Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 3, 2015 11:15:21 GMT -5
... IDK. We probably will not get a clear motive from the press or even a half baked one. Forget the media, I come here for half baked. Browse the thread from start to finish like I just did. You'll go though the Kubler Ross Sircular seven stages of mass shooting grief: Confusion - Nobody can quite figure out who shot what where. Headline Spamming - The news agencies can't figure out who shot what where either, or who's still alive, or how many are dead, or who's in custody, but that's not going to stop them from guessing in real time. Demands for Gun Control - This wouldn't have happened if Americans had fewer guns, damn it! ISIS Hysteria - Sweet snowy leopards, they're Muslims! Depression - All this speculation, and none of it matters. None of it matters. Media Catch-up - The news agencies at long last have some clue of who shot what where, how many are dead, who's in custody, and other data they really shouldn't have reported on earlier. Now begins the week-long 24-hour news cycle obsessing over the killers' goals, their motivations, their hopes and dreams, their fears and failings. Acceptance - The public acknowledges that we really have no clue why this shooting happened or how to prevent the next one, and we probably never will. My condolences to the victims, for what little it's worth. This is just... madness.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:17:08 GMT -5
the man and woman were radicalized Muslims not 'ordinary citizens' We know that how?
It is certainly suspected by many to be sure. Welts list of places to be shot included two mass shootings done by relatively young crazy men - the theatre shooting and the school shooting. No one assumed they were radicalized Christians, Muslims, or Atheists.
The Colorado shooter planned at least as much as this couple did. The big question is did they go crazy because of perceived personal slights or does it have anything to do with radical Islam? Being Muslim is not sufficient cause to make them part of the radical crazies. Maybe she had postpartum depression and was delusional. Hard to know now, as people are mostly guessing.
we actually don't know that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:18:37 GMT -5
Reports on CBS This Morning said the man was an employee of the place that was having the party, he left mad, and came back with his wife and guns.
I'm holding judgment to see if this was an ISIS related terrorist attack, or just a run of the mill violent whackadoodle.
Even if it wasn't an official act of Isis, the use of Isis-style attacks makes it so. um....really?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 3, 2015 11:22:16 GMT -5
Even if it wasn't an official act of Isis, the use of Isis-style attacks makes it so. um....really? ISIS should sue for trademark infringement.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:22:48 GMT -5
Even if it wasn't an official act of Isis, the use of Isis-style attacks makes it so. Do we even know if it was religiously motivated?
no. we do not know that. but at least half of this board is assuming it. and they might be right.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2015 11:24:27 GMT -5
Forget the media, I come here for half baked. Browse the thread from start to finish like I just did. You'll go though the Kubler Ross Sircular seven stages of mass shooting grief: Confusion - Nobody can quite figure out who shot what where. Headline Spamming - The news agencies can't figure out who shot what where either, or who's still alive, or how many are dead, or who's in custody, but that's not going to stop them from guessing in real time. Demands for Gun Control - This wouldn't have happened if Americans had fewer guns, damn it! ISIS Hysteria - Sweet snowy leopards, they're Muslims! Depression - All this speculation, and none of it matters. None of it matters. Media Catch-up - The news agencies at long last have some clue of who shot what where, how many are dead, who's in custody, and other data they really shouldn't have reported on earlier. Now begins the week-long 24-hour news cycle obsessing over the killers' goals, their motivations, their hopes and dreams, their fears and failings. Acceptance - The public acknowledges that we really have no clue why this shooting happened or how to prevent the next one, and we probably never will. My condolences to the victims, for what little it's worth. This is just... madness. Hey Virgil, I noticed you deleted your post response to my please don't pay Trump 5 mil to do a debate. I hope MidJD got to read it, as I was going to direct her to it.
