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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 22:12:18 GMT -5
School District Approves Armed Teachers, Provides the Handgunsby AWR HAWKINS 20 Dec 2015 On December 16, school board members in Keene, Texas, voted not simply to allow armed teachers, but also to provide the handguns teachers will carry. Ironically, the effort was supported by Keene Independent School District (ISD) superintendent Ricky Stephens, who opposed arming teachers when hired three years ago. “Now he says the world has changed and so has his opinion.” According to Fox 5, Keene ISD members “approved a policy that would allow a few select staff members inside its four campuses to carry a gun.” The names of those who will be carrying are being withheld, but the guns they carry will be “provided by the district.” ... More at the following WEBPAGE LINK: Breitbart.com
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Dec 21, 2015 22:33:37 GMT -5
Well that was dumb. What has changed? Are terrorists starting to target schools in one horse towns in Texas or is it the local white kids?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 22:39:49 GMT -5
I think more school districts should follow suit. The police are great for investigating and finding the responsible parties AFTER the incident is over... but it's been said before and it'll be said again, because it's true: "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 22:40:58 GMT -5
Well that was dumb. What has changed? Are terrorists starting to target schools in one horse towns in Texas or is it the local white kids? You really don't understand the issue... do you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 22:59:14 GMT -5
I think more school districts should follow suit. The police are great for investigating and finding the responsible parties AFTER the incident is over... but it's been said before and it'll be said again, because it's true: "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". My daughters have had teachers that I wouldn't trust with sharp scissors or a pocket knife, much less a loaded weapon. I'm still trying to figure out how the Republican party can simultaneously hold the position that public school teachers are too stupid to properly teach kids how to do simple math, but they're capable enough to have loaded weapons around those same kids. Seems like the first belief would preclude the second. What do I know though. They didn't say they were going to give one to every teacher that asked for one. They said "a few select staff members". I'm sure those that can't be trusted with sharp scissors won't get through the selection process.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 21, 2015 23:00:08 GMT -5
My daughters have had teachers that I wouldn't trust with sharp scissors or a pocket knife, much less a loaded weapon. I'm still trying to figure out how the Republican party can simultaneously hold the position that public school teachers are too stupid to properly teach kids how to do simple math, but they're capable enough to have loaded weapons around those same kids. Seems like the first belief would preclude the second. What do I know though. They didn't say they were going to give one to every teacher that asked for one. They said "a few select staff members". I'm sure those that can't be trusted with sharp scissors won't get through the selection process. are you, now?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 23:06:03 GMT -5
They didn't say they were going to give one to every teacher that asked for one. They said "a few select staff members". I'm sure those that can't be trusted with sharp scissors won't get through the selection process. are you, now? Well... if you can't trust government bureaucracy who can you trust?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2015 23:08:57 GMT -5
I think more school districts should follow suit. The police are great for investigating and finding the responsible parties AFTER the incident is over... but it's been said before and it'll be said again, because it's true: "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
It's not the only way. Even TV shows like Person of Interest or Scorpion show there is multiple ways to stop a gunman(or gunperson) than simply using your own gun to fire at them. Yes, maybe its easier for some, but the below and similar events would have never happened if people just sat back and told themselves. 'Well, there's nothing I can do.' 'You need a gun to stop someone with a gun.'
A 28-year-old Frenchman, whose name was released only as "Damien A.", was heading to the toilet as the armed gunman was exiting.[14] Damien A. attempted to restrain or disarm the gunman but fell to the floor in the ensuing struggle. An American-born Frenchman, 51-year-old Mark Moogalian,[14] attempted to wrest the rifle from the gunman, who then drew an automatic 9mm Luger pistol.[1][2][22] Moogalian was shot through the back of the neck; seriously injured, he played dead.[14][16][23][24][25] The assailant also tried to fire his rifle, but it jammed.[16]
The gunman was then tackled and subdued by a group of three American friends, two of them off-duty members of the U.S. Armed Forces.[23][26][27] They were identified as 23-year-old Airman First Class Spencer Stone,[28] 23-year-old Anthony Sadler,[29][30] and 22-year-old Specialist Alek Skarlatos.[22][31][32][33] Sadler told CNN that Skarlatos yelled "Get him!" after which "Spencer immediately gets up to charge the guy, followed by Alek, then myself."[12] In an interview with Sky News, Skarlatos added that they had been lucky that the attacker's rifle had jammed.[34] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Thalys_train_attack
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 21, 2015 23:09:52 GMT -5
Guns don't save lives, people do.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 23:36:34 GMT -5
Guns don't save lives, people do.
