steff
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Post by steff on Jan 23, 2017 17:53:30 GMT -5
I'm curious as to why all of a sudden this is an issue. We had a year of "Crooked Hillary" but now all of a sudden, it's not okay?
Sounds like one side can't take what they spent a lot of time dishing out.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 17:57:45 GMT -5
DJ, you are not getting what Dem and I have said. Or, you're choosing to argue for the sake of arguing. I always thought it was a rule not to allow the name-calling, even though it wasn't in the COC. Dem thought differently. I'm sure we aren't the only two that had a different understanding of what was permissible and what wasn't. So, that being the case, it's not as simple as saying "oh it used to be okay and now all of a sudden it's not." Regardless of the outcome of the poll, it's clear that those types of names are not going to be allowed going forward either way. I don't see why you feel so strongly that you ought to be able to stoop to such a low level. You're a bigger person than that, I thought. well, then i will try to explain it, one more time. in the history of public political discourse, mocking and jeering public figures has figured LARGELY in the tradition. it is not considered uncivil, rude, vulgar or any other adjective you would like to use. it is considered normal, and very much part of the free speech canon. i thought (mistakenly) that this board tolerated such speech, given that this is a political discussion board. i have tried to be, at all times, respectful of OTHER POSTERS here, which is more than i can say for many that post here. i have also tried to admit my faults when i have them, to concede arguments when i have lost them, and take the time to compliment even those i bitterly disagree with when they have a winning point. but this? no. i won't stop calling this idiot President Trump. period. you can think whatever you like of me. it will have no impact. i know who i am. i am a person who stands for decency and respect of other humans. but i draw the line at those that fail to do that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 17:59:23 GMT -5
I'm curious as to why all of a sudden this is an issue. We had a year of "Crooked Hillary" but now all of a sudden, it's not okay? Sounds like one side can't take what they spent a lot of time dishing out. we had Barry Soetero for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS, steff. this "decision"- this "vote"- at THIS TIME, is utterly outrageous, inappropriate, unwarranted, unfair and..... WRONG.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:01:43 GMT -5
so, you are going to bar a reciprocal response? how is that in ANY WAY fair? i am so glad you guys aren't congress. then again, maybe you are. what do i know? I'm not barring anything. I get the same vote as everyone else. One vote. .
cool, so you and others are voting to limit free speech? well that's just ducky, GEL. what shall we put on the docket, next? shall we vote that only proper english be used here? that we have to capitalize the beginnings of all sentences? that mocking and jeering in general is not allowed? i was under the grossly mistaken impression that there was far more latitude on this board than there is, when something this fundamental to political discourse is being shelved.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:04:01 GMT -5
Not meant to be hypocritical at all. This election, however, brought out - and is STILL bringing out - the worst in a lot of people. To me, when we started the thread stating that we weren't allowing the name calling, it was a *reiteration* of something that I thought was already in place. Has/had nothing to do with Trump over anyone else. of course not. but the timing of this little mandate means that you are taking away a weapon that has been used since the day i started here. i realize that you never intended that weapon to be used- but it has been. you know what, whatever. do whatever you like. it's your board, and your rules.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:08:16 GMT -5
I agree. Years of "little barry" "bho" (and you can say what you want, but not even bothering to capitalize the sitting president's initials is meant to be belittling), "shillary" "killary" "barry HUSSEIN SOTERO" etc, etc. Years. No censoring, no deleting. Suddenly because people call Trump names it is NOW an issue? The crowd that likes to poke fun at the delicate snowflakes has made an issue with it? Color me unsurprised. I'm sure it's the same people who sat idly by while Trump publicly questioned the sitting president's legitimacy for years; and now constantly yammer on about how we need to "respect the office". Unreal.
If that's the rule, that's fine, it doesn't bother me overly much. But why hasn't it been the rule for the years that people have been demeaning President Obama? You'll have to go back and delete all of Paul and Shooby's posts, for pete's sake!
