Refugees - your thoughts?

[bean29]

news.yahoo.com/gops-carson-says-no-syrian-refugees-us-144507197--politics.html;_ylt=A0LEV1pp4A5Wn9YAbxRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMWZtdTBqBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAwMjhfMQRzZWMDc2M-

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson said the U.S. should bar refugees from war-torn Syria because they are "infiltrated" with Muslim extremists who seek to harm America.





The comments come as Carson has taken an increasingly aggressive stance toward Muslims, and after rival Donald Trump pledged he would support deporting Syrian Muslims from the U.S.

"To bring into this country groups infiltrated with jihadists makes no sense," Carson told about 150 people at the Des Moines Rotary Club. "Why would you do something like that?"

Instead, Carson recommended that the U.S. help settle Syrian refugees in the Middle East, in places such as Turkey. In Carson's view, the U.S. could assist financially but not open its doors. He did not explain how U.S. aid could be steered to innocent refugees without falling into the hands of the extremists he believes are among them

www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/01/donald-trump-says-hed-send-back-syrian-refugees-taken-in-by-us/

KEENE, N.H. – Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said Wednesday that if he's elected president he would send back Syrian refugees taken in by the U.S. because they may be Islamic State (ISIS) militants in disguise.

"I'm putting the people on notice that are coming here from Syria as part of this mass migration," Trump said during an evening rally in Keene, New Hampshire. "If I win, they're going back."

The billionaire businessman said during an hour-long speech, which included several profanities, that he was worried the refugees, who have been fleeing their country after years of civil war, could be ISIS militants looking to infiltrate the U.S.

"They could be ISIS, I don't know," said Trump, who questioned both the number of men in their ranks and why Syrians were fleeing their country instead of staying and fighting.

"This could be one of the great tactical ploys of all time. A 200,000-man army, maybe," he later added. "That could be possible."

Millions of Syrians have been fleeing a civil war that has killed more than 250,000 people since March 2011. As many as 9 million people have been displaced, including more than 4 million who have fled the country, according to the United Nations.


Secretary of State John Kerry announced earlier this month that the U.S. would significantly increase the number of migrants it takes in over the next two years, with 85,000 refugees from around the world allowed in next year and up to 100,000 in 2017.

I can't bring myself to bar entry to all Syrians because there may be some jihadists among them.  My exdh's Mother's family was from Syria and I used to work with a woman who's family was Syrian Orthodox - I even believe there are quite a few Syrian Orthodox (Christians) in my neighborhood.  If I lived in Syria right now, my instinct would be to leave the cournty too if I could.  I certainly would not want to take my chances with ISIS.

[billisonboard]

...
Secretary of State John Kerry announced earlier this month that the U.S. would significantly increase the number of migrants it takes in over the next two years, with 85,000 refugees from around the world allowed in next year and up to 100,000 in 2017.
...

The U.S. will accept 85,000 refugees from around the world next year, up from 70,000, and that total would rise to 100,000 in 2017, ... abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/kerry-us-accept-85000-refugees-2016-100000-2017-33897727

Wanted to clarify it wasn't 0 to 85,000 and they aren't all from Middle Eastern countries.

[happyhoix]

Carson and Trump are fear mongering against Muslims, which is a popular position with the kinds of voters they both want to attract. 

I heard the head of Immigration on radio recently stating that they are limited to accepting about 10,000 per year because they do such a complete background check on people seeking asylum that they can't process more than 10,000 per year without risking also allowing some people in who haven't been properly vetted. It isn't like they bring a boat to port and just off load all the asylum seekers willy-nilly.

Our history as a country was based on allowing asylum seekers to enter when their homelands were being destroyed. One of my own ancestors entered the country in 1670 fleeing religious persecution at home (he was a Quaker). I think we should allow as many Syrian refugees to enter as can be properly screened. If they are Muslim - so what. We let the Catholics in, despite the fact that they stirred up all that shit in England, what with the religious wars.

(Interesting historical fact - the city of Savannah, Georgia, when it was first established, was happy to allow German Lutherans to immigrate, because they were known to be hard working and sober, and allowed a boat full of Jews to immigrate, because they brought a doctor with them  but Oglethorpe drew the line at letting Catholics in, because they were drinkers and rabble rousers and would start fighting with the protestants.



 

[ken a.k.a OMK]

The Muslims fleeing Syria aren't terrorists. There are also Christians fleeing.

