yes, I'm going to be judgy of you eating crap that makes your sick, less able to work and costs me more in healthcare spending and subsidizing you.  

The idea that taxpayers should just shut up and blindly hand over money to someone while the same taxpayer has no input as to how the funds are spent or if the spending is wise is BS.  And I'm fully aware that not every inexpensive, healthy food is going to appeal to everybody and sometimes it's simply going to suck to eat more ____, but that's sort of the whole grind of being poor.  

Having been poor at several distinct times in my life (when I was young and had no control over it, when I was putting myself through college and made the conscious decision to minimize student debt and when I started my own business), I know being poor sucks.  But I also know how to navigate it and have real world tested tips on surviving.  It's not theory, eating healthy but inexpensive is what I did for years.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

There’s a difference between vindictively calling people “victims who just make excuses” and distinguishing ways to overcome based on personal experience.
There’s not allowing for any actual reasons for why something might happen because you don’t agree with it and acknowledging actual realities of life, intellectual capability, lack of networks, etc. being hurdles and how to deal with them.

Milee and Lena, you’re the latter as I hope I am too.

[Deleted]

I'm remembering The Egg and I and how McDonald describes the vast array of vegetables that she brought out of her garden every year ... and how the local farmers didn't seem to eat any vegetables, never salad, and most things they fed to the animals, or boiled till they were stringy... This was in the 1930s? ... 

Its not just lack of money. Its, for want of a less judgy word, mentality in some cases, habit. Its the fact that if you have never seen a dry bean, or etc. etc. ... never saw something prepared, had it presented to you formatively... or at least had the process of trying new foods introduced to your formatively, you are unlikely to even see that part of a grocery store, etc. 

FWIW I rarely even go down the canned foods aisle for instance. I think they are icky. I'm sure there are people who, sad as it is, never enter the produce department either...

It helps in no way that lobbyists WANT those junk foods to be food stamp ready. 

Yes you pay for it... but if you own stock in any company that produces processed food... you also BENEFIT from it. Its an interesting cycle. 

[Deleted]

White rice and pasta aren't exactly healthy foods, at least not to my body....

[TheOtherMe]

My great nephew is overweight.  His parents are both working, no kind of assistance involved.  When I babysat him when he was younger, the kid had an appetite.  He loved fruit after school, but he also liked Doritos.  He would eat 3 bananas, grapes and an apple after school and then not ask for more food after school.

He sometimes would sit and eat unhealthy food.  I was told it didn't matter how much he ate after school because he would still eat dinner (unlike his sister who had to have her snacks limited so she would eat at dinner time).

As he got older, he spent more and more time with his nose in a screen.  I had not seen him for about 6 months and saw him in the spring.  I was shocked at how much weight he had put on.  That was a couple of years ago.  

I know when I babysat there was a lot of "bad" food there.  A top shelf of the pantry full of fruit snacks.  Both kids had all kinds of cavities before kindergarten.

I never felt it my place to say anything since they are not my kids.  When I mentioned it to my sister (grandma) I got told it was none of my business.  She did tell me he wasn't enjoying soccer as much because he couldn't keep up and had quit some sports he was in.  I find that sad.

His mother was not overweight as a child.  She has a few extra pounds now.  As long as her husband has been in the family, he is not overweight.  I just wish they were offering him better food choices as dad is a type 1 diabetic.

[NoNamePerson]

Dec 10, 2017 17:54:09 GMT -5 oped said:

I'm remembering The Egg and I and how McDonald describes the vast array of vegetables that she brought out of her garden every year ... and how the local farmers didn't seem to eat any vegetables, never salad, and most things they fed to the animals, or boiled till they were stringy... This was in the 1930s? ... 

Its not just lack of money. Its, for want of a less judgy word, mentality in some cases, habit. Its the fact that if you have never seen a dry bean, or etc. etc. ... never saw something prepared, had it presented to you formatively... or at least had the process of trying new foods introduced to your formatively, you are unlikely to even see that part of a grocery store, etc. 

FWIW I rarely even go down the canned foods aisle for instance. I think they are icky. I'm sure there are people who, sad as it is, never enter the produce department either...

