Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 15:55:39 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 15:55:39 GMT -5
::People are racist even if they do not say the word. I don't know where you work or what you do, but I would bet money that a good percentage of your co-workers would be upset if their child were to marry someone of a particular race.:: Just to clarify, this isn't even racism. If you aren't treating them poorly or believe that they are inferior due to race, it's not actually racist. (I suppose there's an argument to be made that if you don't want someone to marry your kid you're treating them poorly or inferior? Personally, I think a lot of people who want their own kids to marry within their race are seeking homogeny and not necessarily believing that others are inferior). I think there's often a pretty big misunderstanding that prejudice is far different from racism. LOTS of things are prejudice, I would venture to say that nearly everyone is prejudice, and MANY people are prejudice based on race. That doesn't equal racism. Prejudice: Black people love fried chicken. Racist: Black people are inferior to white people. ::I really don't get judging someone by the color of their skin at all. It reeks of hate to me...not "nice". :: I don't think most judgement based on skin color is all that hateful in real life. Most of it seems to be of the "you're white, so you like pop and country music, you won't like rap" "you're black, did you play basketball in high school?" "asians are good at math" "you're hispanic, so you're from Mexico right?" "You're from the Middle East so you must be Muslim". That's all judgement, which is prejudice. It's often wrong, but many times not hateful (I would say primarily ignorant as opposed to hateful). One of the things I don't think we do a good job of as a society is separating out ignorance from hatred. maybe I used the word wrong, I thought racist meant beliefs based on race
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hoops902
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Jul 13, 2015 16:01:18 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Jul 13, 2015 16:01:18 GMT -5
Anyone who has never talked to a passenger, had a child in the car they had to occasionally look at, read a billboard, listened to music, thought about something other than driving, listened to music, or adjusted any of the controls on the console is a less distracted driver than I'll ever be. Hats off to you!
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Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 16:07:31 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 16:07:31 GMT -5
I am 54 and work in construction. People are racist even if they do not say the word. I don't know where you work or what you do, but I would bet money that a good percentage of your co-workers would be upset if their child were to marry someone of a particular race. Maybe black or maybe some middle easterner or whatever. We live in a racist world, not saying some word or verbalizing it does not make it a better world, just a more covered up world. I am not saying that no one is racist, but I am saying it is almost an impossible standard to not have any prejudice and I think most here who claim that are full of it. Did you think the people bad talking southerners were hateful bigots? Take some guy you think is nice, and imagine him saying something racist, does that one sentence change the other ten thousand things he has said or the way he treats the people he meets or the integrity he shows? Racism is never going to go away because there is some stupid impossible standard that people say they live up to that is almost certainly bullshit, and they act so superior to others who are more honest in their prejudices. So many here want to project themselves as such pure beings, never did anything to put anyone at risk, never thought a pprejudicial thought, it is just bullshit. Do you think the Captain never allowed herself to become distracted whiile driving or to drive when she knew she was too tired but only a half hour from home. According to her she has never done anything that would put someone else at increased risk of injury. Maybe, but it doesn't fit my understanding of human kind. It is the same with people who say they have no racial prejudices at all, and can't even comprehend the idea. Your reply says far more about you and your own racism than anyone else. It's riddled with ignorance and naivety. your reply is nothing but insults ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
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Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 16:09:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 16:09:26 GMT -5
Your reply says far more about you and your own racism than anyone else. It's riddled with ignorance and naivety. I don't even know how this thread got onto racism or what he's trying to say...whew... I said one of the guys I worked with was a bit racist but still a nice guy. I was asking what people think about co-workers who are flawed
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Chocolate Lover
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Jul 13, 2015 16:21:18 GMT -5
Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 13, 2015 16:21:18 GMT -5
I don't even know how this thread got onto racism or what he's trying to say...whew... I said one of the guys I worked with was a bit racist but still a nice guy. I was asking what people think about co-workers who are flawedI lose a little respect for them every time they say something stupid. Until I can just tolerate them because I get paid to. None of them have been dumb enough to really REALLY say anything horrible though. You'd have to be extra stupid on top of being racist to do that at work. The father of my HS boyfriend might have been an intelligent, decent guy but let me tell you what I remember about him.. the ------ jokes. Horrible things that weren't funny but he thought they were great. I should have taken the hint and ran far far away from his son. I did eventually but I never had any liking or respect for that man.
