NASA: California Has One Year of Water Left

[OldCoyote]

Take the water from the farms the price of fruit, vegetables and many other things will skyrocket.

Then you can import from somewhere else.   

[OldCoyote]

Mar 18, 2015 8:33:00 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Mar 18, 2015 8:13:42 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

We have to save the fishes, If we use up all the ocean water where will all the fishes live??

LOL! Thanks! I figured that was a strong dose of bull hockey but decided to give it a chance. 

NOT oldcoyote.

[mmhmm]

Mar 18, 2015 8:39:18 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Mar 18, 2015 8:33:00 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

LOL! Thanks! I figured that was a strong dose of bull hockey but decided to give it a chance. 

NOT oldcoyote.

But, of course not! Perish the thought! 

[Tennesseer]

Mar 18, 2015 7:42:17 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 18, 2015 6:18:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Tennesseer, sorry I did not respond to your last question to me, but I was not here at the time. As you can see, Dark answered the question for me.
It's a start!
As far as picking crops, this falls under the law of unintended consequences. We will have to work on that issue.

My THOUGHTS?
Have the able bodied people on welfare for more than two years undergo work in the fields, to continue benefits.
Either the crops get picked, or welfare benefits drop.

There won't be crops if water gets so expensive farmers can't afford to irrigate.

So I don't think your dream to make welfare people toil in the fields will actually come to fruition.

Just signed in and saw this response. You beat me to the same response by an hour or so.

[happyhoix]

Mar 18, 2015 7:54:27 GMT -5 justme said:

Salt water pools are made by taking fresh water and adding salt to it. So I don't know how they're any better than regular pools. Though at least in California they're filled year round so it's not like every spring everyone takes a ton of water.

I was thinking of those pools along the coast that actually use piped in sea water.

If you're too far inland to use sea water, you don't get to go swimming - not in a water strapped area, anyway.

[happyhoix]

Mar 18, 2015 8:37:52 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Take the water from the farms the price of fruit, vegetables and many other things will skyrocket.

Then you can import from somewhere else.   

Yes, this is the dilemma. They can't have BOTH agriculture and a large human population that goes golfing, not with the available water. 

Raise the water prices and you run agriculture out of business, so food prices go up. 

Raise the water prices but not on agriculture, agriculture continues to use large amounts of water while home owners pay out the nose - you end up with a lot of people and industrial businesses relocating to an area where water isn't so expensive, and California ends up a quiet, low population agricultural state. 

Or they can keep doing nothing (which is probably what they will do), start having water shortages and water rationing and then fight about.  

[Tennesseer]

Mar 18, 2015 8:21:03 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

I see opportunity here. yes!!

1. I have water for sale, $10.00 a gallon, you haul.

2. If you are thinking of moving,  Contrary to one of my post AZ. is a terrible place to move to. Yes !

Oldcoyote lives there,  you might end up  my neighbor,  That only should scare the bejeeesas out of you. (I just made up that word)

Maybe there are some ice floes around Tahiti where you claimed the French Polonesian waters were colder than around Alaska. You could lasso them and drag them to Phoenx.

[Tennesseer]

What would Las Vegas, the driest large city in the U.S., be without all its hotels' outdoor water fountains and 60 plus golf courses.

[justme]

Mar 18, 2015 9:48:29 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 18, 2015 7:54:27 GMT -5 justme said:

Salt water pools are made by taking fresh water and adding salt to it. So I don't know how they're any better than regular pools. Though at least in California they're filled year round so it's not like every spring everyone takes a ton of water.

I was thinking of those pools along the coast that actually use piped in sea water.

If you're too far inland to use sea water, you don't get to go swimming - not in a water strapped area, anyway.

There are pools that use piped seawater? Must be for hotels or something, I've never heard of it nor did one quick Google pop anything.

Residential saltwater pools have lower salt levels than ocean water, about ten times lower. Which achieved by adding salt bags to fresh water (technically the ppm are low enough for it to still be considered fresh water). It's not the salt directly that keeps the pool clean, the salt is converted into a type of chlorine to clean the pool.