It helps in no way that lobbyists WANT those junk foods to be food stamp ready. 

Yes you pay for it... but if you own stock in any company that produces processed food... you also BENEFIT from it. Its an interesting cycle. 

Same here but I also don't do frozen foods. But it is just me and I can do fresh till the cows come home - of course I don't eat the cow!!

[milee]

Dec 10, 2017 17:54:09 GMT -5 oped said:

I'm remembering The Egg and I and how McDonald describes the vast array of vegetables that she brought out of her garden every year ... and how the local farmers didn't seem to eat any vegetables, never salad, and most things they fed to the animals, or boiled till they were stringy... This was in the 1930s? ... 

Its not just lack of money. Its, for want of a less judgy word, mentality in some cases, habit. Its the fact that if you have never seen a dry bean, or etc. etc. ... never saw something prepared, had it presented to you formatively... or at least had the process of trying new foods introduced to your formatively, you are unlikely to even see that part of a grocery store, etc. 

FWIW I rarely even go down the canned foods aisle for instance. I think they are icky. I'm sure there are people who, sad as it is, never enter the produce department either...

It helps in no way that lobbyists WANT those junk foods to be food stamp ready. 

Yes you pay for it... but if you own stock in any company that produces processed food... you also BENEFIT from it. Its an interesting cycle. 

Yeah, I definitely get that.  It's been a long process to find healthy foods I like because my family didn't really eat like that growing up.  I don't think we ever had any types of beans at all other than canned green beans, so I know how daunting it is to get your first bag of dried beans and be puzzled about what to do with them.  You have to want to do it.  I wanted to because I knew they were incredibly inexpensive but really had no idea what to do with them.  To this day, I still often crave the stuff I grew up with even if it's not really all that appetizing or healthy.

The food lobby group - and that's not just the big makers of all the processed junk but all the farm and pesticide businesses who rely on the steady government subsidy of corn - should be ashamed.  More importantly, we should be pushing back against them as a country.

[Deleted]

milee, you are also intelligent and educated. You can't discount that in the process. Some people don't even know what they don't know. 


Agree we should be pushing back. So much we should be pushing back against. I'm getting exhausted.  

[NancysSummerSip]

Dec 10, 2017 16:27:52 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I just got back from grocery store and immediately thought of this thread.

I saw what the lady ahead of me was buying since it was on the conveyor belt when I got behind her.

I must admit that I started having anxiety attach plus thought I might actually faint because she was buying: a huge pork roast, a huge beef roast, two deli chickens and OMG a bottle of that stuff called Real Lemon.

I was breaking out in a cold sweat but then a lady pulled in behind me and I thought:

OMG what if she is a VEGAN and she is having anxiety attack seeing my Smoked Gouda cheese, FM pimento brand cheese, my eggs, sour cream, Fage Greek Yogurt and Plugra butter   But I hope she saw the cauliflower, broccoli, baby bok choy, baby spinach and Earnest Eats on the check out counter.

Personally I hope it confused the hell out of her trying to decide if I ate healthy or not   

Plugra butter? You pagan, you! BTW, I love that stuff. Only thing it really needs is a fork. Actually, if it's a little soft, a finger will do. Oh, heck...just lick it out of the container, no hands needed.

[milee]

Dec 10, 2017 19:31:49 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Dec 10, 2017 16:27:52 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I just got back from grocery store and immediately thought of this thread.

I saw what the lady ahead of me was buying since it was on the conveyor belt when I got behind her.

I must admit that I started having anxiety attach plus thought I might actually faint because she was buying: a huge pork roast, a huge beef roast, two deli chickens and OMG a bottle of that stuff called Real Lemon.

I was breaking out in a cold sweat but then a lady pulled in behind me and I thought:

OMG what if she is a VEGAN and she is having anxiety attack seeing my Smoked Gouda cheese, FM pimento brand cheese, my eggs, sour cream, Fage Greek Yogurt and Plugra butter   But I hope she saw the cauliflower, broccoli, baby bok choy, baby spinach and Earnest Eats on the check out counter.

