NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 5, 2017 11:36:57 GMT -5
I certainly would not want to see booths on every corner but I think a case could be made for a central clinic. When you go there you have to meet with a licensed counselor before you can go in the booth, the booth is plastered with anti-suicide material and the computer asks you multiple times if you are sure before it will activate.
I view that as similar to shoot up clinics that are popping up. Yes in an ideal world we don't want anyone using illegal drugs, but that hasn't happened since human beings first stepped foot out of the jungle. Instead of continuing the "war on drugs" that clearly isn't working why not have a central location where people can use? While these people are there they are being bombarded with material encouraging them to get help. It's a lot easier to inform a captive audience than it is to search for crack addicts on the street.
Suicide is similar. Those that are intent on doing it will do it, period. You are never going to have a society where nobody chooses to off themselves. However you could choose to create a captive audience. There are probably lots of people who when left alone go thru with it but if they had a support network right in their face would be much less likely to do so. Current methods for prevention operate on the assumption you will have it together enough to seek help. If you were self aware enough you likely wouldn't be contemplating suicide to begin with.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 5, 2017 11:40:54 GMT -5
Again, I'm going to emphasize the subject of this thread. It's not to discuss the "best" methods of committing suicide, so cut it out! Discuss the booths and their potential impact on society. Use your heads, people! mmhmm, Politics Moderator The sole purpose of the booths is to kill people the "best" way possible. That's their raison d'etre. The only two defenses of their existence are i) cheap, easy suicide isn't a bad thing, or ii) the machines aren't a milestone since cheap, easy ways to commit suicide already exist. If either of these topics isn't suitable for conversation (perhaps moon/Laura will give us a ruling), it's best to simply lock the thread. Actually cost is never mentioned...since according to the beginning of the thread, container one enters or is put into doubles as a coffin...it seems there will be considerable cost involved here..lot more then if cremation was used instead for the remains...just saying.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 5, 2017 11:41:12 GMT -5
It is a fine line between -ahem- "rationally" discussing self inflicted death, and suggesting methods of killing oneself that are almost like advocacy for it. Please tread lightly here..... That's exactly what I'm saying. Thanks, dem. I really don't want to lock the thread.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 5, 2017 11:46:24 GMT -5
I certainly would not want to see booths on every corner but I think a case could be made for a central clinic. When you go there you have to meet with a licensed counselor before you can go in the booth, the booth is plastered with anti-suicide material and the computer asks you multiple times if you are sure before it will activate. I view that as similar to shoot up clinics that are popping up. Yes in an ideal world we don't want anyone using illegal drugs, but that hasn't happened since human beings first stepped foot out of the jungle. Instead of continuing the "war on drugs" that clearly isn't working why not have a central location where people can use? While these people are there they are being bombarded with material encouraging them to get help. It's a lot easier to inform a captive audience than it is to search for crack addicts on the street. Suicide is similar. Those that are intent on doing it will do it, period. You are never going to have a society where nobody chooses to off themselves. However you could choose to create a captive audience. There are probably lots of people who when left alone go thru with it but if they had a support network right in their face would be much less likely to do so. Current methods for prevention operate on the assumption you will have it together enough to seek help. If you were self aware enough you likely wouldn't be contemplating suicide to begin with. There was a film that in part dealt with a Society which had reached the end as far as resources, food and such, Charlton Heston and [damn forgot..older at this time older top actor also] Aha...Edward G. Robinson...his last film...still great in this movie..real old school pro..."Soylent Green" and there is a society neat way of ending life for those who have had it with living in the world of that day...Possible something like that for those terminal folks...also in great discomfort to say the least... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 11:50:14 GMT -5
While I agree folks should be able to take their lives if they are terminal I think there needs to be a heavy dose of counseling and a psychological analysis prior to giving them the least painful and most peaceful way to do it.
I now have two friends that have killed themselves during a temporary bout with depression and I feel guilt along with many others that I didn’t see it coming and been able to do something about it. I agree making it too easy may make it even easier for folks to do it during a short term bout with depression.
