Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 28, 2016 22:03:05 GMT -5
Submitted for your consideration is www.reparations.me, a website created by Ms. Natasha Marin, "a conceptual artist working across disciplines and media to collaborate with People to create opportunities for meaningful IRL and digital engagement". The purpose of the site is described as follows: What if you actually did something meaningful for someone before the end of the year?
What if a stranger restored your belief in humanity, if only for a moment, by supporting you and allowing you to claim something you need in a material way?
I invite People of Color to ask for what we need to feel better, be happier, be more productive by posting in this space. These may be both material and immaterial requests.
I invite people who identify as White to offer services or contributions to People of Color in need of time, energy, substantive care, and support. In other words, the site is designed to help white people (or more specifically, people who "identify as white") to pay reparations to people of colour for oppression both past and present. Ms. Marin goes on to list some examples of reparations people might offer: POC 1: I need a massage. This week. White Person 1: [posts Groupon with code for redemption]
POC2: I need therapy. I can spend $10 a session. White Person 2: [posts contact information to a therapist who they have made arrangements with.]
POC 3: I need groceries. White Person 3: "I'll get them for you. PM me and I'll send an Amazon Fresh or Safeway delivery. You just pick out what you want. I have a $200 limit."
POC 4: I'm too upset to make dinner. I live in Seattle. White Person 4: "Come over to my house for dinner, bring a friend if you like. PM me and I'll send you the address, or can I order delivery to you? What kind of food do you like?"
POC 5: I need a quiet place to work on _________. White Person 5: "I have an office, spare room, house, that will be unoccupied on the following dates, would you like to use that space? I can send pictures ..."
POC 6: I want to scream and cuss at someone. White Person 6: "I volunteer as tribute. How do we set this up?"
This is not a satirical website (I cannot guarantee it isn't a fraud, although Seattle Weekly vouches for it). It accepts real donations. It has real requests for assistance and offers of assistance posted, as well as "satisfied" requests where a white person was successfully able to pay reparations to a person of colour. It also isn't the only site of its kind (see the SW article). What are people's thoughts here? Well-intentioned and harmless? Humiliating? Pie-in-the-sky? A good way of bringing two sides together? Racist? Would you ever request reparations or offer them on a site like this?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 28, 2016 22:17:52 GMT -5
Since I suddenly identify as a person of color I think it's a great idea! I've got my eye on a 2016 Mustang in case anybody wants to circumvent the website for the sake of expediency . On a more serious note, I think it's pretty tacky. But no worse than some of the redonkulous stuff on gofundme. You don't think it's a good way to do a nice deed for somebody else, especially if you're feeling guilty about white privilege and systemic racism?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 28, 2016 22:18:58 GMT -5
Would I ever donate to a complete stranger for no other reason that they are not white?? Do you even have to ask On a side note - we have so many "special" groups and protected classes now that I don't know who is left to pay all those reparations....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 22:58:34 GMT -5
I can't imagine reparations as a valid concept in this context. Yes, criminal smashes my windshield and steals my laptop (never mind my stupid for leaving it in there, this is hypothetical), perp can make a financial restitution for my financial loss. Reparation for my sense of violation and loss, don't think so. End of day, no one is responsible for my internal angst but me.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 28, 2016 23:04:46 GMT -5
Would I ever donate to a complete stranger for no other reason that they are not white?? Do you even have to ask On a side note - we have so many "special" groups and protected classes now that I don't know who is left to pay all those reparations.... The principle behind donating isn't principally that you're white and the recipient isn't. The principle is that because you're white, you inherently enjoy a privileged position in society that a person of colour doesn't enjoy. By paying reparations you help to offset--and in a sense, rectify--that systemic inequality. A person of colour gets a bit of charity, and you're unburdened of any guilt you'd otherwise feel for doing nothing to combat systemic racism.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 28, 2016 23:07:00 GMT -5
