djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,122
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
Member is Online
|
Post by djAdvocate on Apr 20, 2015 11:00:52 GMT -5
dude. i make mistakes, too. i correct them. you CLAIMED you researched it, and i was simply asking for YOUR research, if you actually did it. ... Back to the basics, dj, remember the first rule of holes. not familiar with it.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,470
|
Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 11:07:59 GMT -5
Hmmm. An overlapping claim is that, in an 18th-century Presidential campaign, someone speaking against Jefferson's candidacy and in favor of that of John Adams accused Jefferson of being ... The reference in question appears in the "Seventeenth Baking," in which a "most veracious stump orator from Providence" spoke expansively on the achievements of [president] John Adams, ...
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,470
|
Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 11:10:19 GMT -5
Back to the basics, dj, remember the first rule of holes. not familiar with it. I would certainly encourage you to research it.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,122
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
Member is Online
|
Post by djAdvocate on Apr 20, 2015 11:11:38 GMT -5
I would certainly encourage you to research it. no link again? haha. ok, out of time for today.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,122
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
Member is Online
|
Post by djAdvocate on Apr 20, 2015 11:12:13 GMT -5
Hmmm. An overlapping claim is that, in an 18th-century Presidential campaign, someone speaking against Jefferson's candidacy and in favor of that of John Adams accused Jefferson of being ... The reference in question appears in the "Seventeenth Baking," in which a "most veracious stump orator from Providence" spoke expansively on the achievements of [president] John Adams, ... i have seen several references to the Adams campaign using this bit of heresay. troublesome.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,470
|
Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 11:18:43 GMT -5
I would certainly encourage you to research it. no link again? haha. ok, out of time for today. Have a great day.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 20, 2015 11:20:17 GMT -5
You and others are repeat this like a mantra, but what is it based on? History is history. When I learned about Watt inventing the steam engine, Edison inventing the incandescent lightbulb, Alexander the Great conquering the Medes, the last thing on my mind was a "white man" inventing the steam engine, a "white man" inventing the lightbulb, a "white man" conquering the Medes. The lessons were about what happened. How great inventions, rulers, empires, ideas, etc. shaped the history of western nations, not how "white men" shaped history. Am I somehow more connected to all these historical events because I'm white? Should a black student of history despair that Eurasian ancestry was integral to accomplishing them? You can't introduce "Black History Month" without reinforcing the message "blacks did these things; whites did everything else". Race should become relevant only when discussing the conflicts between races. Issues such as slavery in the US, the Underground Railroad, the US Civil War, the civil rights movement, etc. can't ignore race, for example. Insofar as I know, these topics feature prominently in US history classes for precisely this reason. Outside of race-on-race conflicts, what makes the nascent democracies of old Europe "white history", or the Industrial Revolution "white history", or the French rebellion against the aristocracy "white history" besides our forcing students to view it through that lens by segregating it from "black history"? Why are the histories of all these things not simply "history"? I say history is only "effectively White History" in your mind and the minds of those who choose to segregate history into 'black' and 'white'. If your goal is to inspire black kids to emulate great men/women, or to help them feel like a more integral part of society, you're not doing them any favours. you are so naiive that it is almost sweet. almost. I suppose I should start editing my posts to appear less so.
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Apr 20, 2015 17:56:17 GMT -5
Yes dj, I did wonder when is "white history month" and did so not because I'm racist or whoever you think but because just recently- maybe 8-10 yrs ago- I realized that there is a BHM I was educated in distant land, in a different way than what is done here. In history classes- there are on average two hours of study a week begining in fourth grade, for the whole school year- we were taught different. It may come as a surprise that in seventh grade I heard first about Frederick Douglas and La Amistad something that many American educated kids never hear of. Also another thing that some people are incredulous of is the fact that there were "negroes companies" that took to the battlefield during the civil war. Studied intensively the whole deal about the plight of slavery and discrimination and the civil rights movement. As a result of all that I kept wondering why is there BHM! So if there is a BHM, is there a WHM too? Race never constituted a problem, never even considered it while outside US. Once here, I realized that there is still discrimination, racial profiling and things like it.
