NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 7, 2016 15:55:17 GMT -5
As you probably have read there is this (ex) Stanford student who was previoulsy ion the swiim team and who ws convicted of raping an unconsious woman. He got off with a jail sentence of just six months but will have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life (boohoo...). Now I read that he will appeal his sentence. So my question is as follows: will an appeals court review his sentence only to see whether the punishment was too severe or would an appeal open up the possibility of a heavier sentence ( ). If an appeal only offers the possibility of a lighter sentence what, aside from money to pay for this, would stop anyone from appealing any sentence ever?
I am just trying to understand the process here.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 7, 2016 16:45:18 GMT -5
There are plenty of really galling parts to his case, including but not limited to: - his continued denial that he did anything wrong - that it was consensual and the unconscious woman agreed to have sex in the dirt behind the dumpster... - that he wants to educate other people about how one bad decision can ruin a life (implying it is his life that has been ruined and the bad decision was drinking too much.) Along those lines, he wants to start a campaign to warn young people about the dangers of drinking and promiscuity. Yes, promiscuity - not rape. As if this was a pair of tipsy lovebirds who are now having a misunderstanding instead of him sexually assaulting an unconscious woman who he didn't know. - his father writing a letter to the judge requesting leniency in sentencing because prison is too high a price to pay for "20 minutes of action". Not a misquote. The father labeled this not as rape or assault, but "action". - the fact that the majority of the media reports regarding the story initially focused on the rapist's incredible swimming talent. A paraphrase of one of the articles goes something like "two strangers rescued an unconscious woman who was being sexually assaulted behind a dumpster. The woman was naked and found to be severely injured with dirt ground into her genitals and the accused rapist thrusting on top of her lifeless body. Upon being discovered, the alleged attacker ran and was captured a short time later. The alleged attacker is a star athlete training for the Olympics. He's known for being a good student on top of his training. His record swim times included X, Y, and Z in the freestyle." No joke. They actually listed his swim times.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 7, 2016 16:54:08 GMT -5
The appellate court could potentially vacate the sentence and remand for resentencing, but I think the standard is "clear error" (e.g. ignoring mandatory minimums or other guidelines). Doesn't happen often, they generally give quite a bit of deference to the trial court.
Disclaimer -- not a CA attorney.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 7, 2016 16:59:10 GMT -5
So, will he really have to show up for 'prison time' or is the 6 months equivalent to some amount of time he's gotten credit for?
What is he trying to get out of? I'm assuming it's the 'prison time'. I suspect the 'probation' and being on the 'sex offender' register (for the rest of his life) isn't going to really 'ruin' his future life (not any worse than a DUI conviction.) If he manages to stay out of trouble with the law for a few years - when asked about his conviction/name on the register he can admit to a 'youthful indiscretion' and not say much more... he was 18 at the time - yeah, an adult - but still a 'college student' away at college. Society doesn't really seem to hold college kids up to adult standards... it's just a continuation of HS behavior expectations - but without parental supervision. You aren't suppose to act like an adult until you are 30. So I can see future employers letting it slide - he was a kid at the time this happened.
I'm NOT saying this is right...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 7, 2016 16:59:21 GMT -5
... So my question is as follows: will an appeals court review his sentence only to see whether the punishment was too severe or would an appeal open up the possibility of a heavier sentence ( ). If an appeal only offers the possibility of a lighter sentence what, aside from money to pay for this, would stop anyone from appealing any sentence ever?
I am just trying to understand the process here.
So it seems the first question is does an appeal open up the possibility of an appeals court doing anything they want or is a case appealed on specific issues by a specific party to the case. I think that appeals are made on specifics. If the person found guilty wishes to appeal the sentence, then it would be to lessen the sentence. If it is because they feel that the jury saw evidence that should have been excluded, then the appeals court would like a that issue. If the prosecutor feels the sentence was too light, the prosecutor would appeal the sentence to make it longer. This was what happened in the case that lead to the Oregon militia standoff. Why not more appeals of sentences? One factor would be that a lot of cases are plea bargained so the sentence is agreed to before hand. Also there is the unlikelihood of success in most cases.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 7, 2016 17:00:02 GMT -5
I can't even with this darn case. He should be locked up far longer then six months. It's just disgusting.
I don't pity this boy at all. His father is no help at all and it's not surprising he thinks it's "no big deal," and "Oh poor me my life is ruined" and not considering the female...when he has a father that supports him like this.
