AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 23, 2015 11:51:25 GMT -5
When a black woman refused to comply with a Texas police officer's illegitimate order (which wasn't even framed as an instruction, but as a "would you mind, please?") to put out her cigarette, she was arrested and then murdered by police. The report is that she was found to have hung herself in her cell. Right. It is now being investigated as a murder.
www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-mullen/sandra-bland-arrest-wasnt_b_7849052.html
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 23, 2015 11:59:10 GMT -5
Of course it's being investigated. It should be investigated. Even if all signs point to suicide, there should still be an investigation. I don't think anyone would be happy with a "well it looks like...." and have it end. At least I wouldn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 12:04:33 GMT -5
I've heard that her "mugshot" is all over social media and people are saying she was already dead when the picture was taken. I don't want to see it for myself. Have any of you seen it? If you have, what do you think?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 23, 2015 12:09:25 GMT -5
I saw it but I don't recall that she looked dead. I'd have to go look again because I wasn't of the mindset to question it at the time.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 23, 2015 12:14:26 GMT -5
Hard to understand how traffic stops like this escalate like they do. One small amount of humility from either party seems like it would have defused the situation. It is also hard to imagine that happening to a white 28 YO woman.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 23, 2015 12:40:08 GMT -5
Not to me.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 23, 2015 13:21:31 GMT -5
me neither. i have been harassed by cops as long as i can remember.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 23, 2015 13:24:11 GMT -5
me neither. i have been harassed by cops as long as i can remember. I am very sorry. how many times have you unsuccessfully tried to hang yourself in your jail cell?
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jul 23, 2015 13:32:50 GMT -5
Around here, the "big city" police seem to have the worst attitude. I definitely wouldn't do or say anything to get one of them upset. The best way to respond, (and I've taught this to my kids, too), is "yes sir" and "no sir". If you get upset about something an officer says or does, you can always deal with it later. But, NOT in the heat of the moment. You won't win there.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 23, 2015 13:51:04 GMT -5
Whenever I see these videos, I can't help but think how incompetent the cops look when they are confronted. It's like they immediately just resort to billy bad*ss and start yelling "GET YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR...THAT IS A DIRECT ORDER!!!!" or they start fumbling around looking for their billy club.
I always thought that getting pulled over for not using a signal (or "improper lane usage") was just used as a reason to pull you over because they thought you were drunk. If you're not drunk or obnoxious, you'll probably get off. If you're being an a*s, you'll probably get a ticket. Not sure why he decided to escalate the situation and ask her to get out of the car. Just write the ticket and move on with your life. If you're really feeling like a pr*ck, you kick their tail light in and then give them a ticket for a broken tail light.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 14:02:34 GMT -5
I got pulled over for not wearing a seat belt. Except I did have my seatbelt on. Ever since I had a car with automatic seatbelts, I feel naked or something in a moving car without a fastened seatbelt even if I'm just going around the corner.
I think he just wanted to mess with somebody that day. I didn't even get an apology for wasting my time with some nonsense. I guess I should just be happy I lived through it though.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 23, 2015 14:14:00 GMT -5
It appears from the video that he told her to get out of the car because she refused his order to extinguish her cigarette which was, by the way, a quite common order. Most people here would never think about stuff like this because they would never do it, but there have been a whole bunch of incidences of officers intentionally burned when they step up the window to collect information like a driver's license, registration, etc. The driver with the cigarette may intentionally burn the officer, intentionally flick it at the officer...and I would imagine it hurts. He told her to put out her cigarette for that reason. She refused and got all stupid and she got arrested. What happened after that is being investigated but it appears that part is pretty clear.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 23, 2015 14:23:59 GMT -5
When a black woman refused to comply with a Texas police officer's illegitimate order (which wasn't even framed as an instruction, but as a "would you mind, please?") to put out her cigarette, she was arrested and then murdered by police. The report is that she was found to have hung herself in her cell. Right. It is now being investigated as a murder.
