neighborhood lawsuit

[Ombud]

abc7news.com/news/sunnyvale-neighbors-sue-parents-of-boy-with-autism/994898/

Monday, September 21, 2015 12:44PM

SUNNYVALE, Calif. (KGO) --

A lawsuit filed by neighbors in Sunnyvale against the parents of an autistic boy goes to court on Tuesday.

They claim the 11-year-old's parents didn't do enough to control their son and prevent him from hurting their young children.

The plaintiffs are seeking unspecified damages.

Should parents of disabled children be held to the same standard as other parents despite the difficulty of curtailing their behavior?

[Deleted]

Its horribly sad. But if the other children are actually being hurt, then he has to be stopped. If his behavior is physically dangerous and cannot be stopped, he needs to be removed from the area. It's hard. But it is also not fair for other children to be in danger.

[andi9899]

Absolutely. Your kid is your responsibility. And the other parents have the right to defend their own. I think a law suit is a bit much. But at the very least this kid should have been supervised better. You can't expect someone of limited capacity to be able to interact with others the same way as someone who isn't special needs. These parents should have known that he needed special attention and provided it.

[mmhmm]

It's hard to tell from the little information given in the linked article what was actually going on and if anyone was actually hurt. According to the article, the family with the autistic child has moved away. I'm having a little trouble understanding why it would be deemed necessary to continue with the lawsuit when the problem is no longer there.

[Ombud]

Ordered to mediation

[mmhmm]

Sept 22, 2015 20:10:58 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Ordered to mediation

Sounds like a good idea. Surely, there's a better way to work this out; especially, since the family being sued isn't even in the neighborhood anymore.

[marvholly]

I think it is HORRIBLE that this ended up w/a law suit. However, ALL parents involved are responsible.  Parents of the challenged boy to monitor & control his behavior.  Parents of the other kids to watch over THEIR kids and remove them if things start to go bad.

[Ombud]

California Neighbors Filed Lawsuit Over Boy With Autism’s ‘Aggression’

By ABC NEWS

Sep 21, 2015, 3:18 PM ET
,

ABCNews

A California cul-de-sac is embroiled in a civil lawsuit regarding a boy with autism who neighbors say is a public nuisance.

"For us this case is not really about autism,” said Robert Flowers, one of plaintiffs. “It's about the safety of our children. They were attacked on multiple occasions."

The neighbors in Sunnyvale who filed the lawsuit say they don't blame the now 11-year-old boy. They allege the problem is his parents, who they say didn't do enough to control their son and prevent him from hurting other young children in the neighborhood.

"They have been slapped, hit, kicked, basically terrorized," said Bindu Pothen, another plaintiff.

Flowers said, "My son on his 4th birthday was riding his bike, and the child threw him to the ground, grabbed with both hands his hair and shook him violently."

The plaintiffs are seeking unspecified damages for the boy's behavior, as well as an injunction requiring his parents to “prevent future occurrences of the same.”

While police reports were not immediately available to support these claims, the plaintiffs also say they are worried their property values could be affected if they ever decide to sell their homes.

"When there is unchecked violence in a neighborhood,” neighbor Kumaran Santhanam said, “it's something that we have to disclose when we sell or rent our home."

Meanwhile, the family of the boy at the center of the suit is no longer living in the home. They released a statement to ABC News, saying "we are ... very disappointed by the non-factual and deeply manipulative falsehoods that have been spread ... which we feel amounts to a modern-day witch-hunt against a small disabled child and his family."

Autism advocates worry this could set a disturbing precedent for families of children with autism.

"I would hope that the court doesn't rule against the family because that just creates another barrier. That is not the solution," said Ronald Hampton, the president of the District of Columbia Autism Society.

The neighbors say they filed the lawsuit as a last resort and won't back down because the parents who still own the home could move back at any time. They also claim the parents never apologized or took responsibility for the attacks. They are suing for damages for alleged past abuse and assurances that the boy will be better supervised in the future in an attempt to keep other children safe.

abcnews.go.com/US/california-neighbors-file-lawsuit-boy-autism-declared-public/story?id=33910884

better link

[zibazinski]

I am so freakung glad I'm getting out of the LL business.

[busymom]

This is a tough one. (Yes, I have a child with autism.) The problem is, these kids often don't understand the relationship between actions & consequences, therefore standard punishments have little to no effect on bad behaviors. Add in that some kids are VERY impulsive (will be walking nicely with you, & the next minute take off at a full run, for example), and they can be very difficult to supervise.

In this situation, they need to hire a behavioral therapist to help them change some of those behaviors. It won't change all of the behaviors, but hopefully it'll mold this child to make more positive choices.

And, don't rip into the parents too hard. Yes, some don't use all of the therapy options available, but are just plain are exhausted by the end of each day. Then, they get to get up & watch and prevent behaviors all of the next day. There is no vacation time from a special needs child.