[bean29]

Oct 2, 2015 15:21:54 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Carson and Trump are fear mongering against Muslims, which is a popular position with the kinds of voters they both want to attract. 

I heard the head of Immigration on radio recently stating that they are limited to accepting about 10,000 per year because they do such a complete background check on people seeking asylum that they can't process more than 10,000 per year without risking also allowing some people in who haven't been properly vetted. It isn't like they bring a boat to port and just off load all the asylum seekers willy-nilly.

Our history as a country was based on allowing asylum seekers to enter when their homelands were being destroyed. One of my own ancestors entered the country in 1670 fleeing religious persecution at home (he was a Quaker). I think we should allow as many Syrian refugees to enter as can be properly screened. If they are Muslim - so what. We let the Catholics in, despite the fact that they stirred up all that shit in England, what with the religious wars.

(Interesting historical fact - the city of Savannah, Georgia, when it was first established, was happy to allow German Lutherans to immigrate, because they were known to be hard working and sober, and allowed a boat full of Jews to immigrate, because they brought a doctor with them  but Oglethorpe drew the line at letting Catholics in, because they were drinkers and rabble rousers and would start fighting with the protestants.



 

There is a huge difference between 85,000 refugees and 10,000.  If they are going to up the number, they are going to have to add staff or something - but I am sure we ethically and morally should take in more than 10,000/year.

[djAdvocate]

i think we should take however many refugees that we created in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

[Robert not Bobby]

Steve Jobs' biological father was Syrian.

(Thanks Steve, I'm getting a dumb flip phone...it is my style...I don't need to connect to the internet while I'm walking down the street)

I get the idea of potential threats to the homeland without vetting these desperate folks...there will always be desperate people wanting a better future and life for themselves and their families.

I don't think we shut the gates on them...but we should help people stay in their home countries, where they were born and should live.

[Tennesseer]

During the Mariel Boatlift of 1980 when over 125,000 Cuban fled Cuba via boats to Florida, the U.S. was able to screen out Cuban criminals and patients from Cuban mental hospitals (the Cuban government had put them and the criminals on the boats) and send them back to Cuba.

I imagine we could do the same with any of the Middle East refugees.

Mariel Boatlift

[happyhoix]

Oct 2, 2015 16:07:03 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Oct 2, 2015 15:21:54 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Carson and Trump are fear mongering against Muslims, which is a popular position with the kinds of voters they both want to attract. 

I heard the head of Immigration on radio recently stating that they are limited to accepting about 10,000 per year because they do such a complete background check on people seeking asylum that they can't process more than 10,000 per year without risking also allowing some people in who haven't been properly vetted. It isn't like they bring a boat to port and just off load all the asylum seekers willy-nilly.

Our history as a country was based on allowing asylum seekers to enter when their homelands were being destroyed. One of my own ancestors entered the country in 1670 fleeing religious persecution at home (he was a Quaker). I think we should allow as many Syrian refugees to enter as can be properly screened. If they are Muslim - so what. We let the Catholics in, despite the fact that they stirred up all that shit in England, what with the religious wars.

(Interesting historical fact - the city of Savannah, Georgia, when it was first established, was happy to allow German Lutherans to immigrate, because they were known to be hard working and sober, and allowed a boat full of Jews to immigrate, because they brought a doctor with them  but Oglethorpe drew the line at letting Catholics in, because they were drinkers and rabble rousers and would start fighting with the protestants.



 

There is a huge difference between 85,000 refugees and 10,000.  If they are going to up the number, they are going to have to add staff or something - but I am sure we ethically and morally should take in more than 10,000/year.

The lady in the interview said the 10,000 was the limit of how many Syrian refugees they could take in due to how slow the process if of doing the background checks. I'm not sure where the 85,000 immigrants came from, that might be the total number they are willing to accept next year, from all parts of the globe.

I think we should ethically and morally take in more, too, but at the same time, I do think we need to screen refugees carefully, and only take the ones who honestly cannot return home. If they are just wanting to immigrate, they have to wait in line with everyone else wanting to immigrate.

[happyhoix]

Oct 2, 2015 16:14:06 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think we should take however many refugees that we created in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

Not sure they would even want to come here.

I don't think they like us much...

[Robert not Bobby]

I don't think it is a matter of them "not liking us much", as it is what the US military has done to them...but it cuts both ways.

