Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 8:21:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 8:21:54 GMT -5
A guy at work got his 5th DUI a while back. He says he might have to go to jail for 2 years. So far he has spent $7500 on attorney fees.
What is his attorney probably doing for the $7500? Are there better solutions for DUI then jail?
I think they could do something like mandatory tests to see if he still drinks and fines would be better. Say a drug test every two weeks or however long alcohol can be tested for. If he fails then put him in jail. Stopping the drinking seems like a good option to me. I don't know though. Five dui's is a lot. He said that was over 25 years.
For the record, I have drunk drove more then I should have, but have no DUIs and don't drink anymore.
eta: I don't know where to post stufff like this. Please move to wherever appropriate.
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Jun 21, 2015 8:42:09 GMT -5
I thought after so many you permanently lost your license. I mean five DUI's, Jesus!!! That person needs one of the built in breathalyzers for their vehicle
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 8:51:54 GMT -5
"For the record, I have drunk drove more then I should have, but have no DUIs "
So.., think how often this guy drives drunk to have 5 DUIs.
Obviously nothing else has worked. Should have had stiffer consequences long ago.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 21, 2015 9:19:32 GMT -5
I'm thinking he's only been caught 5 times. And I'm willing to bet that the "over 25 yrs" is a lie. He needs to be in a drunk tank and maybe have time to dry out and get rehabilited (as in sober and think about it) Do they have AA meeting in jail - hey, everyone thinks a jail should be a place for turning out productive members of society - time to test that with this person Trying to keep his ass out of jail maybe?
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 9:39:41 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 9:39:41 GMT -5
What has the attorney done for the $7500? Just give an educated guess.
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obelisk
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Post by obelisk on Jun 21, 2015 9:43:53 GMT -5
In CA the average cost including fees for a first DUI is 10K.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 21, 2015 9:46:55 GMT -5
In CA the average cost including fees for a first DUI is 10K.That alone would have me calling a cab
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NoNamePerson
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 9:50:40 GMT -5
Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 21, 2015 9:50:40 GMT -5
What has the attorney done for the $7500? Just give an educated guess. Me thinks you are asking the wrong people. Maybe you should be asking the drunk. Unless an attorney on the board wants to reply. Not an attorney and only having used one once in my lifetime I am clueless as to what an attorney does for someone with 5 DUI's.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 21, 2015 9:53:55 GMT -5
If he hasn't learned his lesson after DUI #1, #2, #3, and #4, what makes you think he will have learned his lesson with his 5th DUI?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 21, 2015 10:25:40 GMT -5
As someone who occasionally drives and who has children who are on and near roadways, I'm more worried about what needs to be done to keep this guy off the roads first and foremost. After 5 DUIs (heck, IMHO after 3), his driver's license should be permanently revoked because he's indicated through multiple actions over multiple years that he is not concerned enough with the safety of others to be ever entrusted with that choice again.
Every area handles it differently, but after multiple DUIs most areas would already have tried random testing, alcohol treatment, fines and a device attached to his car that prevents it from turning on if he's drunk; doesn't sound like any of that has influenced his behavior.
I don't know if jail, treatment or something else is most likely to result in helping him. And after his 5th DUI I'm a lot less worried about helping him than I am in protecting the rest of us from him. Figure out how to ensure he never drives again first then worry about how to help or rehabilitate him second. Then worry about the cost of his lawyer last.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 11:00:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 11:00:30 GMT -5
I think they should offer DUI offenders the choice to stop drinking for a number of years, say 5, and it not count as a DUI. The person who drove drunk should have to pay for all testing to prove he/she does not drink. I don't know how long you can test for alcohol though. I think hair samples might last for awhile.
