kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 15, 2016 14:24:43 GMT -5
Would it be feasible for you to simply sign over your interest in the house and walk away? I know it wouldn't be prudent from a financial standpoint, but I'm thinking more from the sanity and emotional well being side of things. To me, the BS your dealing with isn't worth any amount of possible future money. Best wishes for you on this. Wow, what a mess. Why on earth should Mich walk away from an inheritance from her father and mother? This woman (wife #2) is not being evil - she is being financially stupid. She has no backbone and cannot say 'no' to her adult children. Enmeshment sucks.
It is perfectly reasonable for Mich's father to want to take care of his second wife for the remainder of her life, but to also want to leave his estate to HIS children (not the wife's children, especially since the initial money for the house came from wife #1, Mich's mom). How it was set up is the way to do both - if everybody plays nice. Mich is clearly uneasy that things could go south. And she (eventually) needs that family money to help secure her retirement/old age. Yeah it's a mess but Mich shouldn't walk away. Sez me. YMMV.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jan 15, 2016 14:37:22 GMT -5
Would it be feasible for you to simply sign over your interest in the house and walk away? I know it wouldn't be prudent from a financial standpoint, but I'm thinking more from the sanity and emotional well being side of things. To me, the BS your dealing with isn't worth any amount of possible future money. Best wishes for you on this. Wow, what a mess. Why on earth should Mich walk away from an inheritance from her father and mother? This woman (wife #2) is not being evil - she is being financial stupid. She has no backbone and cannot say 'no' to her adult children. Enmeshment sucks.
It is perfectly reasonable for Mich's father to want to take care of his second wife for the remainder of her life, but to also want to leave his estate to HIS children (not the wife's children, especially since the initial money for the house came from wife #1, Mich's mom). How it was set up is the way to do both - if everybody plays nice. Mich is clearly uneasy that things could go south. And she (eventually) needs that family money to help secure her retirement/old age. Yeah it's a mess but Mich shouldn't walk away. Sez me. YMMV.
I agree. In fact, I think Mich's step-mother has been amazingly lucky to have step-children who are trying to honor their father's wishes, because many people in that position wouldn't. If I were in her shoes at this stage I would be telling her she needed to think about buying me out or be prepared to sell the house in the next six months to a year.
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kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 15, 2016 14:41:58 GMT -5
Why on earth should Mich walk away from an inheritance from her father and mother? This woman (wife #2) is not being evil - she is being financial stupid. She has no backbone and cannot say 'no' to her adult children. Enmeshment sucks.
It is perfectly reasonable for Mich's father to want to take care of his second wife for the remainder of her life, but to also want to leave his estate to HIS children (not the wife's children, especially since the initial money for the house came from wife #1, Mich's mom). How it was set up is the way to do both - if everybody plays nice. Mich is clearly uneasy that things could go south. And she (eventually) needs that family money to help secure her retirement/old age. Yeah it's a mess but Mich shouldn't walk away. Sez me. YMMV.
I agree. In fact, I think Mich's step-mother has been amazingly lucky to have step-children who are trying to honor their father's wishes, because many people in that position wouldn't. If I were in her shoes at this stage I would be telling her she needed to think about buying me out or be prepared to sell the house in the next six months to a year.
the step mom is (apparently) not evil, but she brings - um - 'complications' with her that potentially puts Mich and her sibs' inheritance at some level of risk. If I saw that happening to me, I'd want to wrap it up and be done with it too!
I too admire Mich for honoring her father's wishes.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 15, 2016 15:01:54 GMT -5
I agree. In fact, I think Mich's step-mother has been amazingly lucky to have step-children who are trying to honor their father's wishes, because many people in that position wouldn't. If I were in her shoes at this stage I would be telling her she needed to think about buying me out or be prepared to sell the house in the next six months to a year.
the step mom is (apparently) not evil, but she brings - um - 'complications' with her that potentially puts Mich and her sibs' inheritance at some level of risk. If I saw that happening to me, I'd want to wrap it up and be done with it too!
I too admire Mich for honoring her father's wishes.