Not even considering the life time harm he put on this poor girl...
Cut off his ball is my solution and throw him in the slammer for a lot longer then six years. >.> Is that too extreme. The first part maybe but it makes my blood boil...
hs standards...College standards... there should be no standards when it comes to rape culture. There should be no leniency on what age the person that rapes another person. Rape should not be something that is taken lightly or given a pat on the shoulder for...any age. it needs to be taught and shown this is not okay. others will look at the little amount of jail time, or the possibility of not getting jail time and think it's okay...
I'm just sickened.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 7, 2016 17:01:37 GMT -5
Anyone involved with the criminal justice system has the right to appeal any of their rulings anywhere along the way. That's part of the system of checks and balances.
But getting your appeal formatted and heard - - well, that's another matter entirely. That takes time, money and legal expertise - - something that low income folks cannot afford. I know I might get reamed for saying this but, wealthy/privileged persons are the ones who can afford to pay for this; poor people just get to rot in their cells until their time is up.
That's a part of what has so many people up in arms about this case. It is widely seen as a classic case of White Privilege. This family has enough money to try and get an already (in the opinion of some/many) outrageously light sentence ("a slap on the wrist") reduced even further.
But like it or not, if you dig a little deeper into this case you will see that this judge was not acting in a vacuum. He in fact accepted/took under advisement the opinion of the DA and other professionals involved in this case when passing a sentence. The "light sentence" did not come from him or from thin air - it came from all the regular court advisement channels. The judge - like it or not - was following protocol.
Now . . . the father claiming that his son is basically a good boy who is being punished too harshly for "twenty minutes of action"? He's an a$$hole, and his tone-deaf opinions and total failure to help his son stand up and be accountable for his actions are some of the reasons why rape culture is allowed to continue unabated in this country. This boy is not a victim. His VICTIM is a victim.
<<< kittensaver climbs off her soapbox and scampers off to find her flameproof suit >>>
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 7, 2016 18:06:49 GMT -5
Can the result of an appeal for a lighter sentence backfire? IOW, can a new sentence be made where the rapist gets a stiffer sentence than he received?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 7, 2016 18:16:00 GMT -5
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 7, 2016 18:51:40 GMT -5
I remember this case. But at that time that rapist was not contesting the verdict, in this case this "good boy who has never been violent toward anyone" is. And my question really was whether this appeal could backfire on him.
I know that under British law (which is used in Singapore) that is possible. I forgot what the guy who appealed was convicted for, but it was a quite serious crime for which he received 8 years. He appealed because (like in this case) he felt that the punishment did not fit his crime. The appeals court agreed with him, and he ended up with a 20 year sentence...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2016 19:08:30 GMT -5
Can the result of an appeal for a lighter sentence backfire? IOW, can a new sentence be made where the rapist gets a stiffer sentence than he received? No.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 7, 2016 19:09:24 GMT -5
Anyone involved with the criminal justice system has the right to appeal any of their rulings anywhere along the way. That's part of the system of checks and balances.
But getting your appeal formatted and heard - - well, that's another matter entirely. That takes time, money and legal expertise - - something that low income folks cannot afford. I know I might get reamed for saying this but, wealthy/privileged persons are the ones who can afford to pay for this; poor people just get to rot in their cells until their time is up.
That's a part of what has so many people up in arms about this case. It is widely seen as a classic case of White Privilege. This family has enough money to try and get an already (in the opinion of some/many) outrageously light sentence ("a slap on the wrist") reduced even further.
But like it or not, if you dig a little deeper into this case you will see that this judge was not acting in a vacuum. He in fact accepted/took under advisement the opinion of the DA and other professionals involved in this case when passing a sentence. The "light sentence" did not come from him or from thin air - it came from all the regular court advisement channels. The judge - like it or not - was following protocol.
Now . . . the father claiming that his son is basically a good boy who is being punished too harshly for "twenty minutes of action"? He's an a$$hole, and his tone-deaf opinions and total failure to help his son stand up and be accountable for his actions are some of the reasons why rape culture is allowed to continue unabated in this country. This boy is not a victim. His VICTIM is a victim.
