countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 24, 2017 23:18:38 GMT -5
I think that is what happened all over. They were gutting the essentials, a few important ones were publicized wonder what the rest were, if they had rammed that through it was essentially gutted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 2:13:46 GMT -5
I wonder if they factored in states that will have ZERO insurers in the "marketplace" I don't see that the fact there are places that one can not take advantage of a "marketplace" policy means the whole thing is going to implode. By itself... it doesn't mean that. I agree. The same way that a nail on the street doesn't mean a tire will be punctured and the car the tire is on will lose control flipping it and killing everyone inside. The implosion will be numerous things that take it down as it crumbles. States with no providers is just one "leg" of the structure failing. But that wasn't what my question was saying. My question was asking "I wonder if they factored in states that will have ZERO insurers in the "marketplace" into their calculations. "They" being the CBO. I wonder if they calculated the effect of that.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 25, 2017 6:44:41 GMT -5
I agree the guy trying to pass legislation and being blocked isn't necessarily the one who looks bad. It depends on the popularity of the legislation. Of course, what do the polls say is popular? More spending on Medicaid. Expansion of coverage. No cuts to existing coverage. More subsidies. In DJ's long list in the other thread, there wasn't a solitary popular item that didn't equate to huge new burdens on the US government. Whichever option costs the most--repeal, don't repeal, replace, ...--the one thing we can be certain of is that America will wind up with it. So there you have it: Americans eagerly speeding ahead towards the chasm along with the rest of us. Short-sighted fools. there is, of course, a way around all of this- and that is that we increase revenues to cover it. we did it in WW2 when there was a huge expansion of socialization (military and social security). we did it under Reagan when SS was seeing a shortfall. the trend since then has been to cut revenues AND increase socialization, and that is not a sustainable future. we are at a crossroads. we can either decide that we are going to pay for our bread and roses, we can stop offering it, or we can go bankrupt. I'm 90% certain tax revenues won't rise significantly before the end of the decade, and provided they did, I'm 99% certain that within two years spending would rise by a commensurate amount, restoring the original shortfalls. Deficits and fiscal sustainability don't matter to people as much as bread and roses. Particularly so with the millennials. These priorities won't change from now until the end, hence the course is set. It just pains me to see it happen with the majority's willingness and consent.
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citizensunite
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Post by citizensunite on Mar 25, 2017 6:59:56 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 25, 2017 8:55:26 GMT -5
One Washington congressman held six town meetings and received a large amount of citizen feedback. He totaled it up: seven in favor of the GOP's American Health Care Act, 2,798 opposed. 2798 people are going to get exactly what they deserve, Obamacare!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 25, 2017 9:17:08 GMT -5
Yup. GOP just withdrew the measure. Not enough support to pass. What a bunch of clowns. Really? Hmmmm, Maybe the repos should done the Cornhusker Kickback or the Louisiana Purchase scheme to get this through! Trump said vote on it! Straight up and down, not enough vote, Kill it. This I think was a smart move on Trumps part, He just kicked this back to the Democrats,, You are now going to live with ACA, As It continues it death spiral.. Now we are coming to the best part,, As the attempt to "fix" Obamacare goes on,this only allows the Medical and Drug lobbyist to introduce their hidden "Easter Eggs" into the the ACA "fix". With every Senator and Congressperson in their payroll, ( by way of Political donations) this will be easy!! This is going to be the next great fleecing of America! Nothing to control cost!! the insurance, drug and medical CEO's are dancing in the streets.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 25, 2017 9:19:21 GMT -5
I wonder if they factored in states that will have ZERO insurers in the "marketplace" I don't see that the fact there are places that one can not take advantage of a "marketplace" policy means the whole thing is going to implode. Why would we need Obamacare?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 25, 2017 9:22:35 GMT -5
... Nothing to control cost!! the insurance, drug and medical CEO's are dancing in the streets. What was in the new bill that would have controlled costs?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 25, 2017 9:26:20 GMT -5
... Nothing to control cost!! the insurance, drug and medical CEO's are dancing in the streets. What was in the new bill that would have controlled costs? I absolutely agree with you Bill, There was nothing there!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 25, 2017 9:29:54 GMT -5
I don't see that the fact there are places that one can not take advantage of a "marketplace" policy means the whole thing is going to implode. Why would we need Obamacare? Because many still benefit from it.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 25, 2017 9:54:23 GMT -5
One Washington congressman held six town meetings and received a large amount of citizen feedback. He totaled it up: seven in favor of the GOP's American Health Care Act, 2,798 opposed. DH and i went to a town meeting with our congressman. In 2 1/2 hours, not one person spoke in favor of the bill. Several people said that they were under treatment for a serious illness and would likely die if the bill passed and they lost their ACA coverage. Our congressman is a good guy. Also very smart and articulate. This proves activism works. All the phone calls, letters, post cards, and speaking out DO have an effect.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 25, 2017 10:54:58 GMT -5