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Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 16:22:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 16:22:37 GMT -5
so never fumbled in the purse for something? never looked down at a map? never dropped something and leaned over to find it? You are the one who said never, not me. No one thinks driving while drunk is okay.. You can say whatever you want about my argument but you cannot quote me saying anything close to that. I do not know you so cant say this about you, but I think most of the people here who say they have perfect standards are full of ----. And I think saying a person "never" does something is saying they have perfect standards. Umm...I'm guessing there are a lot of people here who never drink and drive. It's not about having perfect standards, it's about making good decisions. never drink and drive is different from never drive distracted. Never intentionally allowing oneself to be distracted while driving is an impossible standard. point taken though.
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Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 16:25:41 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 16:25:41 GMT -5
I said one of the guys I worked with was a bit racist but still a nice guy. I was asking what people think about co-workers who are flawedI lose a little respect for them every time they say something stupid. Until I can just tolerate them because I get paid to. None of them have been dumb enough to really REALLY say anything horrible though. You'd have to be extra stupid on top of being racist to do that at work. The father of my HS boyfriend might have been an intelligent, decent guy but let me tell you what I remember about him.. the ------ jokes. Horrible things that weren't funny but he thought they were great. I should have taken the hint and ran far far away from his son. I did eventually but I never had any liking or respect for that man. do you ever say something stupid?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 13, 2015 16:30:24 GMT -5
I lose a little respect for them every time they say something stupid. Until I can just tolerate them because I get paid to. None of them have been dumb enough to really REALLY say anything horrible though. You'd have to be extra stupid on top of being racist to do that at work. The father of my HS boyfriend might have been an intelligent, decent guy but let me tell you what I remember about him.. the ------ jokes. Horrible things that weren't funny but he thought they were great. I should have taken the hint and ran far far away from his son. I did eventually but I never had any liking or respect for that man. do you ever say something stupid? There's stupid and there's the stupid of our conversation. (on this thread) Play obtuse with someone else. You asked, I answered. Do you have any respect for your racist coworker? I wouldn't, even if I was civil to him. (because work/keeping a job requires me to be at least civil.)
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Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 16:35:47 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 16:35:47 GMT -5
do you ever say something stupid? There's stupid and there's the stupid of our conversation. (on this thread) Play obtuse with someone else. You asked, I answered. Do you have any respect for your racist coworker? I wouldn't, even if I was civil to him. (because work/keeping a job requires me to be at least civil.) You sound like a joy to work with. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png)
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hoops902
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Jul 13, 2015 16:41:22 GMT -5
midjd likes this
Post by hoops902 on Jul 13, 2015 16:41:22 GMT -5
The issue isn't saying something stupid I think. The issue people take is that anyone actually THINKS that way...and what they say is simply an outward identification that they do indeed think that way. So I don't care if someone says something that sounds racist, if I know they actually aren't racist. I do care that someone IS racist even if they never say it. This means I don't judge people too harshly if they make a racist joke or use a racist saying if they don't actually believe what they are saying or implying. (I mean I judge them for having terrible self awareness or sense of timing, but not necessarily for being racist).
As an example, I hear plenty of people say things like "Don't let him jew ya" meaning not to let someone take advantage of you financially (a crazy old neighbor told me to not let anyone "jew me down" on prices at a garage sale, and I've heard it other places as well). I was telling someone the story because I thought it was kind of unbelievable and their reaction was "so, what was the problem?" "Well...that implies that Jewish people are basically out to screw you over financially, so it's kind of weird to just up and say that isn't it?" "That's what it means? I thought it just meant cheap, I didn't know it actually referred to real Jewish people".
I hear plenty of people say racist sounding stuff about their best friends who happen to be that race. I'm of the belief that just becomes something SOUNDS racist doesn't mean the person who said it IS racist. What's important is what the person believes when it comes to determining if someone is racist. But since most of us are short on mind-reading, the words are simply the best indication. I wasn't offended when we were talking about sushi at work and someone said we should go ask Thuy (clearly because she's asian). We all love Thuy, it was a stupid thing to say, but they clearly didn't have any ill-will on the topic, they were just being stupid.
