The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 27, 2015 12:08:04 GMT -5
Thanks to the Ashley Madison Hack thread for the inspiration behind this. There were a few references to possibly looking at porn or going to strip clubs as being considered cheating. Interesting. So, in the context of a monogamous relationship - what is considered cheating? In my mind: If your spouse has knowledge of, and consents to the actions (ie not hurt by them) then it's not cheating if you engage in such activity. In my relationship I have the same expectations for myself as I do for DH (yes I know a couple where the dude thinks it's ok for him to do things, but the missus isn't ). 1. The biggie - infidelity - oh hell no! The only quicker way to end our marriage is to kill me. Which you may want to do if you're thinking about this. Cause you will only be able to cheat on me once, guaranteed. 2. No strip clubs. By that I mean full nudity. Exotic dancing - mmmaybe? We'd have to talk. 3. No porn mags. They're just tasteless and tacky and I won't have them in my house. 4. Erotica? Suprisingly no problem with this as long as it's done tastefully. For years DH got Maxium (is it still around?) for the "articles" . My friends were a bit surprised by this considering how they (think) they know me. But guys are visual creatures and you don't go blind when you get married. Again, as long as it's done tastefully I have no problem. I had to note the Maxium subscription got dropped like a hot potato once DD was born. I called DH out on his hypocrisy and he owned it. Sure it's ok for him to look at other women posing that way but no dude better ever think about his little girl like that!
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 12:23:25 GMT -5
To me it's not cheating until you have to lie about it, If I lie to my wife about staying at work late and instead go out to a bar with a buddy, is that cheating?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 12:31:14 GMT -5
See the last sentence of my previous post. so yes?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 12:34:56 GMT -5
I agree that any behavior in which you engage that you don't want to share with your spouse (because you're afraid of the reaction) is cheating.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 12:36:06 GMT -5
To me it's not cheating until you have to lie about it, If I lie to my wife about staying at work late and instead go out to a bar with a buddy, is that cheating? So why do you feel compelled to lie to your spouse about going out for drinks with a friend after work?
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Aug 27, 2015 12:37:41 GMT -5
If you have to lie about it to your significant other, then you're cheating.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 12:40:10 GMT -5
If I lie to my wife about staying at work late and instead go out to a bar with a buddy, is that cheating? So why do you feel compelled to lie to your spouse about going out for drinks with a friend after work? Is it cheating if I do?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 12:40:36 GMT -5
For me cheating requires sexual contact. I have no problem with porn or strip clubs. If DH lies to me about anything, I would be mad because he lied.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 12:41:09 GMT -5
Yep. You're emotionally cheating on your spouse with your bromance. Don't worry though, women for some reason expect a dude to lie to them about going to the bar with friends at least occasionally. I doubt she would leave you over it. If said bromance turns into physical cheating though you're toast. She'll be out for blood. what if it is just over the pants stuff?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 27, 2015 12:42:34 GMT -5
Huh. I guess I put lying and cheating in two different (but still undesirable) categories.
I wouldn't consider DH lying about going out for drinks with buddies as cheating. Now lying about going out for drinks with a chick that's more than a friend? Yea - that's cheating.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 27, 2015 12:43:42 GMT -5
...and let's remember PG-13 peeps!!! (says the one who started the tread )
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 12:44:19 GMT -5
If you have to lie about it to your significant other, then you're cheating. What if I lie to my wife about giving my kid a bath, but I really just put them to bed dirty? Is that cheating?
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Aug 27, 2015 12:45:02 GMT -5
If you have to lie about it to your significant other, then you're cheating. What if I lie to my wife about giving my kid a bath, but I really just put them to bed dirty? Is that cheating? I believe the context here doesn't include child bathing.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 12:45:39 GMT -5
So why do you feel compelled to lie to your spouse about going out for drinks with a friend after work? Is it cheating if I do? Well as far as I'm concerned, if you feel compelled to lie to your spouse or SO about it, it might be. If you are withholding facts about your relationship with another person for fear of disappointment, disapproval or wrath from your Other, it might be. If you spouse KNEW and approved, it wouldn't be cheating, right?
If you are lying about going out drinking because you have an alcohol problem and your spouse knows you have a problem and disapproves - you are cheating on the relationship because you are breaking trust with your SO. But clearly you are not cheating sexually (unless you are also on the low-down with your "buddy").