there is, of course, a way around all of this- and that is that we increase revenues to cover it. we did it in WW2 when there was a huge expansion of socialization (military and social security). we did it under Reagan when SS was seeing a shortfall. the trend since then has been to cut revenues AND increase socialization, and that is not a sustainable future. we are at a crossroads. we can either decide that we are going to pay for our bread and roses, we can stop offering it, or we can go bankrupt. I'm 90% certain tax revenues won't rise significantly before the end of the decade, and provided they did, I'm 99% certain that within two years spending would rise by a commensurate amount, restoring the original shortfalls. Deficits and fiscal sustainability don't matter to people as much as bread and roses. Particularly so with the millennials. These priorities won't change from now until the end, hence the course is set. It just pains me to see it happen with the majority's willingness and consent. why? because we won't raise taxes? and if so, again: why? in the 90's, taxes rose and spending did not, so i am not buying your second point, either.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 25, 2017 11:20:21 GMT -5
Although so many conservatives here worship Trump, he really isn't one. The conservatives in Congress, the Freedom Coalition, killed this bill before it could even achieve a vote. The existing rift in the Repo party, spackled over with election win hubris, has cracked open yet again. They showed Trump up and it was another major loss for the POTUS.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 25, 2017 11:45:21 GMT -5
One Washington congressman held six town meetings and received a large amount of citizen feedback. He totaled it up: seven in favor of the GOP's American Health Care Act, 2,798 opposed. 2798 people are going to get exactly what they deserve, Obamacare! And I can guarantee they are going to be far happier with that than the POS that the GOP was trying to saddle them with!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2017 11:45:33 GMT -5
I thought it was pretty funny that the Freedom Coalition were really responsible for the death of this. They wanted less than the 'replace' offered, but instead left the full Obamacare in place.
I just keep on wondering, can something implode and explode at the same time?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 25, 2017 12:00:41 GMT -5
Yup. GOP just withdrew the measure. Not enough support to pass. What a bunch of clowns. Really? Hmmmm, Maybe the repos should done the Cornhusker Kickback or the Louisiana Purchase scheme to get this through! Trump said vote on it! Straight up and down, not enough vote, Kill it. This I think was a smart move on Trumps part, He just kicked this back to the Democrats,,
You are now going to live with ACA, As It continues it death spiral..Now we are coming to the best part,, As the attempt to "fix" Obamacare goes on,this only allows the Medical and Drug lobbyist to introduce their hidden "Easter Eggs" into the the ACA "fix". With every Senator and Congressperson in their payroll, ( by way of Political donations) this will be easy!! This is going to be the next great fleecing of America! Nothing to control cost!! the insurance, drug and medical CEO's are dancing in the streets. So you think the Democrats are going to be blamed for the Republicans coming up with a plan that nobody liked, that would have kicked 24 million people off the insurance rolls, and that would have increased premiums by over $10,000 for older, low-income people? That is, for those who could even get insurance at all? While giving large tax cuts to the already wealthy? What world do you live in? And the "death spiral" is not only completely overblown, but to the extent it exists at all is due at least in part to Republicans sabotaging ACA. The GOP plan was worse than what we had before, and I would sooner close all the hospitals and let doctors and other medical personnel get jobs driving cabs or sweeping streets than adopt this piece of sh**.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 25, 2017 12:02:34 GMT -5
One Washington congressman held six town meetings and received a large amount of citizen feedback. He totaled it up: seven in favor of the GOP's American Health Care Act, 2,798 opposed. DH and i went to a town meeting with our congressman. In 2 1/2 hours, not one person spoke in favor of the bill. Several people said that they were under treatment for a serious illness and would likely die if the bill passed and they lost their ACA coverage. Our congressman is a good guy. Also very smart and articulate. This proves activism works. All the phone calls, letters, post cards, and speaking out DO have an effect. So you'll be voting republican in the mid terms, I assume?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 25, 2017 12:06:10 GMT -5
Although so many conservatives here worship Trump, he really isn't one. The conservatives in Congress, the Freedom Coalition, killed this bill before it could even achieve a vote. The existing rift in the Repo party, spackled over with election win hubris, has cracked open yet again. They showed Trump up and it was another major loss for the POTUS. I don't blame Trump, I blame the GOP in congress. Trump doesn't control congress. But I agree it looks bad for Trump. A major campaign promise goes unfullfilled and his reputation, to the extent there was one, of a deal maker has flopped.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 25, 2017 12:08:47 GMT -5
I think that is what happened all over. They were gutting the essentials, a few important ones were publicized wonder what the rest were, if they had rammed that through it was essentially gutted. The whole ACA was engineered from the ground up to fail. When it does, the "solution" is going to be single payer, the true holy grail for the democrats.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 25, 2017 12:16:46 GMT -5
DH and i went to a town meeting with our congressman. In 2 1/2 hours, not one person spoke in favor of the bill. Several people said that they were under treatment for a serious illness and would likely die if the bill passed and they lost their ACA coverage. Our congressman is a good guy. Also very smart and articulate. This proves activism works. All the phone calls, letters, post cards, and speaking out DO have an effect. So you'll be voting republican in the mid terms, I assume? What possible misreading of anything here could ever lead you to that conclusion?