So, how come 5000 miles away, kids are taught American history comprehensively and inclusive and American born, raised and educated here don't give a hoot about their own history? Is anybody else finding this odd?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,470
|
Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 18:02:09 GMT -5
... I was educated in distant land, ... Race never constituted a problem, never even considered it while outside US. ... A request: please refresh my memory of which that distant land" was.
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Apr 20, 2015 18:16:12 GMT -5
Romania
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,470
|
Post by billisonboard on Apr 20, 2015 18:34:22 GMT -5
Târgu Mureș?
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,155
|
Post by tallguy on Apr 20, 2015 19:25:41 GMT -5
Yes dj, I did wonder when is "white history month" and did so not because I'm racist or whoever you think but because just recently- maybe 8-10 yrs ago- I realized that there is a BHM I was educated in distant land, in a different way than what is done here. In history classes- there are on average two hours of study a week begining in fourth grade, for the whole school year- we were taught different. It may come as a surprise that in seventh grade I heard first about Frederick Douglas and La Amistad something that many American educated kids never hear of. Also another thing that some people are incredulous of is the fact that there were "negroes companies" that took to the battlefield during the civil war. Studied intensively the whole deal about the plight of slavery and discrimination and the civil rights movement. As a result of all that I kept wondering why is there BHM! So if there is a BHM, is there a WHM too? Race never constituted a problem, never even considered it while outside US. Once here, I realized that there is still discrimination, racial profiling and things like it. So, how come 5000 miles away, kids are taught American history comprehensively and inclusive and American born, raised and educated here don't give a hoot about their own history? Is anybody else finding this odd?No, I don't find it odd. Shameful, perhaps. White men are the ones who historically had a problem with black men. White men are the ones who wrote the history. Between the (relatively few) racists who de-emphasized if not indeed denigrated black accomplishments, and the (likely more) well-meaning who concentrated on those of their own race because that was what they knew best, I am not particularly surprised at the result. Kids 5000 miles away are likely free of the historical biases in what they are taught, so would effectively get a more complete and balanced presentation.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,473
|
Post by Tennesseer on Apr 20, 2015 19:44:15 GMT -5
Just a thought-Depending upon when Mroped learned his American history in school, it is possible Romanian history books were written to paint a negative picture of the U.S. by highlighting American slavery.
Could have been propaganda under Nicolae Ceaușescu.
.
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Apr 20, 2015 20:12:25 GMT -5
Nah! Born and raised on the eastern side of Romania-near a city-Vaslui and then high school at about 175 miles away in Galati on the Danube river. Tennesseer, you are right about the time period; it was under communism during Nicolae Ceausescu's regime. I wouldn't say that the U.S. was portraid negatively but it wasn't in bright colors either. There was always a question about social issues and why did it take so long from abolishing slavery to the actual giving of equal rights to the people of color. And why are women still paid less than men? I was lucky, I had great history teachers/professors given the fact that I'm a bit of a history buff. Relations of all types with African countries were at the center of Romanian foreign policy. Nelson Mandela was kept in high regards for his fight against apartheid. Just to make things even, there were other people that were kept in the state of "friends of the Romanian people". One name comes to mind:...Seko-ku-Ngbendu-Wazabanga(anybody knows the first name? ) But yeah! Color of skin meant nothing and it still does!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 15:50:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 20:17:39 GMT -5
Not yet... and we'll never get there as long as people think segregated things are the solution. It's sad to me what wasn't learned with the whole "separate but equal" thing back before the 60's. Blacks had their counters and water fountains and everything else... and Whites had all the rest. If that segregation wasn't acceptable, why is this segregation acceptable? Segregation should never be acceptable. We are all the HUMAN race. This isn't segregation. It is more like awareness. October being breast cancer awareness month doesn't mean we ignore it the other 11 months. It just means we focus on it a little extra. Everyone has breasts, and everyone can get breast cancer though (granted it's not AS common in males, but it DOES happen). So that's not a case of segregation. "Black" or "Chinese" or "Irish" or "Women in/of" for a cause of some kind ("History Month", for example) is segregational. Because, by nature, and by name, it's exclusionary of all others that don't have affiliation by the segregational specific exclusionary word.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 15:50:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 20:35:54 GMT -5
It's the exclusionary tactic employed by the pushers of "Black History Month". Look to THESE people as people to emulate... ignore anyone else. How about, instead people look for good people to emulate. Not "good Black people" or "good White people" or "good Asian people" or "good {any other skin color} people"... just plain old simple "good people" with no unnecessary limiter getting in the way of the "good" and the "people". i disagree that it is "ignore everyone else". it is more like "here is dessert", or if you prefer an academic analogy, an elective. they have already taken the core classes. they know OUR history. they don't really know their own, because, frankly, it is just not taught. i am sure you know who Howard Zinn is. Howard Zinn spent a lifetime talking about this issue. Never heard of him before this post (well... not that I recall anyway).