<<< kittensaver climbs off her soapbox and scampers off to find her flameproof suit >>>
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 7, 2016 19:15:11 GMT -5
This case makes me sick. I hope all the internet hoopla destroys his life for that "20 minutes of action". For some reason, his mug shot has not been released, but it has now.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jun 7, 2016 19:22:28 GMT -5
Anyone involved with the criminal justice system has the right to appeal any of their rulings anywhere along the way. That's part of the system of checks and balances.
But getting your appeal formatted and heard - - well, that's another matter entirely. That takes time, money and legal expertise - - something that low income folks cannot afford. I know I might get reamed for saying this but, wealthy/privileged persons are the ones who can afford to pay for this; poor people just get to rot in their cells until their time is up.
That's a part of what has so many people up in arms about this case. It is widely seen as a classic case of White Privilege. This family has enough money to try and get an already (in the opinion of some/many) outrageously light sentence ("a slap on the wrist") reduced even further.
But like it or not, if you dig a little deeper into this case you will see that this judge was not acting in a vacuum. He in fact accepted/took under advisement the opinion of the DA and other professionals involved in this case when passing a sentence. The "light sentence" did not come from him or from thin air - it came from all the regular court advisement channels. The judge - like it or not - was following protocol.
Now . . . the father claiming that his son is basically a good boy who is being punished too harshly for "twenty minutes of action"? He's an a$$hole, and his tone-deaf opinions and total failure to help his son stand up and be accountable for his actions are some of the reasons why rape culture is allowed to continue unabated in this country. This boy is not a victim. His VICTIM is a victim.
<<< kittensaver climbs off her soapbox and scampers off to find her flameproof suit >>>
In fact the victim brought this very point up in her statement to the court: if the defendant was a low-income, non-athlete, student attending a community college, would he receive the same sentence??!! No doubt the DA is running for re-election and the father made a significant contribution to his campaign.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 7, 2016 19:41:05 GMT -5
I remember this case. But at that time that rapist was not contesting the verdict, in this case this "good boy who has never been violent toward anyone" is. And my question really was whether this appeal could backfire on him.
I know that under British law (which is used in Singapore) that is possible. I forgot what the guy who appealed was convicted for, but it was a quite serious crime for which he received 8 years. He appealed because (like in this case) he felt that the punishment did not fit his crime. The appeals court agreed with him, and he ended up with a 20 year sentence...
I know the rapist in this case wasn't contesting the sentence. I only posted this case because I think someone had asked about a sentence being increased after an initial sentencing though not contested. The judge in this case caught a lot of heat for his sentencing of the rapist. The judge retired rather than get kicked to the curb..
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 7, 2016 19:45:33 GMT -5
Anyone involved with the criminal justice system has the right to appeal any of their rulings anywhere along the way. That's part of the system of checks and balances.
But getting your appeal formatted and heard - - well, that's another matter entirely. That takes time, money and legal expertise - - something that low income folks cannot afford. I know I might get reamed for saying this but, wealthy/privileged persons are the ones who can afford to pay for this; poor people just get to rot in their cells until their time is up.
That's a part of what has so many people up in arms about this case. It is widely seen as a classic case of White Privilege. This family has enough money to try and get an already (in the opinion of some/many) outrageously light sentence ("a slap on the wrist") reduced even further.
But like it or not, if you dig a little deeper into this case you will see that this judge was not acting in a vacuum. He in fact accepted/took under advisement the opinion of the DA and other professionals involved in this case when passing a sentence. The "light sentence" did not come from him or from thin air - it came from all the regular court advisement channels. The judge - like it or not - was following protocol.
Now . . . the father claiming that his son is basically a good boy who is being punished too harshly for "twenty minutes of action"? He's an a$$hole, and his tone-deaf opinions and total failure to help his son stand up and be accountable for his actions are some of the reasons why rape culture is allowed to continue unabated in this country. This boy is not a victim. His VICTIM is a victim.