[myrrh]

I've always thought it was rather ridiculous that many of the former farms and orchards in CA are now subdivisions and many of the new farms and orchards are in the middle of the desert. Not sure what can be done about it now, just wish there had been more thought put into urban sprawl.

And I've heard that many homes in northern California don't have water meters which totally boggles my mind living in New Mexico. During the winter my monthly water bill is over $70 per month and we use around 4000 gallons of water per month. That's 133 gallons per day for a family of 4-5 (MIL lives with us during the week). Of course it's higher in the summer because I try to keep a few tomato plants and fruit trees alive.

[ArchietheDragon]

Are we sure NASA wasn't looking at the moon by mistake?

[wyouser]

California has been a big draw for humans for a very long time due to its climate. Humans love it. It has never had an unlimited supply of water. The population is bumping up against the upper limits of water supply. Drought aggravates this, but it would happen at some point anyway. So at the moment multi use of water is the issue. Grow food or provide water to humans? Also an issue between states over "water rights". Perhaps government needs to get out of the way (15 years to approve a desalinization plant?) 

[myrrh]

You mean the "California does it, therefore the rest of the country will soon follow" type of thinking?

And the crazy part is they really do believe it.

[wyouser]

Mar 18, 2015 11:24:02 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

The only thing that worries me about CA running out water is that it will force people to move thereby spreading their special brand of lunacy throughout the rest of the country. I'm willing to admit that in this case I am totally in favor of containment. 

Boots on the ground, fence around the borders, naval patrol boats off the coast kind of containment?

[happyhoix]

Mar 18, 2015 11:02:26 GMT -5 wyouser said:

California has been a big draw for humans for a very long time due to its climate. Humans love it. It has never had an unlimited supply of water. The population is bumping up against the upper limits of water supply. Drought aggravates this, but it would happen at some point anyway. So at the moment multi use of water is the issue. Grow food or provide water to humans? Also an issue between states over "water rights". Perhaps government needs to get out of the way (15 years to approve a desalinization plant?) 

I'm totally guessing here, but I'm guessing that the reason it took 15 years to get the thing approved had more to do with locals fighting about where to locate it (the Not In My Backyard thing) then the big federal government imposing rules about it.

I know what happens when a community decides it needs a new landfill or a hazardous waste incinerator - or even a wind farm. Everyone agrees we need one, and no one wants it anyplace near them. Assuming this had to sit on prime real estate (on the coastline) in beautiful, very high COL California, and assuming everyone who had property within a few miles of it could expect a big drop in their property values, I imagine there was a whole lot of bickering over who exactly would get stuck next door to the big ugly desalinization plant.

[happyhoix]

Mar 18, 2015 10:22:11 GMT -5 justme said:

Mar 18, 2015 9:48:29 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I was thinking of those pools along the coast that actually use piped in sea water.

If you're too far inland to use sea water, you don't get to go swimming - not in a water strapped area, anyway.

There are pools that use piped seawater? Must be for hotels or something, I've never heard of it nor did one quick Google pop anything.

Residential saltwater pools have lower salt levels than ocean water, about ten times lower. Which achieved by adding salt bags to fresh water (technically the ppm are low enough for it to still be considered fresh water). It's not the salt directly that keeps the pool clean, the salt is converted into a type of chlorine to clean the pool.

Here's an article about the world's largest seawater swimming pool:

www.gizmag.com/worlds-biggest-and-deepest-swimming-pools/8891/

And apparently cruise ships use filtered sea water - I guess that's better than filtered grey water from the laundry washing machines  - or pee water

nspf.org/Files/cdccruiseshipregs.pdf

[weltschmerz]

All water is pee water. The amount of water on this planet remains constant. Everyone from dinosaurs to Neanderthals have been peeing in it since time immemorial.

[justme]

Mar 18, 2015 13:11:09 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 18, 2015 10:22:11 GMT -5 justme said:

There are pools that use piped seawater? Must be for hotels or something, I've never heard of it nor did one quick Google pop anything.

Residential saltwater pools have lower salt levels than ocean water, about ten times lower. Which achieved by adding salt bags to fresh water (technically the ppm are low enough for it to still be considered fresh water). It's not the salt directly that keeps the pool clean, the salt is converted into a type of chlorine to clean the pool.