By the way, I feel blessed with my kid. He is impulsive, but is mostly well-intentioned in everyday interactions with others. (And yes, I've met mothers who have the "other kind" of kids who are almost totally out of control. Destroying houses, hitting, angry, etc. Then, I go home and thank God that I've got the kid that I have.)

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2015 19:52:28 GMT -5 Ombud said:

abc7news.com/news/sunnyvale-neighbors-sue-parents-of-boy-with-autism/994898/

Monday, September 21, 2015 12:44PM

SUNNYVALE, Calif. (KGO) --

A lawsuit filed by neighbors in Sunnyvale against the parents of an autistic boy goes to court on Tuesday.

They claim the 11-year-old's parents didn't do enough to control their son and prevent him from hurting their young children.

The plaintiffs are seeking unspecified damages.

Should parents of disabled children be held to the same standard as other parents despite the difficulty of curtailing their behavior?

Without a doubt.  Your rights end where other people's rights begin.  It is unfortunate, and unfair in the cosmic sense- but in the here and now where we all live, if you have a child that is a threat to the safety of other children, you need to step it up and get between your child and other people's children.

[lynnerself]

I agree that parents have a right to protect their children.
But the family has moved away, the children are no longer in danger. And how can they still be worried about their property values?
Can they prove any damages or medical bills? I don't understand the law suit at this point.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 23, 2015 21:58:29 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

I agree that parents have a right to protect their children.
But the family has moved away, the children are no longer in danger. And how can they still be worried about their property values?
Can they prove any damages or medical bills? I don't understand the law suit at this point.

I did read the family is not now living in the house. But I also read the family has not sold their home and the neighbors are afraid they will move back into the house and neighborhood.

[Ryan]

I see it from both perspectives.  It would be tough to parent a child with autism, but it's not fair to the other kids/parents to have to worry about their kid being attacked by someone that can act so impulsively.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2015 20:10:58 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Ordered to mediation

To what end?  This isn't an incident, it's multiple incidents.  

Full disclosure: I'm dealing with a similar issue.  We have invested close to $3,000 repairing vandalism to our home by a 'special needs' child whose parents don't seem to understand that this cannot go on.  We are NOT looking for compensation dating back over the last year, but we did inform them that future vandalism was to be repaired by our contractor, and we expected them to sign the work authorization / contract and pay the bill.  They were incensed.  I showed them previous invoices and HD video from our security system of their son "playing" in between our house and a neighboring house-- throwing rocks from the landscaped area at our screened in porch, and driving a screwdriver with a hammer into the stucco poking numerous holes.  I then advised them that if they fail to supervise him, and refuse to take responsibility, that we WILL go back and ask for the full amount, plus damages, and legal fees in court. We have an attorney on retainer- no skin of our noses.

That being said, this sounds like a similar situation.  I have great empathy for people, and fortunately the ability to pay without having to demand it to this point.  However, if my kids started getting physically hurt like this, then more stringent measures would have to be taken. 

Why would someone that clearly doesn't get it after the first, after the second, after the third incident-- finally get it in a mediation?  Mediation is where people go that don't have a leg to stand on to appeal to something other than reason.  I hope these people also filed a liability claim against the homeowner's insurance of these folks- that would be step one for me if someone in my family got hurt like this.  I'll fix my stuff- it's just stuff.  You hurt family members and I promise your autistic ass that you will actually make the connection between your actions and consequences-- I will ensure the proper synapses fire, and you will not miss the point or forget. The right to self defense is not suspended due to diminished capacity of the assailant.

[haapai]

This story has the odor of "ripped from court filings" about it.  If you read carefully, it's a bit terrifying how little original reporting may have actually been done.  The quotes attributed to a neighbor could have been ripped from court filings and getting photos of the houses is incredibly cheap and easy. 

Given the level of reporting that I suspect went into this story, I will defer judgement.  

[Tennesseer]

Below is a link to a local (Sunnyvale/San Francisco) new story and video about this case.


Judge Urges Settlement For Neighbors Suing Family Of Autistic Boy For Being ‘Public Nuisance’

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 23, 2015 22:09:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

 I'll fix my stuff- it's just stuff.  You hurt family members and I promise your autistic ass that you will actually make the connection between your actions and consequences-- I will ensure the proper synapses fire, and you will not miss the point or forget. The right to self defense is not suspended due to diminished capacity of the assailant.

Yes, because having an irate adult from the neighborhood 'talk' to an autistic child is going to completely rewire said child's brain. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 24, 2015 7:40:29 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sept 23, 2015 22:09:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

 I'll fix my stuff- it's just stuff.  You hurt family members and I promise your autistic ass that you will actually make the connection between your actions and consequences-- I will ensure the proper synapses fire, and you will not miss the point or forget. The right to self defense is not suspended due to diminished capacity of the assailant.

