The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 10, 2015 13:49:00 GMT -5
www.yahoo.com/parenting/h-s-principal-under-fire-for-excluding-white-113187331852.html"School principal and event organizer Nathaniel Rouse explained his thinking to the newspaper. “First and foremost, this is not meant to give a connotation that we were trying to be exclusive,” he said, adding that the decision to allow only black students was based on the philosophy known as “affinity grouping,” which allows people of one racial or other subgroup to be able to express themselves fully and safely. “I believe that the discussion will help us as a school begin talking about race in a deeper and more meaningful way than ever before — and most important, produce change,” As someone who belonged to a female only gym I get the concept. However, I'm not sure how excluding anyone from a dialogue about race will produce positive change. Discuss? Do you think the principal made the right call?
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Mar 10, 2015 13:58:38 GMT -5
So his thinking is that exclusion of one race from the discussion group will produce affinity?
It seems that would have an opposite effect - and create more racial tension or segregation - rather than creating unity.
"Affinity Grouping" is usually the formation of groups that share the same interest.
Shouldn't ALL high school students be on the same path - to get an education and graduate? Why the need to separate races for discussion groups? Seems counter-productive (IMO).
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 10, 2015 14:04:31 GMT -5
He also said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino, and Asian students, to be followed by a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together. (from the link in the OP) Smart would have been to have all those things planned and on the calendar from the start.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2015 15:15:28 GMT -5
He also said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino, and Asian students, to be followed by a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together. (from the link in the OP) Smart would have been to have all those things planned and on the calendar from the start. Very true. But you have to start somewhere by taking the first step.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 10, 2015 15:27:43 GMT -5
He also said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino, and Asian students, to be followed by a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together. (from the link in the OP) Smart would have been to have all those things planned and on the calendar from the start. Very true. But you have to start somewhere by taking the first step. By excluding Whites? What if there was some hatred displayed in spoken words about whites? Would that be ok?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 10, 2015 15:33:30 GMT -5
Very true. But you have to start somewhere by taking the first step. By excluding Whites? What if there was some hatred displayed in spoken words about whites? Would that be ok? It would simply be. How the adult facilitators of the event handled it would be open for determination of "okay'ness". If it came from those adults, it would not be okay.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2015 15:36:49 GMT -5
Very true. But you have to start somewhere by taking the first step. By excluding Whites? What if there was some hatred displayed in spoken words about whites? Would that be ok? So you want both blacks and whites high school students in the same meeting. You are soooooo sure you know how the students will react on such a sensitive subject. These are high school kids raging with hormones. I can just picture all the free-for-all. Speak with the black students first and look for the leaders and those who can intelligently articulate the issue as they are a minority in the school. Then speak with the white students and look for the leaders and those can intelligently articulate the issue as they are the majority race in the school. Do the same for the Hispanic and Asian students too. The school is looking for a productive discussion and not a melee.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 10, 2015 15:39:05 GMT -5
By excluding Whites? What if there was some hatred displayed in spoken words about whites? Would that be ok? It would simply be. How the adult facilitators of the event handled it would be open for determination of "okay'ness". If it came from those adults, it would not be okay. And yet a Fraternity is banned for using the N word in a ditty, that was taped. If it had not been taped, everything would still be status quo. I totally agree with the banning of the Frat house, not quite sure about the expulsions, but do not accept double standards. Since we do not have any video or tape, we will never know, will we?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 10, 2015 15:41:17 GMT -5
... And yet a Fraternity ... College students - high school students. I have no problem with a different standard.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 10, 2015 15:46:24 GMT -5
By excluding Whites? What if there was some hatred displayed in spoken words about whites? Would that be ok? So you want both blacks and whites high school students in the same meeting. You are soooooo sure you know how the students will react on such a sensitive subject. These are high school kids raging with hormones. I can just picture all the free-for-all. Speak with the black students first and look for the leaders and those who can intelligently articulate the issue as they are a minority in the school. Then speak with the white students and look for the leaders and those can intelligently articulate the issue as they are the majority race in the school. Do the same for the Hispanic and Asian students too. The school is looking for a productive discussion and not a melee. I prefer to give our youth much more credit. Why would you believe people of mixed backgrounds couldn't meet without getting into a brawl?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 10, 2015 15:52:40 GMT -5