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,122
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
Member is Online
|
Post by djAdvocate on Apr 20, 2015 20:44:20 GMT -5
Yes dj, I did wonder when is "white history month" and did so not because I'm racist or whoever you think but because just recently- maybe 8-10 yrs ago- I realized that there is a BHM I was educated in distant land, in a different way than what is done here. In history classes- there are on average two hours of study a week begining in fourth grade, for the whole school year- we were taught different. It may come as a surprise that in seventh grade I heard first about Frederick Douglas and La Amistad something that many American educated kids never hear of. Also another thing that some people are incredulous of is the fact that there were "negroes companies" that took to the battlefield during the civil war. Studied intensively the whole deal about the plight of slavery and discrimination and the civil rights movement. As a result of all that I kept wondering why is there BHM! So if there is a BHM, is there a WHM too? Race never constituted a problem, never even considered it while outside US. Once here, I realized that there is still discrimination, racial profiling and things like it. So, how come 5000 miles away, kids are taught American history comprehensively and inclusive and American born, raised and educated here don't give a hoot about their own history? Is anybody else finding this odd? i object strenuously to the idea that there is some absolute "history" that exists outside of the social construct. therefore, history is a byproduct of the society in which it is written. particularly, in the US, history is a product of the class that runs the country: predominantly white, upper class, politically involved, and predominantly male. so, if you are hoping to see a study of worker's rights, unionization, the life of a slave on the plantation, a history of poverty among the working class, a study on the influence of migrant workers on the textile industry, etc, you can bloody well forget it. that is a special niche of history that is only for the PhD theses. however, if you are OUTSIDE OF THIS COUNTRY, the objectivity is much better. you are not writing through the lens of the New York Times, in all likelihood. nor are you subjected to the bias that we are really cool, virtuous, and always right.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 15:50:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 20:45:18 GMT -5
I have only just read this thread and maybe I'm wrong, not having grown up in this country, but from where I sit BHM is important for people of all races. It is not just about "I should be proud of my black heritage" but it is also "we should not dismiss people because their ancestors are from Africa". People of any heritage have "produced" great minds, humanitarians, artists, etc. And all white kids need to learn that too, especially those that live in an environment that wants to dismiss the accomplishments of those that do not look like them. So long story short: this thread has proven, if nothing else, that yes we do still need a BHM for the good of all of us. The day we don't have discussions like this anymore may be the day we can do away with BHM. straight up. it is probably MORE important for whites than blacks, candidly- because at least SOME blacks have learned the history of black America. most white folks are pretty much ignorant of it. no offense to those who Paul Robeson and Frederick Douglass are. None taken.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,122
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
Member is Online
|
Post by djAdvocate on Apr 20, 2015 21:10:01 GMT -5
i disagree that it is "ignore everyone else". it is more like "here is dessert", or if you prefer an academic analogy, an elective. they have already taken the core classes. they know OUR history. they don't really know their own, because, frankly, it is just not taught. i am sure you know who Howard Zinn is. Howard Zinn spent a lifetime talking about this issue. Never heard of him before this post (well... not that I recall anyway). really? he is a real liberal, but he is also a really great historian. he is also pretty much ignored by the establishment, as indicated in my previous post.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Apr 20, 2015 21:10:59 GMT -5
