Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 15:06:38 GMT -5
I've seen and ignored them for years. I never assumed they were not allowed. However I felt they also made the people who used them look like pathetic little racist turds who were incapable of rational intellectual debate. In other words, they were counter productive. Agreed. Now substitute "infantile" for "racist" and you know exactly how the other side is feeling.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 15:06:53 GMT -5
I guess this is a prime example of a situation where staff isn't all on the same page. I thought it was understood that we didn't allow it. But it wasn't ever actually part of the CoC, so Dem (at least) thought differently. My bad.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jan 23, 2017 15:08:48 GMT -5
in case some of you missed it- THIS is why i am fighting this fight: “With regard to freedom of speech there are basically two positions: you defend it vigorously for views you hate, or you reject it and prefer Stalinist/fascist standards. It is unfortunate that it remains necessary to stress these simple truths.” you either believe in protecting the speech you hate, or you don't believe in free speech. i sat quiet for (8) years as Obama was ridiculed and demeaned. i never ONCE suggested that the ridicule be shut down. not ONCE. you President Trump supporters should do the same, imo, if you have any sense of fair play. but apparently you don't. i am disappointed that the Democrats don't, but that's cool. at least i know where everyone stands. I agree. Years of "little barry" "bho" (and you can say what you want, but not even bothering to capitalize the sitting president's initials is meant to be belittling), "shillary" "killary" "barry HUSSEIN SOTERO" etc, etc. Years. No censoring, no deleting. Suddenly because people call Trump names it is NOW an issue? The crowd that likes to poke fun at the delicate snowflakes has made an issue with it? Color me unsurprised. I'm sure it's the same people who sat idly by while Trump publicly questioned the sitting president's legitimacy for years; and now constantly yammer on about how we need to "respect the office". Unreal.
If that's the rule, that's fine, it doesn't bother me overly much. But why hasn't it been the rule for the years that people have been demeaning President Obama? You'll have to go back and delete all of Paul and Shooby's posts, for pete's sake!
So this! I am a patient person, but I have very little tolerance for the willfully ignorant, or for self-righteous hypocrites. The loud and obnoxious have become louder and even more obnoxious (who knew that was possible!?) and whine the most while calling other's names, getting nasty, and now whining about this issue after all the crap they've said and done for years. I just don't get this type of thinking and it's getting harder and harder to be around it reading it. I try to avoid these types in RL and seeing it so prevalent here has ruined this board. Doing it now and then to be funny or make a point is one thing but I really wish Trump, his team, and many of his followers would seek medical evaluation from a medical health team. A real one. Not an alternative one.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jan 23, 2017 15:10:12 GMT -5
I've seen and ignored them for years. I never assumed they were not allowed. However I felt they also made the people who used them look like pathetic little racist turds who were incapable of rational intellectual debate. In other words, they were counter productive. I agree with your sentiment.
But if even the mods didn't know they were not allowed, then I think that means they were allowed by default. Perhaps accidentally, but still allowed to populate the boards. It seems awfully hypocritical to suddenly make demeaning and belittling the president not allowed.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jan 23, 2017 15:13:04 GMT -5
I've seen and ignored them for years. I never assumed they were not allowed. However I felt they also made the people who used them look like pathetic little racist turds who were incapable of rational intellectual debate. In other words, they were counter productive. Agreed. Now substitute "infantile" for "racist" and you know exactly how the other side is feeling. Huh? I'm not sure which side is the "other side" you are referring to, but the sissy liberals weren't the ones raising a big stink when many members of the board chose to use demeaning terms to refer to the president. This appears to be a conservative issue.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 15:13:51 GMT -5
Not meant to be hypocritical at all. This election, however, brought out - and is STILL bringing out - the worst in a lot of people. To me, when we started the thread stating that we weren't allowing the name calling, it was a *reiteration* of something that I thought was already in place. Has/had nothing to do with Trump over anyone else.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 23, 2017 15:14:34 GMT -5
in case some of you missed it- THIS is why i am fighting this fight: “With regard to freedom of speech there are basically two positions: you defend it vigorously for views you hate, or you reject it and prefer Stalinist/fascist standards. It is unfortunate that it remains necessary to stress these simple truths.” you either believe in protecting the speech you hate, or you don't believe in free speech. i sat quiet for (8) years as Obama was ridiculed and demeaned. i never ONCE suggested that the ridicule be shut down. not ONCE. you President Trump supporters should do the same, imo, if you have any sense of fair play. but apparently you don't. i am disappointed that the Democrats don't, but that's cool. at least i know where everyone stands. I agree. Years of "little barry" "bho" (and you can say what you want, but not even bothering to capitalize the sitting president's initials is meant to be belittling), "shillary" "killary" "barry HUSSEIN SOTERO" etc, etc. Years. No censoring, no deleting. Suddenly because people call Trump names it is NOW an issue? The crowd that likes to poke fun at the delicate snowflakes has made an issue with it? Color me unsurprised. I'm sure it's the same people who sat idly by while Trump publicly questioned the sitting president's legitimacy for years; and now constantly yammer on about how we need to "respect the office". Unreal.