Personally I hope it confused the hell out of her trying to decide if I ate healthy or not   

Plugra butter? You pagan, you! BTW, I love that stuff. Only thing it really needs is a fork. Actually, if it's a little soft, a finger will do. Oh, heck...just lick it out of the container, no hands needed.

This weekend, my son made tarts using Plugra in the homemade crust.  They were heavenly.  I'm still kind of a cheapskate when I cook, so I just use the Costco butter (good quality, but very reasonably priced) or lard in my pie crusts.  Then I buy a container of Plugra once a year or so to have spread on baked goods.  Well, DS (the happy 13 year old baker) noticed how much I love Plugra and convinced his dad to take him to the store to get some for his pie crusts.  DH is a sucker about that stuff because he doesn't grocery shop so doesn't know how much stuff costs and pretty much just lets the little baker get whatever ingredients he needs... booger.  Anyway, I'm loving this crust.  Plugra is dangerously good.  Probably best I'm too cheap to buy it all the time.  

[NastyWoman]

Dec 9, 2017 21:37:10 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 9, 2017 21:32:54 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

 We have given them the nutritional information on every single food item they are able to purchase and then we made that information bigger. As a country we are still getting fatter and not just the poor.

But bigger letters and numbers/information won't necessarily help the illiterate. Poverty and illiteracy often go hand-in-hand.

 And while I am at it along the same lines-> if you talk to someone whose language is not English, talking louder to them does not help either. Something else I have seen more than I care to admit and not here in the US either. Language has to be understood to be useful!

[Shooby]

Dec 10, 2017 17:59:21 GMT -5 oped said:

White rice and pasta aren't exactly healthy foods, at least not to my body....

So buy brown rice.  Buy wheat flour and learn to make bread.  It's not that hard.

[wvugurl26]

Dec 10, 2017 21:55:20 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Dec 10, 2017 17:59:21 GMT -5 oped said:

White rice and pasta aren't exactly healthy foods, at least not to my body....

So buy brown rice.  Buy wheat flour and learn to make bread.  It's not that hard.

Pretty sure she has issues with gluten. It doesn't matter if it's brown/wheat/white, still going to be a problem for her.

[zibazinski]

How about simply eating less. We don’t have to walk away stuffed to the gills. There’s X amount of food on the plate and when it’s empty, there’s no more until the next meal. That would certainly take away the health and overweight issues. It’s amazing the amount of food we consume as well as stuff kids with. Kids and adults don’t seem to be able to go an hour without a snack or a Starbucks in their faces.

[Shooby]

Dec 10, 2017 22:03:51 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

Dec 10, 2017 21:55:20 GMT -5 Shooby said:

So buy brown rice.  Buy wheat flour and learn to make bread.  It's not that hard.

Pretty sure she has issues with gluten. It doesn't matter if it's brown/wheat/white, still going to be a problem for her.

Rice doesn't contain gluten.

[Shooby]

Dec 10, 2017 17:50:32 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

There’s a difference between vindictively calling people “victims who just make excuses” and distinguishing ways to overcome based on personal experience.
There’s not allowing for any actual reasons for why something might happen because you don’t agree with it and acknowledging actual realities of life, intellectual capability, lack of networks, etc. being hurdles and how to deal with them.

Milee and Lena, you’re the latter as I hope I am too.

Oh, there is no shortage of "victims who just make excuses".  That's for sure.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2017 22:03:51 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

Dec 10, 2017 21:55:20 GMT -5 Shooby said:

So buy brown rice.  Buy wheat flour and learn to make bread.  It's not that hard.

Pretty sure she has issues with gluten. It doesn't matter if it's brown/wheat/white, still going to be a problem for her.

Yep. On the rare occasion I want a bread or baked good it’s much cheaper to buy it, or buy a mix than pay for all the specialty stuff and then have to try to get the ratios right. 

But they are t good for me anyway. I eat some now and again, but my body doesn’t really like grains. 

So, it’s more veggies for me. Tomorrow I’m going to ‘noodle‘ celeriac to make Alfredo to go with the salmon. Or maybe Tuesday? Tomorrow my homemade sauerkraut should be done so I might mash potatoes. 