www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-mullen/sandra-bland-arrest-wasnt_b_7849052.html We don't know yet that she was murdered by the police. There are video tapes of the hall outside her jail cell while she was there that the FBI is reviewing. I'm certain there must be a forensic investigation of her body going on as well. Let's not jump to conclusions. What is clear, from the video, is the cop acted like a prick. Yes, the woman refused to go along with his little power trip, but she wasn't fleeing the scene of a crime, he didn't have to be so snotty with her. I admire the police in general and know they do a hard job, but some of them get that badge and that gun and start acting like Barney Fife.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 23, 2015 14:25:34 GMT -5
me neither. i have been harassed by cops as long as i can remember. I am very sorry. how many times have you unsuccessfully tried to hang yourself in your jail cell? no more than once.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 23, 2015 14:29:39 GMT -5
I am very sorry. how many times have you unsuccessfully tried to hang yourself in your jail cell? no more than once. No one should have to go through that.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Jul 23, 2015 15:01:08 GMT -5
me neither. i have been harassed by cops as long as i can remember.Why do you think that is?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 23, 2015 15:06:33 GMT -5
It appears from the video that he told her to get out of the car because she refused his order to extinguish her cigarette which was, by the way, a quite common order. Most people here would never think about stuff like this because they would never do it, but there have been a whole bunch of incidences of officers intentionally burned when they step up the window to collect information like a driver's license, registration, etc. The driver with the cigarette may intentionally burn the officer, intentionally flick it at the officer...and I would imagine it hurts. He told her to put out her cigarette for that reason. She refused and got all stupid and she got arrested. What happened after that is being investigated but it appears that part is pretty clear. HUH Since when? She was in her own care engaged in a legal (though filthy IMO) activity! Had she burned the officer or flicked his cigarette at him, he would have a case but now... Not even close
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 23, 2015 15:14:55 GMT -5
It appears from the video that he told her to get out of the car because she refused his order to extinguish her cigarette which was, by the way, a quite common order. Most people here would never think about stuff like this because they would never do it, but there have been a whole bunch of incidences of officers intentionally burned when they step up the window to collect information like a driver's license, registration, etc. The driver with the cigarette may intentionally burn the officer, intentionally flick it at the officer...and I would imagine it hurts. He told her to put out her cigarette for that reason. She refused and got all stupid and she got arrested. What happened after that is being investigated but it appears that part is pretty clear. HUH Since when? She was in her own care engaged in a legal (though filthy IMO) activity! Had she burned the officer or flicked his cigarette at him, he would have a case but now... Not even close Since forever. It's very common for officer to tell the driver to extinguish their cigarette before they approach the window....for reasons I already outlined....and yes....while they are in their own car...and yes....while smoking legally. An officer doesn't have to wait till a person shoots them before they order them to drop their weapon and they don't have to wait until someone burns them, flicks at them or blows smoke in their face before they order them to extinguish their cigarette.
I don't think this officer was very professional at all in his demeanor. But then I don't know how many other stupid people he had crossed paths with that day. Still no excuse.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 15:24:25 GMT -5
HUH Since when? She was in her own care engaged in a legal (though filthy IMO) activity! Had she burned the officer or flicked his cigarette at him, he would have a case but now... Not even close Since forever. It's very common for officer to tell the driver to extinguish their cigarette before they approach the window....for reasons I already outlined....and yes....while they are in their own car...and yes....while smoking legally. An officer doesn't have to wait till a person shoots them before they order them to drop their weapon and they don't have to wait until someone burns them, flicks at them or blows smoke in their face before they order them to extinguish their cigarette.
I don't think this officer was very professional at all in his demeanor. But then I don't know how many other stupid people he had crossed paths with that day. Still no excuse.
All I can say is.... Wow!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 23, 2015 15:36:54 GMT -5
Yep. And people do it to themselves. I guess that why I get so irritated at people who know nothing about law enforcement, yet they keep insisting that he had no right to ask her to put out the cigarette and that if he hadn't none of this would have happened. I'm not talking about this thread....I'm talking about the comments I see on the internet elsewhere. Well? Yes, he does have a right and she has a responsibility to comply or get arrested. Put out the dang cigarette FFS, get your warning and go on with your day. How hard is this?
Now? Somebody's baby is dead. Somebody's sister. Somebody's friend. And for what? It makes me sad and I can't read about it anymore.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2015 15:44:02 GMT -5
Yep. And people do it to themselves. I guess that why I get so irritated at people who know nothing about law enforcement, yet they keep insisting that he had no right to ask her to put out the cigarette and that if he hadn't none of this would have happened. I'm not talking about this thread....I'm talking about the comments I see on the internet elsewhere. Well? Yes, he does have a right and she has a responsibility to comply or get arrested. Put out the dang cigarette FFS, get your warning and go on with your day. How hard is this?
Now? Somebody's baby is dead. Somebody's sister. Somebody's friend. And for what? It makes me sad and I can't read about it anymore. What is the legal statute that requires you to put out your cigarette because an officer wants you to?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 23, 2015 15:45:29 GMT -5
www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/22/sandra_bland_arrest_her_detention_was_legal_but_encinia_used_excessive_force.htmlThe rules of Bland’s stop are dictated by by the Fourth Amendment, which bars “unreasonable searches and seizures.” A traffic stop qualifies as a “seizure” of the person, so an officer can’t pull you over unless he has reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime. Here, Trooper Brian Encinia clearly had reasonable suspicion that Bland committed an offense: She changed lanes without a signal, in violation of Texas traffic law. Leaving aside the question of whether Encinia effectively forced Bland to change lanes (which she alleges in the video), the footage demonstrates that the trooper acted within the law when pulling her over.