Here's an article about the world's largest seawater swimming pool:

www.gizmag.com/worlds-biggest-and-deepest-swimming-pools/8891/

And apparently cruise ships use filtered sea water - I guess that's better than filtered grey water from the laundry washing machines  - or pee water

nspf.org/Files/cdccruiseshipregs.pdf

Forgot about cruise boats, but I was figuring you were talking about those massive pools at resorts. Though I don't think that's a possibility for an average individual.

[bean29]

Mar 18, 2015 10:42:26 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Haha..I remember when California got the bright idea to pipe water from the Great Lakes. 

articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/28/nation/na-water28

I applaud the decision to create the consortium of Great Lakes states and provinces. Why yes I often point and laugh at the county next door that whines they can't have any of Lake Michigan. 

Waukesha may well get Lake Michigan water, I don't know if that will set a precedent for others getting Great Lakes H2O or not though.

We should know soon if Waukesha wins the Water Lottery or not.

[happyhoix]

Mar 18, 2015 13:56:23 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Mar 18, 2015 10:42:26 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Haha..I remember when California got the bright idea to pipe water from the Great Lakes. 

articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/28/nation/na-water28

I applaud the decision to create the consortium of Great Lakes states and provinces. Why yes I often point and laugh at the county next door that whines they can't have any of Lake Michigan. 

Waukesha may well get Lake Michigan water, I don't know if that will set a precedent for others getting Great Lakes H2O or not though.

We should know soon if Waukesha wins the Water Lottery or not.

We're having a water war here, too. Atlanta gets it's water from Lake Lanier, and needs more water (although if we cut off the water and let Atlanta shrink down a bit in size that would be an excellent thing).

Atlanta has tried to siphon off water from the TN river through Chattanooga, even trying to sweeten the pot by dangling an offer of building a high speed rail line between the two cities, but no go.

Now Georgia has gone back to some old survey maps that shows a chunk of TN actually originally belonged to GA - a chunk that just happens to border Lake Nickajack, a TVA lake on the TN River. They offered to give the land to TN if they are allowed to run a water pipe through it - TN says it doesn't need to be given what it already owns.

I think the case is on the way to the supreme court.

[kent]

Mar 18, 2015 11:24:02 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

The only thing that worries me about CA running out water is that it will force people to move thereby spreading their special brand of lunacy throughout the rest of the country. I'm willing to admit that in this case I am totally in favor of containment. 

Uhm.  The "special brand of lunacy" is already reflected in election results - a roughly 50/50 split nationwide as it stands today.  When that lunacy "spreads" further things will be a bigger mess than they are now with the vast majority of people on board the entitlement train but without somebody else to pay their way.  Talk about civil unrest - you ain't seen nothin yet......

[djAdvocate]

Mar 18, 2015 8:31:23 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

Water is not priced appropriately in California to signal its scarcity.
For example
"In Fresno, which gets less than 11 inches of rain a year, a family of four using 400 gallons a day faces a monthly water bill of $28.26. In Boston, where rainfall exceeds 40 inches, the same family would pay $77.73."
And i think it is worse for Farmers, the price of water should be allowed to rise

farmers are the problem.  80% of all water resources are consumed by irrigation, and half of it is wasted.  farmers don't pay anywhere close to full value for water.  they don't even pay cost of transportation.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 18, 2015 9:55:20 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 18, 2015 8:37:52 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Take the water from the farms the price of fruit, vegetables and many other things will skyrocket.

Then you can import from somewhere else.   

Yes, this is the dilemma. They can't have BOTH agriculture and a large human population that goes golfing, not with the available water. 

you want to see that problem exemplified?  go visit Prescott or Phoenix, AZ.  they get almost no rainfall in that state, but golfing and lush lawns are everywhere.

imo: we should ban lawns.  they are stupid.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 18, 2015 11:02:26 GMT -5 wyouser said:

California has been a big draw for humans for a very long time due to its climate. Humans love it. It has never had an unlimited supply of water. The population is bumping up against the upper limits of water supply. Drought aggravates this, but it would happen at some point anyway. So at the moment multi use of water is the issue. Grow food or provide water to humans? Also an issue between states over "water rights". Perhaps government needs to get out of the way (15 years to approve a desalinization plant?) 

parts of the state are entirely self sufficient.  in fact, were it not for the aqueduct, there would be no shortage of water whatsoever, for the counties that actually generate the stuff.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 18, 2015 13:19:08 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

All water is pee water. The amount of water on this planet remains constant. Everyone from dinosaurs to Neanderthals have been peeing in it since time immemorial.

ew.  i am drinking the soluble salts of dinosaurs?  gross. 