Yes, because having an irate adult from the neighborhood 'talk' to an autistic child is going to completely rewire said child's brain. 

I will admit that the very mention of this topic is upsetting to me.  And it's not the kid that's bothering me. It is his idiotic parents to whom we have already given a gift of $3,000 who are completely ungrateful for the space they've been given to get their shit together.  I think I would absolutely lose my shit if this kid knocked my kid off their bike, grabbed them by the hair and started shaking them violently.  And color me skeptical that (he has a asperger's) he wouldn't connect the dots between his actions and consequences if he were to be physically removed from atop my child and accidentally dropped (thrown) on his ass on the sidewalk in an effort to defend my child from his violent attack.  He's a very bright kid, quite capable of reasoning, and he's got everyone's number.  He has very clearly, and beyond even the slightest flicker of a doubt, worked out that he's "special" and as a result he can do anything he pleases and nothing is going to happen to him.  He doesn't like us, and he has targeted us. He threw a stick at my car this morning as I drove by.  That tells me he's more than capable of reasoning. All that needs to happen to the little shit is that when he does things like this, they result in immediate and painful stimuli and he, like every other ordinary animal on earth will stop touching the hot stove.

[zibazinski]

I've taught these kids and Aspbergers as well. I never had a violent one, thank GOD, so don't know if it's something they grow into as I taught them in elementary. Aspbergers in particular just think very differently. They are somewhat brilliant, seriously, but the things they say-wow. Smart parents don't even have a pet in the home because the " cause and effect" just isn't there a lot of the time. Think 2 years old in reasoning skills. You can remind them a billion times and two seconds later, nope, don't remember. Autistic is all over the spectrum. I had some perfectly normal then just simply zone out into their own world. But never one that was hurtful to others. That's just sad for all concerned.

[Ombud]

When DS was growing up he was unable to control his emotions. And he was physical. I attribute it to abuse b4 I adopted him. Nevertheless, he was abusive, would jump on my car if he didn't want me to leave, terrorized his brother & sister, was well known to PD. Took a while b4 he learned that racing up and down the mountain behind our house calmed him down. But he never took his aggression out on anyone other than us.

Fast forward 2 decades & he's a well respected accountant & landlord making good money with a backyard farm / garage filled with wood & projects to be done when he needs to burn off aggressive moods, still takes off running up and down the same mountain.

It was MY responsibility to keep that aggression away from other kids and find his channel. And yes, I restrained him more then a few times when he was on top of his siblings

I suck at motherhood -- momma bear syndrome

[busymom]

I agree if your child is getting assaulted you have to intervene & get your child to safety.  However, if you "smack" an autistic kid, even if you tell them why, they won't remember 2 minutes later what they did wrong.  But, they WILL (maybe) remember that the person who smacked them is a mean person. 

The best way I can describe an autistic child, is they have the impulsive nature of a 2-3 year old child, & the memory of consequences of an elderly person with dementia.  Roll that into an adult, & you can maybe understand why getting a behavior therapist to help control or channel bad behaviors early, once the bad behavior begins, is SO important.

[Ombud]

Bc of what's happened in a Chicago school I'm wondering do they mainstream severely disabled kids? How can a teacher be expected to teach extremely bright, average, a little behind, and mentally challenged - - - all 35 to 38 of them all at once?

[busymom]

In our school district, the disabled kids ARE mainstreamed.  Paras support the student(s) in the classroom setting.  The only exception to the rule are the kids that are violent, or those that frequently cause disturbances. There is a separate school building that works with those kids.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 25, 2015 9:07:46 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Bc of what's happened in a Chicago school I'm wondering do they mainstream severely disabled kids? How can a teacher be expected to teach extremely bright, average, a little behind, and mentally challenged - - - all 35 to 38 of them all at once?

Here they are. 

And you're forgetting to add the ESL kids who's previous teachers labeled them dumb/stupid/etc. and did damn little to help them.  My SIL gets all oft than.  And then there's the parents...

[Ombud]

Yeah. Based on GS2's name they put him into a Spanish kindergarten. ... and he only spoke English with a few Hebrew words

[fishy999]

Sept 23, 2015 22:09:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 22, 2015 20:10:58 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Ordered to mediation

Why would someone that clearly doesn't get it after the first, after the second, after the third incident-- finally get it in a mediation?  Mediation is where people go that don't have a leg to stand on to appeal to something other than reason.  I hope these people also filed a liability claim against the homeowner's insurance of these folks- that would be step one for me if someone in my family got hurt like this.  I'll fix my stuff- it's just stuff.  You hurt family members and I promise your autistic ass that you will actually make the connection between your actions and consequences-- I will ensure the proper synapses fire, and you will not miss the point or forget. The right to self defense is not suspended due to diminished capacity of the assailant.

