The "Ferguson Effect" - Surge in Crime Rates?

[formerroomate99]

Jun 1, 2015 18:52:45 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Jun 1, 2015 18:05:03 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

What if the public has grossly unrealistic expectations of how police should engage criminals? What if the police are dooming themselves to ineffective law enforcement by capturing their activities on film?

I'm reminded of the 1970's film "Titicut Follies" about life in a US mental institution. It created public outrage over how the patients were being treated, while doctors and nurses that actually worked in the institutions struggled to explain that such were the harsh realities of life. The movie was eventually banned in the US.

The public is not always reasonable. We've recently seen riots and blow-ups over cases where officers acted well within the parameters of their job.

As for the inquiries, the investigations are already supposed to be done by "responsible third parties", e.g. Internal Affairs. The harsher the investigators are, the less police trust them, the more they close ranks, and the harder it is for the investigators to do their jobs. In short, there's quite possibly no such thing as effective investigating by "responsible third parties". If there is, you'd think we'd have implemented it by now.

I think if there ever was a false dichotomy this is one.  If it were not one, I would choose people getting shot by criminals and a police dept that we can trust.  A government not for the people is a bigger danger then criminals gone wild.   And it is the better moral choice.  I am not complicit in a criminals choice.  Condoning dishonest policing, I would be.

But how far are you willing to go to have a perfect police force?   Any institution that is made of human beings is going to have bad apples and good people who make bad decisions. 

Are you willing to have 100 innocent people die to prevent one police shooting? 

1000? 

10,0000?

1,000,000? 

And would you still feel that way if your family was forced to live in the same neighborhood as the criminal class?  

[EVT1]

The 'criminal class'?  The Hamptons?

[zibazinski]

Jun 1, 2015 18:30:51 GMT -5 mroped said:

Problem with the psychopaths Virgil is that they can hide pretty well their feelings or intentions. But a well trained psychiatrist could figure that out.
The psychopats are easily detectable because they seem too perfect. There is a percentage of mistakes/awkward moments and so on in an interviu that is normal. If everything is perfect than that is a big red flag and further analysis is needed. It might be that the candidate is simply perfect but that is rare.
So to answer your question Joe Psyco should never make it. Even past a beginner psychiatrist!

Bull. First of all is the assumption they're "well trained." Secondly, I have seen so-called experts fooled time and time again. People are easily fooled and I think their training and even going into that field to begin with, almost like social work, sets them up to be easy marks.

[Deleted]

here is an interesting article on the Ferguson effect.  Apparently the author who proposed the idea was comparing different things to make her point, like murders to violent crime in one instance and the exact opposite in another.  She showed an increase by doing this, but could have just as easily showed a decrease.  It was just bias in reporting.

[Ombud]

Jun 1, 2015 18:52:45 GMT -5 @hickle said:

I would choose people getting shot by criminals

I agree. Get the cops out of poor inner cities and let them protect themselves. They've got more than enough guns to do it

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 12:48:13 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Jun 1, 2015 18:52:45 GMT -5 @hickle said:

I would choose people getting shot by criminals and a police dept that we can trust.  A government not for the people is a bigger danger then criminals gone wild.   And it is the better moral choice.  I am not complicit in a criminals choice.

I agree. Get the cops out of poor inner cities and let them protect themselves. They've got more than enough guns to do it

what does that mean?  Is it sarcasm?  I don't get the argument that if cops are killing too many poor black people then lets just dont police in areas with  poor black people.

[Ombud]

@hickle, sorry bout that. I didn't think it posted I hit post again and it apparently modified it. At least you've got the whole post.

If they don't want the police, pull them out. Im just sick and tired of hearing how a person pulls out a gun or is stopped after a robbery, gets shot, the cops / citizen protecting their self or doing their job gets the blame, and the righteous citizens destroy their town creating more blame-the-cop for protecting property. It's whatever they want ....

Pull em out, let em burn down their town, whatever

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 12:59:47 GMT -5 Ombud said:

@hickle, sorry bout that. I didn't think it posted I hit post again and it apparently modified it. At least you've got the whole post.

If they don't want the police, pull them out. Im just sick and tired of hearing how a person pulls out a gun or is stopped after a robbery, gets shot, the cops / citizen protecting their self gets the blame, and the righteous citizens destroy their town creating more blame-the-cop for protecting property. It's whatever they want ....

So if a bunch of black cops came into your neighborhood and killed  people, you would want no police in your neighborhood.  That seems like it would just be inviting a crime wave.  As far as a person pulling out a gun, that is not always the case and could easily be proved one way or the other if cops would wear cameras and keep them on and recording.  Some cops definately lie and do criminal behavior.  Why not root them out and prosecute?

[Ombud]

Jun 7, 2015 13:04:28 GMT -5 @hickle said:

So if a bunch of black cops came into your neighborhood and killed  people, you would want no police in your neighborhood.

now you've got it. Yes if a bunch of people came into my neighborhood and killed people, I would want them out. In that the inner cities don't seem to want cops, let them control their own streets with the guns they already have


FYI: own TASR stock a primary mfg of body cams so of course I want them worn but you might not want me weighing in on that.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 13:33:40 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Jun 7, 2015 13:04:28 GMT -5 @hickle said:

So if a bunch of black cops came into your neighborhood and killed  people, you would want no police in your neighborhood.

now you've got it. Yes if a bunch of people came into my neighborhood and killed people, I would want them out. In that the inner cities don't seem to want cops, let them control their own streets with the guns they already have


FYI: own TASR stock a primary mfg of body cams so of course I want them worn but you might not want me weighing in on that.

 I don't understand that thinking at all.  I am pretty much anti-government, so could think of some alternatives to police.  Still, just getting rid of police and not replacing with something, I dont know.  Also I can not understand why anyone would want to exempt police from investigations of criminal behavior if there are charges of that.  I think since they get to carry a gun and get the benefit of the doubt in most instances, I think they should be held to a higher standard not a lower one.

I guess different opinions is what makes a forum interesting though.