[Value Buy]

Dec 10, 2017 9:28:43 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  The "it costs too much to eat healthy food Lie".  That's bunk.  It doesnt' cost more to eat healthy.  You can buy a bag of apples or a bag of doritos for the same price.  You can buy bags and bags of frozen veggies for a lot less money than candy, snacks and crap.  People CHOOSE to eat crap. It's really that simple.

And lest everyone forgets, let's not compare a bag of Doritos to a bag of apples.
Compare apple weight to Doritos bag weight.
Buy a three lb bag of apples and 48 oz of Doritos and see which is less in cost.
And please tell me the Doritos are better for you while you argue this point.

You can lead momma to the grocery store, but you can't make her buy what she should.

And as far as iceburg lettuce, the kids need good ruffage too!

[Value Buy]

Dec 10, 2017 10:31:28 GMT -5 tractor said:

I agree with the lack of education causing poor food choices. We have a local agency that works very hard to educate rural citizens about making healthy choices though flyers, radio ads and cooking classes. I think it helps those who want to be helped. I have also seen many who buy nothing but crap and wonder why they don’t feel good, or why their weight continues to sky rocket.

As i’ve posted about a few times, I love crap (Doritos and Red Bull), but I also eat a ton of veggies, eggs, yogurt, and meat protein.

You know they still teach the healthy food pyramid in school, but darn if you ever hear a child in the store telling mom not to buy the cookies and pop.......

[Deleted]

Actually they don’t still teach the food pyramid. It’s MyPlate now... 

[Shooby]

Dec 10, 2017 22:26:34 GMT -5 oped said:

Dec 10, 2017 22:03:51 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

Pretty sure she has issues with gluten. It doesn't matter if it's brown/wheat/white, still going to be a problem for her.

Yep. On the rare occasion I want a bread or baked good it’s much cheaper to buy it, or buy a mix than pay for all the specialty stuff and then have to try to get the ratios right. 

But they are t good for me anyway. I eat some now and again, but my body doesn’t really like grains. 

So, it’s more veggies for me. Tomorrow I’m going to ‘noodle‘ celeriac to make Alfredo to go with the salmon. Or maybe Tuesday? Tomorrow my homemade sauerkraut should be done so I might mash potatoes. 

My son has celiacs. I have made gluten free food for years. It isnt that hard if you educate yourself.

[Shooby]

Btw Dorito contain gluten.

[plugginaway22]

This makes me want to go buy a big bag of Doritos!  I eat a whole bag about once a year, Love them.

[milee]

BTW, I'm realizing I'm the only dinosaur who cooks dried beans in this area.  Usually, I cook some form of dried beans once a week.  Could be ranch style pintos, black beans for black beans and rice or for burritos, mixed beans for soup, garbanzos for hummus or salad toppers, curried Indian kidney beans, whatever, but at least some beans once a week.  Not only are stores carrying less of a variety of dried beans, but it appears fewer people are buying them and they're sitting around longer.  Last week I tossed a pound of Limas (was going to make them into Greek beans with feta); after I soaked them overnight they were just a blown out mushy mess before I even cooked them.  This morning I'm soaking a pound of Great Northerns (making English style, like Heinz beans) and they look like they're going to have the same problem.  Fewer people are buying dried beans, so some of the bags are sitting around way too long. 

The only beans that never have any issues - so looks like plenty of people are buying them and the stock is fresh - are pintos.

Guess before too long if the trend continues the stores won't even carry most dried beans.   

[Deleted]

Ok. So I do buy canned food. Garbanzo beans and Walnut Acres Baked Beans for when I feel the need.

I just don't do beans often? I can't do black beans at all. I buy dry beans if I want to make chili, but that's maybe twice a year?  I'm trying to think if I ever saw dried garbanzo beans? 

[grumpyhermit]

Dec 11, 2017 10:16:18 GMT -5 oped said:

Ok. So I do buy canned food. Garbanzo beans and Walnut Acres Baked Beans for when I feel the need.

I just don't do beans often? I can't do black beans at all. I buy dry beans if I want to make chili, but that's maybe twice a year?  I'm trying to think if I ever saw dried garbanzo beans? 

I have. There's a bag in my pantry. Been there for about 3 years. I bought it with the intent to make humus, and just keep buying canned instead because every time I look at the bag instructions, it feels like too much hassle.