Watch the Star Trek Next Generation Episode “Half A Life” which details a planet where everyone kills themselves at 60, it is heartbreaking to see people urged by society to kill themselves way before their time.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 5, 2017 11:55:14 GMT -5
While I agree folks should be able to take their lives if they are terminal I think there needs to be a heavy dose of counseling and a psychological analysis prior to giving them the least painful and most peaceful way to do it. I now have two friends that have killed themselves during a temporary bout with depression and I feel guilt along with many others that I didn’t see it coming and been able to do something about it. I agree making it too easy may make it even easier for folks to do it during a short term bout with depression. Watch the Star Trek Next Generation Episode “Half A Life” which details a planet where everyone kills themselves at 60, it is heartbreaking to see people urged by society to kill themselves way before their time. I remember that one...troys Mom fell for the guy and went with him to be with him when it was time....that was as u know " Science Fiction"...and 60 is kind of young....I am way beyond that and as long as feel as I do, even with a few problems...not going anywhere... no matter what one of our members seems to feel where I should go...Sorry man....
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 5, 2017 12:00:56 GMT -5
I certainly would not want to see booths on every corner but I think a case could be made for a central clinic. When you go there you have to meet with a licensed counselor before you can go in the booth, the booth is plastered with anti-suicide material and the computer asks you multiple times if you are sure before it will activate. If right-to-choose people won't tolerate measures like this for abortion, why would they tolerate it for suicide? Remember, this machine exists due to the fundamental belief that suicide is a personal choice that nobody else (including governments through clinics) has the right to interfere with. This includes counselors, waiting periods, anti-suicide literature, and being forced into centralized clinics. It's why the designers made it manufacturable by anyone, released the blueprints and software, and publicized it on the Internet. They take this particular freedom of choice very seriously, as you've no-doubt deduced. The problem is that once we make it an issue of personal choice over morality, their approach makes sense. Government should butt out rather than infringing on citizens' freedom to take their own lives. There's no happy medium here. You either value life above choice, or choice above life. Ultimately one of the two sides is going to win out entirely, with no concessions to the other side. Neither side will settle for the incongruous middle ground.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 5, 2017 12:09:34 GMT -5
I am fine with the idea. If one believes in individual liberties, and that one has the right to live their life pretty much any way they want to as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others to do the same, how could you think otherwise? If the right of self-determination is fundamental to being an individual, is there anything more fundamental than the choice of whether to live at all, or of how to end that life? No. It is their choice, not mine. It is their life, not mine. It belongs to them, not society. Society should butt out, and the law should not proscribe that choice. Respect the individual. I am glad to live in a state that does that. Washington voters passed an initiative that allowed medical aid in dying, although they do limit it to terminal patients. Still, that is far better than other states which deny that option and instead condemn such persons to a much bleaker future. You realize these suicide machines aren't just for terminal patients? They're available for anybody who decides to take their own life, for any reason. Yes, so? Death With Dignity laws are a good start, but to the extent that they limit the choice to the terminally ill they still exert too much control over an individual's choice. I would never agree that it should be society's choice rather than the individual's option.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 5, 2017 12:26:37 GMT -5
You realize these suicide machines aren't just for terminal patients? They're available for anybody who decides to take their own life, for any reason. Yes, so? Death With Dignity laws are a good start, but to the extent that they limit the choice to the terminally ill they still exert too much control over an individual's choice. I would never agree that it should be society's choice rather than the individual's option. Your life, your own death. My opinion as well.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 5, 2017 12:27:02 GMT -5
... I now have two friends that have killed themselves during a temporary bout with depression and I feel guilt ... Watch the Star Trek Next Generation Episode “Half A Life” which details a planet where everyone kills themselves at 60, it is heartbreaking to see people urged by society to kill themselves way before their time. You might be correct it would have only been temporary and I can see how that belief would lead to you feeling a negative emotion. The title of that television show informs of the writer's agenda. But imagine what life would be like if you knew that you had a fixed period of time on this planet and didn't have to worry about some long drawn out uncertainty. I can see it as liberating.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 5, 2017 12:33:24 GMT -5
I have removed a few posts from this thread. We have returned to rational discussion and I really appreciate it. Thanks, all.