It seems better to me to work at solving a problem then punishing. Sometimes punishment is more appropriate, not always, in my opinion.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 11:03:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 11:03:55 GMT -5
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NoNamePerson
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 11:10:35 GMT -5
Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 21, 2015 11:10:35 GMT -5
I think they should offer DUI offenders the choice to stop drinking for a number of years, say 5, and it not count as a DUI. The person who drove drunk should have to pay for all testing to prove he/she does not drink. I don't know how long you can test for alcohol though. I think hair samples might last for awhile. It seems better to me to work at solving a problem then punishing. Sometimes punishment is more appropriate, not always, in my opinion. How do you know people haven't tried to help him solve his problems. You cannot force a person to change. Apparently this drunk has no desire to change or get help. Only he can solve his problem. One day maybe he will get a clue just hope it happens before he kills a nice family of four. Oh, and taking away license rarely helps. How many times do we read "drunk drivers license suspended" but that doesn't keep them from behind the wheel.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 21, 2015 11:27:32 GMT -5
I think they should offer DUI offenders the choice to stop drinking for a number of years, say 5, and it not count as a DUI. The person who drove drunk should have to pay for all testing to prove he/she does not drink. I don't know how long you can test for alcohol though. I think hair samples might last for awhile. It seems better to me to work at solving a problem then punishing. Sometimes punishment is more appropriate, not always, in my opinion. Do you really think that drinkers are thinking this way? He's had 4 chances NOT to go to jail and apparently none of those chances sunk into him. Alcohol leaves the body fairly quickly, about 5 hours. That means your friend could tie one on at 8 pm and still be ok the next morning for his drug test. Hair testing tests drinking for the last 7-90 days, but you can circumvent that too. A friend's son was caught for his second DUI in NY. Daddy paid a LOT of $$ and called in some chits in that he didn't get the book thrown at him. Even then, his licence was suspended for a year, he spent several months in a counseling program and did community service - he just didn't have to do the jail time. Right now, if he drinks he tends to bunk down where he drinks until the next morning. He doesn't do it any more. It sounds like my friend's 23 year old son learned faster than your friend.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 11:35:10 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 11:35:10 GMT -5
I think they should offer DUI offenders the choice to stop drinking for a number of years, say 5, and it not count as a DUI. The person who drove drunk should have to pay for all testing to prove he/she does not drink. I don't know how long you can test for alcohol though. I think hair samples might last for awhile. It seems better to me to work at solving a problem then punishing. Sometimes punishment is more appropriate, not always, in my opinion. Do you really think that drinkers are thinking this way? He's had 4 chances NOT to go to jail and apparently none of those chances sunk into him. Alcohol leaves the body fairly quickly, about 5 hours. That means your friend could tie one on at 8 pm and still be ok the next morning for his drug test. Hair testing tests drinking for the last 7-90 days, but you can circumvent that too. A friend's son was caught for his second DUI in NY. Daddy paid a LOT of $$ and called in some chits in that he didn't get the book thrown at him. Even then, his licence was suspended for a year, he spent several months in a counseling program and did community service - he just didn't have to do the jail time. Right now, if he drinks he tends to bunk down where he drinks until the next morning. He doesn't do it any more. It sounds like my friend's 23 year old son learned faster than your friend. I just threw that out as a suggestion. Is there no workable solution like I proposed? He is not really a friend, just someone I worked with for a few days, before he went off to another jobsite.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 21, 2015 12:08:54 GMT -5
Is there no workable solution like I proposed?
I suspect your coworker has already gone through those suggestions after his first 4 DUIs. These days, even one DUI can have some pretty serious repercussions and he has gone through 4.
How many more DUIs does he need to get before he gets the message that he can't drink and drive? Does he have to kill someone? Do you really think that just testing is going to help if nothing else has up to this time?
