wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Jul 15, 2016 16:41:20 GMT -5
Just breaking, it appears there is an ongoing coup by the Turkish Military against the Erdogan government.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 15, 2016 17:08:02 GMT -5
There's nothing "appears" about it. Ergodan is out. The military is in. Ergodan is seeking asylum in Germany. He was out of the country when the coup happened (on vacation). Goodbye, NATO "ally" nation.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 15, 2016 17:14:53 GMT -5
Erdogan has called people out on to the streets...which means there is potential for a bloodbath. Oh Dear
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 15, 2016 17:22:56 GMT -5
People should risk life and limb to battle a military takeover from their democratically elected government.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 15, 2016 17:23:01 GMT -5
Wow. I don't know what to think except this is not good. I hope most of Turkey can stay safe and sanity return somehow.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 15, 2016 17:24:35 GMT -5
... Goodbye, NATO "ally" nation. Will Canada care it is military dictatorship? I doubt the US will in a meaningful way.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 15, 2016 17:26:18 GMT -5
There's nothing "appears" about it. Ergodan is out. The military is in. ... Good example of why I don't support using military to enforce border security. They can get a little full of themselves.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 15, 2016 17:27:47 GMT -5
I'm currently reading book #? in Barbara Nadel's Ikmen series and it seems as if there is a history of this in Turkey.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 15, 2016 17:35:33 GMT -5
Supposed to be supporters of Fethullah Gulen. Moderate but he is not a secularist. People on those bridges are getting shot at... Not a fan of Erdogan but this is very sad for Turkey.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Jul 15, 2016 17:47:08 GMT -5
Interesting to note that Turkey has had several military coups. The constitution allows the military to step in when needed. Kemal Ataturk who founded the modern Turkish state admonished the military to stay out of politics but he also charged the military with guarding the constitution.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 15, 2016 18:03:50 GMT -5
What I am listening to says Erdogan has been dismantling some democratic institutions such as freedom of the press and has been leaning the country in an Islamic direction. Perhaps a more moderate hand will prevail?
I am hoping. I am wondering what's in the stars or perhaps the air/water that is making recent days so interesting in less than pleasant ways.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 15, 2016 19:27:56 GMT -5
... Goodbye, NATO "ally" nation. Will Canada care it is military dictatorship? I doubt the US will in a meaningful way. I doubt it. Turkey is supposed to be that "moderate" Muslim nation that helps the west deal with the not-so-moderate Muslim nations. The problem is that Ergodan was/is an outright dictator. Rigged elections, marginalizing the Kurds (when he isn't busy wiping them out), throwing anybody who whispered dissent into prison. Europe is going to be the most worried about this. They had "agreements" with Ergodan: cash for no more refugees. He was honouring those agreements. The new government, assuming it holds, might not. I don't know quite enough about Turkey to say whether the new state will be better or worse than the old one. Worst case scenario is that the nation devolves into all-out civil war, which is going to be like a screwdriver to the gut for NATO and Europe. Best case is the coup is over quickly and whoever holds power isn't as bad as Ergodan. I'm also wondering if the CIA might not be pulling some strings here, trying to set up a more pro-NATO government. They've been meddling in Turkish politics for years. If they are involved, given their success record at engineering coups with stable, pro-western governments post-coup, Turkey's goose is cooked.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 15, 2016 19:36:00 GMT -5
This is not your surgical overnight coup. Reports of helicopters being shot down by F-16s, armies of police battling army officers, tanks firing, ...
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Jul 15, 2016 22:46:13 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 16, 2016 4:05:57 GMT -5
That I can't say, although now that the rebellion has been crushed and the coup is effectively over, it's hard to imagine this turning out any better for Pres. Ergodan. He's going to use this as an excuse to liquidate as many people as he can. It's also worth noting that not a single group in Turkey or the world--not the military, nor any of the opposition political parties--failed to condemn the coup attempt. If this is a true "false flag" attack and Ergodan is behind it... wow. The man is crazy like a fox.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 16, 2016 17:03:10 GMT -5
So Erdogan has arrested 2700 judges......? Why judges?
Part of his problem has been that he has been too authoritarian. Getting more authoritarian isnt going to help. Young Turks want a Western way of life not a dictatorship or a theocracy. They want Secularism...as Ataturk set out for them.
Got to respect their democracy and whatever we think Erdogan has been elected. I just hope he doesn't go on a vengeful killing spree.