LOL... good counter. I give credit where credit is due. Unfortunately I was wrong on the quote... it's not "the only way" the quote actually goes "the best way"... and it's true. The best way to stoop a bad guy with a gun IS a good guy with a gun. Other ways can happen... but they are far less likely to be successful.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Dec 21, 2015 23:50:26 GMT -5
Mass shooting are stopped by unarmed people on a regular basis- get over your gun fetish. I think the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is preventing him from getting one At that point there is a bad guy without a gun.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Dec 21, 2015 23:58:53 GMT -5
Well that was dumb. What has changed? Are terrorists starting to target schools in one horse towns in Texas or is it the local white kids? You really don't understand the issue... do you? I understand it about 10X more than you obviously. But tell us- what is the underlying "issue"? What has 'changed'? Arming teachers? What is your plan for that? Any jackass with a permit is suddenly qualified to protect the flock? I agree buy the gun, but anything less than police qualification is a threat to children. Want to have teachers carry- OK I will be on board with that when you cross train them as peace officers and pay them extra- but you won't do that because teachers are just liberal indoctrinators pushing Sharia law right Get real dude. I think the coal ash spill got in your water- but take solace, the terrorists are not coming to your town, the assholes you vote for have already exploited you to the point you think handguns and xenophobia will fix your life- so vote Trump! He is your man- USA USA USA right
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 22, 2015 7:44:54 GMT -5
I personally don't agree with this. I do agree that we need ARMED security in schools. But, i want that armed security to be a trained security guard. Carrying a gun doens't mean that you are trained or know how and when to use it. Teachers need to focus on teaching. Teachers are distracted all day long with all manner of things in their job. They could be overpowered and some kids could take their gun. Security have the only job of Security. They aren't being distracted with all the demands of a teacher. And, what if an innocent child is killed by the teacher's gun as inadvertant collateral damage?
Yes, let's arm the schools. We protect our money with guns but not our children? That's insane. But, let's do it using trained personel. People who are have to have routine training and understand the criminal element and how to deal with it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 20:27:18 GMT -5
You really don't understand the issue... do you? I understand it about 10X more than you obviously. But tell us- what is the underlying "issue"? What has 'changed'? Arming teachers? What is your plan for that? Any jackass with a permit is suddenly qualified to protect the flock? I agree buy the gun, but anything less than police qualification is a threat to children. Want to have teachers carry- OK I will be on board with that when you cross train them as peace officers and pay them extra- but you won't do that because teachers are just liberal indoctrinators pushing Sharia law right Get real dude. I think the coal ash spill got in your water- but take solace, the terrorists are not coming to your town, the assholes you vote for have already exploited you to the point you think handguns and xenophobia will fix your life- so vote Trump! He is your man- USA USA USA right Obviously you've confused the definitions of "less" and "more". "My" plan for armed teachers is background checks, and recommendations by the principle and maybe the school board for character and reliability. Let everyone volunteer that wants to, but only pick ones that have passed the checks I just proposed. As to " anything less than police qualification is a threat to children"... some police or armed guards are LESS proficient with a pistol than non-police and non-guards (one of those things you probably know 10X LESS than I do... obviously). HOWEVER, that said and notwithstanding it, I wouldn't be opposed to having them police certified (at the school's expense). And I don't know where you got the " teachers are just liberal indoctrinators pushing Sharia law" crap... but that didn't come from me. Teachers should be teaching facts. Period. Religion deserves no place in our schools... none whatsoever. I'd also like to let you know I wouldn't vote for Trump if he was the only candidate on the ballot. He'll be just as bad for the country as Obama... just in a different direction of bad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 20:46:18 GMT -5
I am a teacher so I feel free to chime in here.
I didn't sign up to be a security guard. It is bad enough that I am now a nurse in the sense that I will be trained to insert a catheter if necessary. I can also be required to give insulin shots. I couldn't give my own husband shots when he needed them, but maybe I will retire before that becomes necessary. Please.
