happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 19, 2016 11:26:04 GMT -5
Twenty one words in a row the same as Michelle Obama's speech. Yes it was plagiarized. That was only the beginning of Trumps problem. His campaign handled the fact poorly trying to say it was common words and Melania wrote it. Then no she didn't write it. Looks like Trump has surrounded himself with incompetent liars like himself. If they had just admitted one of their speechwriters 'borrowed' from Michelle's speech this wouldn't be the issue that it's become. Now the issue is that they got caught red handed and won't admit it.
I think the deny and deflect part comes directly from Trump. It's always been his MO when caught in a lie. Now, they are somehow blaming Hillary for the whole thing - like this is something she trumped up to make Melania look bad - when in fact, Hillary hasn't said or done anything about it at all. She's wisely stayed in the background with her mouth shut letting the shit fall where it will.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-campaign-denies-plagiarism-in-melanias-speech-blames-reaction-on-clinton/ar-BBuvs9D?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 19, 2016 11:31:07 GMT -5
I've seen the list of similarities between the speeches. "Plagiarism" is too strong a word for it.
Plagiarism in academia means copying paragraphs or lengthy sentences (often with uncommon character) verbatim. Using fragments and elements from an existing document and modifying their wording is permissible. That's what I saw in all but one example that politico.com provided.
It's an embarrassment to be sure, but it doesn't aspire to plagiarism. I'd call it "borrowing tropes from the wrong place".
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 19, 2016 11:31:50 GMT -5
I've seen the list of similarities between the speeches. "Plagiarism" is too strong a word for it.
BS
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jul 19, 2016 11:41:44 GMT -5
BS. It was a whole paragraph word for word.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 19, 2016 11:48:44 GMT -5
Obama: Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values... Trump: My parents impressed on me the values... Modified sentence fragment. Not plagiarism. Obama: ...like: you work hard for what you want in life... Trump: ...that you work hard for what you want in life. Use of common idiom "work hard for what you want in life". Not plagiarism. Obama: ...that your word is your bond, that you do what you say you’re gonna do... Trump: ...that your word is your bond, and you do what you say... Use of common idiom "your word is your bond". Rest of the sentence is a modified fragment. Not plagiarism. Obama: ...that you treat people with dignity and respect... Trump: ...that you treat people with respect... Modified sentence fragment. Not plagiarism. Obama: ...because we want our children and all children in this nation to know... Trump: ...because we want our children in this nation to know... This one might qualify. Obama: ...the only limits on the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams... Trump: ...that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams... This one might qualify. Obama: ...and your willingness to work hard for them. Trump: ...and your willingness to work for them. Modified sentence fragment. Not plagiarism. Hence, "because we want our children in this nation to know" and "the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams" might qualify. Everything else: not a chance. ETA: If all of the above excerpts occur in a single paragraph, in the same order, then disregard.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 19, 2016 11:49:39 GMT -5
BS. It was a whole paragraph word for word. You'll have to show me where, then, because the excerpts above are the only passages being called into question (according to the Gawker link posted earlier in this thread). Do they all occur in the same paragraph?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 19, 2016 11:50:34 GMT -5
Meh, so what if part of her speech was plagiarized. Is it not conceivable that her parents instilled in her that she needs to work hard for what she wants in life? To me it is something all good parents instill in their children.
I am aware that it may have been plagiarized, but count me as someone who thinks it is not really a big deal. I still plan to vote democrat (as in there is no way in hell I will vote for Donald, and a slim chance I would vote for a Republican anyways).
I thought Melania did a very good job speaking last night. She may not have a degree but don't they say she speaks about 5 languages? My DH thought her accent was hard to understand and that her English was not so good - but I had no problem understanding her.
As far as I am concerned Hillary and Michelle have equivalent educations - I would have a hard time calling one more educated than the other. Isn't a JD equivalent to a Doctorate? Not dissing Laura Bush's Masters at all, but it is not = to a JD right?
I speak five languages and my mother spoke eight. Doesn't mean either of us would make a great First Lady.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 19, 2016 11:56:10 GMT -5
Did Michelle Obama write that speech herself or did she have s speechwriter? Doesn't matter either way with regards to the plagiarism, to my mind. Just curiosity on my part.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 19, 2016 12:06:51 GMT -5
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 19, 2016 12:12:11 GMT -5
Why doesn't it bother me that some Slovenian arm candy borrowed from Michelle Obama after all the wretched spew from her husband has passed muster with the repo base?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 19, 2016 12:19:37 GMT -5
Yeah. OK. I didn't realize all the excerpts came from the same paragraph. That would be ruled plagiarism in a university setting. There's enough there.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 19, 2016 12:23:15 GMT -5
Why doesn't it bother me that some Slovenian arm candy borrowed from Michelle Obama after all the wretched spew from her husband has passed muster with the repo base? You are suffering from Trump outrage exhaustion. The volume of stuff to be bothered by is so much, you need a break.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 19, 2016 12:25:29 GMT -5
Lol! She said she wrote it all by herself. Hey, I thought Trump wasn't allowed to use "We are the Champions". The band didn't want him using their music. he doesn't give a fuck. he has overpriced lawyers to settle out of court for him. So much for the "respect" in Melanoma's speech. "I don't care that the band doesn't want us using their music. I'm rich, so fvck you!"