We are putting it to a vote. Why now? Because the "no abusing names" rule originated this past election cycle. Why this past cycle? Because the abuse grew to the point where it was omnipresent. I won't repeat any of them here, but epithets for Ted Cruz, Ms. Clinton, Pres. Clinton, Pres. Trump, Ms. Trump, Pres. Obama, as well as references to their age, physique, voice, etc. blanketed the landscape whilst posters strove to express their contempt. Hence the decision was made to allow "Crooked Hillary" and "President Trump", and to disallow all others. The rule-with-exceptions has resulted in some confusion, hence we put the issue to a vote. Consider it like a dress code. A bare minimum standard of decorum.how can you type stuff that is that devoid of perspective? this THING that you are going after today has been here since the day i signed on. but that's fine. if i am outnumbered here, then you can comfort yourselves by saying "wow, i thought dj was different than that". well, i bloody well am. i think that people should be able to use whatever language they wish to describe people that are not going to be injured in any way by that language. that is how i like my politics- full of saucy, tongue in cheek or LOL twists of English that range from lighthearted banter to mean spirited demeaning. but particularly in light of the present challenges, i think it wise to use everything at my disposal. President Trump is the least of the weaponry. i think it should be TOLERATED. just as we have TOLERATED BARRY SOETERO for the last EIGHT YEARS.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:11:30 GMT -5
i asked tallguy , and no response, so i will ask YOU, deminmaine , if President Trump is going to be off limits, what is the most demeaning, condescending, and possibly funny description i can use other than his name? you seem to have put most of them off limits. how about DiC? yeah, i know, childish, right? edit: i think that the policy of not allowing caricaturing is also highly suspect/unwise. that has ALSO been a staple of political discourse dating back to the Middle Ages. so, one might say that this is kind of the straw for me, not just some random thing.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:13:04 GMT -5
PS- i don't appreciate the fact that over 20 people voted before i got to state the OPPOSING position.
#unfair
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 23, 2017 18:18:10 GMT -5
disclaimer: CAPITALIZED, underlined, or bolded words are for emphasis only, and do not convey any special interest or "passion" on my part. don't take them that way. Font size, on the other hand, ...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 23, 2017 18:19:12 GMT -5
i asked tallguy, and no response, so i will ask YOU, deminmaine, if President Trump is going to be off limits, what is the most demeaning, condescending, and possibly funny description i can use other than his name? ... President?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 18:19:28 GMT -5
As I already explained, DJ, whether or not "mocking and jeering" is widely accepted or not is irrelevant here. Our posters have unfortunately proven many times over that they will go way past any line of decency and we do have to abide by the PB Terms of Service above all else. That is why we don't get true "free speech" on this forum. How do you decide what's an acceptable level of diss, after all? It's way easier to avoid being warned by PB when you just say no to the concept. I'm sorry that's not something you agree with.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:20:58 GMT -5
disclaimer: CAPITALIZED, underlined, or bolded words are for emphasis only, and do not convey any special interest or "passion" on my part. don't take them that way. Font size, on the other hand, ... ok, that was funny. and it was also accurate. i am indeed pissed off. but i can still type in complete sentences, and spell reasonably.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 23, 2017 18:23:54 GMT -5
Maybe there should be a period of time for board member comments and then a period of time for voting.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 18:25:03 GMT -5
PS- i don't appreciate the fact that over 20 people voted before i got to state the OPPOSING position. #unfair What??! This isn't an election where *anyone* gets to state a position for or against. The poll was opened last night and it stays open until midnight Friday night. Anyone can change how they voted at any point if they are swayed in some way. Unfair? Flat out ridiculous. It will be one way or the other, and insults are not going to be allowed ever, regardless of outcome. So discuss then vote is moot.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 23, 2017 18:28:35 GMT -5