She is definitely not evil, but she is really naive and doesn't see big pictures well. She also adores us (me and my sibs) to pieces, not as much as her own kids but there is an emotional connection there. She busted her butt to make sure that my dad had the best care he could get while he was sick and dying. But her kids are a clusterf#$%. For the first 5 or so years of their marriage, my dad did his damnedest to try to get them financially aware but he was largely unsuccessful. It really shows that after 35+ years of bad modeling, you need much more than 5 years of help to try to get them to help themselves. During that time, he was their local 'bank' and loaned out money for a myriad of purposes. When I was last there last winter, all are still unbanked. None have any sort of banking accounts and run any checks they receive through their mom's account. I'm still incredulous that they exist, but now that the bank of Dad is gone, it's going to be interesting to see how they buy their next cars.
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emma1420
Senior Member
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Post by emma1420 on Jan 15, 2016 15:29:43 GMT -5
the step mom is (apparently) not evil, but she brings - um - 'complications' with her that potentially puts Mich and her sibs' inheritance at some level of risk. If I saw that happening to me, I'd want to wrap it up and be done with it too!
I too admire Mich for honoring her father's wishes.
She is definitely not evil, but she is really naive and doesn't see big pictures well. She also adores us (me and my sibs) to pieces, not as much as her own kids but there is an emotional connection there. She busted her butt to make sure that my dad had the best care he could get while he was sick and dying. But her kids are a clusterf#$%. For the first 5 or so years of their marriage, my dad did his damnedest to try to get them financially aware but he was largely unsuccessful. It really shows that after 35+ years of bad modeling, you need much more than 5 years of help to try to get them to help themselves. During that time, he was their local 'bank' and loaned out money for a myriad of purposes. When I was last there last winter, all are still unbanked. None have any sort of banking accounts and run any checks they receive through their mom's account. I'm still incredulous that they exist, but now that the bank of Dad is gone, it's going to be interesting to see how they buy their next cars. I think the idea of trying to get your step-mom into a condo is a great idea, and I suspect they wouldn't want to move in with her if she was in a small one bedroom condo versus a nice family home. I think pushing her to sell that home is probably better for her in the long-run. Could she find a condo in her price range (or close to it so she only had a small mortgage)?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 15, 2016 15:38:33 GMT -5
Possibly, if there is anything left of the $50k that dad left her. She'd still need a small mortgage, but I have no idea how her credit is after the fiasco with her house. I don't remember when it went into foreclosure, but think it has been less than 7 years ago.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Jan 15, 2016 15:50:27 GMT -5
Could her 25% cover a senior development condo? Would you be agreeable to buy her out then sell once it's cleaned up
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 15, 2016 15:58:38 GMT -5
I am not buying her out. Period.
I do not live in NY anymore and cannot control what her kids do. So wife moves out and kids stay, and I have a bigger mess on my hands. As they have lived there, them being there would not seem like an anomaly in the community.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 15, 2016 16:05:46 GMT -5
Possibly, if there is anything left of the $50k that dad left her. She'd still need a small mortgage, but I have no idea how her credit is after the fiasco with her house. I don't remember when it went into foreclosure, but think it has been less than 7 years ago. I don't remember reading this anywhere;
Is she beneficiary of your dad's pension? Were they married long enough that she gets his SS benefit?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 15, 2016 16:38:22 GMT -5
She was married to dad for 10 years, so she gets his SS benefit, which is just over $1000/mo. My mom worked and had her own pension, so both of them could have functioned independently without the other's pension/SS had something happened to either of them (which it worked out that way). So dad never applied for the spouse's military benefit when he retired.
His second wife worked at the start of their marriage, and I have no idea whether or not she has any retirement accounts other than the money dad left her.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 15, 2016 16:51:52 GMT -5
Possibly, if there is anything left of the $50k that dad left her. She'd still need a small mortgage, but I have no idea how her credit is after the fiasco with her house. I don't remember when it went into foreclosure, but think it has been less than 7 years ago. She'll still be able to get a mortgage but it might be at a higher rate. FHA is a good resource for folks who might be a little credit challenged.
Ordinarily I would suggest that she rent a while until she's a little more settled but it sounds like her kids will sponge off of her whenever she has cash.