And of course as always, YMMV.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 27, 2015 12:49:15 GMT -5
If you have to lie about it to your significant other, then you're cheating. What if I lie to my wife about giving my kid a bath, but I really just put them to bed dirty? Is that cheating? no, but she will figure it out from the towel count. just save yourself the hassle and do it.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 12:49:17 GMT -5
What if I lie to my wife about giving my kid a bath, but I really just put them to bed dirty? Is that cheating? I believe the context here doesn't include child bathing. We are not talking here about the minutiae of daily life. We are talking about engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 12:51:04 GMT -5
I believe the context here doesn't include child bathing. We are not talking here about the minutiae of daily life. We are talking about engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment.
i disagree. We are defining cheating. Gotta start somewhere. "engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment." and that is a good start. But what does engaging in a potentially intimate relationship mean?
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Aug 27, 2015 12:55:06 GMT -5
We are not talking here about the minutiae of daily life. We are talking about engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment.
i disagree. We are defining cheating. Gotta start somewhere. "engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment." and that is a good start. But what does engaging in a potentially intimate relationship mean? Well I suppose if the wife would leave you for the egregious offense of lying about the bath, then maybe it is cheating. lol
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 12:57:43 GMT -5
We are not talking here about the minutiae of daily life. We are talking about engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment.
i disagree. We are defining cheating. Gotta start somewhere. "engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment." and that is a good start. But what does engaging in a potentially intimate relationship mean? Dating someone else while you are married or otherwise pledged to another.
Going to a strip club with the intent of doing more than just looking.
Flirting with someone with the intent of taking it further.
These are off the top of my head. Maybe others could give more examples.
I could care less how many girlie mags DH looks at. I don't even care if he goes to a club with the boys as long as he keeps his hands (and other body parts) to himself. A wise woman once told me that she didn't care how hubby got hungry, as long as he ate at home .
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 12:59:32 GMT -5
i disagree. We are defining cheating. Gotta start somewhere. "engaging in an intimate or potentially intimate relationship with another person and keeping it from your spouse or SO to whom you have made a commitment." and that is a good start. But what does engaging in a potentially intimate relationship mean? Dating someone else while you are married or otherwise pledged to another.
Going to a strip club with the intent of doing more than just looking.
Flirting with someone with the intent of taking it further.
These are off the top of my head. Maybe others could give more examples.
I could care less how many girlie mags DH looks at. I don't even care if he goes to a club with the boys as long as he keeps his hands (and other body parts) to himself. A wise woman once told me that she didn't care how hubby got hungry, as long as he ate at home .
how do you know that your husband's intent at a strip club isn't to do more, though? If is the intent that makes it cheating then how do you know if he is cheating or not?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 27, 2015 13:02:32 GMT -5
I agree. I have a couple of friends who have open or semi-open marriages -- they have strict ground rules (no bringing people home, use protection, etc.) and it seems to work for them. Although they're sleeping with other people, I wouldn't define that as "cheating" since that word implies sneakiness or deception, and they're both fine with the arrangement and bound by the same rules.
And I think this goes for the porn and strip clubs examples as well. If your spouse knows (or suspects) you look at porn and doesn't care -- knock yourself out. If you know your spouse doesn't want you to look at porn, and you do anyway, that's probably a form of infidelity. If you're going out after work with a group of coworkers, and you list everyone who's going to your spouse but leave out the hot new coworker... you're on a slippery slope.*
I have a pretty laissez-faire attitude about cheating, but that's because DH is incapable of any type of deception (I know, I know, all the jilted spouses say that...) If I was with someone who was at least a passable liar, I'd have stronger opinions.
*There are some people who lie or withhold information because their spouses are crazily jealous of any interaction with the opposite gender -- I wouldn't say that type of withholding of information is cheating, but probably is a sign that you either need counseling or an exit plan.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 13:06:01 GMT -5
Dating someone else while you are married or otherwise pledged to another.
Going to a strip club with the intent of doing more than just looking.
Flirting with someone with the intent of taking it further.
These are off the top of my head. Maybe others could give more examples.
I could care less how many girlie mags DH looks at. I don't even care if he goes to a club with the boys as long as he keeps his hands (and other body parts) to himself. A wise woman once told me that she didn't care how hubby got hungry, as long as he ate at home .
how do you know that your husband's intent at a strip club isn't to do more, though? If is the intent that makes it cheating then how do you know if he is cheating or not? Well "intent" is where the whole thing gets fuzzy and messy, right? That is different for every person and every couple and I don't feel qualified to lay down rules and absolutes for other people. I'm only talking about how I see things.