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 19, 2016 12:31:18 GMT -5
As far as I am concerned Hillary and Michelle have equivalent educations - I would have a hard time calling one more educated than the other. Isn't a JD equivalent to a Doctorate? Not dissing Laura Bush's Masters at all, but it is not = to a JD right? a JD is a doctorate, it's a Juris Doctor - link
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 19, 2016 12:46:05 GMT -5
It appears the 'facts' indicate that as far as first ladies go, the highest levels of education were achieved by Michelle and Hillary.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 19, 2016 12:48:33 GMT -5
Pity her husband can barely speak one. "I know words. I have the best words."
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 19, 2016 12:51:01 GMT -5
... I don't know that there is a "most educated 1st lady in history"... but if there is Ms. Obama ain't it. You forgot to add the "BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!" you normally do when you post things like this.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 19, 2016 12:57:12 GMT -5
Maybe so, but the "facts" also indicate that Melania comes closest of any of them to practicing the Oldest Profession. Ouch!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 19, 2016 13:00:46 GMT -5
Intelligence is overrated.
In hiring, in politics, in business.
I'll take a man of average intelligence and good character over a brilliant man of questionable character any day of the week, as a boss, as a friend, or as an employee.
Perhaps Ms. Trump is a "dumb bunny" as some are claiming. I don't know. Either way, her intelligence isn't a measure of her character or her potential to do good if Mr. Trump is elected to the White House.
If she's a plagiarist, that's unfortunate. That's a blight on her character.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 19, 2016 13:01:56 GMT -5
Maybe so, but the "facts" also indicate that Melania comes closest of any of them to practicing the Oldest Profession.
Plagiarist?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 19, 2016 13:07:35 GMT -5
Intelligence is overrated. In hiring, in politics, in business. I'll take a man of average intelligence and good character over a brilliant man of questionable character any day of the week, as a boss, as a friend, or as an employee. Perhaps Ms. Trump is a "dumb bunny" as some are claiming. I don't know. Either way, her intelligence isn't a measure of her character or her potential to do good if Mr. Trump is elected to the White House.If she's a plagiarist, that's unfortunate. That's a blight on her character. So, you're OK with her posing naked everywhere?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jul 19, 2016 13:11:51 GMT -5
Had to google worlds oldest profession thinking I knew it.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 19, 2016 13:12:12 GMT -5
RNC prayer: Please, Dear Lord, keep this man away from our convention for the third time in a row. Thank You Jesus.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 19, 2016 13:12:36 GMT -5
Intelligence is overrated. In hiring, in politics, in business. I'll take a man of average intelligence and good character over a brilliant man of questionable character any day of the week, as a boss, as a friend, or as an employee. Perhaps Ms. Trump is a "dumb bunny" as some are claiming. I don't know. Either way, her intelligence isn't a measure of her character or her potential to do good if Mr. Trump is elected to the White House.If she's a plagiarist, that's unfortunate. That's a blight on her character. So, you're OK with her posing naked everywhere? Of course not. But the discussion is about how educated and intelligent various First Ladies are/were. I'm saying it doesn't matter.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 19, 2016 13:13:27 GMT -5
I thought the discussion was about level of education only.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 19, 2016 13:20:42 GMT -5
I thought the discussion was about level of education only. Whatever. Your calling her "Slovenian arm candy borrowed from Michelle Obama" (in a rather amusing dangling participle) to me indicates you don't think she's too bright. If I'm wrong, let me know.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 19, 2016 13:24:27 GMT -5
Maybe so, but the "facts" also indicate that Melania comes closest of any of them to practicing the Oldest Profession. I'm not a Melania fan, but seems too harsh and not true to my knowledge. I just read an article on her roots and how fashion got her out of Slovenia and onto Milan and eventually NYC.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 19, 2016 13:26:21 GMT -5
I thought the discussion was about level of education only. Whatever. Your calling her "Slovenian arm candy borrowed from Michelle Obama" (in a rather amusing dangling participle) to me indicates you don't think she's too bright. If I'm wrong, let me know. I don't know what he meant, but let's be real, Donald married her for her looks and youth, not her intelligence. If he got some of that in the bargain I'm sure he's happy, but appearances are more important to him than substance IMO.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 19, 2016 13:29:16 GMT -5
I thought the discussion was about level of education only. Whatever. Your calling her "Slovenian arm candy borrowed from Michelle Obama" (in a rather amusing dangling participle) to me indicates you don't think she's too bright. If I'm wrong, let me know. Well, we do know she's quite an accomplished liar. She claims to have a degree, when in fact, she dropped out of school after repeated failures. www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/melania-trump-college-claims_us_578dd95ce4b0c53d5cfac0dc
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 19, 2016 13:32:36 GMT -5
Maybe so, but the "facts" also indicate that Melania comes closest of any of them to practicing the Oldest Profession. I'm not a Melania fan, but seems too harsh and not true to my knowledge. I just read an article on her roots and how fashion got her out of Slovenia and onto Milan and eventually NYC. Oh, please. She married that orange Sack O Crap for his money. Do you really think she would have married him if he was a plumber or landscaper? When you put out for money, you're in the oldest profession.
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