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Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 16:50:45 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 16:50:45 GMT -5
The issue isn't saying something stupid I think. The issue people take is that anyone actually THINKS that way...and what they say is simply an outward identification that they do indeed think that way. So I don't care if someone says something that sounds racist, if I know they actually aren't racist. I do care that someone IS racist even if they never say it. This means I don't judge people too harshly if they make a racist joke or use a racist saying if they don't actually believe what they are saying or implying. (I mean I judge them for having terrible self awareness or sense of timing, but not necessarily for being racist). As an example, I hear plenty of people say things like "Don't let him jew ya" meaning not to let someone take advantage of you financially (a crazy old neighbor told me to not let anyone "jew me down" on prices at a garage sale, and I've heard it other places as well). I was telling someone the story because I thought it was kind of unbelievable and their reaction was "so, what was the problem?" "Well...that implies that Jewish people are basically out to screw you over financially, so it's kind of weird to just up and say that isn't it?" "That's what it means? I thought it just meant cheap, I didn't know it actually referred to real Jewish people". I hear plenty of people say racist sounding stuff about their best friends who happen to be that race. I'm of the belief that just becomes something SOUNDS racist doesn't mean the person who said it IS racist. What's important is what the person believes when it comes to determining if someone is racist. But since most of us are short on mind-reading, the words are simply the best indication. I wasn't offended when we were talking about sushi at work and someone said we should go ask Thuy (clearly because she's asian). We all love Thuy, it was a stupid thing to say, but they clearly didn't have any ill-will on the topic, they were just being stupid. why do you care anything about the values of the people you work with, other then those job related? I like to enjoy my workday and that is easier if I don't be judgemental of co-workers. If someone is racist or has a bunch of DUI's or is an ex-con, what does it have to do with me? I can't change them. I just want to get through the work day.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 13, 2015 16:57:12 GMT -5
The issue isn't saying something stupid I think. The issue people take is that anyone actually THINKS that way...and what they say is simply an outward identification that they do indeed think that way. So I don't care if someone says something that sounds racist, if I know they actually aren't racist. I do care that someone IS racist even if they never say it. This means I don't judge people too harshly if they make a racist joke or use a racist saying if they don't actually believe what they are saying or implying. (I mean I judge them for having terrible self awareness or sense of timing, but not necessarily for being racist). As an example, I hear plenty of people say things like "Don't let him jew ya" meaning not to let someone take advantage of you financially (a crazy old neighbor told me to not let anyone "jew me down" on prices at a garage sale, and I've heard it other places as well). I was telling someone the story because I thought it was kind of unbelievable and their reaction was "so, what was the problem?" "Well...that implies that Jewish people are basically out to screw you over financially, so it's kind of weird to just up and say that isn't it?" "That's what it means? I thought it just meant cheap, I didn't know it actually referred to real Jewish people". I hear plenty of people say racist sounding stuff about their best friends who happen to be that race. I'm of the belief that just becomes something SOUNDS racist doesn't mean the person who said it IS racist. What's important is what the person believes when it comes to determining if someone is racist. But since most of us are short on mind-reading, the words are simply the best indication. I wasn't offended when we were talking about sushi at work and someone said we should go ask Thuy (clearly because she's asian). We all love Thuy, it was a stupid thing to say, but they clearly didn't have any ill-will on the topic, they were just being stupid. why do you care anything about the values of the people you work with, other then those job related? I like to enjoy my workday and that is easier if I don't be judgemental of co-workers. If someone is racist or has a bunch of DUI's or is an ex-con, what does it have to do with me? I can't change them. I just want to get through the work day. Then what was the point of this thread?
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Deleted
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Jul 13, 2015 17:00:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 17:00:32 GMT -5
why do you care anything about the values of the people you work with, other then those job related? I like to enjoy my workday and that is easier if I don't be judgemental of co-workers. If someone is racist or has a bunch of DUI's or is an ex-con, what does it have to do with me? I can't change them. I just want to get through the work day. Then what was the point of this thread? I just thought the idea of forcing someone to stop drinking was interesting. I tied it with the 5 DUI guy, because I just heard that that day, maybe, i dont remember.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 13, 2015 17:02:26 GMT -5
::why do you care anything about the values of the people you work with, other then those job related? I like to enjoy my workday and that is easier if I don't be judgemental of co-workers. If someone is racist or has a bunch of DUI's or is an ex-con, what does it have to do with me? I can't change them. I just want to get through the work day.::
Well:
1) You are judged by those you associate with. So I don't want to be known as "the guy who talks to the flaming racist all day". 2) I was primarily addressing the question of whether I would respect someone. I respect thoughts and actions. I don't necessarily lose much respect if someone says something they don't mean in a dumb way since we all do. 3) I'm not just trying to "get through the work day". There are people I like here. People I socialize with. People I need/want to network with in order to advance, get the assignments I want, help and be helped, etc. I have mentors, I have people I mentor. I don't necessarily want to be mentored by someone that everyone knows hates (insert race). It's not good for my career. 4) I'd much rather be friends/work associates with someone with a bunch of DUIs or is an ex-con, rather than someone who is going to embarrass themselves and potentially me by spouting off racist stuff sometimes. Part of that is the fact that I'm assuming the guy with the DUIs or the ex-con didn't do any of those things at work.