Yes dj, I did wonder when is "white history month" and did so not because I'm racist or whoever you think but because just recently- maybe 8-10 yrs ago- I realized that there is a BHM I was educated in distant land, in a different way than what is done here. In history classes- there are on average two hours of study a week begining in fourth grade, for the whole school year- we were taught different. It may come as a surprise that in seventh grade I heard first about Frederick Douglas and La Amistad something that many American educated kids never hear of. Also another thing that some people are incredulous of is the fact that there were "negroes companies" that took to the battlefield during the civil war. Studied intensively the whole deal about the plight of slavery and discrimination and the civil rights movement. As a result of all that I kept wondering why is there BHM! So if there is a BHM, is there a WHM too? Race never constituted a problem, never even considered it while outside US. Once here, I realized that there is still discrimination, racial profiling and things like it. So, how come 5000 miles away, kids are taught American history comprehensively and inclusive and American born, raised and educated here don't give a hoot about their own history? Is anybody else finding this odd? Were there many blacks in Romania when you lived there? I know in the USSR they were a rarity, and not liked at all. I heard people saying Not Very Nice Things about them. Very racist.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 20, 2015 21:13:50 GMT -5
It's not just slavery. Somebody posted a link to an article in the last couple days that talked about a county in Georgia that just had their first integrated prom last year. In 2013 and prior they were still having segregated white and black proms. In two thousand fucking thirteen! Let that sink in for a minute. I was born three decades ago and thought segregation was something you only read about in history classes because it died before I was born. Way to keep it backwards Georgia! I agree that a segregated prom is so unbelievably wrong....but I also think it is wrong to have Miss Black America but there would be an uproar if there was a Miss a White America, black negro college fund (I think i got that right) but not a white college fund, NAACP but not a NAAWP I am just as against reverse discrimination as I am regular discrimination.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 20, 2015 21:21:20 GMT -5
I'm white and I've been followed around a store by an employee multiple times. Are the black people this happens to sure it happens because they're black, and not for some other reason, like being a teenager, dressing different, or having a weird haistyle? It used to happen to me as a teen, when I had long hair that was dyed. The last incident I recall having in a store was with a customer. He didn't think my "ghetto ass" had any business in that part of town. Uhhhh, I have a nose ring that's so tiny it took my Mom almost a year to notice it. I had on some jeans and a t-shirt because I'd been working in my yard when my weedeater died. Maybe I was frowning because I was irritated that I had to stop and go buy another trimmer so I could finish my yard, and that's why I was ghetto. I hadn't even said anything when he said that, so it wasn't my speech that made me ghetto. I assume "ghetto" and "black" are the same thing to him. Whatever it was about me that made him say "ghetto", should have told him I wasn't going to scurry away and pretend he didn't say that. I can tell a huge difference in how Im treated when I'm in my professional clothes versus cleaning clothes...but yikes on him saying "ghetto ass" to you!
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Apr 20, 2015 21:26:08 GMT -5
Galati, where I went to high school was a University town so there were quiet a few African students. tuition must've been cheap . There was a whole cohort of students from Guynea(west Africa), Ivory Coast, Somalia, Madagascar and a few other countries that had claims on territorial waters in the Oceans. They were offering some degrees related to oceanic fishing. In exchange, the Romanian fishing fleet was allowed to fish in said waters or the ships were taken care of in their harbors. Mutual exchanges of favors kinda. A group of them was housed in our schools dormitories for a year so we helped them learn Romanian. Was realy fun! Then was the harbor on the river that contributed a lot on diversity in a way.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,122
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
Member is Online
|
Post by djAdvocate on Apr 20, 2015 21:31:13 GMT -5
Galati, where I went to high school was a University town so there were quiet a few African students. tuition must've been cheap . There was a whole cohort of students from Guynea(west Africa), Ivory Coast, Somalia, Madagascar and a few other countries that had claims on territorial waters in the Oceans. They were offering some degrees related to oceanic fishing. In exchange, the Romanian fishing fleet was allowed to fish in said waters or the ships were taken care of in their harbors. Mutual exchanges of favors kinda. A group of them was housed in our schools dormitories for a year so we helped them learn Romanian. Was realy fun! Then was the harbor on the river that contributed a lot on diversity in a way. some of the best music in the world comes from Romania, imo.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Apr 20, 2015 21:53:56 GMT -5