I go on the board and read questions from people who are currently looking for jobs and they KNOW that they are going to be drug tested. Yet they continue to smoke, knowing that even though that they've been looking for work for a year, they are willing to jeopardize getting a job to smoke. I suspect it's not much different for your coworker, he has an alcohol addiction and is not willing to do anything about it.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 12:20:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 12:20:24 GMT -5
Is there no workable solution like I proposed?I suspect your coworker has already gone through those suggestions after his first 4 DUIs. These days, even one DUI can have some pretty serious repercussions and he has gone through 4. How many more DUIs does he need to get before he gets the message that he can't drink and drive? Does he have to kill someone? Do you really think that just testing is going to help if nothing else has up to this time? I go on the board and read questions from people who are currently looking for jobs and they KNOW that they are going to be drug tested. Yet they continue to smoke, knowing that even though that they've been looking for work for a year, they are willing to jeopardize getting a job to smoke. I suspect it's not much different for your coworker, he has an alcohol addiction and is not willing to do anything about it. If people know they will get caught and know they will go to jail, that might change things. I suspect most people who drive drunk do it dozens upon dozens if not hundreds of times without getting caught. I certainly drove drunk a lot in my twenties and never got caught. I am not arguing and realize you might be right. I just think that putting a guy in his 50s in jail for 2 years while he is at prime of work, has a wife, maybe kids, idk is problematic. It might be, as you seem to be saying, the best solution. I think there should be some way to verify that someone is not drinking and to have jail as a pretty quick and pretty certain result of drinking would work for some if not most. Again, I dont know and am just trying to think different solution.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 21, 2015 13:46:54 GMT -5
What's problematic is that he's had 4 DUIs previous to this one and none did a damn thing to change him. And yes alcohol counseling and classes are usually mandatory along with other things. Obviously that hasn't worked. Maybe 2 years of sitting in a cell sobering up might change something.
I personally find it disgraceful how easy it is to get out of jail time for DUIs. Maybe people would take them more seriously if they weren't only facing a fine and some classes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 13:51:36 GMT -5
Is there no workable solution like I proposed?I suspect your coworker has already gone through those suggestions after his first 4 DUIs. These days, even one DUI can have some pretty serious repercussions and he has gone through 4. How many more DUIs does he need to get before he gets the message that he can't drink and drive? Does he have to kill someone? Do you really think that just testing is going to help if nothing else has up to this time? I go on the board and read questions from people who are currently looking for jobs and they KNOW that they are going to be drug tested. Yet they continue to smoke, knowing that even though that they've been looking for work for a year, they are willing to jeopardize getting a job to smoke. I suspect it's not much different for your coworker, he has an alcohol addiction and is not willing to do anything about it. If people know they will get caught and know they will go to jail, that might change things. I suspect most people who drive drunk do it dozens upon dozens if not hundreds of times without getting caught. I certainly drove drunk a lot in my twenties and never got caught. I am not arguing and realize you might be right. I just think that putting a guy in his 50s in jail for 2 years while he is at prime of work, has a wife, maybe kids, idk is problematic. It might be, as you seem to be saying, the best solution. I think there should be some way to verify that someone is not drinking and to have jail as a pretty quick and pretty certain result of drinking would work for some if not most. Again, I dont know and am just trying to think different solution. But, he got caught FIVE TIMES. I think by now he should have a pretty good idea that it's at least a possibility and know what that means. In our state by the time you get 3 (or maybe even just 2), you get special plates put on your car so the odds are even higher of getting caught because the cops watch those cars closer. I get people making mistakes and that's why first offenses aren't usually as bad, but at some point he needed to take personal responsibility for what is obviously a problem for him. Instead he left it up to the justice system to deal with and I doubt the judge is going to buy the "I'm sorry, I'll never do it again" line at this point.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 21, 2015 14:38:46 GMT -5
Who do you suggest solve his problem? The responsibility lies with the drunk. Unless he thinks he is entitled to special treatment for being a drunk.