I can't imagine reparations as a valid concept in this context. Yes, criminal smashes my windshield and steals my laptop (never mind my stupid for leaving it in there, this is hypothetical), perp can make a financial restitution for my financial loss. Reparation for my sense of violation and loss, don't think so. End of day, no one is responsible for my internal angst but me. Isn't the attitude of "black people can deal with their own problems; they're not mine" the sine qua non of "white privilege" though?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 28, 2016 23:12:29 GMT -5
You don't think it's a good way to do a nice deed for somebody else, especially if you're feeling guilty about white privilege and systemic racism? I feel comfortable with my current charities. But you do make a compelling argument if that's any consolation. I had to pack my bags for that guilt trip . I'm playing Devil's advocate as best I can. I think it's important that if people think "This is a good idea." or especially if they think "This is a foolish idea.", that they know and can articulate why they think these things. All too often people take a look at unorthodox ideas, quickly come to a conclusion about them, but nevertheless lack a reasoned conception of why they did so.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 28, 2016 23:21:43 GMT -5
Would I ever donate to a complete stranger for no other reason that they are not white?? Do you even have to ask On a side note - we have so many "special" groups and protected classes now that I don't know who is left to pay all those reparations.... The principle behind donating isn't principally that you're white and the recipient isn't. The principle is that because you're white, you inherently enjoy a privileged position in society that a person of colour doesn't enjoy. By paying reparations you help to offset--and in a sense, rectify--that systemic inequality. A person of colour gets a bit of charity, and you're unburdened of any guilt you'd otherwise feel for doing nothing to combat systemic racism. I guess for whoever feels guilty that they are white, this might be a fuzzy way to make themselves feel better. I don't feel any quilt. So, again, to answer OP - nope, wouldn't even consider it. RE: highlighted. I guess a person would first have to agree with that principle before taking the next step.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 28, 2016 23:27:24 GMT -5
I think it's a crock of sh##. But I'll reread in the morning when I'm sober. Anyone want to buy me some Stoli
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 28, 2016 23:28:10 GMT -5
So...am I the wrong kind of person of color? I'm not white, but not black.
First reaction: WTF?!?
Second reaction: My white husband gives my non-white self massages, so our ledgers are balanced.
Third reaction: If you feel the need to expunge guilt you inexplicably feel for being born with the advantage of being white in America, and this is the only way you can do nice things for "People of Color" maybe you should take a few extra minutes to examine why you don't have any close friends "of Color" to talk to about this kind of thing or give extra assistance if you think they need/would accept/want it.
Fourth reaction: I looked at the site. Not bad. Kind of cool, offers to review and critique resumes seem more useful than the "go fund me" idea. Would be cooler if there could be a network of community sites like this without race as a characteristic that determines the role of giver/receiver. Maybe the wanted section of Craigslist, but something smooth looking likes this would be cool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 23:39:50 GMT -5
Are they going to pay me for the meningitis that took my hearing at the age of 6 months? Are they going to pay for the Multiple Sclerosis that my husband is afflicted with? Ok, they do pay for the SSDI through their taxes but they sure as shit don't pay for the A/C I have to have because he has problems without it. They also aren't paying for renovations I need done to my house in order to get him into the house and into the bathroom. if they want to come pick his runty white ass up off the floor after he falls off the tub or toilet because he has lost use of his legs, great, saves me the hassle because he's a real prick when it happens. Otherwise, kiss my fat white ass. My family didn't own slaves so I have nothing to apologize for. His family has only been here for 2 generations, on both side,s so he doesn't have a part in it either. And they're all such dumbasses they wouldn't know what to do with them anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 23:41:37 GMT -5
I think it's a crock of sh##. But I'll reread in the morning when I'm sober. Anyone want to buy me some Stoli Would you accept Smirnoff? That's what I'm sucking down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 23:44:11 GMT -5
Since I suddenly identify as a person of color I think it's a great idea! I've got my eye on a 2016 Mustang in case anybody wants to circumvent the website for the sake of expediency . On a more serious note, I think it's pretty tacky. But no worse than some of the redonkulous stuff on gofundme. You don't think it's a good way to do a nice deed for somebody else, especially if you're feeling guilty about white privilege and systemic racism? [br NOPE!!!!!