I think the Arabic/Moslim Middle Eastern region should be left alone...they have ancient battles that they fight, insane religious beliefs and people who are convinced to blow themselves and others up to death and kingdom come.

Hopefully, in a few dozen years, everyone will recognize the error of their ways. If they don't, well, more of the same...

I'm on my way out...cheers to anyone who was reading.

Good night.

[thyme4change]

I've been reading Humans of New York, and my heart is breaking.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 2, 2015 16:40:11 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 2, 2015 16:14:06 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think we should take however many refugees that we created in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

Not sure they would even want to come here.

I don't think they like us much...

might make us think twice about f(*king around in that part of the world, eh?

[Deleted]

Oct 2, 2015 20:41:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Oct 2, 2015 16:40:11 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Not sure they would even want to come here.

I don't think they like us much...

might make us think twice about f(*king around in that part of the world, eh?

damned if you do, damned if you don't- my thoughts

[bean29]

Oct 2, 2015 20:40:37 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I've been reading Humans of New York, and my heart is breaking.

What's that? Not at all familiar with it.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 2, 2015 21:45:02 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Oct 2, 2015 20:40:37 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I've been reading Humans of New York, and my heart is breaking.

What's that? Not at all familiar with it.

www.humansofnewyork.com/

[zibazinski]

Send money don't let them in

[djAdvocate]

Oct 2, 2015 20:52:52 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Oct 2, 2015 20:41:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

might make us think twice about f(*king around in that part of the world, eh?

damned if you do, damned if you don't- my thoughts

damned if you do, from where i sit.

[mmhmm]

Oct 2, 2015 14:59:46 GMT -5 bean29 said:

news.yahoo.com/gops-carson-says-no-syrian-refugees-us-144507197--politics.html;_ylt=A0LEV1pp4A5Wn9YAbxRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMWZtdTBqBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAwMjhfMQRzZWMDc2M-

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson said the U.S. should bar refugees from war-torn Syria because they are "infiltrated" with Muslim extremists who seek to harm America.

The comments come as Carson has taken an increasingly aggressive stance toward Muslims, and after rival Donald Trump pledged he would support deporting Syrian Muslims from the U.S.

"To bring into this country groups infiltrated with jihadists makes no sense," Carson told about 150 people at the Des Moines Rotary Club. "Why would you do something like that?"

Instead, Carson recommended that the U.S. help settle Syrian refugees in the Middle East, in places such as Turkey. In Carson's view, the U.S. could assist financially but not open its doors. He did not explain how U.S. aid could be steered to innocent refugees without falling into the hands of the extremists he believes are among them

www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/01/donald-trump-says-hed-send-back-syrian-refugees-taken-in-by-us/

KEENE, N.H. – Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said Wednesday that if he's elected president he would send back Syrian refugees taken in by the U.S. because they may be Islamic State (ISIS) militants in disguise.

"I'm putting the people on notice that are coming here from Syria as part of this mass migration," Trump said during an evening rally in Keene, New Hampshire. "If I win, they're going back."

The billionaire businessman said during an hour-long speech, which included several profanities, that he was worried the refugees, who have been fleeing their country after years of civil war, could be ISIS militants looking to infiltrate the U.S.

"They could be ISIS, I don't know," said Trump, who questioned both the number of men in their ranks and why Syrians were fleeing their country instead of staying and fighting.

"This could be one of the great tactical ploys of all time. A 200,000-man army, maybe," he later added. "That could be possible."

Millions of Syrians have been fleeing a civil war that has killed more than 250,000 people since March 2011. As many as 9 million people have been displaced, including more than 4 million who have fled the country, according to the United Nations.


Secretary of State John Kerry announced earlier this month that the U.S. would significantly increase the number of migrants it takes in over the next two years, with 85,000 refugees from around the world allowed in next year and up to 100,000 in 2017.

I can't bring myself to bar entry to all Syrians because there may be some jihadists among them.  My exdh's Mother's family was from Syria and I used to work with a woman who's family was Syrian Orthodox - I even believe there are quite a few Syrian Orthodox (Christians) in my neighborhood.  If I lived in Syria right now, my instinct would be to leave the cournty too if I could.  I certainly would not want to take my chances with ISIS.

I'd want to ask how resettling these immigrants (infiltrated with jihadists as they are, according to those espousing this idea) in other Middle Eastern countries is going to help the situation. Now, you've got them in a new country in which they can wreak havoc. Wonderful idea. It's like we don't have enough problems going in that part of the world already. We need to help start more? That might sound great as a partisan sound-bite but it still doesn't make a lick o' sense!