... I prefer to give our youth much more credit. Why would you believe people of mixed backgrounds couldn't meet without getting into a brawl? That is my preference also. But personal experience requires me to ignore my preference in this case.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2015 16:01:43 GMT -5
So you want both blacks and whites high school students in the same meeting. You are soooooo sure you know how the students will react on such a sensitive subject. These are high school kids raging with hormones. I can just picture all the free-for-all. Speak with the black students first and look for the leaders and those who can intelligently articulate the issue as they are a minority in the school. Then speak with the white students and look for the leaders and those can intelligently articulate the issue as they are the majority race in the school. Do the same for the Hispanic and Asian students too. The school is looking for a productive discussion and not a melee. I prefer to give our youth much more credit. Why would you believe people of mixed backgrounds couldn't meet without getting into a brawl? How do you know they won't? Where I live, high school students, both boys and girls, black and white, fight, even on school grounds. Hell-even the junior high school students fight. Let's say the issue isn't 'Why Black Lives Matter'. Let's say the issue is the real and perceived sexual harassment of the female students. The administration has no concrete evidence it is happening but he administration have heard there are rumblings among the female students. Would you not want to first hear from the female students as to what is going on and not have them have to worry expressing themselves in the auditorium in front of the male students, some of who may be guilty of harassment. I would imagine it can be quite intimidating for some of the female students to speak up, especially if they are unsure if what is happening to them is really sexual harassment. Once you know what the issues are, the administration can address all the students at the same time without having to identify the females who spoke up. Just my opinion and take. 'Why Black Lives Matter' and sexual harassment at school are both serious issues.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 10, 2015 16:15:49 GMT -5
I prefer to give our youth much more credit. Why would you believe people of mixed backgrounds couldn't meet without getting into a brawl? How do you know they won't? Where I live, high school students, both boys and girls, black and white, fight, even on school grounds. Hell-even the junior high school students fight. Let's say the issue isn't 'Why Black Lives Matter' Let's say the issue is the real and perceived sexual harassment of the female students. The administration has no concrete evidence it is happening but he administration have heard there are rumblings among the female students. Would you not want to first hear from the female students as to what is going on and not have them have to worry expressing themselves in the auditorium in front of the male students, some of who may be guilty of harassment. I would imagine it can be quite intimidating for some of the female students to speak up, especially if they are unsure if what is happening to them is really sexual harassment. Once you know what the issues are, the administration can address all the students at the same time without having to identify the females who spoke up. Just my opinion and take. 'Why Black Lives Matter' and sexual harassment at school are both serious issues. Every public demonstration showing the expression "Black lives matter" are heavily backed by participation of young and old white people. In fact some demonstrations show close to a 50% or even more participation by white people. No, I cannot back that stat up, but the camera does not distort the presentation, unlike some other pictures presented. I think our youngsters can figure it out. I also believe if it was a white only participation meeting we would be having the same discussion here as to why only whites are involved. I do agree if the issue is sexual harrasment, I would understand female only participation, but in reality, how many victims would even open up to having been harassed in an open forum, so I am not sure that would be the correct format. And we know school officials may not be the best people to conduct a sexual harassment discussion. Are they 100% qualified? It might be, just not sure.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2015 16:23:16 GMT -5
How do you know they won't? Where I live, high school students, both boys and girls, black and white, fight, even on school grounds. Hell-even the junior high school students fight. Let's say the issue isn't 'Why Black Lives Matter' Let's say the issue is the real and perceived sexual harassment of the female students. The administration has no concrete evidence it is happening but he administration have heard there are rumblings among the female students. Would you not want to first hear from the female students as to what is going on and not have them have to worry expressing themselves in the auditorium in front of the male students, some of who may be guilty of harassment. I would imagine it can be quite intimidating for some of the female students to speak up, especially if they are unsure if what is happening to them is really sexual harassment. Once you know what the issues are, the administration can address all the students at the same time without having to identify the females who spoke up. Just my opinion and take. 