Cute I guess. I generially do the first two and the last simultaneously during most high profile stories like this. I would call it media milking more than catch up. Useful info added to earlier reports will be almost non-existent, possibly starting later today. Downside of cyber news.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:25:29 GMT -5
I May Be Crazy But I'm Not Stupid
A motorist is driving past a mental hospital when he gets a flat tire. He goes out to change the tire,and sees that one of the patients is watching him trough the fence. Nervous,trying to work quickly,he jacks up the car,takes off the wheel,puts the lug nuts into the hubcap and steps on the hubcap,sending the lug nuts clattering into a storm drain. The mental patient is still watching him trough the fence. The motorist desperately looks into the storm drain,but the lug nuts are gone. The patient is still watching. The motorist paces back and forth,trying to think of what to do-and the patient says, "Take one lug nut off each of the others tires,and you'll have three lug nuts on each" "That's brilliant!!!"says the motorist,"What's someone like you doing in an asylum?" "I'm here because I'm crazy"says the patient,"not because I'm stupid."
A composer friend of mine who spent some time in a mental rehabilitation center was encouraged to do a good deal of bridge playing. After one game, his partner was criticizing his play of an ace on a trick which had already been won. My friend stood up and said, "If you think I came to the loony bin to learn to play bridge, you're crazy." -J. Cage
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:27:14 GMT -5
... IDK. We probably will not get a clear motive from the press or even a half baked one. Forget the media, I come here for half baked. we call it ParBaked in the industry.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:29:37 GMT -5
It's probable we'll never know what motivated this attack. Two of the people known to be involved are dead, so can't be questioned. There may be another person involved but law enforcement doesn't know if they have that person in custody, or not. They think they might but they're not sure. Unless there's some sort of manifesto somewhere waiting to be uncovered, it's likely anything we come up with will be nothing more than conjecture. i think we are going to find out. i think they were sloppy. of course, half the board thinks i am wrong, and maybe i am. fine.
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 3, 2015 11:32:28 GMT -5
It's probable we'll never know what motivated this attack. Two of the people known to be involved are dead, so can't be questioned. There may be another person involved but law enforcement doesn't know if they have that person in custody, or not. They think they might but they're not sure. Unless there's some sort of manifesto somewhere waiting to be uncovered, it's likely anything we come up with will be nothing more than conjecture. i think we are going to find out. i think they were sloppy. of course, half the board thinks i am wrong, and maybe i am. fine. Can you at least give us, with 14 dead, 17 wounded, they did what they came to do? Or would have to be 31 dead to make the cut?
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:39:13 GMT -5
i think we are going to find out. i think they were sloppy. of course, half the board thinks i am wrong, and maybe i am. fine. with 14 dead, 17 wounded, they did what they came to do? yes. the rest of your response was too personal/mocking to comment on. i am not here to fight. i am here to discuss. i already articulated why i think this attack was really sloppy, last night. if you don't accept it, fine.
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 3, 2015 11:46:42 GMT -5
That was not mocking. That was a legitimate question. For me one death and any wounded is one too many and I consider it a success. I do not accept your stance, but so we do not get the mods involved, I will stay away. ty
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2015 11:49:05 GMT -5
Most of the carnage unfolded in a single room of the Inland Regional Center, the police said, which was filled with people with whom Mr. Farook had a personal connection. While shots rang out, others in the building cowered and hid, sending text messages or making frantic calls.
The attack does not appear to fit neatly into any category — mass shooters usually act alone, and are rarely women — and raises unusual questions for investigators. If the killers were not terrorists, why were they prepared and equipped in advance for violence on a large scale? If they were terrorists, why did the assault appear to have elements of a workplace grudge, and why did they not choose a more symbolic or prominent target?
www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting.html
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 3, 2015 11:52:24 GMT -5
Most of the carnage unfolded in a single room of the Inland Regional Center, the police said, which was filled with people with whom Mr. Farook had a personal connection. While shots rang out, others in the building cowered and hid, sending text messages or making frantic calls.