But I'm not going to shoot anyone. I will hide my students to the best of my ability. I would probably even make the shooter go through me first. (I threw the "probably" in there because you never know until it happens.) I will talk the person down if possible, and I honestly think I could be effective at that some of the time.
But no gun. I cannot shoot anyone. So you are just asking someone to take it from me.
Can I please just make the world safe for grammar? When did I start receiving combat pay?
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Dec 22, 2015 21:17:03 GMT -5
I understand it about 10X more than you obviously. But tell us- what is the underlying "issue"? What has 'changed'? Arming teachers? What is your plan for that? Any jackass with a permit is suddenly qualified to protect the flock? I agree buy the gun, but anything less than police qualification is a threat to children. Want to have teachers carry- OK I will be on board with that when you cross train them as peace officers and pay them extra- but you won't do that because teachers are just liberal indoctrinators pushing Sharia law right Get real dude. I think the coal ash spill got in your water- but take solace, the terrorists are not coming to your town, the assholes you vote for have already exploited you to the point you think handguns and xenophobia will fix your life- so vote Trump! He is your man- USA USA USA right Obviously you've confused the definitions of "less" and "more". "My" plan for armed teachers is background checks, and recommendations by the principle and maybe the school board for character and reliability. Let everyone volunteer that wants to, but only pick ones that have passed the checks I just proposed. As to " anything less than police qualification is a threat to children"... some police or armed guards are LESS proficient with a pistol than non-police and non-guards (one of those things you probably know 10X LESS than I do... obviously). HOWEVER, that said and notwithstanding it, I wouldn't be opposed to having them police certified (at the school's expense). And I don't know where you got the " teachers are just liberal indoctrinators pushing Sharia law" crap... but that didn't come from me. Teachers should be teaching facts. Period. Religion deserves no place in our schools... none whatsoever. I'd also like to let you know I wouldn't vote for Trump if he was the only candidate on the ballot. He'll be just as bad for the country as Obama... just in a different direction of bad. Not you personally on the teacher thing- but that comes from the same group with the 'guns everywhere' agenda. They are not fond of teachers. I might be convinced on something less than peace officer training if the training was at least on par as the same things taught at the academy- no reason they should have to know everything that a police officer has to know for the job as they would be only training for active shooter situations- they have the time to do it- not working during the summer right- so go through the academy or something similar. What I will never be OK with is just allowing anyone with a carry permit to be put in the position of first responder. Of course now there will have to be a way for police to identify the 'good guys with guns' amidst chaos. I think it just some feel good political measure for this tiny town that better be looking out for students with guns if they are worried.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Dec 22, 2015 21:42:16 GMT -5
I keep waiting to hear how gun ownership contributed to global warming, Catholic clergy pedophilia and the war Bush alone started.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 21:53:59 GMT -5
I'm ok with everyone having guns if we are going to do mandatory service, so that everyone has militia training.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 23:03:17 GMT -5
I am a teacher so I feel free to chime in here.
I didn't sign up to be a security guard. It is bad enough that I am now a nurse in the sense that I will be trained to insert a catheter if necessary. I can also be required to give insulin shots. I couldn't give my own husband shots when he needed them, but maybe I will retire before that becomes necessary. Please.
But I'm not going to shoot anyone. I will hide my students to the best of my ability. I would probably even make the shooter go through me first. (I threw the "probably" in there because you never know until it happens.) I will talk the person down if possible, and I honestly think I could be effective at that some of the time.
But no gun. I cannot shoot anyone. So you are just asking someone to take it from me.
Can I please just make the world safe for grammar? When did I start receiving combat pay? That (basically your entire post) is the reason I would only support a VOLUNTARY option. Let teachers that want to, volunteer... and those that don't want to, don't have to.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Dec 22, 2015 23:17:15 GMT -5
I propose that we position at all good vantage points in all cities and towns around the country a marksman with a high power rifle accompanied by a trained spotter with the sole mission of taking out the "bad guys". Who goes- as in who is the next target- should be left entirely up to them. They will not be subjected to any accusations if they make a mistake. They will be on constant watches, around the clock. Funding should be public. Let's make America great again!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 23:45:30 GMT -5
I am a teacher so I feel free to chime in here.
