Why Conservatives Opt for Propaganda Over Reality

[EVT1]

Nov 23, 2014 14:29:48 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Nov 23, 2014 14:22:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

LOL!  that might very well be the case.  i have to go to a rehearsal in a little over an hour, but i will see if anyone can get it in 70 minutes.  if not, i will be home after 8PM EST.  here is a clue: this is (probably) NOT NEWS. 

Oh, I was going for the "How?"  The "Why" is because there are "stories" that are bought to influence behavior or belief. 

The first thing that popped into my head was the movie They Live- where all of the media was subliminal- and when looked at through special glasses was boiled down to simple statements such as obey, consume, etc. 

[Virgil Showlion]

I think a lot of people are reading a lot more into a lot of conjectural analysis on a single survey than is actually there.

Isn't this thread just a complete rehash of the "conservative versus liberal media habits" thread from a few weeks ago, repackaged with a shiny new guaranteed-to-irk-conservatives title?

More importantly: I'm a conservative who happens to agree with US conservatives on many issues. I digest news from a wide variety of news sources, and very little of it comes from the US MSM. Ergo if I'm not being propangandized (as the article defines it) and my conclusions concur with those of US conservatives, why should I care about their viewing habits? Do you hope to inspire me to trust the non-FOX US MSM outlets more?

[rockon]

I also listen to a wide range of the outlets mentioned here and find it quite comical that all of the people who hate FOX and would never admit to listening to them sure claim to know a lot about them. I would be the first to say that FOX is a right leaning news outlet just as MSNBC is a left leaning outlet. I have however never heard the outrageous lying and propaganda that some of the more paranoid left thinking individuals seem to blame FOX for. If anyone is really worried or opposed to blatant deceit and media bias there are some more and probably better examples than FOX.
There is almost no doubt as well that right leaning news outlets are a small minority when compared to left leaning outlets so this has to be one of the silliest and most biased surveys I have ever seen conducted but like most emotion seeking stories this ones seems to be achieving the objective well.
Like I've said many times. "If you hate something, than hate all who do it. Not just those who don't agree with your opinion" Otherwise you just look silly.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 19:46:35 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I think a lot of people are reading a lot more into a lot of conjectural analysis on a single survey than is actually there.

Isn't this thread just a complete rehash of the "conservative versus liberal media habits" thread from a few weeks ago, repackaged with a shiny new guaranteed-to-irk-conservatives title?

More importantly: I'm a conservative who happens to agree with US conservatives on many issues. I digest news from a wide variety of news sources, and very little of it comes from the US MSM. Ergo if I'm not being propangandized (as the article defines it) and my conclusions concur with those of US conservatives, why should I care about their viewing habits? Do you hope to inspire me to trust the non-FOX US MSM outlets more?

i am not that interested in personal anecdotes.  they prove nothing.  you are pretty atypical in a LOT of ways, Virgil.  but thanks for your post.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 20:32:48 GMT -5 rockon said:

I also listen to a wide range of the outlets mentioned here and find it quite comical that all of the people who hate FOX and would never admit to listening to them sure claim to know a lot about them.

i don't hate FOX.  but their viewers are the most misinformed of all news consumers. 

I would be the first to say that FOX is a right leaning news outlet just as MSNBC is a left leaning outlet.

agreed.  however, MSNBC viewers have a much wider palate of viewership, and are better informed. 

I have however never heard the outrageous lying and propaganda that some of the more paranoid left thinking individuals seem to blame FOX for.

do you mind me asking who you are talking about?  i am genuinely curious.

If anyone is really worried or opposed to blatant deceit and media bias there are some more and probably better examples than FOX.

no, not really.  FOX is pretty much the best example i could think of, unless you want to move to the fringe left and right wing media outlets, which are of such little importance that i really don't consider them meaningful or inflential.  Drudge might be an exception, because as Paul points out, Drudge is to right wing blogs what AP is to the mainstream press.

There is almost no doubt as well that right leaning news outlets are a small minority when compared to left leaning outlets so this has to be one of the silliest and most biased surveys I have ever seen

why do you say that?  what specific aspects of the findings do you disagree with?

conducted but like most emotion seeking stories this ones seems to be achieving the objective well.
Like I've said many times. "If you hate something, than hate all who do it. Not just those who don't agree with your opinion" Otherwise you just look silly.

i don't think Pew has an axe to grind.  they are in the business of surveying opinion.  they did so here.  if you disagree, please tell me what specific aspects of this survey you find "biased" and "silly".