I suspect she's going to need to work part time for a while. It's too bad that your dad wasn't able to leave her with a pension as well as the SS. Do you think he had any retirement funds or savings that passed to her?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 15, 2016 17:01:41 GMT -5
Do you think he had any retirement funds or savings that passed to her?
Dad's retirement covered all of his needs and wants. In fact, when he retired he was saving about $2000/mo (this was the $50K that he passed onto her). He had an IRA, but when he turned 70, he had to take a RMD from his IRA, so he did the kitchen renovations with that.
There were no other retirement accounts, just his military pension and SS.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 15, 2016 17:26:22 GMT -5
So he cashed in his entire IRA to do the kitchen reno? Yikes!
Well as you know, she's not working with a lot of money. And it's a tough situation to be in. But I have to say with even more money the situation doesn't necessarily get better.
You may recall the situation we were in dealing with FIL's 3rd wife. In the end, despite FIL having her keep all of the proceeds from her home, putting a down payment of about $100k on a nice condo in Palm Springs (proceeds came from an invasion of principal of the family Trust which was to go to DH), bank accounts and a life estate in FIL's home, it was still not enough. Her kids felt that DH should support her "because she took care of his father". Never mind that they were married for 8 years and she had two able-bodied sons in their 30s. She also had her own state teacher's pension of about 30 of service.
The kicker is that she's going to have to deal with a substantially negative lifestyle change which is never easy but especially hard when you get older. And her kids are going to have to deal with no more economic out patient support. I suspect that's going to be the hardest issue for her.
You're doing what you can. I applaud you for doing the right thing. I wish I could be more upbeat but I suspect this isn't going to end well and there may be some hurt feelings. Just stay true to yourself and recognize that you didn't put her in the situation she's in and she's not your responsibility.
Good luck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 18:55:00 GMT -5
So he cashed in his entire IRA to do the kitchen reno? Yikes! No, just the RMD, the amount they make you withdraw annually starting at age 70, to force you to pay taxes on it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 15, 2016 19:35:40 GMT -5
No kidding. I have three "children" and their mother praying for my demise daily.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 15, 2016 19:45:36 GMT -5
So he cashed in his entire IRA to do the kitchen reno? Yikes! No, just the RMD, the amount they make you withdraw annually starting at age 70, to force you to pay taxes on it. If that's the case then the widow would have likely inherited that account as well.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 15, 2016 19:51:46 GMT -5
No kidding. I have three "children" and their mother praying for my demise daily. Don't eat any food they give you.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 15, 2016 20:44:15 GMT -5
So he cashed in his entire IRA to do the kitchen reno? Yikes!
Well as you know, she's not working with a lot of money. And it's a tough situation to be in. But I have to say with even more money the situation doesn't necessarily get better.
You may recall the situation we were in dealing with FIL's 3rd wife. In the end, despite FIL having her keep all of the proceeds from her home, putting a down payment of about $100k on a nice condo in Palm Springs (proceeds came from an invasion of principal of the family Trust which was to go to DH), bank accounts and a life estate in FIL's home, it was still not enough. Her kids felt that DH should support her "because she took care of his father". Never mind that they were married for 8 years and she had two able-bodied sons in their 30s. She also had her own state teacher's pension of about 30 of service.
The kicker is that she's going to have to deal with a substantially negative lifestyle change which is never easy but especially hard when you get older. And her kids are going to have to deal with no more economic out patient support. I suspect that's going to be the hardest issue for her.
You're doing what you can. I applaud you for doing the right thing. I wish I could be more upbeat but I suspect this isn't going to end well and there may be some hurt feelings. Just stay true to yourself and recognize that you didn't put her in the situation she's in and she's not your responsibility.
Good luck.
The IRA wasn't huge, about $25k. Realize, he was retired military and was living way under his retirement income and never had a need for it. But he lost about 50% of it when the market crashed in 2008ish? and rather than wait it out, pulled everything out of investmentsand put in a cash fund getting virtually no interest. He had to take his RMD in 2011-12, I think so just pulled it all out. He he put in new cabinets, appliances, floor, electrical in the kitchen, he recarpeted the house and put on a new roof and windows with the money. I think he did a lot with that $25k. He never had a job with a 401k, only pension. The IRA was just $2000 contributions (usually less) that he scraped together while he was raising us.
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