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 16, 2016 17:08:41 GMT -5
So Erdogan has arrested 2700 judges......? Why judges? Part of his problem has been that he has been too authoritarian. Getting more authoritarian isnt going to help. Young Turks want a Western way of life not a dictatorship or a theocracy. They want Secularism...as Ataturk set out for them. Got to respect their democracy and whatever we think Erdogan has been elected. I just hope he doesn't go on a vengeful killing spree. SB- "Authorities also began a major crackdown in the judiciary over suspected links to U.S.-based cleric Fethullah Gulen, removing from their posts and ordering the detention of nearly 3,000 prosecutors and judges, including from top courts." www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkish-authorities-round-up-plotters-death-toll-said-to-be-265/ar-BBuobG4?li=BBnb7Kz
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Jul 17, 2016 8:22:22 GMT -5
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 17, 2016 9:00:23 GMT -5
People should risk life and limb to battle a military takeover from their democratically elected government. Wonder how many in US would turn out if it happened here. Not counting the looters. I get the impression folks are gonna hide out with their rice, beans etc and hope someone else steps up or it just blows over and they can get on with their lives. ETA the quote may have been said with sarcaism. Not sure but my post still stands since I doubt the loyalty of citizens this day and age
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 17, 2016 9:23:14 GMT -5
People should risk life and limb to battle a military takeover from their democratically elected government. Wonder how many in US would turn out if it happened here. Not counting the looters. I get the impression folks are gonna hide out with their rice, beans etc and hope someone else steps up or it just blows over and they can get on with their lives. ETA the quote may have been said with sarcaism. Not sure but my post still stands since I doubt the loyalty of citizens this day and age Not sarcasm. I think it is when, not if it happens here. The question in this country will be if it is left or right which overrides or suspends elections. Will the rice and beans crowd be hiding or applauding?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 17, 2016 9:34:17 GMT -5
I've wondered why there's been no assassination attempts on obama or others
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 17, 2016 9:42:40 GMT -5
I've wondered why there's been no assassination attempts on obama or others If no one has taken out that socialist Muslim from Kenya, there is little chance all those 2nd Amendment well regulated militia members are going to save our republic. (This one is )
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jul 18, 2016 3:36:35 GMT -5
That I can't say, although now that the rebellion has been crushed and the coup is effectively over, it's hard to imagine this turning out any better for Pres. Ergodan. He's going to use this as an excuse to liquidate as many people as he can. It's also worth noting that not a single group in Turkey or the world--not the military, nor any of the opposition political parties--failed to condemn the coup attempt. If this is a true "false flag" attack and Ergodan is behind it... wow. The man is crazy like a fox. False flag? How about gift from God? Coup Was ‘Gift From God’ for Erdogan Planning a New TurkeyEdit: Erdorgan's past is dicey at best. Good point VtL
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 18, 2016 7:30:44 GMT -5
That I can't say, although now that the rebellion has been crushed and the coup is effectively over, it's hard to imagine this turning out any better for Pres. Ergodan. He's going to use this as an excuse to liquidate as many people as he can. It's also worth noting that not a single group in Turkey or the world--not the military, nor any of the opposition political parties--failed to condemn the coup attempt. If this is a true "false flag" attack and Ergodan is behind it... wow. The man is crazy like a fox. False flag? How about gift from God? Coup Was ‘Gift From God’ for Erdogan Planning a New TurkeyEdit: Erdorgan's past is dicey at best. Good point VtL He's already in the process of purging over 1,000... judges.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 18, 2016 11:38:05 GMT -5
financial markets are not taking this seriously. gold is down and the dow is up this morning.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 18, 2016 16:17:46 GMT -5
financial markets are not taking this seriously. gold is down and the dow is up this morning. The "markets" are world central banks. www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-18/erdogan-purges-8000-cops-europe-voices-concern-coup-was-staged-prepared-arrest-listsOvernight Turkish president Erdogan's counter-coup witch hunt continued, when thousands of police officers were suspended on Monday, widening a systemic purge of Erdogan's enemies first in the armed forces and then judiciary after a failed military coup, now focusing on the interior police force, and raising concern among European allies that it was abandoning the rule of law. Turkey's state-run news agency says the nation has detained or suspended 20,000 personnel across the country, following Friday's foiled coup attempt.
Anadolu Agency says a total of 8,777 employees attached to the ministry were dismissed, including 30 governors, 52 civil service inspectors and 16 legal advisers
Thirty regional governors and more than 50 high-ranking civil servants have also been dismissed, CNN Turk said. Thousands of members of the armed forces, from foot soldiers to commanders, were rounded up on Sunday, some shown in photographs stripped to their underpants and handcuffed on the floors of police buses and a sports hall. Several thousand prosecutors and judges have also been removed.
Bloomberg summarizes as follows: more than than 7,500, including more than 6,000 soldiers from various ranks detained by police, Turkish PM Binali Yildirim says in televised remarks. Those detained include 755 judges and prosecutors, 650 civilians and 100 police officers. Separately, about 9,000 from the Interior Ministry, 3,00 judges and prosecutors and 1,500 staff members of Finance Ministry have been removed from duty.
In total, approximately 20,000 political opponents "purged" just days after the conclusion of the failed coup.
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jul 18, 2016 16:18:11 GMT -5
He's already in the process of purging over 1,000... judges. Part of a larger swath of almost 10k now. He apparently also wants to reinstate the death penalty; surprised? Erdogan's previously mentioned past: Further credit to the story can be found in this excerpt(from linked article above) It's credible because: Most Islamic State fighters in Afghanistan are from Pakistan
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 18, 2016 16:23:44 GMT -5
financial markets are not taking this seriously. gold is down and the dow is up this morning. The markets value stability of course. If Erdogan consolidates his power and clamps down on the opposition it may have some negative repercussions for Turkish democracy, but it is just fine for the markets- at least in the short term.
that was not exactly my point, though i agree with that, as well. what i meant was that this is viewed as a local problem. if it were viewed as a contagion, it would rattle the markets- and frankly, that is what i expected. but what i see here is that this is not viewed as a big problem for the region: www.cnbc.com/world-markets-heat-map/www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.htmledit: i guess what i mean is that the business community doesn't view this as a regional problem.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 18, 2016 16:38:00 GMT -5
He's already in the process of purging over 1,000... judges. Part of a larger swath of almost 10k now. He apparently also wants to reinstate the death penalty; surprised? Erdogan's previously mentioned past: Further credit to the story can be found in this excerpt(from linked article above) It's credible because: Most Islamic State fighters in Afghanistan are from PakistanWhere's the video?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 18, 2016 16:45:53 GMT -5
Reinstate the death penalty? What a barborous fascist swine!
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