i asked tallguy , and no response, so i will ask YOU, deminmaine , if President Trump is going to be off limits, what is the most demeaning, condescending, and possibly funny description i can use other than his name? you seem to have put most of them off limits. how about DiC? yeah, i know, childish, right? edit: i think that the policy of not allowing caricaturing is also highly suspect/unwise. that has ALSO been a staple of political discourse dating back to the Middle Ages. so, one might say that this is kind of the straw for me, not just some random thing. I have many times impugned his character, his honesty, his maturity, and other things about him. I just call him by his name or title when I do it. Should be fine.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:30:23 GMT -5
As I already explained, DJ, whether or not "mocking and jeering" is widely accepted or not is irrelevant here. Our posters have unfortunately proven many times over that they will go way past any line of decency and we do have to abide by the PB Terms of Service above all else. That is why we don't get true "free speech" on this forum. How do you decide what's an acceptable level of diss, after all? It's way easier to avoid being warned by PB when you just say no to the concept. I'm sorry that's not something you agree with. i have already conceded ALL OF that, moon. look, we are wasting time, here. i am campaigning. you are campaigning against me. if you win, and it looks as if you will, you can have the board you like. of course, you don't need to subject matters like this to a vote. you can simply set the policy, which you appear to have done. i only wish that i had known about it sooner. and listen, i wish that everyone here would stop making this so PERSONAL. i like you, i like everyone here. it is just not how i like to post. i like to express myself using whatever language i choose. i KNOW that it upsets some people. so do some of my favourite authors. so do some of my favourite comics. so do some of my favourite musicians. i think upsetting is GOOD. upsetting means that something has jostled loose, and is rattling around, making noise, and that will inevitably lead to growth. but i realize that some people don't like that at all. they just want to relax and unwind. but if you haven't been able to tell by my FIFTY THOUSAND POSTS, i don't unwind easily. i like to stay sharp, and use my wits, and my head, and hit it with everything i have. my MISTAKE was thinking that this board allowed for that. and i am deeply sorry for that mistake.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:31:17 GMT -5
PS- i don't appreciate the fact that over 20 people voted before i got to state the OPPOSING position. #unfair What??! This isn't an election where *anyone* gets to state a position for or against. The poll was opened last night and it stays open until midnight Friday night. Anyone can change how they voted at any point if they are swayed in some way. Unfair? Flat out ridiculous. It will be one way or the other, and insults are not going to be allowed ever, regardless of outcome. So discuss then vote is moot. see, any time i use a hashtag, i am imitating President Trump. see how irritating that was? see how disrespectful and self centered? yeah. thought so.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:31:56 GMT -5
i asked tallguy , and no response, so i will ask YOU, deminmaine , if President Trump is going to be off limits, what is the most demeaning, condescending, and possibly funny description i can use other than his name? you seem to have put most of them off limits. how about DiC? yeah, i know, childish, right? edit: i think that the policy of not allowing caricaturing is also highly suspect/unwise. that has ALSO been a staple of political discourse dating back to the Middle Ages. so, one might say that this is kind of the straw for me, not just some random thing. I have many times impugned his character, his honesty, his maturity, and other things about him. I just call him by his name or title when I do it. Should be fine. #not_enough
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 23, 2017 18:34:04 GMT -5
I have many times impugned his character, his honesty, his maturity, and other things about him. I just call him by his name or title when I do it. Should be fine. #not_enough Dude! It's not like I'm FINISHED! This is DAY FOUR! Give me time! You know he's going to give me OPPORTUNITY!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:46:20 GMT -5
I ask ye, good people of the board, with whom i have enjoyed so much diverting conversation and debate, is it not easier to simply tolerate some minor mangling and caricaturing of political figures than to fence off debate against it?
Are we not civilized enough to agree to some minor concessions to the disillusioned, the angry- to poke fun at the targets of their indignation??
Is it REALLY uncivil to conduct oneself in a childish way toward those that are not even members of this board, and never shall be?
NAY, I say- this is an assault on the very ESSENCE of the freedom for which our fathers and grandfathers and great grandfathers and great great grandfathers and great great great grandfathers and great great great great grandfathers and great great great great great grandfathers (well some of them, anyway) fought and died for!!!
So, I say to you, RISE UP, and challenge this PC rubbish and vanquish it, as you did so nobly, so honorably and so thoroughly to the Democratic Party!!!!