If that's the rule, that's fine, it doesn't bother me overly much. But why hasn't it been the rule for the years that people have been demeaning President Obama? You'll have to go back and delete all of Paul and Shooby's posts, for pete's sake!
We are putting it to a vote. Why now? Because the "no abusing names" rule originated this past election cycle. Why this past cycle? Because the abuse grew to the point where it was omnipresent. I won't repeat any of them here, but epithets for Ted Cruz, Ms. Clinton, Pres. Clinton, Pres. Trump, Ms. Trump, Pres. Obama, as well as references to their age, physique, voice, etc. blanketed the landscape whilst posters strove to express their contempt. Hence the decision was made to allow "Crooked Hillary" and "President Trump", and to disallow all others. The rule-with-exceptions has resulted in some confusion, hence we put the issue to a vote. Consider it like a dress code. A bare minimum standard of decorum.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 15:17:07 GMT -5
"sissy liberals" isn't helping. What if I said "asshole republicans" or something like that? Neither are cool, and I get so effing tired of people broadstroking qualities on entire groups of people. Not every member of every political/ethnic/religious group are the same!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 15:17:33 GMT -5
I hope there is no voter fraud issue.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 15:18:35 GMT -5
Hope no non-members get to vote.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 15:18:52 GMT -5
At least ID was required.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 15:21:59 GMT -5
Guests cannot vote in polls. Log out and see for yourself.
I also do not vote in any of our polls.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 15:23:21 GMT -5
Guests cannot vote in polls. Log out and see for yourself. I also do not vote in any of our polls. Just kidding. Trying to lighten up the moment with some of the same complaints from the election!
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 15:25:08 GMT -5
well, i wanted to reassure the members that that was not going to be the case.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 23, 2017 15:26:20 GMT -5
Guests cannot vote in polls. Log out and see for yourself. I also do not vote in any of our polls. Just kidding. Trying to lighten up the moment with some of the same complaints from the election! Diffusing a tense situation with humour. Seeking peace and a beer in the midst of hostility. You get the Honourary Canadian badge for today.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 15:31:12 GMT -5
I hate beer, but I'll take the badge! Canada appears to be a wonderful place to be. Maybe if I'm Canadian For A Day, I'll have time to teach you how to spell "honorary"!
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jan 23, 2017 15:32:28 GMT -5
I've seen and ignored them for years. I never assumed they were not allowed. However I felt they also made the people who used them look like pathetic little racist turds who were incapable of rational intellectual debate. In other words, they were counter productive. I started seeing people before Obama saying things about Bush calling him things like Bushy. I found it disrespectful and thought it made them look like pathetic little turds but not racist. I was raised to call the president Mr. President including all former presidents not Former President Carter for example it would be President Carter. I think President Carter was one of the worst ever but still wouldn't call him anything but President Carter. With President Trump, I don't like him, respect him or think he is a good president. The Donald reminds me of his TV show and I don't consider it an insult even if I hated the show. I feel sorry for his wife and youngest son.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jan 23, 2017 15:39:04 GMT -5
Guests cannot vote in polls. Log out and see for yourself. I also do not vote in any of our polls. You should get a vote! Every vote counts!
LOL. I'm probably not voting on this. I don't know that it matters to me. It just mattered to me that it was all well and good that people referred to our sitting president by craptastic demeaning names for years and now that it's a new president it's verboten. But I see there were a lot of misunderstandings regarding the rules. That's highly unfortunate, but it is what it is at this point.
(and by the way, I am one of the sissy liberals I was referring to! I was joking and forgot to add a smiley.)
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 23, 2017 15:39:52 GMT -5
For the record, I was the one who pushed for using only real names on the old MSN politics board, so obviously I would be in favor of it here as well. It is not necessary to demean someone's name to insult them, and I for one am perfectly capable of insulting someone in MANY other ways. In fact, with people like Donald Trump and George W. Bush, all you have to do is tell the truth. That is insulting enough!
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 23, 2017 15:49:05 GMT -5
Ok Moon's replies to questions made me think of one. Would initials be ok under option 1? I've used HRC, W, BO, etc and while they aren't exactly proper names I don't think they are disrespectful in any way shape or form I dunno...BO means body odor. You get one guess what dt stands for --- and I didn't name him when he was born so I can wash my hands of this.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 16:06:57 GMT -5
I've seen and ignored them for years. I never assumed they were not allowed. However I felt they also made the people who used them look like pathetic little racist turds who were incapable of rational intellectual debate. In other words, they were counter productive. Agreed. Now substitute "infantile" for "racist" and you know exactly how the other side is feeling. so, you are going to bar a reciprocal response? how is that in ANY WAY fair? i am so glad you guys aren't congress. then again, maybe you are. what do i know?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2017 16:07:53 GMT -5
For the record, I was the one who pushed for using only real names on the old MSN politics board, so obviously I would be in favor of it here as well. It is not necessary to demean someone's name to insult them, and I for one am perfectly capable of insulting someone in MANY other ways. In fact, with people like Donald Trump and George W. Bush, all you have to do is tell the truth. That is insulting enough! so am i. but unfortunately, all of the good ones are ALSO banned. so what the fuck do we have left? help me out here, will you?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 23, 2017 16:21:53 GMT -5
DJ, you are not getting what Dem and I have said. Or, you're choosing to argue for the sake of arguing.