ETA Has fear of jail deterred thieves, murders, etc. No
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Jun 21, 2015 15:11:39 GMT -5
I feel bad for people who get stopped at checkpoints after a drink or two and end up with DUIs on their records. However, if this guy is on his 5th DUI, then at least a few of them are probably from him being pulled over because he was a danger to others. Jail/prison may not be the best solution, but he needs to either stop drinking for good or get off the roads.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 21, 2015 15:24:32 GMT -5
Tell him to switch to marijuana.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 21, 2015 15:29:29 GMT -5
Get drunk. Drive. Get large ticket. Go to court. Told DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE. IT'S ILLEGAL. Wash and repeat 4 times? I don't think so. He knows it's wrong. He wants to drink until he's sodden and then drive home. His wants should not take precedence over the lives of innocent people on the roads. He belongs in jail. As far as I'm concerned, he belonged in jail the second time he did it.
As to what the attorney does/did for his money, I don't know. I don't really care. There would have been no need to pay the attorney if the guy hadn't decided to drive drunk and, subsequently, gotten caught doing so 5 times.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 21, 2015 16:00:16 GMT -5
Is there no workable solution like I proposed?I suspect your coworker has already gone through those suggestions after his first 4 DUIs. These days, even one DUI can have some pretty serious repercussions and he has gone through 4. How many more DUIs does he need to get before he gets the message that he can't drink and drive? Does he have to kill someone? Do you really think that just testing is going to help if nothing else has up to this time? I go on the board and read questions from people who are currently looking for jobs and they KNOW that they are going to be drug tested. Yet they continue to smoke, knowing that even though that they've been looking for work for a year, they are willing to jeopardize getting a job to smoke. I suspect it's not much different for your coworker, he has an alcohol addiction and is not willing to do anything about it. If people know they will get caught and know they will go to jail, that might change things. I suspect most people who drive drunk do it dozens upon dozens if not hundreds of times without getting caught. I certainly drove drunk a lot in my twenties and never got caught. I am not arguing and realize you might be right. I just think that putting a guy in his 50s in jail for 2 years while he is at prime of work, has a wife, maybe kids, idk is problematic. It might be, as you seem to be saying, the best solution. I think there should be some way to verify that someone is not drinking and to have jail as a pretty quick and pretty certain result of drinking would work for some if not most. Again, I dont know and am just trying to think different solution. He knows how old he is and what his responsibilities are to his family, but apparently that is not as important to him as continuing to drink and drive. He knows what the potential consequences of his actions are, but he chooses not to alter his behavior. What makes you think letting him get away with it again will make him suddenly change his ways? He's not going to change as long as he keeps getting away with it. Maybe going to jail will be the rock bottom he needs to hit before he decides to change his behavior.
He's not some poor, hapless "victim" of an unfair legal system. He's a selfish, dangerous drunk driver who needs to be off the streets. If jail is the only way to make that happen, then so be it. He's had ample opportunity to choose to behave differently. The fact that he is in his prime earning years is irrelevant. He had a choice. He made his choice. Now he has he opportunity to experience the consequences of the choice he made.
What do you think would be "fair"? Should he just be allowed to keep getting away with it until he actually manages to kill someone?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 21, 2015 16:07:33 GMT -5
Something is seriously wrong with his wife for still being married to a drunk with no regard for his own life, let alone anyone else's. I hope she never was in the car with him and if she has kids, that she didn't let him drive them anywhere.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 21, 2015 16:09:05 GMT -5
We were told in alcohol school that the average person who ends up with a DUI drives under the influence 200 times before getting a DUI. Of course there were people in the class who got a DUI while driving under the influence only once or twice but plenty of people in there (myself included, hey I was young and dumb) helped bring that average up. There was an older gentleman who was on his 7th DUI but #7 was the first one in I don't remember how many years and most of the rest were back at a time when the cop would have him leave his car, drive him home and there was no jail time so it was basically a slap on the wrist. Getting one DUI over 10 years ago was enough of a deterrent to me. Giving offenders the choice to stop drinking with no real repercussions (let's not even think what the cost to administer all the tests would be) would not be a deterrent. Suspending licenses, threatening to take them away and jail time are much better deterrent and even that doesn't work for some people.