The attack does not appear to fit neatly into any category — mass shooters usually act alone, and are rarely women — and raises unusual questions for investigators. If the killers were not terrorists, why were they prepared and equipped in advance for violence on a large scale? If they were terrorists, why did the assault appear to have elements of a workplace grudge, and why did they not choose a more symbolic or prominent target?
www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting.html
Great question. Hopefully their computer will supply the answers for some of it.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:53:03 GMT -5
That was not mocking. That was a legitimate question. For me one death and any wounded is one too many and I consider it a success. I do not accept your stance, but so we do not get the mods involved, I will stay away. ty my comment had nothing to do with "success" or "failure". if i shoot a three pointer while tripping over my shoelaces, and it goes down, nobody will say that it was "well done", but nobody would deny that it was "successful".
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 3, 2015 11:54:28 GMT -5
At this point the shooting reminds of past post office shootings. Something has been pissing this guy off at work for quite some time and he explodes (with help from his wife).
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:54:40 GMT -5
Most of the carnage unfolded in a single room of the Inland Regional Center, the police said, which was filled with people with whom Mr. Farook had a personal connection. While shots rang out, others in the building cowered and hid, sending text messages or making frantic calls.
The attack does not appear to fit neatly into any category — mass shooters usually act alone, and are rarely women — and raises unusual questions for investigators. If the killers were not terrorists, why were they prepared and equipped in advance for violence on a large scale? If they were terrorists, why did the assault appear to have elements of a workplace grudge, and why did they not choose a more symbolic or prominent target?
www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting.html
this is precisely why i am not drawing any conclusions about this, yet. it has elements of both a grievance crime and a terrorist act.
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2015 11:54:44 GMT -5
That was not mocking. That was a legitimate question. For me one death and any wounded is one too many and I consider it a success. I do not accept your stance, but so we do not get the mods involved, I will stay away. ty Your question though implies the motive is about the numbers. Victims names have not been released yet.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 11:56:54 GMT -5
That was not mocking. That was a legitimate question. For me one death and any wounded is one too many and I consider it a success. I do not accept your stance, but so we do not get the mods involved, I will stay away. ty Your question though implies the motive is about the numbers. Victims names have not been released yet.
good point. the targets might have been very specific.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 3, 2015 11:59:11 GMT -5
Browse the thread from start to finish like I just did. You'll go though the Kubler Ross Sircular seven stages of mass shooting grief: Confusion - Nobody can quite figure out who shot what where. Headline Spamming - The news agencies can't figure out who shot what where either, or who's still alive, or how many are dead, or who's in custody, but that's not going to stop them from guessing in real time. Demands for Gun Control - This wouldn't have happened if Americans had fewer guns, damn it! ISIS Hysteria - Sweet snowy leopards, they're Muslims! Depression - All this speculation, and none of it matters. None of it matters. Media Catch-up - The news agencies at long last have some clue of who shot what where, how many are dead, who's in custody, and other data they really shouldn't have reported on earlier. Now begins the week-long 24-hour news cycle obsessing over the killers' goals, their motivations, their hopes and dreams, their fears and failings. Acceptance - The public acknowledges that we really have no clue why this shooting happened or how to prevent the next one, and we probably never will. My condolences to the victims, for what little it's worth. This is just... madness. Hey Virgil, I noticed you deleted your post response to my please don't pay Trump 5 mil to do a debate. I hope MidJD got to read it, as I was going to direct her to it.
Cute I guess. I generially do the first two and the last simultaneously during most high profile stories like this. I would call it media milking more than catch up. Useful info added to earlier reports will be almost non-existent, possibly starting later today. Downside of cyber news.
I actually wasn't the one who deleted it. It was deemed inappropriate, mainly because you were a 'character' in the drama. I didn't intend any offense. I hope none was taken.
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Post by Ombud on Dec 3, 2015 12:04:56 GMT -5
midjd, see her highlighted stmt: Here's a non-ISIS scenario. Wife has postpartum depression which is also putting hubby on edge. The co-workers throw them a baby shower. Comments are made perhaps because it is unknown when they got married and it is odd that her move to the US is right before or after the birth.
Wife feels dissed and her honor besmirched. They legally buy guns and plot for the next event that will have coworkers together to exact their revenge.
