DOJ Report On The Ferguson, Mo. Police Department

[OldCoyote]

Have any of you read the DOJ report on Ferguson MO.?   Maybe you really need to.

apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/department-of-justice-report-on-the-ferguson-mo-police-department/1435/


www.bustle.com/articles/67943-9-startling-details-from-the-ferguson-report-by-the-department-of-justice  

All of you that have said something to the effect "I have nothing to hide"  If you live in Ferguson Mo or many other places like it,  Well it may not matter that you have nothing to hide.

They police will just make something up,   If you complain,  Here is a Failure to comply ticket for you,

Here is the bad part,  Law enforsement investigating law enforcement,   there is always a cover of some kind,   We can not have police looking to bad.

Did you notice how the focus was trying to take the heat off of the police,  put it on the city,  calling it revenue generation.   Ethics in law enforcement there is almost none!!

[Deleted]

If you want something done about police violence you should get a cop to kill  a lion instead of a black man.

[OldCoyote]

I will ask this again,  did any of you read "any" of this report or any of the condensed versions?

The reason is that this happens every where,  Some, more and some less.  

Along the way here I have been asked to show where rules and regs have caused problems. 

You can find some good examples of over endorsement,   the problem it causes for no reason other than they can do it.

Here is a good example,  if you are given a ticket for something you don't think you deserve,  you complain about it,  you get another ticket of failure to comply.

Really how would that work for you,    Just think what it would be like if oldcoyote was a cop writing you a ticket.

[Deleted]

what do you want people to do? I am outraged at how police act, but do not know how to affect change.  Do you have any ideas what people like me can do to change police behavior?

[resolution]

That is the big problem - what can a normal person do about it?

[mmhmm]

There are marches in which you can participate. You can work through your local organizations to register your objection when/if something happens locally. There are also petitions you can sign demanding justice. HERE IS JUST ONE

[djAdvocate]

we have regular protests in the area over this issue.

[OldCoyote]

Good to see you back DJ

[frankq]

Aug 6, 2015 17:00:18 GMT -5 @hickle said:

If you want something done about police violence you should get a cop to kill  a lion instead of a black man.

If lions were committing half of the crime while having only 15% of the population, you might see some lions catching a bullet........Let's stop assuming all these people involved in altercations with cops are just innocent school children on the way to work so that they could earn money to donate to orphans.....

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2015 15:04:47 GMT -5 frankq said:

Aug 6, 2015 17:00:18 GMT -5 @hickle said:

If you want something done about police violence you should get a cop to kill  a lion instead of a black man.

If lions were committing half of the crime while having only 15% of the population, you might see some lions catching a bullet........Let's stop assuming all these people involved in altercations with cops are just innocent school children on the way to work so that they could earn money to donate to orphans.....

Unless you are on a jury it is not your place to say whether they were guilty or not.  In no case is it right for a cop to execute someone. And that is what some cops are doing, murder plain and simple, then hoping for people with your attitude to judge them.

[frankq]

Aug 10, 2015 15:25:00 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Aug 10, 2015 15:04:47 GMT -5 frankq said:

If lions were committing half of the crime while having only 15% of the population, you might see some lions catching a bullet........Let's stop assuming all these people involved in altercations with cops are just innocent school children on the way to work so that they could earn money to donate to orphans.....

Unless you are on a jury it is not your place to say whether they were guilty or not.  In no case is it right for a cop to execute someone. And that is what some cops are doing, murder plain and simple, then hoping for people with your attitude to judge them.

And unless you have the definitive proof that the authorities are lacking to conclude that the vast majority of these shootings are murders, then I suggest you yap it. The people with the worst attitudes are those like you who conclude that cops automatically are wrong. I get tired of hearing about "unarmed" people getting shot. Stop committing crimes and you'll be far better off. Yes, in VERY few cases, cops look to be in the wrong, in most, however, they have been shown to have acted properly...as in the Brown case. Cops are armed for a reason. It's not supposed to be a fair and equal contest when dealing with criminals. This isn't the Coloseum.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2015 15:33:53 GMT -5 frankq said:

Aug 10, 2015 15:25:00 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Unless you are on a jury it is not your place to say whether they were guilty or not.  In no case is it right for a cop to execute someone. And that is what some cops are doing, murder plain and simple, then hoping for people with your attitude to judge them.

