Should Kids Be Trained to Treat Mom’s Heroin OD?

[The Captain]

www.yahoo.com/parenting/should-kids-be-trained-to-treat-moms-heroin-od-193627566.html

"Having a heroin-addicted parent is something that young children should never have to experience — but many live with the reality right in their family, either through parents or older siblings. It’s why some adults are seeking to empower them in a controversial way: by training kids as young as 8 to administer a lifesaving substance called naloxone, which reverses the effects of an opioid overdose."

I know the liberals will jump all over me, but this is just wrong on so many levels, and yes - I predicted this quote even before I read it:

“But for those of us who believe in empowering a child to possibly save a life, we should be able to do so.”

So let's make drugs legal, leave kids in the care of addicts (because it's better for them, after all) then condition "empower" them to believe they are responsible for the lives of their addicted family/friends and God help them if they don't get to them in time.

Of COURSE this is a good thing, right?

[Tennesseer]

Teach the kids how to dial 911.  That's it (for this type of medical situation).

What a thing for kids to have to remember throughout their lives.

[The Captain]

What really got my Irish up is they had the balls to compare it to using an epi pen.

Big difference between the two in my mind.  An adult with a severe allergy will be able to self administer.  If an adult uses drugs to a point where they can't self administer then you are forcing the child to be more responsible for the adult then the adult choose to be.

Sorry, but that's just messed up.

[Deleted]

After seeing first hand what a heroin addiction does to not only the addict but to those that surround the addict this is pretty pathetic.

[Wisconsin Beth]

1.  Will an addict keep a dose of this in their home? 
2.  If this is the stuff I'm thinking of, it brings the high down ASAP.  So an angry parent, deprived of their high, is going to quietly thank their child for saving them?  Or beat the crap out of them for disrupting their high?

[wvugurl26]

Hell no. If the parents are heroin addicts take the kid away. I have friends who struggled badly to get pregnant. And then I see this kind of garbage. They need rehab not to train their kids in case they overdose. I know life isn't fair but it seems so easy for these types of people to get pregnant. And have crack babies which is a whole other problem.

[grumpyhermit]

I'm about as liberal as they come - and do in fact think drugs should be legal, but no, this is completely ridiculous. If you are an active heroin user, to the point where you need to keep meds on hand in case you OD, kids should probably not be in your custody.

[swamp]

Oct 29, 2015 13:51:33 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

I'm about as liberal as they come - and do in fact think drugs should be legal, but no, this is completely ridiculous. If you are an active heroin user, to the point where you need to keep meds on hand in case you OD, kids should probably not be in your custody.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I skimmed over the link - apparently this started when the Mom who does the training was asked by her 8 year old daughter if she could take the training because of her brother, who's 25. 

[Tennesseer]

While clearly not the same, teaching a child how to administer naloxone to an OD'd parent reminds me of a 1985 TV movie called Love Is Never Silent staring Mare Winningham.  She plays the hearing adult daughter of deaf parents during the depression era.  She always felt responsible to take care of them throughout her life because they could not/would not interact with the hearing world.

One scene in the movie has her telling her parents their reluctance to interact with the hearing world forced her as a young child to deal with a funeral home and pick out a casket for her deceased, even younger brother.  She told her parents no child should ever have to do that.

This idea of kids administering nalozxone to their parent reminds me of that.

[billisonboard]

Let's look at the situation in the link.  A child has learned that their parent has been trained in a process that the parent might use on another of their children to save their life.  They ask to also be trained so they, too, might save their sibling's life.  Should they be denied that training?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Oct 29, 2015 14:07:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Let's look at the situation in the link.  A child has learned that their parent has been trained in a process that the parent might use on another of their children to save their life.  They ask to also be trained so they, too, might save their sibling's life.  Should they be denied that training?

I don't know. 

I guess I'm wondering how much the parent is enabling the drug user.  And the cost to the 8 year old.  As a parent of a 7.5 year old girl, I don't want her knowing about drugs and drug overdoses. I want her biggest issue to be "is Santa real or not" not how to make a life or death decision. 

[Opti]

Maybe I'm reading the link different then others, but it appears to me the author or someone used a title to make it sound like there was a big push to train kids to save OD'd parents, when it appears it might be more about letting some kids be trained to help family members this way - if they want to.

Big difference, at least to me.

[grumpyhermit]

Oct 29, 2015 14:07:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Let's look at the situation in the link.  A child has learned that their parent has been trained in a process that the parent might use on another of their children to save their life.  They ask to also be trained so they, too, might save their sibling's life.  Should they be denied that training?