I didn't sign up to be a security guard. It is bad enough that I am now a nurse in the sense that I will be trained to insert a catheter if necessary. I can also be required to give insulin shots. I couldn't give my own husband shots when he needed them, but maybe I will retire before that becomes necessary. Please.
But I'm not going to shoot anyone. I will hide my students to the best of my ability. I would probably even make the shooter go through me first. (I threw the "probably" in there because you never know until it happens.) I will talk the person down if possible, and I honestly think I could be effective at that some of the time.
But no gun. I cannot shoot anyone. So you are just asking someone to take it from me.
Can I please just make the world safe for grammar? When did I start receiving combat pay? That (basically your entire post) is the reason I would only support a VOLUNTARY option. Let teachers that want to, volunteer... and those that don't want to, don't have to.
I'm thinking back over the masses of people I taught with over the years... and the ones id guess would volunteer... are not the ones I would want to be armed around me or children...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 23, 2015 11:56:43 GMT -5
That (basically your entire post) is the reason I would only support a VOLUNTARY option. Let teachers that want to, volunteer.
I think you'd run into the problem you do when it comes to driving. EVERYONE thinks they are an above average driver, however most people are piss poor drivers.
You're going to have a bunch of people who think they are going to be good with guns and will be able to take out the bad guy volunteering when in reality most of them are going to freeze just like the rest of us or panic and shoot bystanders.
Policemen, soldiers, security guards, etc have to go thru extensive screening and training to handle their weapons and constantly keep it updated. Even with all that they still make mistakes.
Who is going to pay to make sure these teachers recieve the type of training they need to be equipped to deal with an emergency? Who is going to make sure that they keep up with regular re-certification? Who is going to make sure that these guns are always accounted for?
I agree with Shooby if you absolutely want someone armed in the school that badly then it should be an actual police officer. Someone who is regularly trained to handle a crisis and a weapon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 19:19:08 GMT -5
That (basically your entire post) is the reason I would only support a VOLUNTARY option. Let teachers that want to, volunteer... and those that don't want to, don't have to.
I'm thinking back over the masses of people I taught with over the years... and the ones id guess would volunteer... are not the ones I would want to be armed around me or children...
You are forgetting that then the approval process starts. Not everyone that volunteers will be approved. I never said "if you volunteer, you get to". Check out my post BEFORE the one you quoted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 19:25:55 GMT -5
That (basically your entire post) is the reason I would only support a VOLUNTARY option. Let teachers that want to, volunteer.
I think you'd run into the problem you do when it comes to driving. EVERYONE thinks they are an above average driver, however most people are piss poor drivers. You're going to have a bunch of people who think they are going to be good with guns and will be able to take out the bad guy volunteering when in reality most of them are going to freeze just like the rest of us or panic and shoot bystanders. Policemen, soldiers, security guards, etc have to go thru extensive screening and training to handle their weapons and constantly keep it updated. Even with all that they still make mistakes. Who is going to pay to make sure these teachers recieve the type of training they need to be equipped to deal with an emergency? Who is going to make sure that they keep up with regular re-certification? Who is going to make sure that these guns are always accounted for? I agree with Shooby if you absolutely want someone armed in the school that badly then it should be an actual police officer. Someone who is regularly trained to handle a crisis and a weapon. See my previous post. (oh, and security guards don't go through as "extensive" of training as some people would like to think. There may be state-to-state differences, but when I was hired as a security guard in Florida in the 90's, I was offered "armed" for 50 CENTS more an hour. I asked about the qualifications and responsibilities {had to provide my own weapon and ammo, and if I fired the gun, I was personally responsible for damages and/or legal issues with the discharge of the weapon} and decided it wasn't worth it. The "extensive training" for it {had I chosen to take the offer} was a background check the same as if I were getting a CWP. That's it.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 19:31:09 GMT -5
Which brings up a good point about liability as an armed teacher.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 23, 2015 19:37:19 GMT -5
if i were the employer, i would not want to take that liability.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 19:45:09 GMT -5
Which brings up a good point about liability as an armed teacher. More reason it should be voluntary.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 23, 2015 20:42:45 GMT -5
Some kid is gonna get shot on accident. Who's liable?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 21:26:28 GMT -5
Some kid is gonna get shot on accident. Who's liable? My answer would be "the person that shot them".
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 23, 2015 22:52:38 GMT -5
That'll teach kids not to piss off teachers!!
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