mmhmm, Administrator
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 5, 2017 12:35:03 GMT -5
I certainly would not want to see booths on every corner but I think a case could be made for a central clinic. When you go there you have to meet with a licensed counselor before you can go in the booth, the booth is plastered with anti-suicide material and the computer asks you multiple times if you are sure before it will activate. If right-to-choose people won't tolerate measures like this for abortion, why would they tolerate it for suicide? Remember, this machine exists due to the fundamental belief that suicide is a personal choice that nobody else (including governments through clinics) has the right to interfere with. This includes counselors, waiting periods, anti-suicide literature, and being forced into centralized clinics. It's why the designers made it manufacturable by anyone, released the blueprints and software, and publicized it on the Internet. They take this particular freedom of choice very seriously, as you've no-doubt deduced. The problem is that once we make it an issue of personal choice over morality, their approach makes sense. Government should butt out rather than infringing on citizens' freedom to take their own lives. There's no happy medium here. You either value life above choice, or choice above life. Ultimately one of the two sides is going to win out entirely, with no concessions to the other side. Neither side will settle for the incongruous middle ground. because we are talking about a person, not a fetus. And before you go whisking this off to the abortion lock down area, you brought it up. Knock it off.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 5, 2017 12:39:09 GMT -5
I certainly would not want to see booths on every corner but I think a case could be made for a central clinic. When you go there you have to meet with a licensed counselor before you can go in the booth, the booth is plastered with anti-suicide material and the computer asks you multiple times if you are sure before it will activate. If right-to-choose people won't tolerate measures like this for abortion, why would they tolerate it for suicide?Remember, this machine exists due to the fundamental belief that suicide is a personal choice that nobody else (including governments through clinics) has the right to interfere with. This includes counselors, waiting periods, anti-suicide literature, and being forced into centralized clinics. It's why the designers made it manufacturable by anyone, released the blueprints and software, and publicized it on the Internet. They take this particular freedom of choice very seriously, as you've no-doubt deduced. The problem is that once we make it an issue of personal choice over morality, their approach makes sense. Government should butt out rather than infringing on citizens' freedom to take their own lives. There's no happy medium here. You either value life above choice, or choice above life. Ultimately one of the two sides is going to win out entirely, with no concessions to the other side. Neither side will settle for the incongruous middle ground. First, I would suggest that the process one would go through to get an abortion is not relevant to the process one would go through with suicide. That is because one cannot really give themselves an abortion. One can easily take their own life without going to a "suicide clinic" and could easily therefore avoid such countermeasures. If someone truly wishes to take their life, they will, and in ways far more detrimental to the rest of society than this. And at the risk of a long dissertation, I can't really see how you could regard this as a morality issue. If people are choosing the option and not being pressured into it we should let them. Also, the idea that people would manufacture the booth themselves (at least currently) plays into it. There would certainly be a fairly large cost involved, whether in time, effort, and/or money. That makes this option much more deliberative rather than rash. This is not the impulsive, "spur-of-the-moment" option that we hope does not occur often.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 5, 2017 12:43:22 GMT -5
While I agree folks should be able to take their lives if they are terminal I think there needs to be a heavy dose of counseling and a psychological analysis prior to giving them the least painful and most peaceful way to do it. I now have two friends that have killed themselves during a temporary bout with depression and I feel guilt along with many others that I didn’t see it coming and been able to do something about it. I agree making it too easy may make it even easier for folks to do it during a short term bout with depression. Watch the Star Trek Next Generation Episode “Half A Life” which details a planet where everyone kills themselves at 60, it is heartbreaking to see people urged by society to kill themselves way before their time. In my opinion if you have ever had Clinical Depression with the big C and D, it does not feel at all temporary. And usually it is two to three years to get better whether you use drugs or not. Just surviving through the entire day can be extruciating. I'm grateful I've been able to set up my life to never go there again, but even close can be dangerous.
If you had any idea how hard it is to sometimes make it from hour to hour, you'd realize there is nothing easy about staying on planet during two or more years of hell. I personally understand why someone in that situation hits the its too much button frequently. YMMV. My personal opinion and experience. FWIW.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 5, 2017 13:26:09 GMT -5
The problem is that once we make it an issue of personal choice over morality
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.'
Here is a statement that does not trouble me at all: "I can't do that because my moral code (religion) won't let me."
Here is a statement that troubles me greatly: "YOU can't do that because MY moral code (religion) won't let you."