No. Well as long as the parent doesn't mind, which the one in the OP clearly doesn't. However, training a child to help a sibling, is not the same as teaching a child to save an addicted parent. It's not so much the training - its the implication that the child is in the custody of an active user in danger of OD.

I guess you could make the case that it could be kept on hand for recovering addicts in case they relapse, but again, I am not sure that is a burden you place on a young child.

[imawino]

Well, to answer the question of the OP Should Kids Be Trained to Treat Mom’s Heroin OD?   Of course not.

However, if you actually read the story posted by the OP that is not at all what is happening.   

[imawino]

Oct 29, 2015 13:42:58 GMT -5 The Captain said:

What really got my Irish up is they had the balls to compare it to using an epi pen.

Big difference between the two in my mind.  An adult with a severe allergy will be able to self administer.  If an adult uses drugs to a point where they can't self administer then you are forcing the child to be more responsible for the adult then the adult choose to be.

Sorry, but that's just messed up.

If it operates like an Epi pen it is completely reasonable to state that it operates like an Epi pen. It doesn't take balls to state that fact, nor should it incite anger. And a person who is going into anaphylactic shock cannot always self-administer. 

[NancysSummerSip]

Oct 29, 2015 13:51:33 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

I'm about as liberal as they come - and do in fact think drugs should be legal, but no, this is completely ridiculous. If you are an active heroin user, to the point where you need to keep meds on hand in case you OD, kids should probably not be in your custody.

I think grumpy and I are a pair of liberal bookends. And I also say Oh.hell.no.

Heroin goes in. Kids go buh-bye. Drug abuse is a choice. You make that choice with dose number one. And addicts have options to get clean. In many jurisdictions, they have multiple options. I know recovery programs can be expensive, and obviously, many addicts don't have insurance. I get that, which is where the idea of the kid dosing the parent with an antidote may be coming from. Treating addicts is expensive: from www.recovery.org/topics/how-much-does-rehab-cost/:

The cost of a rehab program depends on a number of factors, such as what kind of treatment you choose, where it's located and how long you stay.
Inpatient can range from $2,000 - $25,000 for a 30-day program.
Outpatient can range from free to $10,000.
Detox can range from $300-$800 a day.

But staying addicted is expensive too. It can cost you everything: your home, car, job, family, friends and your life.

[mmhmm]

No, no, and NO! If the child expected to take on this responsibility is old enough to do so (read that as over 16), it's probably not the worst thing that could be done in the case described. However, this drug brings that high down fast if an efficacious dose is given (can be injected every 2-3 minutes if the patient doesn't respond). The person injected will go into withdrawals right away. It's ugly. It's very ugly and, worst case scenario, can result in seizures, or even cardiac arrest. This isn't something to be done by someone with little to no experience and certainly not by a young child. It must be injected into a muscle (outer thigh is used) and there is a method for doing so safely. I just see too many worrying little "ifs" in this scenario to feel it's a good idea. Much better, I'd say, to call 911. Let the pros take care of the situation. MOO

[swamp]

Oct 29, 2015 14:17:22 GMT -5 imawino said:

Well, to answer the question of the OP Should Kids Be Trained to Treat Mom’s Heroin OD?   Of course not.

However, if you actually read the story posted by the OP that is not at all what is happening.   

Pfft. Stop letting facts get in the way of a good rant.

[Bluerobin]

Junkies are basically NOT worth saving.  Let them die with their bad decisions.  Why should society keep paying to "save" (enable) them?  Kids would be better if taken away.  Flame away! 
I basically think all drugs should be legal (sold at the Walgreen's) and if you are idiotic enough to take them, you eventually get what you deserve.

[imawino]

Oct 29, 2015 14:39:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 29, 2015 14:17:22 GMT -5 imawino said:

Well, to answer the question of the OP Should Kids Be Trained to Treat Mom’s Heroin OD?   Of course not.

However, if you actually read the story posted by the OP that is not at all what is happening.   

Pfft. Stop letting facts get in the way of a good rant.

Can you believe the stupid liberals demanding that toddlers patrol crack houses and administer first aid to the addicts?  Will the madness never end??!! 

[The Captain]

Oct 29, 2015 14:51:17 GMT -5 imawino said:

Oct 29, 2015 14:39:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

Pfft. Stop letting facts get in the way of a good rant.

Can you believe the stupid liberals demanding that toddlers patrol crack houses and administer first aid to the addicts?  Will the madness never end??!! 

So you think this is a good thing, then - right? 

[swamp]

Oct 29, 2015 15:07:35 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Oct 29, 2015 14:51:17 GMT -5 imawino said:

Can you believe the stupid liberals demanding that toddlers patrol crack houses and administer first aid to the addicts?  Will the madness never end??!! 

So you think this is a good thing, then - right? 