I always thought it was a rule not to allow the name-calling, even though it wasn't in the COC. Dem thought differently. I'm sure we aren't the only two that had a different understanding of what was permissible and what wasn't. So, that being the case, it's not as simple as saying "oh it used to be okay and now all of a sudden it's not."
Regardless of the outcome of the poll, it's clear that those types of names are not going to be allowed going forward either way. I don't see why you feel so strongly that you ought to be able to stoop to such a low level. You're a bigger person than that, I thought.
And for anyone who might be wondering, I absolutely *can* vote in the poll. I just choose not to, because I want it to be your decision.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 23, 2017 16:24:04 GMT -5
1. Punishment will be post deletion as it is now. And I suppose if someone were a frequent repeat offender - indicating that they were deliberately thumbing their nose at the rule - we would probably consider a timeout. May I make a suggestion on this. Every now and then complaints flare up the mods are letting some particular poster slide after they write a demeaning word or phrase about a public figure or even another poster. They complain the posts don't get deleted and/or the poster doesn't get warned because they are friends with the moderator. The current procedure when a post with inappropriate comments is removed is to completely eliminate any trace of it including the poster information on the left hand side of the post and the reply # and time the post was originally made above it. Posters reading any one particular thread will not see that a post was deleted. Instead of completely removing the thread and advising the offending poster through a PM a post of theirs was removed, why not just remove the content from within the offending post and tag the poster within the now blank comments area and advise a post of theirs has been removed. This suggestion might solve the problem of perceived favoritism of moderators for certain posters and alert other posters the offending poster has been warned and comments of their have been removed.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 16:45:58 GMT -5
I dunno...BO means body odor. You get one guess what dt stands for --- and I didn't name him when he was born so I can wash my hands of this. I get as many guesses as I want, but since I don't give a shit, I won't guess at all. My point was that using BO, for me, had negative connotations so I didn't use it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 23, 2017 16:51:28 GMT -5
This has come up several times in mod council, and I'm generally supportive of it.
The proposal has been consistently declined due to worries and paranoia about mods selectively editing posts. In particular, some posters have thrown fits when their posts were edited to remove offending content. An all-or-nothing approach avoids that risk.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2017 16:57:52 GMT -5
Agreed. Now substitute "infantile" for "racist" and you know exactly how the other side is feeling. so, you are going to bar a reciprocal response? how is that in ANY WAY fair? i am so glad you guys aren't congress. then again, maybe you are. what do i know? I'm not barring anything. I get the same vote as everyone else. One vote. I'm not on some crusade demanding the right to insult people. I think it's silly. It's silly when I do it. It's silly when you do it. Perhaps a ban will stop me from being insulting and childish. I see your point otherwise, too. Nobody wants to be told they have to behave like an adult - not me and not you. But make no mistake. That's what it is. Acting like an adult - something I fail miserably at a lot of the time. It's not some big stand against tyranny - it's about acting like an adult in a forum where people come to discuss and learn and should be able to do so without have to wade through all that silly stuff.
I did vote quickly. I'm still thinking about it as my vote can be changed at any time. I do see your point. I guess if I decide to vote for the ban it will because of the "well you did it" shit that going on here right how. I would also vote that way because of the auto-correct sort of ban on another term that Democrats found offensive, but still feel free to be insulting themselves. If I decide to vote against it, it will be because I agree with you and the importance of speaking up for our freedoms - regardless of how inconsequential it seems to some. I haven't decided yet whether to stay with how I voted or change it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 17:05:05 GMT -5
This has come up several times in mod council, and I'm generally supportive of it. Please tell me the Mod council is something like this:
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 23, 2017 17:37:02 GMT -5
This has come up several times in mod council, and I'm generally supportive of it. Please tell me the Mod council is something like this: COOL!!! Now I want to be a mod
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 23, 2017 17:52:05 GMT -5
I think the enforced use of proper names would mean that a poster has to work harder (be clever) to come up with insults, put downs, and general ugliness. No one will be able to rely solely on the use of "loaded" sobriquets when they can't think of anything else to say - or just want to immediately set the tone of their post. We'll all have to work harder to be at the top of our posting/communication game! ... which will keep the quality of posting very high and even more entertaining.
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