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 5, 2017 13:28:04 GMT -5
The problem is that once we make it an issue of personal choice over morality
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.'
Here is a statement that does not trouble me at all: "I can't do that because my moral code (religion) won't let me."
Here is a statement that troubles me greatly: "YOU can't do that because MY moral code (religion) won't let you."
I can't like this enough.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 5, 2017 13:46:28 GMT -5
The problem is that once we make it an issue of personal choice over morality
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.'
Here is a statement that does not trouble me at all: "I can't do that because my moral code (religion) won't let me."
Here is a statement that troubles me greatly: "YOU can't do that because MY moral code (religion) won't let you."
The American Taliban troubles me greatly as well.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 5, 2017 13:52:09 GMT -5
While I agree folks should be able to take their lives if they are terminal I think there needs to be a heavy dose of counseling and a psychological analysis prior to giving them the least painful and most peaceful way to do it. I now have two friends that have killed themselves during a temporary bout with depression and I feel guilt along with many others that I didn’t see it coming and been able to do something about it. I agree making it too easy may make it even easier for folks to do it during a short term bout with depression. Watch the Star Trek Next Generation Episode “Half A Life” which details a planet where everyone kills themselves at 60, it is heartbreaking to see people urged by society to kill themselves way before their time. In my opinion if you have ever had Clinical Depression with the big C and D, it does not feel at all temporary. And usually it is two to three years to get better whether you use drugs or not. Just surviving through the entire day can be extruciating. I'm grateful I've been able to set up my life to never go there again, but even close can be dangerous.
If you had any idea how hard it is to sometimes make it from hour to hour, you'd realize there is nothing easy about staying on planet during two or more years of hell. I personally understand why someone in that situation hits the its too much button frequently. YMMV. My personal opinion and experience. FWIW.
Haven't thought of this in years but u are absolutely correct as far as the feeling of hopelessness...surviving through the day.. I went through it ..something in my life happening..not important what...but so hard to function...I went to sleep one night so deeply depressed...hit rock bottom...woke up next morning and something had come over me...It was almost like my mind, body..what ever took over..said u are killing both of us...enough already. I am taking over figuring this part of it...you just get back to where u were and want to be and as crazy as it sounds...that is exactly what happened...right to today...even with my little mishap with the stroke...no biggie...no remorse, no downers...no psych problems...just get on with it.. Realize very lucky..glad there were no chambers back then...would have missed a pretty good life so far.. ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 14:41:16 GMT -5
While I agree folks should be able to take their lives if they are terminal I think there needs to be a heavy dose of counseling and a psychological analysis prior to giving them the least painful and most peaceful way to do it. I now have two friends that have killed themselves during a temporary bout with depression and I feel guilt along with many others that I didn’t see it coming and been able to do something about it. I agree making it too easy may make it even easier for folks to do it during a short term bout with depression. Watch the Star Trek Next Generation Episode “Half A Life” which details a planet where everyone kills themselves at 60, it is heartbreaking to see people urged by society to kill themselves way before their time. In my opinion if you have ever had Clinical Depression with the big C and D, it does not feel at all temporary. And usually it is two to three years to get better whether you use drugs or not. Just surviving through the entire day can be extruciating. I'm grateful I've been able to set up my life to never go there again, but even close can be dangerous.
If you had any idea how hard it is to sometimes make it from hour to hour, you'd realize there is nothing easy about staying on planet during two or more years of hell. I personally understand why someone in that situation hits the its too much button frequently. YMMV. My personal opinion and experience. FWIW.
I was purely commenting on the two instances I was close to personally where there were clear cut reasons and responses that indicated to everyone that knew them they had short term depression, I was not speaking to chronic, long term depression.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 5, 2017 14:50:44 GMT -5
Not to 'splain the obvious, but - - there is a HUGE difference between someone who is struggling with situational or chronic depression and can be helped medically vs. someone who is universally/medically acknowledged to be at the end of their life span due to a terminal illness and would like to take control the end of their life with some personal dignity.
But that's okay - - let's just continue to lump the broad spectrum of everyone and their individual needs and situations into one little narrow, moralistic code to which many don't even subscribe . . . .