After detaining Bland, Encinia asked her to put out her cigarette, and Bland refused. Some outlets are reporting that Encinia arrested Bland for this refusal. But there is another reasonable interpretation of the exchange: Encinia asked Bland to put out her cigarette; Bland refused, on the grounds that she was in her own car; so Encinia asked her to exit her car in order to remove her excuse for continuing to smoke.
This interpretation keeps Encinia on the right side of the law. The trooper had every right to ask Bland to step out of her car: The Supreme Court has held that during a routine traffic stop, officers may ask drivers to exit their cars for the sake of safety, the idea being that an officer can more easily monitor someone who's standing face to face than someone who's inside a car. (In this light, it seems that Encinia probably had the right from the very beginning of the stop to expect Bland to comply with minor requests, like putting out a cigarette, that facilitated his ability to safely observe her during their interaction.) Encinia's affidavit about the arrest says his order was made so that he could "conduct a safe traffic investigation," which is legal.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2015 15:46:47 GMT -5
HUH Since when? She was in her own care engaged in a legal (though filthy IMO) activity! Had she burned the officer or flicked his cigarette at him, he would have a case but now... Not even close Since forever. It's very common for officer to tell the driver to extinguish their cigarette before they approach the window....for reasons I already outlined....and yes....while they are in their own car...and yes....while smoking legally. An officer doesn't have to wait till a person shoots them before they order them to drop their weapon and they don't have to wait until someone burns them, flicks at them or blows smoke in their face before they order them to extinguish their cigarette.
I don't think this officer was very professional at all in his demeanor. But then I don't know how many other stupid people he had crossed paths with that day. Still no excuse.
If there's no excuse, why are you trying to make one? Why bring it up? For all you know, he crossed paths with no stupid people that day. What is the point you are trying to make?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 23, 2015 15:51:07 GMT -5
Of course it's being investigated. It should be investigated. Even if all signs point to suicide, there should still be an investigation. I don't think anyone would be happy with a "well it looks like...." and have it end. At least I wouldn't. Even if she killed herself- carried it out. We don't know what motivated it. Perhaps she was 'persuaded' to do it as an alternative to a much worse fate? Maybe the stress of being arrested and thrown into jail broke her? Maybe she continued for three days to endure the kind of abuse that took place for an hour on the side of the road on video? All we know for absolutely certain is that she was in a jail cell she had absolutely no legitimate reason to be in. That alone makes the police liable for her death at least from a civil standpoint- they had a duty to ensure she did not harm herself. Standard booking it would seem to me?
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 23, 2015 15:52:07 GMT -5
I just do what they tell me to do. Why is that so hard for people to understand? They don't know what kind of person they are stopping, I'm sure the adrenal starts flowing.
If I was an officer that would piss me off to. Also she made a few snarky remarks to him, I likely would have arrested them too. Odd that in 3 days she couldn't make bail, I think you only have to post a few dollars, no family or friends would do that?
About the suicide part I don't know. Like they said today, that was state police and a local jail, guess we will have to see about that. I feel like anytime I see a traffic stop anymore we should stop and offer the officer assistance and take videos in his defense as everyone seems to be after the cops anymore. What a thankless job for little money. I haven't been following this case at all. But the bolded comment above is seriously "what the fuck?!?!" worthy. In your opinion, making snarky comments is reasonable grounds for arrest? That is total insanity. The whole world would be in jail.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 23, 2015 15:54:33 GMT -5
I just do what they tell me to do. Why is that so hard for people to understand? They don't know what kind of person they are stopping, I'm sure the adrenal starts flowing.
If I was an officer that would piss me off to. Also she made a few snarky remarks to him, I likely would have arrested them too. Odd that in 3 days she couldn't make bail, I think you only have to post a few dollars, no family or friends would do that?