I don't.

However, some kids live in less than idea circumstances. If, as in this case, their is an older sibling with a drug problem in the house and the child asks to be trained in the use of narcan, I'm sort of OK with it. I would prefer that the drug abuser be removed from the home, but sometimes that just doesn't happen.

If it was a parent, the kid needs to be in foster care.

[imawino]

Oct 29, 2015 14:51:17 GMT -5 imawino said:

Oct 29, 2015 14:39:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

Pfft. Stop letting facts get in the way of a good rant.

Can you believe the stupid liberals demanding that toddlers patrol crack houses and administer first aid to the addicts?  Will the madness never end??!! 

Do I think that what is a good thing? You know my statement that you quoted was facetious, right?

Do I think that that children should be forced to look after addicts in their family?  Of course not, I am guessing no one does. 

Do I think that the circumstance highlighted in the article - wherein an 8 year old girl asks her mother to be trained to help her older brother should the need arise, and the mother is a skilled trainer - is not entirely unreasonable?   I don't think it's unreasonable.  If your child comes to you and says "I want to know how to do something that could help someone I love, and you have the skills to teach me to do that safely", I think flat out refusing would be a bad choice.   Mom can also explain that it is not daughters duty to care for her brother while still giving her the skills she is asking for.  The child is not being forced to do anything, she expressed a desire to know something.

ETA - oops, I obviously quoted the wrong thing here. 

[The Captain]

Oct 29, 2015 15:11:52 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 29, 2015 15:07:35 GMT -5 The Captain said:

So you think this is a good thing, then - right? 

I don't.

However, some kids live in less than idea circumstances. If, as in this case, their is an older sibling with a drug problem in the house and the child asks to be trained in the use of narcan, I'm sort of OK with it. I would prefer that the drug abuser be removed from the home, but sometimes that just doesn't happen.

If it was a parent, the kid needs to be in foster care.

If there is anyone in the house with a drug problem to this level do you honestly think they are going to keep the drugs out of the house?

The very presence of the person (and most likely the drugs) puts the child at risk as well.  The older sibling is obviously lacking in judgment.

The only people I knew in HS and college who used hard drugs were introduced to them by their older siblings. Yea, yea - causation and correlation. But is that really the kind of role model you want hanging around? And then make the younger sibling responsible for them?

What the hell kind of parent allows that kind of situation?

No thanks.

[imawino]

Oct 29, 2015 15:11:52 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 29, 2015 15:07:35 GMT -5 The Captain said:

So you think this is a good thing, then - right? 

I don't.

However, some kids live in less than idea circumstances. If, as in this case, their is an older sibling with a drug problem in the house and the child asks to be trained in the use of narcan, I'm sort of OK with it. I would prefer that the drug abuser be removed from the home, but sometimes that just doesn't happen.

If it was a parent, the kid needs to be in foster care.

We actually don't even know that older brother lives in the home.  Just that this kid knows her brother is an addict, and that her mom trains people how to help addicts who overdose.

[grumpyhermit]

Oct 29, 2015 15:24:12 GMT -5 imawino said:

Oct 29, 2015 15:11:52 GMT -5 swamp said:

I don't.

However, some kids live in less than idea circumstances. If, as in this case, their is an older sibling with a drug problem in the house and the child asks to be trained in the use of narcan, I'm sort of OK with it. I would prefer that the drug abuser be removed from the home, but sometimes that just doesn't happen.

If it was a parent, the kid needs to be in foster care.

We actually don't even know that older brother lives in the home.  Just that this kid knows her brother is an addict, and that her mom trains people how to help addicts who overdose.

Exactly. I at first thought the brother was in the house - but after I read the whole article came away with the impression that the kid was responding more to knowing what her mom was doing, and why. Not because it was part of her day to day, but because she's a kid, and kids like to help people they love without judgement.

[imawino]

If mom was a first aid and CPR instructor, and the 8 year old asked to be trained in that because brother had a heart problem, would that be bad? Would we be saying that mom was placing the burden of son's condition on the daughter?

[Jaguar]

NO, absolutely no damn way, leave the children to be children not mini adults.

[mmhmm]

Oct 29, 2015 15:29:52 GMT -5 imawino said:

If mom was a first aid and CPR instructor, and the 8 year old asked to be trained in that because brother had a heart problem, would that be bad? Would we be saying that mom was placing the burden of son's condition on the daughter?

The difference between training a youngster to deliver CPR and training that same youngster to inject Narcan is that the injection of Narcan is an invasive procedure. CPR is not. The injection of any medication involves the risk of side effects that may, or may not be even further life-threatening and can be not only dangerous but frightening for a child. The two actions don't correlate.