GOD BLESS YOU, AND GOD BLESS THIS BOARD!!!
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Post by Jaguar on Jan 23, 2017 18:47:36 GMT -5
You can change your vote, I've changed mine. Just click on your check box that you marked, it removes your vote. Then vote again to your hearts content.
While I'm not 100% for it, I'm maybe about 65% to 70%, I can see that while one side will be curtailed, so will the other side. Seriously I think it will be harder for them.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:47:58 GMT -5
i tried to type the wrong use of Democrat above, but, of course, it auto corrected.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:49:20 GMT -5
You can change your vote, I've changed mine. Just click on your check box that you marked, it removes your vote. Then vote again to your hearts content. While I'm not 100% for it, I'm maybe about 65% to 70%, I can see that while one side will be curtailed, so will the other side. Seriously I think it will be harder for them. AMEN, SISTER!!! THANK YOU FOR RISING UP AND JOINING ME IN OUR NOBLE QUEST TO FREE US FROM THE OPPRESSORS!!! oh wait....you're one of them. never mind.
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jan 23, 2017 18:50:43 GMT -5
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 18:51:56 GMT -5
"you are campaigning against me."
Incorrect. I am not trying to campaign at all! All I am doing is responding to peoples' comments and attempting to explain why the rules are up for a vote in the first place.
I don't personally give a shit which way the vote goes. I *do* care that people feel the need to talk about political figures in such a nasty way that we could get a warning from PB. Fuck that!
I get how you feel, because can't freaking stand him and would like to say what I really think too. But there's a place for that..And this ain't it - because of PB's rules.
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Post by Jaguar on Jan 23, 2017 18:53:49 GMT -5
"you are campaigning against me." Incorrect. I am not trying to campaign at all! All I am doing is responding to peoples' comments and attempting to explain why the rules are up for a vote in the first place. I don't personally give a shit which way the vote goes. I *do* care that people feel the need to talk about political figures in such a nasty way that we could get a warning from PB. Fuck that! I get how you feel, because can't freaking stand him and would like to say what I really think too. But there's a place for that..And this ain't it - because of PB's rules. Yup my feeling as well.
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Post by tallguy on Jan 23, 2017 18:55:55 GMT -5
Small price to pay if we can heed the admonition in #31.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 18:58:46 GMT -5
more food for thoughtful:
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 19:02:06 GMT -5
"you are campaigning against me." Incorrect. I am not trying to campaign at all! All I am doing is responding to peoples' comments and attempting to explain why the rules are up for a vote in the first place. I don't personally give a shit which way the vote goes. I *do* care that people feel the need to talk about political figures in such a nasty way that we could get a warning from PB. Fuck that! I get how you feel, because can't freaking stand him and would like to say what I really think too. But there's a place for that..And this ain't it - because of PB's rules. there is NOTHING in PB's rules that prevent the skewering and caricaturing of President Trump. if you DISAGREE, then please, point out the chapter and verse of the TAC that states this and i will back down IMMEDIATELY. otherwise, you are standing up for a policy that doesn't exist, and bowing to the frail emotions of the victors in the last election. President Trump IS NOT A MEMBER OF THIS BOARD. what happens on this board, stays on this board. the only people that can possibly be offended are those that are so closely attached to him that they feel PERSONALLY hurt by it. my goal is to cleave those ties. they are unhealthy. and i am a caring man.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 19:02:48 GMT -5
i asked tallguy , and no response, so i will ask YOU, deminmaine , if President Trump is going to be off limits, what is the most demeaning, condescending, and possibly funny description i can use other than his name? you seem to have put most of them off limits. how about DiC? yeah, i know, childish, right? edit: i think that the policy of not allowing caricaturing is also highly suspect/unwise. that has ALSO been a staple of political discourse dating back to the Middle Ages. so, one might say that this is kind of the straw for me, not just some random thing. You're a bright guy dj, I'm sure you'll think of something. i've already thought of plenty. none of them passed muster. so, DiC. ok? not ok? how about Twitler?
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