About the suicide part I don't know. Like they said today, that was state police and a local jail, guess we will have to see about that. I feel like anytime I see a traffic stop anymore we should stop and offer the officer assistance and take videos in his defense as everyone seems to be after the cops anymore. What a thankless job for little money. I saw something about it being impossible to get bail over a weekend, which is why she was in jail for 3 days. No source though. But it's not illegal to make snarky remarks. And arresting someone just for snarky remarks is more than likely a violation of free speech. I'm a white girl. I get pulled over and either get a ticket for speeding or I get a warning and let go. I've never been pulled over for anything else, I've gotten tickets due to car accidents that were my fault but that's the cops responding, not me being pulled over.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 23, 2015 15:55:48 GMT -5
www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/22/sandra_bland_arrest_her_detention_was_legal_but_encinia_used_excessive_force.htmlThe rules of Bland’s stop are dictated by by the Fourth Amendment, which bars “unreasonable searches and seizures.” A traffic stop qualifies as a “seizure” of the person, so an officer can’t pull you over unless he has reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime. Here, Trooper Brian Encinia clearly had reasonable suspicion that Bland committed an offense: She changed lanes without a signal, in violation of Texas traffic law. Leaving aside the question of whether Encinia effectively forced Bland to change lanes (which she alleges in the video), the footage demonstrates that the trooper acted within the law when pulling her over.
After detaining Bland, Encinia asked her to put out her cigarette, and Bland refused. Some outlets are reporting that Encinia arrested Bland for this refusal. But there is another reasonable interpretation of the exchange: Encinia asked Bland to put out her cigarette; Bland refused, on the grounds that she was in her own car; so Encinia asked her to exit her car in order to remove her excuse for continuing to smoke.
This interpretation keeps Encinia on the right side of the law. The trooper had every right to ask Bland to step out of her car: The Supreme Court has held that during a routine traffic stop, officers may ask drivers to exit their cars for the sake of safety, the idea being that an officer can more easily monitor someone who's standing face to face than someone who's inside a car. (In this light, it seems that Encinia probably had the right from the very beginning of the stop to expect Bland to comply with minor requests, like putting out a cigarette, that facilitated his ability to safely observe her during their interaction.) Encinia's affidavit about the arrest says his order was made so that he could "conduct a safe traffic investigation," which is legal. He was issuing her a warning, apparently. If you watch the video, the investigation was concluded. The stop was complete. Encinia, for no other reason that it just pissed him off that she did not comply with his request- it's clear from the wording it wasn't an "order", and even if it was an order it was illegitimate- escalated the matter. He doesn't have the temperament for public service. He should not only be stripped of his job, but he should be in jail for the assault and false arrest. The SCOTUS can suck it. We don't get our rights from the SCOTUS. We must TAKE our rights. We must ASSERT our rights. If we do not, we will continue to devolve into a compliant herd of sheeple ripe for ongoing and worsening abuse.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 23, 2015 15:56:34 GMT -5
Of course it's being investigated. It should be investigated. Even if all signs point to suicide, there should still be an investigation. I don't think anyone would be happy with a "well it looks like...." and have it end. At least I wouldn't. Even if she killed herself- carried it out. We don't know what motivated it. Perhaps she was 'persuaded' to do it as an alternative to a much worse fate? Maybe the stress of being arrested and thrown into jail broke her? Maybe she continued for three days to endure the kind of abuse that took place for an hour on the side of the road on video? All we know for absolutely certain is that she was in a jail cell she had absolutely no legitimate reason to be in. That alone makes the police liable for her death at least from a civil standpoint- they had a duty to ensure she did not harm herself. Standard booking it would seem to me? I saw something, not sure where (probably Slate.com) that said they police failed to conduct standard checking of her while she was a prisoner. I saw a headline today about her having made a phone call to her family just hours before she died but I didn't have a chance to read it yet. ETA to add this quote from www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/20/sandra_bland_dash_cam_footage_attorney_describes_confrontation.htmlOn the matter of jail standards, from the Houston Chronicle: Texas Commission on Jail Standards Executive Director Brandon Wood said his agency found Waller County jail to be non-compliant with the two areas of the state's minimum jail standards—one with staff training and one with observation of inmates. "Inmates are required to be observed at least once every 60 minutes and the Waller County Jail did not perform that observation as required," he said.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 23, 2015 16:00:40 GMT -5
Hard to understand how traffic stops like this escalate like they do. One small amount of humility from either party seems like it would have defused the situation. It is also hard to imagine that happening to a white 28 YO woman. Who is the 'professional' here? Who is the 'public servant'? These fucking cops have to understand that we don't have to like them, be nice to them, be polite, or for that matter- compliant. No, we do NOT have to obey. Get used to it. Nobody's "safety" was enhanced by his ordering her out of the car. It was a completely illegitimate arrest, and the guy needs to suffer the full consequences of his actions, including the ensuing harm. I hope this town gets sued out of existence for wrongful death.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 16:16:09 GMT -5
the answer is not going to come from government. It is going to come elsewhere, though I learned I cannot suggest that place on this forum.
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