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Jul 28, 2016 23:49:37 GMT -5
The purpose of the site is described as follows: What if you actually did something meaningful for someone before the end of the year? ..... Would you ever request reparations or offer them on a site like this? I thought it was a joke but then noticed it is apparently for real so here's my response: I carry extra Nature Valley bars to hand out to homeless when they ask for money, so far appreciated. I run Wardrobe for Opportunity drives, also appreciated. FWIW: I don't care how much melanin they have I would NEVER participate on a site like that and I have nothing to feel guilty about. My family wasn't here until 20th century and we didn't own slaves in the Ukraine. Blacks, American Indians, Jews, Hispanics, Asians, disabled, LGBT all experienced discrimination. So who's left?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 29, 2016 0:07:20 GMT -5
The purpose of the site is described as follows: What if you actually did something meaningful for someone before the end of the year? ..... Would you ever request reparations or offer them on a site like this? I thought it was a joke but then noticed it is apparently for real so here's my response: I carry extra Nature Valley bars to hand out to homeless when they ask for money, so far appreciated. I run Wardrobe for Opportunity drives, also appreciated. FWIW: I don't care how much melanin they have I would NEVER participate on a site like that and I have nothing to feel guilty about. My family wasn't here until 20th century and we didn't own slaves in the Ukraine. Blacks, American Indians, Jews, Hispanics, Asians, disabled, LGBT all experienced discrimination. So who's left? The Irish -- both here and the Catholics at home in Ireland. ;-) And short people. And left-handed people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 0:15:03 GMT -5
I thought it was a joke but then noticed it is apparently for real so here's my response: I carry extra Nature Valley bars to hand out to homeless when they ask for money, so far appreciated. I run Wardrobe for Opportunity drives, also appreciated. FWIW: I don't care how much melanin they have I would NEVER participate on a site like that and I have nothing to feel guilty about. My family wasn't here until 20th century and we didn't own slaves in the Ukraine. Blacks, American Indians, Jews, Hispanics, Asians, disabled, LGBT all experienced discrimination. So who's left? The Irish -- both here and the Catholics at home in Ireland. ;-) And short people. And left-handed people. To hell with the Irish! (DH's paternal side). I could get reparations for being a deaf lefty from Nowheresville Northern New Hampshire? ALL RIGHT!!!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 29, 2016 1:56:07 GMT -5
Oh, hell no! Most of the black people I know have more money than I do, and I should pay for their massages? I don't think so. Furthermore, my forebears used to run amok, pillaging and burning down Jewish villages, a la Fiddler on the Roof. I don't feel guilty about that, either. So...nyet.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 5:21:45 GMT -5
Virgil you knew what the answer was before you even posted this ridiculousness. Of course everyone would say no. It fits nicely with the "if it doesn't directly affect ME, so I don't care" mentality that is prevalent these days. Oh what? More violent crimes are done by blacks? Well "those people" better get themselves in line then, you know, even though everyone is affected by that. No one wants to be part of the village. We are outraged by atrocities and discrimination (or vehemently deny their existence), yet sit comfortably behind our keyboards knowing that it's not going to happen to us so we're safe. I'm sorry, I guess I'm not really safe from it. But that's MY problem to deal with apparently. The system is fine, so I must be doing something wrong if I face problems.
As a black woman, I don't want reparations because that would just create more white anger...and it's pointless. What I do want is: 1) for black peoole to be on equal footing with white people without having to go way above and beyond to prove themselves. 2) some type of slavey museum for ALL slaves in America. We need one repository of all this knowledge. Would also be nice to have all the records there so maybe people can find some very distant relatives and what boat they came on. Or when their famiky bought their first slave.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 29, 2016 7:00:16 GMT -5
I had a big long post all typed up last night.
I really don't have the capacity to let something like this knot my knickers because requests are not packaged in a YM approved way.
For basics, there's really little difference for me if some asks for a meal/clothing through website, through a community center, social worker at school, or church. We just got done donating clothes and school supplies (a grocery bag and a tall kitchen garbage bag) to the the neighborhood school's new family resource center. Our neighborhood school is 19% white and the poverty rate is 70%. So chances are a poor minority kid and their family will use our stuff.
