djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 12:55:09 GMT -5
www.alternet.org/media/why-conservatives-opt-propaganda-over-reality?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmarkthis is a very liberal perspective, one that i happen to generally agree with, so i am posting without further comment. should make for an interesting discussion. October 22, 2014 | Pew Research set out to find what’s behind what it considers the increasing political polarization of the United States; why the country is moving away from political moderation and becoming more and more divided between liberals and conservatives. Its first report on the phenomenon, which examines where people are hearing news and opinion in both regular and social media, shows that this is happening for very different reasons among people moving to the right than for people moving to the left. Or that’s the charitable way to put it. The less charitable way is to say Pew discovered that conservatives are consuming a right-wing media full of lies and misinformation, whereas liberals are more interested in media that puts facts before ideology. It’s very much not a “both sides do it” situation. Conservatives are becoming more conservative because of propaganda, whereas liberals are becoming more liberal while staying very much checked into reality. ......................................................... Fox News is one of the main factors, possibly the main factor, driving political polarization in this country. Huge chunks of this country listen mostly or solely to a relentless stream of misinformation coming from Fox News, coupled with warnings, implied or even baldly stated, to avoid listening to other, more factually accurate news sources. Unsurprisingly, then, more people are becoming conservatives and people who were already conservative are becoming more hardline about it. If you have any Fox viewers in your family, you probably already suspected this, but now Pew has given us the cold, hard facts to confirm your suspicions.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 23, 2014 13:07:18 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 13:09:27 GMT -5
thanks bills. i meant to post that. and to be clear: i think that there is significant spin over at AlterNet. i just happen to GENERALLY agree with that spin, in this case, and i am hoping that the spin will "inspire" some dialog.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 23, 2014 13:21:46 GMT -5
And this:
Again, while conservatives like to refer to the other side as "low-information voters" there are an awful lot of their own who are "zero-information voters."
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 13:25:45 GMT -5
And this:
Again, while conservatives like to refer to the other side as "low-information voters" there are an awful lot of their own who are "zero-information voters." are you familiar with NPD, tallguy? i can post the DSMIV for it, if not.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 23, 2014 13:37:18 GMT -5
Only vaguely, dj. (I assume with the DSM-IV that you are referring to Narcissistic Personality Disorder?)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 13:45:14 GMT -5
Only vaguely, dj. (I assume with the DSM-IV that you are referring to Narcissistic Personality Disorder?) yes. Translation: Grandiosity is the hallmark of narcissism. So what is grandiose? The simplest everyday way that narcissists show their exaggerated sense of self-importance is by talking about family, work, life in general as if there is nobody else in the picture. Whatever they may be doing, in their own view, they are the star, and they give the impression that they are bearing heroic responsibility for their family or department or company, that they have to take care of everything because their spouses or co-workers are undependable, uncooperative, or otherwise unfit. They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others and complain that they receive no help at all; they may inspire your sympathy or admiration for their stoicism in the face of hardship or unstinting self-sacrifice for the good of (undeserving) others. But this everyday grandiosity is an aspect of narcissism that you may never catch on to unless you visit the narcissist's home or workplace and see for yourself that others are involved and are pulling their share of the load and, more often than not, are also pulling the narcissist's share as well. An example is the older woman who told me with a sigh that she knew she hadn't been a perfect mother but she just never had any help at all -- and she said this despite knowing that I knew that she had worn out and discarded two devoted husbands and had lived in her parents' pocket (and pocketbook) as long as they lived, quickly blowing her substantial inheritance on flaky business schemes. Another example is claiming unusual benefits or spectacular results from ordinary effort and investment, giving the impression that somehow the narcissist's time and money are worth more than other people's. [Here is an article about recognizing and coping with narcissism in the workplace; it is rather heavy on management jargon and psychobabble, but worth reading. "The Impact of Narcissism on Leadership and Sustainability" by Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. "When the narcissistic defense is operating in an interpersonal or group setting, the grandiose part does not show its face in public. In public it presents a front of patience, congeniality, and confident reasonableness."] hopefully you can see how this pertains to the discussion without further comment.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 23, 2014 13:49:22 GMT -5
Just so it's clear, this comment is NOT to start a discussion on abortion, which I understand is banned...and for good reason. It's to illustrate a point that I mention it. I consider myself a conservative because I will not ever...ever...ever vote for anyone who is pro-choice. Period. Not ever. Some conservative candidates are pro-choice and I know that...I will not vote for them either. Mostly, it's a liberal thing.
Point coming, I promise. Is abortion legal? Yes. Is that propaganda? No. It is fact. People are conservative not because of propaganda, but because of beliefs...just like people are liberals because of theirs. It's quite easy to dismiss someone else's beliefs by saying they are sheep and too dumb to sort through fact and fiction, however, it's just not accurate.