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 5, 2017 15:24:39 GMT -5
In my opinion if you have ever had Clinical Depression with the big C and D, it does not feel at all temporary. And usually it is two to three years to get better whether you use drugs or not. Just surviving through the entire day can be extruciating. I'm grateful I've been able to set up my life to never go there again, but even close can be dangerous.
If you had any idea how hard it is to sometimes make it from hour to hour, you'd realize there is nothing easy about staying on planet during two or more years of hell. I personally understand why someone in that situation hits the its too much button frequently. YMMV. My personal opinion and experience. FWIW.
I was purely commenting on the two instances I was close to personally where there were clear cut reasons and responses that indicated to everyone that knew them they had short term depression, I was not speaking to chronic, long term depression. But you don't know for sure. You were not living in their heads. That's why I have mixed feelings on it. On the surface as an outsider suicide seems like a long term solution to a short term/treatable solution. But on the other hand I really don't know what it's like to be that other person. What appears to be a short term situation to me could be the straw that broke their camel's back. Should my perception of reality be what the decision is based on or should the person the reality belongs to be the one to decide? We had this debate in drama class when we read Death of a Salesman. In the case of treatment some of the drugs used to treat the condition can be worse than the illness itself. I can't in good faith condemn people who opt for suicide as opposed to a lifetime of heavy medication just to function in society. That should be their call to make.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Dec 5, 2017 15:39:02 GMT -5
I wrestle with the idea of suicide. On the one hand I think it's a terrible thing to do to your loved ones. On the other hand I don't believe that I should have the right to decide for other people. I don't walk in their shoes so I have no idea what's going on in their heads. Maybe suicide is a better alternative in their opinion than living with whatever demons plague them or the side effects that come with treating them. Suicide booths are also an opportunity for a captive audience. Allow suicide booths but plaster the insides from top to bottom with hotline information. It's a lot easier to disseminate information to a captive audience than it is to hope these people call you or you find them first. If someone still wants to do it then that should be their right. If they are on the fence being bombarded with assurances there is help may prompt them to seek it as opposed to if they were pulling the trigger in their living room. this post nails what I've been pondering a lot more the last few weeks than is normal, as a local friend recently decided to take his own life. he left behind a wife and teenage son, the latter of whom is the unlucky person to have found B. I can't imagine what could possibly be going on in his head that he felt that suicide was his best option, and to have not thought of the possibility that the kid who was his world might be the one to find him.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 5, 2017 15:41:12 GMT -5
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.' The argument, as made, doesn't require you to embrace anything. Drama suggested that various obstacles and safeguards should be put in place by government vis a vis use of suicide machines. She obviously feels that giving anyone with suicidal ideation a beeline to the exit is harmful to her fellow man. I certainly agree with her. Whether or not you agree, this is a concern based on a moral judgment. Namely, the judgment that human life is precious, suicide has dire ramifications for family/friends, and, at the very least, suicidal individuals should be aggressively dissuaded from carrying out the act. If one does not share this judgment, i.e. one considers suicide moral, lawful, and harmless, the obstacles and safeguards make no sense. They're an impediment to free choice. Government asserting a moral standard it ought not assert. This was a pretext to my point about the incongruous middle ground. The term "moral" appeals to Drama's and my collective moral view on impeding suicide. Personally I can't fathom how anybody touched by suicide (or who's aware of the statistics re suicidal ideation) could want anything other than making suicide as unappealing, difficult, and inconvenient as possible. But we live in an era of moral relativism where people fear condemning even this. Long live choice, down with the Taliban, and such.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Dec 5, 2017 16:01:05 GMT -5
So, suppose someone has money and a large 3D printer, and makes one of these things. Goes through the process and gets the access code, then shoves someone else in the coffin and activates it.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 5, 2017 16:03:10 GMT -5
So, suppose someone has money and a large 3D printer, and makes one of these things. Goes through the process and gets the access code, then shoves someone else in the coffin and activates it. I would call that murder.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 5, 2017 16:11:58 GMT -5
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.' The argument, as made, doesn't require you to embrace anything. Drama suggested that various obstacles and safeguards should be put in place by government vis a vis use of suicide machines. She obviously feels that giving anyone with suicidal ideation a beeline to the exit is harmful to her fellow man. I certainly agree with her. Whether or not you agree, this is a concern based on a moral judgment. Namely, the judgment that human life is precious, suicide has dire ramifications for family/friends, and, at the very least, suicidal individuals should be aggressively dissuaded from carrying out the act. If one does not share this judgment, i.e. one considers suicide moral, lawful, and harmless, the obstacles and safeguards make no sense. They're an impediment to free choice. Government asserting a moral standard it ought not assert. This was a pretext to my point about the incongruous middle ground. The term "moral" appeals to Drama's and my collective moral view on impeding suicide. Personally I can't fathom how anybody touched by suicide (or who's aware of the statistics re suicidal ideation) could want anything other than making suicide as unappealing, difficult, and inconvenient as possible. But we live in an era of moral relativism where people fear condemning even this. Long live choice, down with the Taliban, and such. While I completely agree that life is precious and suicide is anything but desirable I won't go so far as to condemn those who come to the decision to end their lives at the time they wish to do so; nor, do I feel it right to make it difficult for them. As I said, I feel there must be a protective layer between the individual who is suffering and the means to accomplish the ending of that life. I believe this protective layer should serve to educate, to empower, and to mitigate the suffering by other means, if possible. It shouldn't be something, IMO, that one could walk into a booth on the street corner and accomplish. There's nothing Taliban-like in that stance and I resent the implication that there is such staining.