Last summer, we took the kids to the Henry Ford Museum. I was humbled, and sad, when we sat down where Rosa Parks did and told them, yup., we still don't have this racial disparity stuff figured out yet. But, racial segregation is alive and well in my city and my state. It's something they are going to need to be aware of.
As of white privilege, I think it's alive and well. My kids are proof. They are monetarily worth far more than they should be. They didn't EARN their money through hard work, especially given their age (you don't see 10 and 8 yo's holding down 50K jobs these days). They received the money because of luck. They are third generation of people getting lucky when picking partners to procreate with.
If my son was born black, he'd have a 50% of graduating high school. In my nice, insulated educated city. Only in the last two years has the school district done something to really acknowledge that a 50% black male graduation rate isn't all that great, especially since white males have an 80%+ graduation rate. These numbers have been this bad for at least two decades now.
And as for the massage, the meals, etc. Leading a life with no emotional intimacy is really hard. It sucks. It sucks knowing that you are *alone* in this world. Fortunately, I don't have to feel like that anymore. But, when I had no one that was standing in my corner, of course I sought emotional comfort from where ever I could, which was through my teaching clients.
And, frankly, given the choice, I'd rather someone ask for some companionship over the web over getting high.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 29, 2016 7:20:20 GMT -5
Tacky and stupid, I wouldn't donate or request anything.
There are many more worthy causes for my money/time.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 29, 2016 7:31:59 GMT -5
I feel comfortable with my current charities. But you do make a compelling argument if that's any consolation. I had to pack my bags for that guilt trip . I'm playing Devil's advocate as best I can. I think it's important that if people think "This is a good idea." or especially if they think "This is a foolish idea.", that they know and can articulate why they think these things. All too often people take a look at unorthodox ideas, quickly come to a conclusion about them, but nevertheless lack a reasoned conception of why they did so. It's not rocket science. I just don't feel guilt for being white nor any feel I have any responsibility for "institutional racism" wheather that's real or imagined. I'm only responsible for my own words and action. And I don't feel I've personally wronged any minorites.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 7:37:17 GMT -5
The fact that you put that phrase in quotes tells me all I need to know about your lack of guilt.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 29, 2016 7:56:38 GMT -5
Virgil you knew what the answer was before you even posted this ridiculousness. Of course everyone would say no. It fits nicely with the "if it doesn't directly affect ME, so I don't care" mentality that is prevalent these days. Oh what? More violent crimes are done by blacks? Well "those people" better get themselves in line then, you know, even though everyone is affected by that. No one wants to be part of the village. We are outraged by atrocities and discrimination (or vehemently deny their existence), yet sit comfortably behind our keyboards knowing that it's not going to happen to us so we're safe. I'm sorry, I guess I'm not really safe from it. But that's MY problem to deal with apparently. The system is fine, so I must be doing something wrong if I face problems. As a black woman, I don't want reparations because that would just create more white anger...and it's pointless. What I do want is: 1) for black peoole to be on equal footing with white people without having to go way above and beyond to prove themselves. 2) some type of slavey museum for ALL slaves in America. We need one repository of all this knowledge. Would also be nice to have all the records there so maybe people can find some very distant relatives and what boat they came on. Or when their famiky bought their first slave. The idea that I don't want to "help" some stranger get a massage and therefore I must not care about discrimination in general and I must be some kind of shitty person hiding behind my keyboard is not only insulting, it completely cures me of any kind of desire to help. Help out of guilt is demeaning, in my opinion. But hey, if you can get a stranger white person get you a quite place to work bc.....well, bc they are white - more power to you. And one more thing - I think this kind of idea takes attention away from a real problem, but again, but again - if you are too upset to make dinner, we should all send you food, bc of course, your upsetness today is a direct result of someone being a slave a "few" years ago.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 8:00:38 GMT -5