And unless you have the definitive proof that the authorities are lacking to conclude that the vast majority of these shootings are murders, then I suggest you yap it. The people with the worst attitudes are those like you who conclude that cops automatically are wrong. I get tired of hearing about "unarmed" people getting shot. Stop committing crimes and you'll be far better off. Yes, in VERY few cases, cops look to be in the wrong, in most, however, they have been shown to have acted properly...as in the Brown case. Cops are armed for a reason. It's not supposed to be a fair and equal contest when dealing with criminals. This isn't the Coloseum.

They are usually not found to be wrong because they investigate themselves.  In cases where there is a camera and video of what happened it is a different story.  Let the gangbangers judge other gangbangers and most of them will be found not guilty also.  Maybe most cops don't kill innocent people but most cops probably lie for other cops who do bad.  I linked an article the other day where part of the application was being asked if you would hold cops to the same standards when they broke the law and those who said no were given more points.  Anyone who thinks cops should be trusted in wrong.

[frankq]

Ok. How about we do a "No Cops" day and see how it goes....Next time your in trouble you can fend for yourself. See how it works out for you.....


but most cops probably lie for other cops who do bad

I guess for people like you "probably" is good enough......no reason to trouble ourselves with that pesky evidence......

Maybe most cops don't kill innocent people

Wow....that's quite a concession.........

[frankq]

Aug 10, 2015 16:06:42 GMT -5 frankq said:

Ok. How about we do a "No Cops" day and see how it goes....Next time your in trouble you can fend for yourself. See how it works out for you.....


but most cops probably lie for other cops who do bad

I guess for people like you "probably" is good enough......no reason to trouble ourselves with that pesky evidence......

Maybe most cops don't kill innocent people

Wow....that's quite a concession.........

[The Captain]

Not too surprisingly I believe many peoples' perception of law enforcement is tied to their perception of how important it is to follow the law themselves.

Sad really, how people hold others to a much higher standard than that which they hold themselves.

[frankq]

They are usually not found to be wrong because they investigate themselves.

I thought the thread was about the DOJ report, which exonorated the officer involved the the Brown shooting......

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2015 16:06:42 GMT -5 frankq said:

Ok. How about we do a "No Cops" day and see how it goes....Next time your in trouble you can fend for yourself. See how it works out for you.....


but most cops probably lie for other cops who do bad

I guess for people like you "probably" is good enough......no reason to trouble ourselves with that pesky evidence......

Maybe most cops don't kill innocent people

Wow....that's quite a concession.........

Since we need cops for a civil society, we shouldn't hold them to any standards, is that your argument?   Take out the "probably" if you dont like it, most cops lie for other cops who do bad. 

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2015 16:09:53 GMT -5 frankq said:

They are usually not found to be wrong because they investigate themselves.

I thought the thread was about the DOJ report, which exonorated the officer involved the the Brown shooting......

The article I read said Ferguson cops were terrible.  The officer was exonerated because the attorney heading up the thing was connected to cops, family or something and did not want to get an indictment.  You can indict a ham sandwich if you want, is the old adage, but apparently you cannot indict a cop who killed someone.

[Deleted]

The prosecutor at the grand jury knowingly presented false evidence.

thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/21/3606084/how-a-startling-admission-from-the-ferguson-prosector-could-restart-the-case-against-darren-wilson/

[frankq]

The cop was exonorated by a Grand jury and a politically motivated DOJ. It doesn't get any better than that. You are full of_it my boy.

[The Captain]

FWIW I've gotten through about 60 pages of the report.  I'll comment in more detail once I finish it.

[saveinla]

It's a scary report to read especially the part about how revenue is more important than people and actual policing - 


The City’s emphasis on revenue generation has a profound effect on FPD’s approach to law enforcement. Patrol assignments and schedules are geared toward aggressive enforcement
of Ferguson’s municipal code, with insufficient thought given to whether enforcement strategies promote public safety or unnecessarily undermine community trust and cooperation. Officer
evaluations and promotions depend to an inordinate degree on “productivity,” meaning the number of citations issued. Partly as a consequence of City and FPD priorities, many officers
appear to see some residents, especially those who live in Ferguson’s predominantly AfricanAmerican neighborhoods, less as constituents to be protected than as potential offenders and
sources of revenue.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2015 16:23:33 GMT -5 frankq said:

The cop was exonorated by a Grand jury and a politically motivated DOJ. It doesn't get any better than that. You are full of_it my boy.