<<< kittensaver climbs off her soapbox and scampers off to find her flameproof suit >>>
In fact the victim brought this very point up in her statement to the court: if the defendant was a low-income, non-athlete, student attending a community college, would he receive the same sentence??!! No doubt the DA is running for re-election and the father made a significant contribution to his campaign. The DA went against his own prosecutor? Cuz the prosecutor on the asked for six years. I read it was the recommendation of the probation officer.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 7, 2016 19:48:05 GMT -5
I thought you could appeal the sentence or the whole trial. And if it's the trial, and he's granted a new one, theoretically he could get a worse sentence then the first go round because it's as if the first trial never happened?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 7, 2016 19:57:04 GMT -5
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 7, 2016 20:19:58 GMT -5
I suspect the 'probation' and being on the 'sex offender' register (for the rest of his life) isn't going to really 'ruin' his future life (not any worse than a DUI conviction.) If he manages to stay out of trouble with the law for a few years - when asked about his conviction/name on the register he can admit to a 'youthful indiscretion' and not say much more.... So I can see future employers letting it slide - he was a kid at the time this happened. Not sure I agree this will be the case. Take a look at "the registry". It's detailed. It has information on what the person was convicted of and will show that he was guilty of attempted rape, sexual penetration of an unconscious person and sexual penetration of an intoxicated person. Those are serious charges and most employers will have a tough time ignoring them as a "youthful indiscretion." The registry will also show his (less than flattering) mugshot, not the attractive, smiling yearbook headshot that the media has been publishing. It will not look like a Romeo/Juliet situation, it will look like exactly what it was - a creepy jerk preying on an incapacitated woman. Not only that but any employer that uses a google search - and many of them do - will quickly unearth this story. This will be worse for him than a DUI conviction. As it should be. This will disqualify him from many jobs, regulated professions like being a attorney or CPA, housing rentals, college admissions and federal student loans/grants. It will mean that if he's lucky enough to ever have a family and kids, he won't be able to set foot on or volunteer at his kids' school or coach their teams. As he goes through life, he will have to face it again and again and again as new friends, neighbors, parents of his kids' friends, coworkers, etc. discover this information about him. Not saying it's unfair or at all equivalent to what the victim endured and will continue to face, but being on the sex offender registry is a big deal.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 7, 2016 20:24:34 GMT -5
He deserves more then that in my honest opinion. >.>
He doesn't deserve the chance to have children or a wife. He belongs in jail.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 7, 2016 20:57:03 GMT -5
Just cause I'm feeling funky tonight... What if instead this was a case of a drunken teen driver who hit another car/pedestrian and killed someone (or maimed them?)? It seems in most of the published cases the "white privilege" teens who kill/maim other people don't get prison time. And future employability never seems to come up. Perhaps this strange twist of justice is why the guy will be appealing. www.madd.org/laws/law-overview/Vehicular_Homicide_Overview.pdfThis by no means indicate that I think this guy has received too harsh a punishment. Let's not forget if the two passers bye had not 'seen something and said something' this guy would be walking free and clear and perhaps even proudly sharing the story of his 'special' experience with his friends. While the woman would be left to wonder what happened... I think this is the tip of an iceberg. I bet there are plenty of guys reading/watching this and thanking their lucky stars there was no one around when they had their '20 minutes of action'. I doubt fear of the law will stop this from happening.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jun 7, 2016 21:12:42 GMT -5
Isn't he lucky! White and rich...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 8, 2016 8:11:30 GMT -5
He should have to register and have to live with what he did for the rest of his life. Part of why rape culture continues to exist is because we write these things off as "youthful indiscretions" or "boys will be boys". It needs to be driven thru people's heads that rape is a serious crime and needs to be treated as such. But only if you are white and rich. If you are poor and a minority then you need to be locked away for life.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 8, 2016 9:03:29 GMT -5
Saw a meme on my fb feed today showing a 70 something year old man serving a life sentence for growing three pot plants with Brock Turner and his sentence below.