It's just more liberal propaganda they are hoping to get dumb people to believe.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 23, 2014 14:01:24 GMT -5
Just so it's clear, this comment is NOT to start a discussion on abortion, which I understand is banned...and for good reason. It's to illustrate a point that I mention it. I consider myself a conservative because I will not ever...ever...ever vote for anyone who is pro-choice. Period. Not ever. Some conservative candidates are pro-choice and I know that...I will not vote for them either. Mostly, it's a liberal thing.
Point coming, I promise. Is abortion legal? Yes. Is that propaganda? No. It is fact. People are conservative not because of propaganda, but because of beliefs...just like people are liberals because of theirs. It's quite easy to dismiss someone else's beliefs by saying they are sheep and too dumb to sort through fact and fiction, however, it's just not accurate.
It's just more liberal propaganda they are hoping to get dumb people to believe.
For the record, that alone does not in any way make you a conservative. It makes you anti-abortion. Those are not the same.
What it also presumably makes you is a single-issue voter. I consider that to be much more of a problem. But either way, there is little to no relevance to the discussion about belief in propaganda over substance, or distrust of media.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:04:28 GMT -5
Just so it's clear, this comment is NOT to start a discussion on abortion, which I understand is banned...and for good reason. It's to illustrate a point that I mention it. I consider myself a conservative because I will not ever...ever...ever vote for anyone who is pro-choice. Period. Not ever. Some conservative candidates are pro-choice and I know that...I will not vote for them either. Mostly, it's a liberal thing.
Point coming, I promise. Is abortion legal? Yes. Is that propaganda? No. It is fact. People are conservative not because of propaganda, but because of beliefs...just like people are liberals because of theirs. It's quite easy to dismiss someone else's beliefs by saying they are sheep and too dumb to sort through fact and fiction, however, it's just not accurate.
It's just more liberal propaganda they are hoping to get dumb people to believe.
For the record, that alone does not in any way make you a conservative. It makes you anti-abortion. Those are not the same.
What it also presumably makes you is a single-issue voter. I consider that to be much more of a problem. But either way, there is little to no relevance to the discussion about belief in propaganda over substance, or distrust of media.
precisely. here is another example. i am extremely anti-war (anti-interventionist, to be more precise), as many of you know. it informs MOST of my political choices, frankly. now, it is true that there are peace and freedom hippies out there that are extremely anti-war as well. they would probably be part of the Mother Jones reading community. but there are also Libertarians that share my view almost exactly. they are going to be part of the Breitbart crowd. in other words, based SOLELY on my anti-war position, you would be GUESSING about my media choices. extra note: there is NO mainstream media that is overtly anti-war, so i can only find my views in publication in ALTERNATIVE/FRINGE media.
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Post by b2r on Nov 23, 2014 14:06:04 GMT -5
It's okay, you can admit it, if you believe 1 or 2 or 10 media sources.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:12:54 GMT -5
It's okay, you can admit it, if you believe 1 or 2 or 10 media sources. you know what is going on there, right? it is not just a coincidence. i am hoping AT LEAST ONE PERSON KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. for the record, you would NEVER find this story repeated verbatim in the published media, it ONLY makes sense in an "evening news" environment (particularly LOCAL news). can you imagine this on NPR? NFW. Slate? not in 1M years. this happens for a reason- someone tell me what it is.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:15:41 GMT -5
thanks for posting that, btw- b2r. it is SUPER RELEVANT to the discussion, which has nothing to do with "believing" news sources (for the record). in fact, i would argue that disbelief is what drives media choices, not belief, both for conservatives AND liberals.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 23, 2014 14:20:22 GMT -5
How much do you want to bet that those are network affiliate stations for the one that broadcasts Conan?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:22:45 GMT -5
How much do you want to bet that those are network affiliate stations for the one that broadcasts Conan? LOL! that might very well be the case. i have to go to a rehearsal in a little over an hour, but i will see if anyone can get it in 70 minutes. if not, i will be home after 8PM EST. here is a clue: this is (probably) NOT NEWS.
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Post by tallguy on Nov 23, 2014 14:23:36 GMT -5
Yeah, but what fun would, "without further comment" be?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 14:23:46 GMT -5
Just so it's clear, this comment is NOT to start a discussion on abortion, which I understand is banned...and for good reason. It's to illustrate a point that I mention it. I consider myself a conservative because I will not ever...ever...ever vote for anyone who is pro-choice. Period. Not ever. Some conservative candidates are pro-choice and I know that...I will not vote for them either. Mostly, it's a liberal thing.
Point coming, I promise. Is abortion legal? Yes. Is that propaganda? No. It is fact. People are conservative not because of propaganda, but because of beliefs...just like people are liberals because of theirs. It's quite easy to dismiss someone else's beliefs by saying they are sheep and too dumb to sort through fact and fiction, however, it's just not accurate.
It's just more liberal propaganda they are hoping to get dumb people to believe.
For the record, that alone does not in any way make you a conservative. It makes you anti-abortion. Those are not the same.
What it also presumably makes you is a single-issue voter. I consider that to be much more of a problem. But either way, there is little to no relevance to the discussion about belief in propaganda over substance, or distrust of media.