This isn't segregation. It is more like awareness. October being breast cancer awareness month doesn't mean we ignore it the other 11 months. It just means we focus on it a little extra. Everyone has breasts, and everyone can get breast cancer though (granted it's not AS common in males, but it DOES happen). So that's not a case of segregation. "Black" or "Chinese" or "Irish" or "Women in/of" for a cause of some kind ("History Month", for example) is segregational. Because, by nature, and by name, it's exclusionary of all others that don't have affiliation by the segregational specific exclusionary word. It is for everyone. Or do you think black history month is only designed to teach black people? No one is excluded in learning history due to their race. History is generally divided into units in order to teach effectively. It would make no sense to learn about ww2 and how my state was founded at the same time. Dividing out some portions of history that is related to blacks makes sense...slavery, the civil war, and the equal rights movement all fit together into a story of black history in this country. Doesn't mean you don't learn anything else about black history any other time of the year, but it is just the focus for that unit. You can continue to use the word segregation, but it doesn't apply.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Apr 20, 2015 22:11:14 GMT -5
I was fortunate enough to attend a Kwanzaa celebration at the Community College in Myrtle Beach. Part of the festivities involved a skit put on by some of the local Gullah population. It was not only entertaining, it was also informative - going into their heritage and culture. I was fascinated so, being me, cornered a couple of them after the performance to ask questions and give compliments. We ended up going out to dinner and just hanging out for the rest of the evening (and most of the night). Learned a ton and had a marvelous time. I learned a long time ago, if you want to learn about other cultures you've got to take a DIY attitude. It's served me well.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 29, 2024 15:50:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 22:41:16 GMT -5
Everyone has breasts, and everyone can get breast cancer though (granted it's not AS common in males, but it DOES happen). So that's not a case of segregation. "Black" or "Chinese" or "Irish" or "Women in/of" for a cause of some kind ("History Month", for example) is segregational. Because, by nature, and by name, it's exclusionary of all others that don't have affiliation by the segregational specific exclusionary word. It is for everyone. Or do you think black history month is only designed to teach black people? No one is excluded in learning history due to their race. History is generally divided into units in order to teach effectively. It would make no sense to learn about ww2 and how my state was founded at the same time. Dividing out some portions of history that is related to blacks makes sense...slavery, the civil war, and the equal rights movement all fit together into a story of black history in this country. Doesn't mean you don't learn anything else about black history any other time of the year, but it is just the focus for that unit. You can continue to use the word segregation, but it doesn't apply. It does apply. How much Chinese History is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events? How much Irish History is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events? How much White History is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events? I'll grant that SOME female history is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events... but I'll let you guess what race every single one of those females happens to be. And it's not about who can learn from it. It's about who it's targeted to, and what it's targeted about.
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Apr 20, 2015 23:16:24 GMT -5
i object strenuously to the idea that there is some absolute "history" that exists outside of the social construct. therefore, history is a byproduct of the society in which it is written. particularly, in the US, history is a product of the class that runs the country: predominantly white, upper class, politically involved, and predominantly male. so, if you are hoping to see a study of worker's rights, unionization, the life of a slave on the plantation, a history of poverty among the working class, a study on the influence of migrant workers on the textile industry, etc, you can bloody well forget it. that is a special niche of history that is only for the PhD theses. however, if you are OUTSIDE OF THIS COUNTRY, the objectivity is much better. you are not writing through the lens of the New York Times, in all likelihood. nor are you subjected to the bias that we are really cool, virtuous, and always right. I disagree- there is an absolute history- which I believe can be determined based on taking into consideration of those factors.
Not saying it is written or available- but that it does exist. An event happens- and there maybe 50 interpretations of it- like the great flood- but I think there is enough data to make some conclusions. But sure as shit there is a huge layer of bias and bullshit that has to be plowed through.