They were exonerated by a Grand Jury whose prosecutor knowingly presented them with false evidence.  That is his own admission. Where did the DOJ exonerate the cop?  Can you quote a sentence or two where they say he is not guilty?  I read the article summarizing the report and it does not come close to exonerating the Ferguson police.

[frankq]

The report states that the officer did nothing wrong. Nothing to prosecute. Done. You have nothing to support your contention. I guess you feel that the DOJ is in bed with the cops there too?

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 8, 2015 7:23:14 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

I will ask this again,  did any of you read "any" of this report or any of the condensed versions?

The reason is that this happens every where,  Some, more and some less.  

Along the way here I have been asked to show where rules and regs have caused problems. 

You can find some good examples of over endorsement,   the problem it causes for no reason other than they can do it.

Here is a good example,  if you are given a ticket for something you don't think you deserve,  you complain about it,  you get another ticket of failure to comply.

Really how would that work for you,    Just think what it would be like if oldcoyote was a cop writing you a ticket.

Interesting. I've not heard of this "failure to comply" for complaining about a ticket.  I've heard of (different states call it different things) it for refusing to give information that is legally required for you to give but not for complaining.  Is there a link to this happening? 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 10, 2015 16:26:59 GMT -5 saveinla said:

It's a scary report to read especially the part about how revenue is more important than people and actual policing - 


The City’s emphasis on revenue generation has a profound effect on FPD’s approach to law enforcement. Patrol assignments and schedules are geared toward aggressive enforcement
of Ferguson’s municipal code, with insufficient thought given to whether enforcement strategies promote public safety or unnecessarily undermine community trust and cooperation. Officer
evaluations and promotions depend to an inordinate degree on “productivity,” meaning the number of citations issued. Partly as a consequence of City and FPD priorities, many officers
appear to see some residents, especially those who live in Ferguson’s predominantly AfricanAmerican neighborhoods, less as constituents to be protected than as potential offenders and
sources of revenue.

That does not sound good. So....these people they are ticketing for the revenue....are they innocent of failing to abide by the municipal code and being picked on? Or are people saying the municipal codes should not be enforced and people should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want for the sake of....good will?

[zibazinski]

If I speed or park illegally or don't have proper documentation while driving my car, is it a money grab or is it the laws they've sworn to uphold?

[Green Eyed Lady]

Park in front of a fire hydrant if you want! There probably won't be any fire. And if there is? Oh well. The cop who saw you parked there an hour ago but didn't want you to feel picked on or didn't want to be seen as money grabbing, just let it go....in the interest of good will and all.

Too bad about that business burning to the ground.

[saveinla]

People are not saying that the code should not be enforced. The report shows examples of how it's being enforced incorrectly and often only against a particular group.

If you read the examples in the report, you can see how people just sitting in a parked car after a basketball game are called pedophiles or asked to come out for a pat down, even though they don't have any record of any violation or previous offenses. If you object to a search of your car, you are arrested and fined. 

[The Captain]

Made it through 20 more pages, have 20 more to go.  I'll knock that out on the train ride home.

So, a few comments.

Yes - there was a money grab in process.  First - absolutely no doubt but I want to discuss that in more detail later.

Second - yes there is no doubt minor violations did happen.  The issue the report (and I) have is the rate of charges/prosecution was disproportionate based on race.  You guessed it, minorities had higher rates of charges and convictions.

Third - The severity of the charge varied based on the race of the person charged.  Minorities were often charged with higher level crimes and fined more for what was basically the same violation.

All of the above no doubt contributes to an environment of distrust.  Does that give you the right to try to take a cops gun and cold cock him?  Apparently a jury didn't think so which is why no charges were brought against the officer.

Many different issues, all connected as far as cause and effect.  I want to finish reading the report in detail before I comment more.