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NastyWoman
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Jul 13, 2015 21:09:13 GMT -5
Post by NastyWoman on Jul 13, 2015 21:09:13 GMT -5
Anyone who has never talked to a passenger, had a child in the car they had to occasionally look at, read a billboard, listened to music, thought about something other than driving, listened to music, or adjusted any of the controls on the console is a less distracted driver than I'll ever be. Hats off to you! and I'll call CPS on you since you must have abandoned your kid(s) somewhere ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 13, 2015 21:14:55 GMT -5
Holy Crap has this thread jumped the shark! Nice job!! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 14, 2015 14:32:06 GMT -5
There's stupid and there's the stupid of our conversation. (on this thread) Play obtuse with someone else. You asked, I answered. Do you have any respect for your racist coworker? I wouldn't, even if I was civil to him. (because work/keeping a job requires me to be at least civil.) You sound like a joy to work with. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/sad.png) I am, unless you're a bigoted douche. Even then, I'm still polite to you. I know how to play well with others, even if I dislike them.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 14, 2015 14:35:35 GMT -5
I know several people whom I thought were really nice people until they said something racist. The first time I hear it, I kind of let it roll off (unless it's something like stupid ni**ers) and assume they are having a bad day.
Each time they say something racist, my opinion of them sinks lower and lower. I will continue to interact with them pleasantly, but I won't hold that person in as high esteem as I did before.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2015 14:49:17 GMT -5
I can attest to one thing about habitual drinkers who drive while intoxicated ... the notion that telling them "either quit drinking or spend two years in jail" is going to stop them is naive, to say the least. It will not stop them. I've had them in the ICU for multiple stays (we call them "frequent fliers"). If telling them "either quit drinking or die" doesn't work, I don't think the threat of two years in jail is going to work much better. In fact, I'm sure it's not. They will drink and they will drive, if they're of a mind to do so.
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Deleted
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Jul 17, 2015 15:05:17 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 15:05:17 GMT -5
The guy with the DUIs was laid off last week. The guy running that job told him to just keep coming in. They are friends and ride into work together I think. The DUI guy got paid today, so I guess that worked out for him. I am getting this info second hand, so who knows how much is accurate ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) .
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 17, 2015 15:50:53 GMT -5
...I don't listen to the radio while driving.
I don't drive if I've had an alcoholic beverage in the last 6 hours, or if I am sleep deprived.
I don't adjust the AC unless at a traffic light.
I avoid talking while driving and sometimes tell my husband to shut up when he's talking.
I only look at my child while stopped at a traffic light, if then.
I am exceedingly cautious because I have an anxiety issue, and I would like to minimize my chances of being responsible of something terrible happening.
While I don't expect everyone to be as crazy cautious as me, I think basic things like not driving while impaired, not texting or reading while driving, and not putting on your damned makeup while in motion are things that anyone should be able to do. Even with a little leeway, the first time you have a close call or are pulled over, you should be permanently shaken out of the "it's different for me" complacency people fall into when something bad hasn't happened yet.
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Chocolate Lover
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Jul 17, 2015 15:54:30 GMT -5
Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 17, 2015 15:54:30 GMT -5
...I don't listen to the radio while driving. I don't drive if I've had an alcoholic beverage in the last 6 hours, or if I am sleep deprived. I don't adjust the AC unless at a traffic light. I avoid talking while driving and sometimes tell my husband to shut up when he's talking. I only look at my child while stopped at a traffic light, if then. I am exceedingly cautious because I have an anxiety issue, and I would like to minimize my chances of being responsible of something terrible happening. While I don't expect everyone to be as crazy cautious as me, I think basic things like not driving while impaired, not texting or reading while driving, and not putting on your damned makeup while in motion are things that anyone should be able to do. Even with a little leeway, the first time you have a close call or are pulled over, you should be permanently shaken out of the "it's different for me" complacency people fall into when something bad hasn't happened yet. You reminded me that years ago, before smart phones and texting and driving, I was passed by a person who had a book propped up in the middle of their steering wheel. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) I gave them lots and lots of space....