[milee]

Dec 11, 2017 10:16:18 GMT -5 oped said:

Ok. So I do buy canned food. Garbanzo beans and Walnut Acres Baked Beans for when I feel the need.

I just don't do beans often? I can't do black beans at all. I buy dry beans if I want to make chili, but that's maybe twice a year?  I'm trying to think if I ever saw dried garbanzo beans? 

Goya dried garbanzos are awesome - around here you find them in the "Hispanic" food section.  

Cooking beans is one thing those new multicookers  - like Instant Pot or the Fagor Lux I have - are the bomb for.  Using the pressure cook function means you don't even have to soak the beans and they still come out great!  I still soak for certain recipes because I'm cooking the beans another way.  With the multicooker, you can cook dried beans from the bag to done in less than 30 minutes and they're really nice texture.  I've never been able to get the best texture out of dried beans out of a crock pot (they're edible just not as good a texture), but the multicooker rocks.  

[milee]

Dec 11, 2017 10:19:32 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

Dec 11, 2017 10:16:18 GMT -5 oped said:

Ok. So I do buy canned food. Garbanzo beans and Walnut Acres Baked Beans for when I feel the need.

I just don't do beans often? I can't do black beans at all. I buy dry beans if I want to make chili, but that's maybe twice a year?  I'm trying to think if I ever saw dried garbanzo beans? 

I have. There's a bag in my pantry. Been there for about 3 years. I bought it with the intent to make humus, and just keep buying canned instead because every time I look at the bag instructions, it feels like too much hassle.

If you want to use that bag of garbanzos, they'll still be edible you'll just need to cook them for longer.  Here's one of my kids' favorite recipes - I think it would work to use them up.  Just increase the first simmer time as needed.  You don't have to baby sit this, so if you want to turn it on and leave it simmering for 2-3 hours, that's fine.

Lablabi
- Tunisian Chickpea Stew
1 lb dried Chickpeas

12 garlic cloves – peeled, 6 left whole and 6 minced

1 tbl kosher salt

2 bay leaves

4 tsp Cumin seeds – roasted and freshly ground

2 tbl Harissa

4 c day old bread – shepherd’s bread works well

½ preserved lemon

8-12 eggs

6 tbl Olive oil

2 Lemons

4-6 tbl chopped fresh parsley

3—6 tbl sun dried tomatoes packed in EVOO, chopped

3-6 tbl capers



Rinse chickpeas and pick out any bad ones. Soak overnight in refrigerator, making sure water is above the top of the beans by at least 2”.

Drain chickpeas, placing in medium soup pot w/4 quarts water, kosher salt, 6 garlic cloves and the bay leaves. On medium heat, bring to a very gentle simmer. Once simmering, cover, turn heat down a little and cook until tender – 60-90 minutes. Discard bay leaves.

Mince the remaining 6 garlic cloves and add to chickpeas along with 4 tsp cumin and the harissa. Cover and simmer gently for 30 minutes. (While chickpeas are simmering, prep the toppings. Tear bread into small bites. Chop prepared lemon, cook eggs.)

Add 6 tbl olive oil and juice of one lemon to the soup. Simmer 5 more minutes. Taste and season as needed.

To serve, ladle over bread. Top with egg and a drizzle of olive oil. Squeeze some fresh lemon juice on top. Sprinkle with parsley, sun dried tomatoes and capers.

[MJ2.0]

in my cart I do some fresh veggies, some frozen, and fresh fruits for sure.  Yeah I have some cheez-its, pop corners, and wheat-thins, (and frozen pizza, sometimes cookies... ) but I always have a balanced meal plan for the week.  Yes I'm making chicken and dumplings in the slow cooker now, and that includes 2 cans of cream of chicken soup (low sodium, low fat version) and a bag of mixed veggies.  I maintain that it's healthier than eating McDs or those nasty Kid's Cuisine meals I used to eat as a kid. 

Would you judge my cart?  Where do we draw the line?  Canned soups/pastas/chilis are laden with salt, should they be off limits to the poor getting bennies?  What about dried fruit?  Or salted nuts?