FWIW - DH does not drink (for medical reasons - he has severe hypoglycemia) and has only gone to strip clubs for bachelor parties. I'm not worried about him. He knows the only reason I'm married to him is for the personal satisfaction of a loving relationship. I don't need money, protection or status from a man - I can give myself those things. If he were ever to decide he wanted someone else I couldn't and wouldn't stop him - - he just wouldn't have me any more. His choice is simple and he knows it. So is mine. That's what commitment is all about.
But as always - - YMMV.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 13:07:24 GMT -5
how do you know that your husband's intent at a strip club isn't to do more, though? If is the intent that makes it cheating then how do you know if he is cheating or not? Well "intent" is where the whole thing gets fuzzy and messy, right? That is different for every person and every couple and I don't feel qualified to lay down rules and absolutes for other people. I'm only talking about how I see things.
FWIW - DH does not drink (for medical reasons - he has severe hypoglycemia) and has only gone to strip clubs for bachelor parties. I'm not worried about him. He knows the only reason I'm married to him is for the personal satisfaction of a loving relationship. I don't need money, protection or status from a man - I can give myself those things. If he were ever to decide he wanted someone else I couldn't and wouldn't stop him - - he just wouldn't have me any more. His choice is simple and he knows it. So is mine. That's what commitment is all about.
But as always - - YMMV.
so then are you saying that intent doesn't matter
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 27, 2015 13:07:09 GMT -5
I could care less how many girlie mags DH looks at. I don't even care if he goes to a club with the boys as long as he keeps his hands (and other body parts) to himself. A wise woman once told me that she didn't care how hubby got hungry, as long as he ate at home .
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on Aug 27, 2015 13:09:47 GMT -5
I have a pretty laissez-faire attitude about cheating, but that's because DH is incapable of any type of deception (I know, I know, all the jilted spouses say that...) If I was with someone who was at least a passable liar, I'd have stronger opinions.OMG are we married to the same guy!? DH always says I never have to worry about him cheating on me because he can't keep a secret. And it's true, he can't. Some of our mutual friends are amazed at things I know that they would have thought he'd keep a secret, like things that happened in his mis-spent youth LONG before I knew him. I don't ever want DH to think I'm doing anything wrong, so I over share too. He's met all my coworkers, he knows which of them I hang out with/go for drinks with. Most times, he joins us. I would be more hurt by the lying, I think, than the actual cheating.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 13:11:52 GMT -5
Well "intent" is where the whole thing gets fuzzy and messy, right? That is different for every person and every couple and I don't feel qualified to lay down rules and absolutes for other people. I'm only talking about how I see things.
FWIW - DH does not drink (for medical reasons - he has severe hypoglycemia) and has only gone to strip clubs for bachelor parties. I'm not worried about him. He knows the only reason I'm married to him is for the personal satisfaction of a loving relationship. I don't need money, protection or status from a man - I can give myself those things. If he were ever to decide he wanted someone else I couldn't and wouldn't stop him - - he just wouldn't have me any more. His choice is simple and he knows it. So is mine. That's what commitment is all about.
But as always - - YMMV.
so then are you saying that intent doesn't matter I'm saying it can . . . or not. Depends on the person and the couple and their feelings on the subject.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 13:13:54 GMT -5
so then are you saying that intent doesn't matter I'm saying it can . . . or not. Depends on the person and the couple and their feelings on the subject. We are going in the wrong direction! The definition is getting vaguer rather than more clear.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 27, 2015 13:14:10 GMT -5
Whoops, that may be for a whole nuther thread. BUT - I can't imagine being in a relationship where you're not comfortable letting your SO know what you want.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 27, 2015 13:15:29 GMT -5
Lol! [[[ *more vague* ]]]
I don't feel qualified to define cheating for other people, only for myself and my relationship.
Kinda like pornography - - I can't define it very well but I know it when I see it.
Sorry I'm not playing along like you want .
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 27, 2015 13:17:59 GMT -5
Lol! [[[ *more vague* ]]]
I don't feel qualified to define cheating for other people, only for myself and my relationship.
Kinda like pornography - - I can't define it very well but I know it when I see it.
Sorry I'm not playing along like you want . You are playing just perfectly. In fact I would like to play with you a little more.
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