Probably only few people are 100% right wing or left wing mostly they are mixed up.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:25:47 GMT -5
Yeah, but what fun would, "without further comment" be? oh, i can have a ball commenting on the comments.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 23, 2014 14:29:48 GMT -5
How much do you want to bet that those are network affiliate stations for the one that broadcasts Conan? LOL! that might very well be the case. i have to go to a rehearsal in a little over an hour, but i will see if anyone can get it in 70 minutes. if not, i will be home after 8PM EST. here is a clue: this is (probably) NOT NEWS.
Oh, I was going for the "How?" The "Why" is because there are "stories" that are bought to influence behavior or belief.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:29:34 GMT -5
For the record, that alone does not in any way make you a conservative. It makes you anti-abortion. Those are not the same.
What it also presumably makes you is a single-issue voter. I consider that to be much more of a problem. But either way, there is little to no relevance to the discussion about belief in propaganda over substance, or distrust of media.
Probably only few people are 100% right wing or left wing mostly they are mixed up. absolutely true. we in the West have a very DICHOTOMOUS view of life. we see things as black and white, good and evil. actually racial identifications are a good example. if you look CAREFULLY at a person that most people would describe as black, they are not black at all. they are varying shades of brown/pink. some are way more pink than brown, some are way more brown than pink. likewise, only albinos are really white. all of the rest of us are pink/tan. contrast this to Japan. children there are described routinely as EVIL. why? because they are self centered, and that is an evil trait. but that doesn't mean EVIL the way we mean it in the West, which is basically psychopathy. it just means that they "have evil in them"- that their BEHAVIOR illustrates what we would call selfishness in adults. nothing more. it is not a heavy assessment, in other words, it is made LAUGHINGLY, i am sure, or at least with a twinkle in the eye.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:35:57 GMT -5
LOL! that might very well be the case. i have to go to a rehearsal in a little over an hour, but i will see if anyone can get it in 70 minutes. if not, i will be home after 8PM EST. here is a clue: this is (probably) NOT NEWS.
Oh, I was going for the "How?" The "Why" is because there are "stories" that are bought to influence behavior or belief.
correct. here is the back story. there was a study done about 10 years ago about MEDIA CONTENT. and the picture it painted was rather alarming. there were two things that were pointed out. the first is that the media tends to REPEAT stories from places like AP. everyone knows that. so, the affiliate in NY is likely to report on Angelina Jolie's three headed love child just as much as the one in SF. but here is the MORE alarming thing: 40% of all media in publication (across the board in commercial media) is PR flack. in other words, you are reading a newspaper. a nice story about how fresh fruit contributes to a healthier diet than pork rinds. what you don't know is that that story was written by the Fruit and Vegetable Consortium. it is not "news" as most people think of news. it is a promotional device. if you feel a little sick after reading that, you should. so, my guess is about this piece is that it is a flack piece from RFA (Retail Federation of America).
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 14:38:24 GMT -5
one more thing: there was a second study done by a GOP lead panel on media consolidation by the Republican House under Bush. the study never got officially published. it was quietly quashed, because what it showed is that local media is basically dying under the pressure from major news outlets- pressure that is driven by economics- and that consolidation was bad for voter information. not exactly a ringing endorsement of less media diversity.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 23, 2014 15:05:03 GMT -5
WHAT??!! ANGELINA JOLIE HAS A THREE-HEADED LOVE CHILD??!! HOW DID I MISS THAT? Damn those Seattle affiliates! (Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I tend to ignore a lot of media.)
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 23, 2014 15:08:36 GMT -5
For the record, that alone does not in any way make you a conservative. It makes you anti-abortion. Those are not the same.
What it also presumably makes you is a single-issue voter. I consider that to be much more of a problem. But either way, there is little to no relevance to the discussion about belief in propaganda over substance, or distrust of media.
Probably only few people are 100% right wing or left wing mostly they are mixed up. The five ideological groups in this analysis (consistent liberals, mostly liberals, mixed, mostly conservatives and consistent conservatives) are based on responses to 10 questions about a range of political values. (From link in reply #1)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 23, 2014 15:15:18 GMT -5
WHAT??!! ANGELINA JOLIE HAS A THREE-HEADED LOVE CHILD??!! HOW DID I MISS THAT? Damn those Seattle affiliates! (Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I tend to ignore a lot of media.) perfect reply from the "low information left".
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 23, 2014 17:28:04 GMT -5
I'm a conservative that's pro choice. Just because it isn't for me, does not mean I intend to mind someone else's business.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 23, 2014 17:54:15 GMT -5
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Nov 23, 2014 18:04:19 GMT -5
I don't really care much for politics but I guess they must be upset they lost control of the media.
I'm other words, they are being brainwashed by the wrong side (in their opinion)
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 23, 2014 18:11:45 GMT -5
... they must be upset they lost control of the media. ... Who are "they"?
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Post by Shooby on Nov 23, 2014 18:13:37 GMT -5
Really? Wow.
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