SMDH
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 8, 2016 9:30:01 GMT -5
Just cause I'm feeling funky tonight... What if instead this was a case of a drunken teen driver who hit another car/pedestrian and killed someone (or maimed them?)? It seems in most of the published cases the "white privilege" teens who kill/maim other people don't get prison time. And future employability never seems to come up. Perhaps this strange twist of justice is why the guy will be appealing. www.madd.org/laws/law-overview/Vehicular_Homicide_Overview.pdfThis by no means indicate that I think this guy has received too harsh a punishment. Let's not forget if the two passers bye had not 'seen something and said something' this guy would be walking free and clear and perhaps even proudly sharing the story of his 'special' experience with his friends. While the woman would be left to wonder what happened... I think this is the tip of an iceberg. I bet there are plenty of guys reading/watching this and thanking their lucky stars there was no one around when they had their '20 minutes of action'. I doubt fear of the law will stop this from happening. I totally agree with tiny's points. Is this worse than vehicular homicide? No way. We are not allowed to blame the victim, but if the victim is so wasted they do not remember it, that is a big problem. I have both daughters and sons, and I give them a similar message. If you put yourself in a bad situation, bad things can happen. If a young man is walking down the street at 2am in a bad part of town with money hanging out of his wallet and gets robbed, we don't say he deserved it, but we say "boy that was stupid of him". So if a girl gets so drunk and gets assaulted, we shouldn't blame her for the crime, but we should say "boy that was stupid of her". I tell all my kids to avoid putting themselves in bad situations, drinking so much that they do stupid things, which would include making one stupid decision like getting behind the wheel when they are not supposed to. Don't do anything stupid, or don't let something stupid happen to you. And BTW I will freely admit to my kids that when I was in college, there were times that drank enough to not remember what happened. Nothing bad ever happened that I know of.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 8, 2016 9:34:28 GMT -5
Just cause I'm feeling funky tonight... What if instead this was a case of a drunken teen driver who hit another car/pedestrian and killed someone (or maimed them?)? It seems in most of the published cases the "white privilege" teens who kill/maim other people don't get prison time. And future employability never seems to come up. Perhaps this strange twist of justice is why the guy will be appealing. www.madd.org/laws/law-overview/Vehicular_Homicide_Overview.pdfThis by no means indicate that I think this guy has received too harsh a punishment. Let's not forget if the two passers bye had not 'seen something and said something' this guy would be walking free and clear and perhaps even proudly sharing the story of his 'special' experience with his friends. While the woman would be left to wonder what happened... I think this is the tip of an iceberg. I bet there are plenty of guys reading/watching this and thanking their lucky stars there was no one around when they had their '20 minutes of action'. I doubt fear of the law will stop this from happening. I totally agree with tiny's points. Is this worse than vehicular homicide? No way. We are not allowed to blame the victim, but if the victim is so wasted they do not remember it, that is a big problem. I have both daughters and sons, and I give them a similar message. If you put yourself in a bad situation, bad things can happen. If a young man is walking down the street at 2am in a bad part of town with money hanging out of his wallet and gets robbed, we don't say he deserved it, but we say "boy that was stupid of him". So if a girl gets so drunk and gets assaulted, we shouldn't blame her for the crime, but we should say "boy that was stupid of her". I tell all my kids to avoid putting themselves in bad situations, drinking so much that they do stupid things, which would include making one stupid decision like getting behind the wheel when they are not supposed to. Don't do anything stupid, or don't let something stupid happen to you. And BTW I will freely admit to my kids that when I was in college, there were times that drank enough to not remember what happened. Nothing bad ever happened that I know of. bad things can happen, but that still does not excuse him from "fucking" her behind a dumpster while she was passed out.
If it wasn't her, it would have been somebody else.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 8, 2016 9:42:26 GMT -5
I thought you could appeal the sentence or the whole trial. And if it's the trial, and he's granted a new one, theoretically he could get a worse sentence then the first go round because it's as if the first trial never happened? He can appeal both the sentence or the whole trial.
He'd be nuts to appeal the sentence, it's not harsh or excessive.
I have no idea what happened in the trial and whether there are any appealable issues. But yes, if there are serious mistakes, he can appeal and get a new trial, if warranted. It's not warranted very often.
If someone goes back for a second trial, in theory the judge could give a harsher sentence the second time around, but it's not likely. That sets up an appeal for harsh and excessive sentence right there.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 8, 2016 9:43:01 GMT -5
So if a girl gets so drunk and gets assaulted, we shouldn't blame her for the crime, but we should say "boy that was stupid of her"
That IS blaming her for the crime. If she hadn't been stupid she wouldn't have been a victim. Since she was stupid she has to accept the consequences of her actions.
Where is the accountability in this statement for the guy who couldn't keep it in his pants and took her being drunk as an open invitation to assult her behind a dumpster?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 8, 2016 9:44:18 GMT -5
If you leave your purse in the cart at the grocery store by mistake, and someone takes your wallet, are you to blame for the crime?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 8, 2016 9:47:17 GMT -5
If you leave your purse in the cart at the grocery store by mistake, and someone takes your wallet, are you to blame for the crime? No. But do you think to yourself, that was stupid of me to leave it there. I am going to be more careful about my purse in the future, because even though they caught the purse snatching criminal it was a major pain in the ass to deal with it and I don't want it to happen to me again.
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