IDK. We probably will not get a clear motive from the press or even a half baked one. So your reasoning is that it's a version of honor killing and that's okay ?? Okay that we are importing a culture conducive to honor killing ? Damn I'd rather go with the Iman's version!! FWIW: It wasn't a baby shower I was asking her about this statement. FWIW: I do not believe it was an honor killing
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2015 12:06:52 GMT -5
Virgil, I was somewhat offended, but since it was so out of character to how I actually am - I did find it funny too.
Probably good it was deleted, I probably should delete my reply post to it as well.
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 3, 2015 12:34:06 GMT -5
I'm so glad I don't live there any more. I could go to a Planned Parenthood and get shot. I could go to a place of worship and get shot. I could go to school and get shot. I could go to a center for the handicapped and get shot. I could go to the movies and get shot.
You clearly need more guns in your country. You don't have radicalized Muslims YETVB, you don't see a difference between a ISIS sympathizer shooting at the military and ordinary citizens shooting up other ordinary citizens just for the hell of it? Really? the man and woman were radicalized Muslims not 'ordinary citizens' Even better. All the more reason not to import more Muslims. Where did they get the guns?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 3, 2015 12:43:43 GMT -5
The only one trying to tie this with Christianity is you. On multiple boards.
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Dec 3, 2015 12:46:48 GMT -5
Police say SB shooter was “radicalized, which contributed to his motive”
Google has many sources.
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2015 12:47:18 GMT -5
midjd , see her highlighted stmt: So your reasoning is that it's a version of honor killing and that's okay?? Okay that we are importing a culture conducive to honor killing? Damn I'd rather go with the Iman's version!! FWIW: It wasn't a baby shower I was asking her about this statement. FWIW: I do not believe it was an honor killing I have removed the word honor in the hope you stop linking that post with the concept of honor killing.
I believe it was a mass shooting.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 3, 2015 12:51:51 GMT -5
Virgil, I was somewhat offended, but since it was so out of character to how I actually am - I did find it funny too.
Probably good it was deleted, I probably should delete my reply post to it as well. So it was somewhat offensive but funny. That's roughly where teasing should be. In any case, admin ruled that teasing is off-limits, mainly due to the risk of personal disputes. Keep the list close at hand: No satire. No jokes. No teasing. No roleplay. No comics. No pranks. No scripture. No moralizing on contentious topics. No challenging posters' erroneous self-assessments. No accusing others of deceit. No using posters' names as epithets (e.g. "pulling a Virgil"). No photoshopping images of political figures. No inaccurate thread titles. No speculating about what other posters think. No questioning posters about spreading enemy propaganda. No poems. No impersonations. No telling cynical or disinterested posters to shove off. No provocative statements. No insensitive statements in emotionally-charged threads. And of course no name-calling or deprecating statements unless they're directed at somebody not on the board (e.g. a politician, a criminal, the Duggar family, etc.) or they're suitably indirect (e.g. "Democrats who think that [insert something Optimist believes here] are the insufferable puss-filled sores on America's arse.", which is A-OK per the rules). ETA: Might I also add "No speculating on the motives of shooters until at least three days after the shootings." For all our sakes, ladies and gentlement. You'd have better luck trying to paint a mural on the side of a moving bus.
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 3, 2015 12:53:57 GMT -5
Some planning went into this 1,600 rounds of ammo were at the suspects disposal. Wounded total up to 21 today.
Car did have Utah plates, rented four days ago with a return date of yesterday
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 3, 2015 13:14:13 GMT -5
Some planning went into this 1,600 rounds of ammo were at the suspects disposal. Wounded total up to 21 today. Car did have Utah plates, rented four days ago with a return date of yesterday My issue isn't with whether it had some planning. My issue is with: This was a very well planned organized attack. I am thinking that I will wait for more details before deciding on the quality of the attack.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2015 13:19:20 GMT -5
Some planning went into this 1,600 rounds of ammo were at the suspects disposal. Wounded total up to 21 today. Car did have Utah plates, rented four days ago with a return date of yesterday what? they wasted 1500 rounds? sounds like shitty planning to me.
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