Virgil you knew what the answer was before you even posted this ridiculousness. Of course everyone would say no. It fits nicely with the "if it doesn't directly affect ME, so I don't care" mentality that is prevalent these days. Oh what? More violent crimes are done by blacks? Well "those people" better get themselves in line then, you know, even though everyone is affected by that. No one wants to be part of the village. We are outraged by atrocities and discrimination (or vehemently deny their existence), yet sit comfortably behind our keyboards knowing that it's not going to happen to us so we're safe. I'm sorry, I guess I'm not really safe from it. But that's MY problem to deal with apparently. The system is fine, so I must be doing something wrong if I face problems. As a black woman, I don't want reparations because that would just create more white anger...and it's pointless. What I do want is: 1) for black peoole to be on equal footing with white people without having to go way above and beyond to prove themselves. 2) some type of slavey museum for ALL slaves in America. We need one repository of all this knowledge. Would also be nice to have all the records there so maybe people can find some very distant relatives and what boat they came on. Or when their famiky bought their first slave. The idea that I don't want to "help" some stranger get a massage and therefore I must not care about discrimination in general and I must be some kind of shitty person hiding behind my keyboard is not only insulting, it completely cures me of any kind of desire to help. Help out of guilt is demeaning, in my opinion. But hey, if you can get a stranger white person get you a quite place to work bc.....well, bc they are white - more power to you. And one more thing - I think this kind of idea takes attention away from a real problem, but again, but again - if you are too upset to make dinner, we should all send you food, bc of course, your upsetness today is a direct result of someone being a slave a "few" years ago. WHOOSH!!!!!!! point completely missed.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 29, 2016 8:34:02 GMT -5
I don't think you can possibly do reparations generations removed, when all the wronged and wrong-doers and their children are dead and buried. What you can do, is address the wrongs occurring right now--innocent citizens being gunned down by police who never receive any consequences for their mistakes. Police officers choose their profession with full knowledge and acceptance of the risks involved, while innocent civilians who happen to have darker skin have no choice in the matter. There needs to be a complete attitude shift in this country in regards to the purpose of policing. The founders of this country were apparently very concerned with those in powerful positions misusing and oppressing the less powerful. They made it easier for criminals to get away for the sake of not harming any innocent people. The recent shift has been to the complete opposite side of this divide. We're supposed to just accept some collateral damage for the purpose of law and order.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 29, 2016 8:34:29 GMT -5
MJ2.0 - please explain then.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 29, 2016 8:43:16 GMT -5
MJ2.0 - please explain then. Lizard Queen pretty much nailed it. My problem isn't that I want reparations. In fact, I made it clear in my post that I didn't. What we NEED is to acknowledge that we still have work to do regarding racial disparity and to put an honest effort toward doing away with it. All of us. This isn't a "black folks" problem - it is EVERYONE'S problem. THAT was my point.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 29, 2016 8:49:07 GMT -5
The fact that you put that phrase in quotes tells me all I need to know about your lack of guilt. I'm honestly confused as to what I am supposed to feel guilty about. I grew up very poor so I certainly didn't benefit from "white privilege". I worked hard for everything I had. I don't feel guilty about any of it. If anything, we should ALL feel guilty that we were born in this great country where if you work your ass off you can make something of yourself, even if you were born poor, white trash. But for the lottery we could have been born in some hell hole, third world country. So maybe we all need to send guilt money to those countries.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 29, 2016 8:50:13 GMT -5
Personally, my forebears killed American Indians and stole their land (and were killed in return, btw) so unless they are included, I have no intra-generational guilt there, thank you. Way back when we may have killed some Frenchmen, but it is more likely that we were killed by English royals getting our serf-asses with their program. It's complicated. Exactly.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 29, 2016 8:54:40 GMT -5
MJ2.0 - please explain then. Lizard Queen pretty much nailed it. My problem isn't that I want reparations. In fact, I made it clear in my post that I didn't. What w e NEED is to acknowledge that we still have work to do regarding racial disparity and to put an honest effort toward doing away with it. All of us. This isn't a "black folks" problem - it is EVERYONE'S problem. THAT was my point.I agree. But your first post didn't get that point across, at least to me. It sounded like you think that people ignore it bc it doesn't effect them. I disagree. I think many people take it very seriously even if it doesn't directly effect them. And may be you personally don't want reparations, but evidently there are plenty of people who do.
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