'Why Black Lives Matter' and sexual harassment at school are both serious issues. Every public demonstration showing the expression "Black lives matter" are heavily backed by participation of young and old white people. In fact some demonstrations show close to a 50% or even more participation by white people. No, I cannot back that stat up, but the camera does not distort the presentation, unlike some other pictures presented. I think our youngsters can figure it out. I also believe if it was a white only participation meeting we would be having the same discussion here as to why only whites are involved. I do agree if the issue is sexual harrasment, I would understand female only participation, but in reality, how many victims would even open up to having been harassed in an open forum, so I am not sure that would be the correct format. And we know school officials may not be the best people to conduct a sexual harassment discussion. Are they 100% qualified? It might be, just not sure. Of course the demonstrations you see have white, black, hispanic, Asian folks seeking justice for black youths. They would not be there if they didn't. But you are clearly not seeing the entire town, city, or state populations expressing support for black youth. Hell-you even have posters here who blame the young, black male victim for getting himself shot and killed. They accuse them of being thugs (Trayvon Martin) and good riddance to them. Or they state they can no longer commit crimes (Michael Brown). Do you really, truly think that same attitude can't be found in schools and the general public? Seriously? Remember-children are not born racist. They learn that from their parents and peers.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2015 16:25:41 GMT -5
How do you know they won't? Where I live, high school students, both boys and girls, black and white, fight, even on school grounds. Hell-even the junior high school students fight. Let's say the issue isn't 'Why Black Lives Matter' Let's say the issue is the real and perceived sexual harassment of the female students. The administration has no concrete evidence it is happening but he administration have heard there are rumblings among the female students. Would you not want to first hear from the female students as to what is going on and not have them have to worry expressing themselves in the auditorium in front of the male students, some of who may be guilty of harassment. I would imagine it can be quite intimidating for some of the female students to speak up, especially if they are unsure if what is happening to them is really sexual harassment. Once you know what the issues are, the administration can address all the students at the same time without having to identify the females who spoke up. Just my opinion and take. 'Why Black Lives Matter' and sexual harassment at school are both serious issues. Every public demonstration showing the expression "Black lives matter" are heavily backed by participation of young and old white people. In fact some demonstrations show close to a 50% or even more participation by white people. No, I cannot back that stat up, but the camera does not distort the presentation, unlike some other pictures presented. I think our youngsters can figure it out. I also believe if it was a white only participation meeting we would be having the same discussion here as to why only whites are involved. I do agree if the issue is sexual harrasment, I would understand female only participation, but in reality, how many victims would even open up to having been harassed in an open forum, so I am not sure that would be the correct format. And we know school officials may not be the best people to conduct a sexual harassment discussion. Are they 100% qualified?It might be, just not sure. Who says the discussions must be lead by school officials? They can bring in the experts who know how to handle and ask the right questions. In fact it would be better if the school administration was not involved. The experts can report back to the administration their findings.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Mar 10, 2015 16:29:21 GMT -5
And in many cases, their teachers as well.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 10, 2015 16:31:18 GMT -5
And in many cases, their teachers as well. True that.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Mar 10, 2015 16:35:29 GMT -5
It sounds like to me the principal was projecting his feelings about how hard/easy it is to talk about racial issues. Since he had a hard time talking about his experience with people who did not look like him, he assumes his student body would as well. Maybe so, maybe not.
I'm part of several affinity groups. I'm not necessarily the right gender, sexual orientation, or race for which each of these affinity groups were founded. But, I joined the affinity groups because I support their cause and want to be part of the solution. I think the principal missed an opportunity and likely created more problems with his good intentions.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 10, 2015 16:39:09 GMT -5
It sounds like to me the principal was projecting his feelings about how hard/easy it is to talk about race. Since he had a hard time talking about his experience with people who did not look like him, he assumes his student body would as well. Maybe so, maybe not. I'm part of several affinity groups. I'm not necessarily the right gender, sexual orientation, or race for which each of these affinity groups were founded. But, I joined the affinity groups because I support their cause and want to be part of the solution. I think the principal missed an opportunity.Thank you! This is what I've been trying to verbalize. I think people can be so much more than we give them credit for. I'm not sure separating people to discuss sensitive topics is the solution. Then again I've never experienced a group of out of control teens as some posters seem to have so I may not have the proper experience in this area.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Mar 10, 2015 16:44:13 GMT -5
I thought the main goal would be uniting/bringing together the different cultures and races within the student body - and eventually in society when they venture out into the world.