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mollyanna58
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Posts: 6,668
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Post by mollyanna58 on Dec 5, 2017 16:13:22 GMT -5
So, suppose someone has money and a large 3D printer, and makes one of these things. Goes through the process and gets the access code, then shoves someone else in the coffin and activates it. I would call that murder. Yep.
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kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 5, 2017 16:17:32 GMT -5
While I completely agree that life is precious and suicide is anything but desirable I won't go so far as to condemn those who come to the decision to end their lives at the time they wish to do so; nor, do I feel it right to make it difficult for them. As I said, I feel there must be a protective layer between the individual who is suffering and the means to accomplish the ending of that life. I believe this protective layer should serve to educate, to empower, and to mitigate the suffering by other means, if possible. It shouldn't be something, IMO, that one could walk into a booth on the street corner and accomplish. There's nothing Taliban-like in that stance and I resent the implication that there is such staining. *EXACTLY*
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dezii
Distinguished Associate
Joined: May 18, 2017 14:26:36 GMT -5
Posts: 20,671
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Post by dezii on Dec 5, 2017 16:24:23 GMT -5
What hasn't been mentioned is the young people...who have not even started their lives yet as far as meaning really getting into it..
My daughter / son in law and two grand kids faced that situation over the past say six years...both kids have been educated at private schools in town...in middle school, a boy, like the leader of the classes took his own life...First time my grandkids every really faced with death let alone something like this...Naturally there was no indication as far as I know ...both parents very involved in kids life.....financials naturally not a problem...
Then this year...now in the upper class private academy...same thing happened...a twin, popular, soccer team..[son in law is coach[..financials not a problem...parents involved..brother was very close ...yet kid takes his own life..
Both kids u would think had everything to live for yet something in their lives made them take this tragic step...and it isn't a isolated thing regarding young people...
While in High School...had a son of a good friend of my parents do the same thing..Poison..on school grounds...that was a boy friend / girl friend break up thing...supposedly he tried to get help..realized his mistake but to late to help..Again, father and son, close, did everything together...
Family never recovered....
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Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 14:20:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 16:24:45 GMT -5
I was purely commenting on the two instances I was close to personally where there were clear cut reasons and responses that indicated to everyone that knew them they had short term depression, I was not speaking to chronic, long term depression. But you don't know for sure. You were not living in their heads. That's why I have mixed feelings on it. On the surface as an outsider suicide seems like a long term solution to a short term/treatable solution. But on the other hand I really don't know what it's like to be that other person. What appears to be a short term situation to me could be the straw that broke their camel's back. Should my perception of reality be what the decision is based on or should the person the reality belongs to be the one to decide? We had this debate in drama class when we read Death of a Salesman. In the case of treatment some of the drugs used to treat the condition can be worse than the illness itself. I can't in good faith condemn people who opt for suicide as opposed to a lifetime of heavy medication just to function in society. That should be their call to make. In those two situations, yes, I am sure. Again I’m commenting on two specific situations where I have very intimate knowledge, not person x or society at large.
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