[djAdvocate]

Mar 18, 2015 15:11:37 GMT -5 kent said:

Mar 18, 2015 11:24:02 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

The only thing that worries me about CA running out water is that it will force people to move thereby spreading their special brand of lunacy throughout the rest of the country. I'm willing to admit that in this case I am totally in favor of containment. 

Uhm.  The "special brand of lunacy" is already reflected in election results - a roughly 50/50 split nationwide as it stands today.  When that lunacy "spreads" further things will be a bigger mess than they are now with the vast majority of people on board the entitlement train but without somebody else to pay their way.  Talk about civil unrest - you ain't seen nothin yet......

i agree.  but i doubt we agree on what we are likely to see.

[kent]

Mar 18, 2015 18:27:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 18, 2015 15:11:37 GMT -5 kent said:

Uhm.  The "special brand of lunacy" is already reflected in election results - a roughly 50/50 split nationwide as it stands today.  When that lunacy "spreads" further things will be a bigger mess than they are now with the vast majority of people on board the entitlement train but without somebody else to pay their way.  Talk about civil unrest - you ain't seen nothin yet......

i agree.  but i doubt we agree on what we are likely to see.

I would be interested in how you would see it playing out.  As I said, I predict their would be massive civil unrest at some point and that the defecation would hit the rotary oscillator - a societal meltdown if you will.  It wouldn't happen right off the bat like it would if the power grid went down because there would still be water available, just not easy to get.  

[djAdvocate]

Mar 18, 2015 19:08:23 GMT -5 kent said:

Mar 18, 2015 18:27:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i agree.  but i doubt we agree on what we are likely to see.

I would be interested in how you would see it playing out.  As I said, I predict their would be massive civil unrest at some point and that the defecation would hit the rotary oscillator - a societal meltdown if you will.  It wouldn't happen right off the bat like it would if the power grid went down because there would still be water available, just not easy to get.  

i think it is very unlikely that we will have an institutional collapse, which really only leads to one conclusion: massive reform.  and i really DO think it will happen, tho perhaps not on my lifetime.  that is, i will admit, an optimistic view.  but what i think needs to happen is that people realize that we actually have a lot in common in terms of our social, economic and political goals, and that the big money is in dividing us against our own interests along truly arbitrary politcal strata- political strata that make it possible to enlist the support of someone that is actually being HURT by the policies he or she is voting for.  if we had a national AHA moment, everything would change in one election cycle.

it won't go that way.

[fairlycrazy23]

Mar 18, 2015 18:22:11 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 18, 2015 9:55:20 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Yes, this is the dilemma. They can't have BOTH agriculture and a large human population that goes golfing, not with the available water. 

you want to see that problem exemplified?  go visit Prescott or Phoenix, AZ.  they get almost no rainfall in that state, but golfing and lush lawns are everywhere.

imo: we should ban lawns.  they are stupid.

No, just charge them appropriately for there water usage. A lot of water is priced so that the more you use , the cheaper it gets.

[wyouser]

Mar 18, 2015 18:25:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 18, 2015 11:02:26 GMT -5 wyouser said:

California has been a big draw for humans for a very long time due to its climate. Humans love it. It has never had an unlimited supply of water. The population is bumping up against the upper limits of water supply. Drought aggravates this, but it would happen at some point anyway. So at the moment multi use of water is the issue. Grow food or provide water to humans? Also an issue between states over "water rights". Perhaps government needs to get out of the way (15 years to approve a desalinization plant?) 

parts of the state are entirely self sufficient.  in fact, were it not for the aqueduct, there would be no shortage of water whatsoever, for the counties that actually generate the stuff.

Agreed, but the bulk of the population lives in the south along the coast where there is not unlimited water. Large irrigated agricultural region also located close to this population.