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 25, 2017 12:19:18 GMT -5
We have single payor for medicare, is that such a bad thing? It works well, always has. For mom it was very smooth, paid everything because we took the better insurance, never had any issues with it.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 25, 2017 12:20:46 GMT -5
Businesses overseas have an advantage as do our companies that have moved overseas as those countries have healthcare for the most part and is not paid for directly by businesses.
We need health insurance, there are very few people that can carry the expense of illnesses on their own.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 25, 2017 12:25:52 GMT -5
Trump promised to repeal and replace Obamacare 68 times, and replace it with "something terrific". You elected a guy who doesn't understand...well....anything.
"Who knew healthcare was so complicated?" Everyone but you, Mr. Trump. Everyone but you.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2017 13:41:01 GMT -5
I think that is what happened all over. They were gutting the essentials, a few important ones were publicized wonder what the rest were, if they had rammed that through it was essentially gutted. The whole ACA was engineered from the ground up to fail. When it does, the "solution" is going to be single payer, the true holy grail for the democrats. I have been hearing this for many years, and I'm not sure how that would work. Would insurance companies be disbanded and Medicare just be expanded until it includes everyone? Or would the government just pay all the insurance companies? Due to the financial relationship between insurance companies and politicians, I don't see either of those happening. It would be financially devastating to the insurance companies, and since they pay politicians to make laws, I just don't think it would go that way. I could be missing something here. What do the insurance companies want to happen and why?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 25, 2017 15:01:02 GMT -5
The whole ACA was engineered from the ground up to fail. When it does, the "solution" is going to be single payer, the true holy grail for the democrats. I have been hearing this for many years, and I'm not sure how that would work. Would insurance companies be disbanded and Medicare just be expanded until it includes everyone? Or would the government just pay all the insurance companies? Due to the financial relationship between insurance companies and politicians, I don't see either of those happening. It would be financially devastating to the insurance companies, and since they pay politicians to make laws, I just don't think it would go that way. I could be missing something here. What do the insurance companies want to happen and why? I could care less what happens to the ins companies. Imo, they are blood sucking leeches on the system. Lots of developed countries have single payer. And people have their choice of hc providers. Switzerland does have ins companies, but they are heavily regulated by the gov't.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 25, 2017 15:18:11 GMT -5
We have single payor for medicare, is that such a bad thing? It works well, always has. For mom it was very smooth, paid everything because we took the better insurance, never had any issues with it. it works well because you have an advocate in your carrier rather than an adversary. it is so simple that i can't fathom why so few people get it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 25, 2017 15:19:18 GMT -5
Although so many conservatives here worship Trump, he really isn't one. The conservatives in Congress, the Freedom Coalition, killed this bill before it could even achieve a vote. The existing rift in the Repo party, spackled over with election win hubris, has cracked open yet again. They showed Trump up and it was another major loss for the POTUS. I don't blame Trump, I blame the GOP in congress. Trump doesn't control congress. But I agree it looks bad for Trump. A major campaign promise goes unfullfilled and his reputation, to the extent there was one, of a deal maker has flopped. you should blame both. do you need me to explain why?
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 25, 2017 15:23:06 GMT -5
We pay National Insurance and that covers the populations medical needs... cradle to grave. Its like a form of tax really.... there is no profit to be made by any insurance company.
You can take out private insurance if you want plush carpets and better food....but you'll see the same doctor and if something goes wrong you'll be taken to the nearest local hospital.
There are problems in that they don't seem to have enough money... but we love the fact that no-one ever has to worry about medical bills.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 25, 2017 15:32:00 GMT -5
... ....but you'll see the same doctor ... Who paid for that doctor's education/training?
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toshmanta
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Post by toshmanta on Mar 25, 2017 15:50:27 GMT -5
... ....but you'll see the same doctor ... Who paid for that doctor's education/training? In Scotland tuition fees are free, so the taxpayer pays for all education and health needs,we also care for the elderly. It is not known as God's country for nowt.
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