[mmhmm]

Oct 3, 2015 15:53:34 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Send money don't let them in

When is the last time you saw throwing money at a situation and doing nothing else constructive work, zib?

[thyme4change]

I would think most of the refugees are not dangerous people - just normal people who got in the middle of a shit-show.  I wonder all the time how I would feel if I had to run away in the middle of the night with nothing but the clothes on my back, just to keep my kids alive.  How I would feel if I had to pay smugglers large sums of money to help me escape, even though I don't trust them and know they don't care about me or my family.  How would I feel if I had to walk a hundred miles with no food or water - just to be told that I am the problem, and be treated with stupidity and fear.  

[zibazinski]

Oct 3, 2015 18:39:13 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 3, 2015 15:53:34 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Send money don't let them in

When is the last time you saw throwing money at a situation and doing nothing else constructive work, zib?

Working for Japan. Hey, even in this country we throw money at problems and it solves nothing. What else is new? At least we won't be overrun by more mouths to feed. Mouths that'll murder us as soon as they can. They don't like Finland. Whine. Seems like they feel very entitled. They are the problems of the Middle East and those countries need to deal with them. Grown men fleeing instead of fighting. Yup, that's what we want to let in here.

[zibazinski]

Oct 3, 2015 18:38:24 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Oct 2, 2015 14:59:46 GMT -5 bean29 said:

news.yahoo.com/gops-carson-says-no-syrian-refugees-us-144507197--politics.html;_ylt=A0LEV1pp4A5Wn9YAbxRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMWZtdTBqBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAwMjhfMQRzZWMDc2M-

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson said the U.S. should bar refugees from war-torn Syria because they are "infiltrated" with Muslim extremists who seek to harm America.

The comments come as Carson has taken an increasingly aggressive stance toward Muslims, and after rival Donald Trump pledged he would support deporting Syrian Muslims from the U.S.

"To bring into this country groups infiltrated with jihadists makes no sense," Carson told about 150 people at the Des Moines Rotary Club. "Why would you do something like that?"

Instead, Carson recommended that the U.S. help settle Syrian refugees in the Middle East, in places such as Turkey. In Carson's view, the U.S. could assist financially but not open its doors. He did not explain how U.S. aid could be steered to innocent refugees without falling into the hands of the extremists he believes are among them

www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/01/donald-trump-says-hed-send-back-syrian-refugees-taken-in-by-us/

KEENE, N.H. – Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said Wednesday that if he's elected president he would send back Syrian refugees taken in by the U.S. because they may be Islamic State (ISIS) militants in disguise.

"I'm putting the people on notice that are coming here from Syria as part of this mass migration," Trump said during an evening rally in Keene, New Hampshire. "If I win, they're going back."

The billionaire businessman said during an hour-long speech, which included several profanities, that he was worried the refugees, who have been fleeing their country after years of civil war, could be ISIS militants looking to infiltrate the U.S.

"They could be ISIS, I don't know," said Trump, who questioned both the number of men in their ranks and why Syrians were fleeing their country instead of staying and fighting.

"This could be one of the great tactical ploys of all time. A 200,000-man army, maybe," he later added. "That could be possible."

Millions of Syrians have been fleeing a civil war that has killed more than 250,000 people since March 2011. As many as 9 million people have been displaced, including more than 4 million who have fled the country, according to the United Nations.


Secretary of State John Kerry announced earlier this month that the U.S. would significantly increase the number of migrants it takes in over the next two years, with 85,000 refugees from around the world allowed in next year and up to 100,000 in 2017.

I can't bring myself to bar entry to all Syrians because there may be some jihadists among them.  My exdh's Mother's family was from Syria and I used to work with a woman who's family was Syrian Orthodox - I even believe there are quite a few Syrian Orthodox (Christians) in my neighborhood.  If I lived in Syria right now, my instinct would be to leave the cournty too if I could.  I certainly would not want to take my chances with ISIS.

I'd want to ask how resettling these immigrants (infiltrated with jihadists as they are, according to those espousing this idea) in other Middle Eastern countries is going to help the situation. Now, you've got them in a new country in which they can wreak havoc. Wonderful idea. It's like we don't have enough problems going in that part of the world already. We need to help start more? That might sound great as a partisan sound-bite but it still doesn't make a lick o' sense!