I don't see having separated affinity groups in HS's would achieve much more than giving non-whites a place to trash-talk Caucasians, or vice-versa.
What does that do other than create more tension & animosity as far as racial issues within our youth?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 10, 2015 16:50:37 GMT -5
Was this held during school hours?
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Mar 10, 2015 17:36:35 GMT -5
The purpose of the affinity groups I belong to aren't to exclude, they are to educate and advocate. I wanted to be an ally for LGBT, so I joined even though I'm heterosexual. Same for other groups. I had similar experiences in the meetings I attended, groups I joined and courses I took in college. It's about inclusion rather than exclusion.
So, maybe my "affinity" experience is different, but I thought it was to link a group together by interest or purpose. If his cause was that every black life matters, I don't think he should have excluded other races.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 10, 2015 18:04:31 GMT -5
I think the focus should have been Every Life Matters.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Mar 10, 2015 18:09:01 GMT -5
The purpose of the affinity groups I belong to aren't to exclude, they are to educate and advocate. I wanted to be an ally for LGBT, so I joined even though I'm heterosexual. Same for other groups. I had similar experiences in the meetings I attended, groups I joined and courses I took in college. It's about inclusion rather than exclusion. So, maybe my "affinity" experience is different, but I thought it was to link a group together by interest or purpose. If his cause was that every black life matters, I don't think he should have excluded other races. And I totally agree with you - which is the point of my post(s).
At least you were allowed to attend the LGBT affinity group as a heterosexual - the white students in this particular school were denied the right to attend the affinity group that was being held for the African-American students.
I don't see that as being productive OR positive - for the bringing together and unity/understanding of different cultures, religions or peoples of different sexual orientation. It seems like a counter-productive approach to exclude one half of the equation - and only creates more distance between the two.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on Mar 10, 2015 18:12:13 GMT -5
What a mess, people who mean well, sometimes can really screw things up.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 10, 2015 18:13:48 GMT -5
What a mess, people who mean well, sometimes can really screw things up. There is some media/social media noise. Wonder what is happening with the kids at the high school?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 12:14:49 GMT -5
So you want both blacks and whites high school students in the same meeting. You are soooooo sure you know how the students will react on such a sensitive subject. These are high school kids raging with hormones. I can just picture all the free-for-all. Speak with the black students first and look for the leaders and those who can intelligently articulate the issue as they are a minority in the school. Then speak with the white students and look for the leaders and those can intelligently articulate the issue as they are the majority race in the school. Do the same for the Hispanic and Asian students too. The school is looking for a productive discussion and not a melee. I prefer to give our youth much more credit. Why would you believe people of mixed backgrounds couldn't meet without getting into a brawl? I completely agree Captain and I do give young people more credit. Have we not learned that segregation is not a good thing? In my opinion it should have just been a meeting of all students.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 14, 2015 7:30:18 GMT -5
He also said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino, and Asian students, to be followed by a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together. (from the link in the OP) Smart would have been to have all those things planned and on the calendar from the start. OH sure, he was planning a "White Group Only" day. Sure he was.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 14, 2015 10:53:58 GMT -5
Boy is this guy in for it when Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson show up to champion whites' right to participate. You go, guys!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Mar 14, 2015 15:57:42 GMT -5
He also said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino, and Asian students, to be followed by a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together. (from the link in the OP) Smart would have been to have all those things planned and on the calendar from the start.
We all know exactly what is going to happen when he (or anyone) proposes a "whites only" group. People are going to lose their damn minds. Latino only? Ok. Asian only? Ok. Black only? Ok. But as soon as somebody says "whites only"...well....I'm just gonna sit back, watch, and say "I told you so".
I don't know how I feel about this. I would feel much more comfortable discussing women's issues with a group of women. I would feel much more comfortable speaking about my faith with a group of religious people. I guess I can understand the concept. That's not to say that those who aren't women or who aren't Christians don't have something valuable to add. It's simply to address comfort. I guess I'd have to ask what it can hurt? Things aren't too hunky-dory the way it is now.
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