It is not.  Mediation is a process that benefits the wealthy over the poor- or in other circumstances a company versus an individual.  It is a process 'agreed to' so as to avoid court, and of course juries and peers.  

And a warning to you as offensive as your 'shoot the autistic' nazi ass position you take, you are wrong Bubba.  I'd rather have an autistic child as a neighbor than someone like you.  You actively choose to be what you are.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 25, 2015 18:12:58 GMT -5 fishy999 said:

Sept 23, 2015 22:09:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Why would someone that clearly doesn't get it after the first, after the second, after the third incident-- finally get it in a mediation?  Mediation is where people go that don't have a leg to stand on to appeal to something other than reason.  I hope these people also filed a liability claim against the homeowner's insurance of these folks- that would be step one for me if someone in my family got hurt like this.  I'll fix my stuff- it's just stuff.  You hurt family members and I promise your autistic ass that you will actually make the connection between your actions and consequences-- I will ensure the proper synapses fire, and you will not miss the point or forget. The right to self defense is not suspended due to diminished capacity of the assailant.

It is not.  Mediation is a process that benefits the wealthy over the poor- or in other circumstances a company versus an individual.  It is a process 'agreed to' so as to avoid court, and of course juries and peers.  

And a warning to you as offensive as your 'shoot the autistic' nazi ass position you take, you are wrong Bubba.  I'd rather have an autistic child as a neighbor than someone like you.  You actively choose to be what you are.

Did I at any point say that shooting a child would be warranted? The kid is destructive, and he's an asshole- and let's be clear: just because he's autistic doesn't mean he's not an asshole. However, to this point I don't see him becoming violent like the child in the OP.

I'd be fine with the asperger's kid as our neighbor. It's his idiot parents I have a problem with.  And I would take measures to protect my kids from a violent outburst- absolutely.  I make no apologies for that.  I don't believe shooting an 11 year old child would be necessary. 

However, since you bring up the prospect of shooting kids-- if the kid's parents in the OP cared for him at all, that possibility- that someone might not respond so graciously as with a lawsuit- to their child's propensity to commit assault and battery- should probably be considered.  I know if I had a bully of a kid, I would be very concerned for his well being.  Kids don't necessarily snap like in "A Christmas Story" these days- they shoot each other.  And living in Florida, you have to be very careful that your kids are not trespassing and that they keep their hands to themselves, because you never know if a guy like me will pull them off of their kids in an altercation and drop them on their ass-- or if they might do something worse.  Because here in Florida, we do not lock people up for defending life and property because we understand that the foundation for the civil society is an absolute respect for people's rights.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 24, 2015 11:25:00 GMT -5 busymom said:

I agree if your child is getting assaulted you have to intervene & get your child to safety.  However, if you "smack" an autistic kid, even if you tell them why, they won't remember 2 minutes later what they did wrong.  But, they WILL (maybe) remember that the person who smacked them is a mean person. 

The best way I can describe an autistic child, is they have the impulsive nature of a 2-3 year old child, & the memory of consequences of an elderly person with dementia.  Roll that into an adult, & you can maybe understand why getting a behavior therapist to help control or channel bad behaviors early, once the bad behavior begins, is SO important.

I think each case is different.  I realize asperger's is on the autism spectrum, but I swear to you the kid in my neighborhood has everyone's number.  Everything he does, he does with a twinkle in his eye- he knows.  You can see him pushing boundaries, and inwardly screaming at people- in particular his parents- to STOP HIM.  They will not.  He's their poor little special needs child and he is to be given whatever space he needs to destroy, and he is never to face consequences for his actions- he is always to be apologized for, and everything he does is to be explained away as the result of his aspergers and/or the timing of his medications.  It's just frustrating to watch, because he is missing out on a lot of good things in life because he is not getting the coaching and direction he needs to help him.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 24, 2015 11:06:56 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

The neighbors suing have a valid complaint in my opinion. Not sure if our legal system is set up to correct it, but essentially this kid has committed assault numerous times. They could have called the police each time, tried to pursue charges, and gotten a restraining order. If he's totally incapable of controlling himself he's fairly similar to an aggressive dog and it's absolutely the owners responsibility to keep said dog contained. I realize this is a violent kid not a violent animal, but it still seems like it's the parents responsibility to keep him supervised or on their property since he's a threat to other children in the neighborhood.

I also agree with Paul. If your kid physically assaults my kid they aren't getting bruises and scratches from my kid fighting back, they're getting them from me. I wouldn't beat the crap out of them, but I would physically get them off my kid in an expedious manner and that process won't be gentle. I've seen some pretty big 11 year olds, but none that I couldn't tackle and restrain.

That's really all I meant to imply. How we got to shooting kids with autism is someone is losing the argument.