Better they wreak havoc in those countries than ours. We have enough useless people already to care for. Grown men ought to be fighting for their country.

[mmhmm]

Not all those people are grown men, zib. Many are women and children. Their homes have been destroyed. There's been death all around them, some of it caused by us, or the Russians, or some other bunch that feels the need to get involved. I can't imagine what that must be like. I don't even want to try.

[weltschmerz]

Oct 4, 2015 0:37:19 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Not all those people are grown men, zib. Many are women and children. Their homes have been destroyed. There's been death all around them, some of it caused by us, or the Russians, or some other bunch that feels the need to get involved. I can't imagine what that must be like. I don't even want to try.

Many are not refugees at all, but economic migrants country-shopping. Many have destroyed their papers, and there's a brisk business in fake Syrian passports.

They don't like Uruguay, they don't like Macedonia, they don't like Finland because it's too cold and there aren't enough restaurants. I spoke to man from Finland today who said they're complaining about the food ("I wouldn't feed it to a dog"), complaining about having to share apartments (they want their own houses).

These just don't sound like desperate people fleeing war to me.

---------

The vast majority are from Syria but far from all of have fled directly from the war-torn country. Police have discovered that many traveled to Russia as long as five to seven years ago, even before the civil war broke out.

“We’re seeing a tendency that those coming over the border at Storskog have had residence permission in other countries than Syria,” Tor Espen Haga of UDI’s police administrative arm, Politiets utlendingsenhet, told NRK.

One refugee, who asked not to be identified, confirmed to NRK that he had lived for several years in Russia and held both a work and student visa. A lack of jobs and “difficult conditions” in Russia, however, prompted him to seek a better life in Norway.

www.newsinenglish.no/2015/10/01/refugees-face-return-to-russia/

[weltschmerz]

Hundreds of predominantly Iraqi migrants who have travelled through Europe to reach Finland are turning back, saying they don't want to stay in the sparsely-populated country on Europe's northern frontier because it's too cold and boring.

Migrants have in recent weeks been crossing back into Sweden at the Haparanda-Tornio border just an hour's drive south of the Arctic Circle, and Finnish authorities have seen a rise in the number of cancelled asylum applications.

"You can tell the world I hate Finland. It's too cold, there's no tea, no restaurants, no bars, nobody on the streets, only cars," 22-year-old Muhammed told AFP in Tornio, as the mercury struggled to inch above 10 degrees Celsius (50 Fahrenheit) on a recent blustery grey day.

He had already travelled from Tornio to the capital Helsinki almost 750 kilometres (465 miles) south, and then back up to the Tornio border again to return to Sweden.

Another group of around 15 Iraqi refugees waiting at the bus station that Tornio shares with its Swedish twin town Haparanda also said they wanted to go back to southern Sweden.

"Finland is no good," the men echoed each other.

Read more at globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/09/refugees-shop-for-best-handouts-and.html#DwTU0rU2W04jJ9Gm.99

They want a nice warm climate with a lively social scene.

Desperate refugees? Not so much.

[mmhmm]

I'm sure that's true for some. It usually is when a catastrophe makes it possible for manipulators to manipulate. That's why it's necessary for due diligence to be applied when processing these immigrants. Provide them with shelter, food, and warmth while they wait to be processed (Ellis Island, anyone?) and if that's not suitable, if I were Finland I'd offer them a flight back to the Syrian border. I do feel, however, it ain't good to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[weltschmerz]

How do you process them and vet them?  They're using fake IDs with their pictures on them, or a relative who looks similar to them. We don't have their DNA or even fingerprints on file and we can't get any information from a destroyed Syria. We only have their word as to who they are, and frankly, their word doesn't mean much to me.

Remember the Syrian guy who blamed Canada and said it's because of Canada rejecting his refugee application that his little boy died? Turns out he never applied. His family never applied for him. It was all a lie.

news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/chris-alexander-suspends-campaign-after-news-that-canada-rejected-drowned-boys-refugee-application

[weltschmerz]

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/08/growing-concern-over-trade-in-fake-and-stolen-syrian-passports

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34150408

[zibazinski]

I'd look at women with children only to begin with. But no welfare of any kind and they cannot breed more children. Any hint of problems by them or their brood, OUT they all go. Adult males? No way, no how. They're trouble looking for someplace to happen.