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 18, 2015 1:08:33 GMT -5
I would have no problem with repeated DUIs if there was some sort of guarantee that the person driving would kill himself rather than anybody else. If that were the case, then go for it. Unfortunately they are much more likely to kill other people. I honestly don't get the 5 DUIs, I really don't get it. DH's best friend in DHS went through this with both his kids ... one DUI each, no driving for a year, lawyer's fees, and huge fines. The kids couldn't get to work so after a while the parents resigned themselves to helping them get to work (after bringing them back home, that was their condition in order to help them get to work.)
My DS2 went through something similar ... the cops pulled DS2 over (his car, he was driving.) DS2 had NO record, but his friend did. The cops found the friend's pot in the car door where I'm guessing the friend put it when they were pulled over. DS2 stupidly said the pot was his because if his friend had had another incident, he would have gone to jail. STUPID DS2!!! DS2 lost his license for 18 months. It should have been 12 months but DS2 was just starting out in work and opted to postpone some of his court dates rather than miss work. DS2 has definitely learned his lesson. Don't drink or smoke and drive, and don't cover for you idjut friends!!! If my kid got a DUI, he'd be taking a bus to work, not getting a chauffeur.
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milee
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Jul 18, 2015 8:49:14 GMT -5
Post by milee on Jul 18, 2015 8:49:14 GMT -5
I know several people whom I thought were really nice people until they said something racist. The first time I hear it, I kind of let it roll off (unless it's something like stupid ni**ers) and assume they are having a bad day.
Similar here. I'm also starting to realize that even reasonable people can have very different definitions of what is "racist", so what one person assumes to be racist is not necessarily what another assumes to be racist. So unless it's something that IMHO is blatant and obvious, I want to know and understand a little more before I decide.
An example on this board was when one poster described an old joke about the Lone Ranger and Tonto. Something along the lines of what those two discussed at night... who's going to be on bottom. That was used as an example of discrimination against gay people and was described as using gay people as a punch line. Although I would consider that off-color (not something to tell at work, professional settings, with people I don't know), I didn't view the joke as indicating prejudice against gay people at all. To me, it didn't insult gay people or say being gay was bad, it was instead a way to poke fun at the prejudices of the general population (the general population assumes those two were just straight friends and this is a funny way to point out that we have no idea what their private relationship was) and assumptions by pointing out that things aren't always what they appear; that much loved people can be gay without anyone realizing it; and also to give a different perspective to people who claim they don't know any gay people (because they probably do know gay people, the gay people just aren't discussing their private lives in public.) So I didn't view that joke as homophobic, even though it was about and described gay people and involved joking. Similarly, there are times when minorities are discussed or even the "n" word is used, but the content of the discussion isn't racist.
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zibazinski
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Jul 18, 2015 10:26:32 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 18, 2015 10:26:32 GMT -5
I heard a Lone Ranger and Tonto one where Tonto basically says you're on your own white man!!
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zibazinski
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Jul 18, 2015 10:27:07 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 18, 2015 10:27:07 GMT -5
During Indian attack
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 18, 2015 12:37:42 GMT -5
I heard a Lone Ranger and Tonto one where Tonto basically says you're on your own white man!! I wait with bated breathe for an outraged response to the quote joke above from the poster offended by my Lone Ranger and Tonto punch line.
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zibazinski
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Jul 18, 2015 15:47:15 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 18, 2015 15:47:15 GMT -5
I thought I'd get one too. Like how dare you mock Native Americans by just calling them Indians. Or some such thing. Glad to know the PC police weren't waiting to wipe my ass all over the forum.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 18, 2015 17:15:41 GMT -5
I thought I'd get one too. Like how dare you mock Native Americans by just calling them Indians. Or some such thing. Glad to know the PC police weren't waiting to wipe my ass all over the forum. The night is young. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 18, 2015 17:31:17 GMT -5
Mickey Rooney got celebrated for his performance in "Breakfast at Tiffany's" in the 60s, and lambasted for it during the 50 year anniversary. People's idea of what is OK changes over time.
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