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Tennesseer
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 16:51:42 GMT -5
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 21, 2015 16:51:42 GMT -5
If people know they will get caught and know they will go to jail, that might change things. I suspect most people who drive drunk do it dozens upon dozens if not hundreds of times without getting caught. I certainly drove drunk a lot in my twenties and never got caught. I am not arguing and realize you might be right. I just think that putting a guy in his 50s in jail for 2 years while he is at prime of work, has a wife, maybe kids, idk is problematic. It might be, as you seem to be saying, the best solution. I think there should be some way to verify that someone is not drinking and to have jail as a pretty quick and pretty certain result of drinking would work for some if not most. Again, I dont know and am just trying to think different solution. But, he got caught FIVE TIMES. I think by now he should have a pretty good idea that it's at least a possibility and know what that means. In our state by the time you get 3 (or maybe even just 2), you get special plates put on your car so the odds are even higher of getting caught because the cops watch those cars closer. I get people making mistakes and that's why first offenses aren't usually as bad, but at some point he needed to take personal responsibility for what is obviously a problem for him. Instead he left it up to the justice system to deal with and I doubt the judge is going to buy the "I'm sorry, I'll never do it again" line at this point. I like that idea. I hope the drivers in Minnesota know what to look for with this type of license plate so they can call the police when they see careless driving.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 17:35:40 GMT -5
I do not understand why people think I am for letting him get away with drunk driving. I suggested that he be made to quit drinking and that him not drinking is verified at his expense. I also suggested or implied, (certainly think) that if he fails at the verification that he go to jail.
There are many victims to drunk driving. First and foremost are the people who are put at risk by drunk drivers. Another set of victims is the family of drunk drivers. It was mentioned above that the average cost of a 1st dui is $10,000. That money comes out of the family budget. Now it is certainly his fault that his family is suffering for this. Still his children, if he has any, are not to blame. If he goes to jail for 2 years, which is what others at work are saying, then that most likely changes his children from being middle class to poor. He makes ~$65,000. Again, it is his fault, but the children who go to poverty are not to blame.
Another set of victims is taxpayers. If he goes to jail for two year, someone has to pay for that. I suggested he pay for his verification and other expenses.
Lastly, if he fails and drinks, I think he should go to jail. Many have said he had 4 previous chances, which is true. But none of those, as far as I know forced him to quit drinking and verified that he did. If punishment is required then maybe a halfway house on weekends.
I am not really suggesting this is a perfect answer, but I wanted a discussion on other possible solutions to the problem of DUIs besides jail time and punishment. Sometimes I think people propose harsh remedies to show they recognize the problem is serious. I dont think punishment is always the answer to every bad choice, even serious bad choices.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 17:42:02 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 17:42:02 GMT -5
.....
What do you think would be "fair"? Should he just be allowed to keep getting away with it until he actually manages to kill someone?
I think often there is no "fair" solution, if by "fair" you mean the scales are balanced. I think a good solution is to force him as best we can to quit drinking. If that proves unworkable then jail. I gave my thoughts on how to force him in other posts. What do you think is fair for his children if he has any? That he go to jail for 2 years or that he be forced to give up alcohol? Certainly he is to blame for the predicament his children are in, but if society can mitigate that are little to no cost, then I think we should. Why does the solution I asked about not do that?
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jun 21, 2015 17:50:46 GMT -5
mmhmm likes this
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 17:50:46 GMT -5
I do not understand why people think I am for letting him get away with drunk driving. I suggested that he be made to quit drinking and that him not drinking is verified at his expense. I also suggested or implied, (certainly think) that if he fails at the verification that he go to jail. I'll bet anything a condition of his probation was NO DRINKING, NO BARS, NO EVEN BEING AROUND PEOPLE THAT ARE INTOXICATED and it could have been up to a 4 years probation on the first offense (but more likely two). It is really hard to enforce this, usually you only get charged with violation of probation if you're in trouble for something else and happen to be drinking or at a bar when it happens. Seriously, it's really hard to babysit everyone. The probation officers and courts are overwhelmed.
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