Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 15:20:36 GMT -5
Made it through 20 more pages, have 20 more to go. I'll knock that out on the train ride home. So, a few comments. Yes - there was a money grab in process. First - absolutely no doubt but I want to discuss that in more detail later. Second - yes there is no doubt minor violations did happen. The issue the report (and I) have is the rate of charges/prosecution was disproportionate based on race. You guessed it, minorities had higher rates of charges and convictions. Third - The severity of the charge varied based on the race of the person charged. Minorities were often charged with higher level crimes and fined more for what was basically the same violation. All of the above no doubt contributes to an environment of distrust. Does that give you the right to try to take a cops gun and cold cock him? Apparently a jury didn't think so which is why no charges were brought against the officer. Many different issues, all connected as far as cause and effect. I want to finish reading the report in detail before I comment more. I think there is a social contract that people are expected to be part of. If you follow the contract you get the benefits of the contract. I think police are breaking the contract and making it pretty much invalid. The people who react however are not the ones exiting the social contract, it has already been negated by police and other authorities.
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Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 11, 2015 15:22:38 GMT -5
So then....the answer basically is to stop breaking the law? Or no?
I have no doubt there was misconduct. You'll find that anywhere. However, if one is to believe this report, the misconduct goes far beyond the police department who does not, by the way, enter convictions or assess fines. Yes. They are the initial contact. I know from experience that most of the time, when you turn on those lights and siren, you have no idea of the race of the person driving the vehicle - only that a violation has occurred. I know from experience that when you ticket an illegally parked vehicle - you have no idea of the race of the person driving that vehicle because they weren't in it! If misconduct is occurring at higher levels - address it and fix it. Don't blame those who are more visible and accessible.
Nothing will convince me this was anything more than a witch hunt directed and produced to appease the rioting and looting masses. And guess what? They are still rioting and looting. The last I read (IIRC) more black police officers had been added to the force - one of whom has already quit. A black council person was voted in. And guess what? They are still rioting and looting. Some of the people there are the problem - black and white alike - and until people are unafraid to recognize that, they will STILL be the problem years from now. At who's expense? The honest and hard-working people of that community - that's who. But who cares about them?
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The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
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Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
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Post by The Captain on Aug 11, 2015 15:27:10 GMT -5
@hickle - but then the question is do we judge people as individuals or en masse?
I agree there is a social contract, but did the individual officer involved in the shooting break it? No - at least not as far as any reports I've seen.
Now, using the same argument, if a small group of minorities violate the social contract does that give the police the right to treat all minorities as if they've violated the contract? My argument would be an unqualified no and I think yours would as well.
You could say police should be held to a higher standard and I do agree with this to an extent. BUT that does not mean (IMHO) that police have to take abuse, allow themselves to become sitting ducks, and put themselves at unnecessary risk. We've had several discussions about this on this site.
Like I said, I'd like to finish reading the full report then hopefully I can comment with some baseline of knowledge.
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 11:27:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 15:27:46 GMT -5
So then....the answer basically is to stop breaking the law? Or no?
I have no doubt there was misconduct. You'll find that anywhere. However, if one is to believe this report, the misconduct goes far beyond the police department who does not, by the way, enter convictions or assess fines. Yes. They are the initial contact. I know from experience that most of the time, when you turn on those lights and siren, you have no idea of the race of the person driving the vehicle - only that a violation has occurred. I know from experience that when you ticket an illegally parked vehicle - you have no idea of the race of the person driving that vehicle because they weren't in it! If misconduct is occurring at higher levels - address it and fix it. Don't blame those who are more visible and accessible.
Nothing will convince me this was anything more than a witch hunt directed and produced to appease the rioting and looting masses. And guess what? They are still rioting and looting. The last I read (IIRC) more black police officers had been added to the force - one of whom has already quit. A black council person was voted in. And guess what? They are still rioting and looting. Some of the people there are the problem - black and white alike - and until people are unafraid to recognize that, they will STILL be the problem years from now. At who's expense? The honest and hard-working people of that community - that's who. But who cares about them? If you are directing that at the police and authorities of Ferguson, then yes, that is basically the answer.
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 11:27:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 15:32:28 GMT -5
@hickle - but then the question is do we judge people as individuals or en masse?I agree there is a social contract, but did the individual officer involved in the shooting break it? No - at least not as far as any reports I've seen. Now, using the same argument, if a small group of minorities violate the social contract does that give the police the right to treat all minorities as if they've violated the contract? My argument would be an unqualified no and I think yours would as well. You could say police should be held to a higher standard and I do agree with this to an extent. BUT that does not mean (IMHO) that police have to take abuse, allow themselves to become sitting ducks, and put themselves at unnecessary risk. We've had several discussions about this on this site. Like I said, I'd like to finish reading the full report then hopefully I can comment with some baseline of knowledge. You think cops do not judge cops as different and protect them as part of their own? Not all cops are bad, not all snarling dogs bite.
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