And I would like to support your point- there is a lot to be learned about our country from outside our country. That goes for the news especially- IMO if people are not looking at outside sources then they are just taking the local message as fact. If that is not seen as a problem I would ask those folks if they think the North Koreans should rely on their local news.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 21, 2015 9:41:20 GMT -5
@pinkcshmere: In a world where kids are bombarded with the message that black kids are black and white kids are white, black kids are one way and white kids are another, why are we set on teaching history in a way that conforms to this stark segregation? you don't have the foggiest idea of what Black History teaches, do you? Do you? I took this as a challenge to see if my understanding was flawed. A simple search provides countless BHM teaching resources. Two of the most comprehensive and most popular links returned by the search are found here and here. Other links have virtually identical content. Across the two sites, the breakdown of materials is roughly as follows: - Black Slavery (25%)
- Civil Rights Movement & MLK (45%)
- Jazz, Soul, Gospel Music (10%)
- Kwanzaa (5%)
- Black Inventors (5%)
- Other (10%)
So, here are some pertinent questions: - Do US gradeschool curricula not already cover slavery, abolition, segregation, and the US civil rights movement in reasonable detail?
As I've pointed out, Canadian curricula include these topics disproportionately to their practical significance to Canadians. We don't learn about the Roman Empire, East Asian history, WWI/WWII (in any significant detail), the history of the greater British Commonwealth, Middle Eastern history, South American history. Above all these, we learn about slavery in the US and Canada, the Civil Rights Movement, segregation, and abolitionism in our school curriculum.
Is this not also the case for US schools?
- Learning that blacks "invented" jazz, soul, hip-hop, and rap music, and whites "invented"... whatever it is history credits us with inventing (to read this thread, one would guess the answer is "everything"), helps our society how? Can white people not appreciate rap? Can blacks not appreciate Mozart? Do the origins and originators of musical genres not come up during the normal course of learning music? What conceivable benefit is there to pulling music out of a natural curriculum simply to point out "we invented this, they invented that, we invented this..."?
- Do you not see any negative ramifications to tying black identity so tightly to slavery, segregation, and the sins of our forefathers? Does this strike you as socially healthy? Is it likely to breed goodwill, forgiveness, and forward-looking attitudes in both blacks and non-blacks? Is it conducive to eliminating resentment, enmity, feelings of inferiority? Does it emphasize forgiving past and present evils in the spirit of cooperation today?
I'm not black, and perhaps it's true that I just can't understand, but I can't help but feel that if I was in a visible minority, nothing could possibly make me feel less integral to, less welcome by, and less appreciative of the rest of my society than "[Virgil's Minority] History Month" as codexed by these teaching resources.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Apr 21, 2015 9:50:24 GMT -5
It is for everyone. Or do you think black history month is only designed to teach black people? No one is excluded in learning history due to their race. History is generally divided into units in order to teach effectively. It would make no sense to learn about ww2 and how my state was founded at the same time. Dividing out some portions of history that is related to blacks makes sense...slavery, the civil war, and the equal rights movement all fit together into a story of black history in this country. Doesn't mean you don't learn anything else about black history any other time of the year, but it is just the focus for that unit. You can continue to use the word segregation, but it doesn't apply. It does apply. How much Chinese History is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events? How much Irish History is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events? How much White History is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events? I'll grant that SOME female history is taught in "Black History Month" programs/events... but I'll let you guess what race every single one of those females happens to be. And it's not about who can learn from it. It's about who it's targeted to, and what it's targeted about. IMO, this is like asking how much geometry is taught during algebra. Teaching is allowed to be separated into units. Not every subject/time period/location is going to be talked about at the same time. Why not ask how much black history gets taught when your learning about the religious conflicts in Ireland? That makes about as much sense.
Not every class is even going to be focused on black history during February, only if it applies to the subject matter. And honestly white history & black history in this country are very much entwined. I'm guessing a lot of white history gets covered during black history month, it would be absolutely silly to think that black history could be taught without mentioning white people.
Frankly I'm just going to drop it. You clearly have this entire argument built up in your head that doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me, and there is no use discussing it further with you. And just FYI, with this whole argument you really come across as "it isn't fair, they get their own month, waaaah". That may not be your intent, but that is how it comes across when you complain about something like this. Especially with the asinine 'segregation' argument.
|
|