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 17:54:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

FWIW, stance on abortion is not included in the study in the OP The Ideological Consistency Scale

good survey, right?  i am going to download and print it, so that i can go through every detail of it.  i really like Pew.  they are definitely a top 5 polling firm.  very professional, and quite centrist.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 18:04:19 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I don't really care much for politics but I guess they must be upset they lost control of the media.

I'm other words, they are being brainwashed by the wrong side (in their opinion)

i don't think there is a "they".  there is only the media.  it has internal inconsistencies.  but there is also broad consensus, which is largely apolitical.

edit: i should have said "mainstream media" or "commercial media".  the alternative press, subscriber media, and public media are a different thing altogether.

[rockon]

It is a known fact that most people listen to and think the truth is what they happen to already believe to be true. So if 28 of 36 outlets are left leaning than it would be no surprise to me that the left leaning respondents would listen to and have trust in a "much broader" number of outlets and the right leaning respondents would have trust in a much smaller number of outlets. You really wouldn't need a survey to know that nor would I make the conclusions they did from it.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5 rockon said:

It is a known fact that most people listen to and think the truth is what they happen to already believe to be true. So if 28 of 36 outlets are left leaning than it would be no surprise to me that the left leaning respondents would listen to and have trust in a "much broader" number of outlets and the right leaning respondents would have trust in a much smaller number of outlets. You really wouldn't need a survey to know that nor would I make the conclusions they did from it.

there are indeed left leaning media, even on that list.  but not all 28.  not by a long stretch.

what the survey shows is that conservatives don't choose media that is even fairly centrist by all accounts.  they have very narrow viewing and reading habits.  it is kinda unhealthy, really, because if lies or misinformation come through those channels, they remain unchallenged.

i think the most interesting thing about the survey is what it says to me about US politics, and our future as a country.  it is not good.

[billisonboard]

Nov 23, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5 rockon said:

... So if 28 of 36 outlets are left leaning ...

Would you say of the 36 outlets, 28 are left leaning?

[rockon]

I would have to look up the latest studies but most of the ones I have seen in the past show a large majority are left leaning. my answer would be it depends on which 36 you picked. I'm quite sure I could put 36 together that had 28 left leaning.

[rockon]

Nov 23, 2014 21:16:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5 rockon said:

It is a known fact that most people listen to and think the truth is what they happen to already believe to be true. So if 28 of 36 outlets are left leaning than it would be no surprise to me that the left leaning respondents would listen to and have trust in a "much broader" number of outlets and the right leaning respondents would have trust in a much smaller number of outlets. You really wouldn't need a survey to know that nor would I make the conclusions they did from it.

there are indeed left leaning media, even on that list.  but not all 28.  not by a long stretch.

what the survey shows is that conservatives don't choose media that is even fairly centrist by all accounts.  they have very narrow viewing and reading habits.  it is kinda unhealthy, really, because if lies or misinformation come through those channels, they remain unchallenged.

i think the most interesting thing about the survey is what it says to me about US politics, and our future as a country.  it is not good.

Where did you find the list? I din't see the actual survey just a link where a far left liberal gal wrote an article about a survey.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:17:09 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5 rockon said:

... So if 28 of 36 outlets are left leaning ...

Would you say of the 36 outlets, 28 are left leaning?

because he is operating under the misperception that there is consistent verifiable liberal mainstream media bias- a theory that has been debunked for over a decade.  the problem is, of course, that nobody on the right acknowledges that fact, so they continue repeating the lie as if it were true.  this is actually a case study in what the Pew people are getting at.  but because of the myopia present on the right, i have concluded that the only way forward is simply to convince people that are in the middle rather than on the ends of the political spectrum of what is real and what is not.  the right wing media is thoroughly narcissistic and beyond reach, imo.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:23:46 GMT -5 rockon said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:16:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

there are indeed left leaning media, even on that list.  but not all 28.  not by a long stretch.

what the survey shows is that conservatives don't choose media that is even fairly centrist by all accounts.  they have very narrow viewing and reading habits.  it is kinda unhealthy, really, because if lies or misinformation come through those channels, they remain unchallenged.

i think the most interesting thing about the survey is what it says to me about US politics, and our future as a country.  it is not good.

Where did you find the list? I din't see the actual survey just a link where a far left liberal gal wrote an article about a survey.

it's in post 2.

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2014 21:20:59 GMT -5 rockon said:

I would have to look up the latest studies but most of the ones I have seen in the past show a large majority are left leaning.

Nov 23, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5 rockon said:

It is a known fact that most people listen to and think the truth is what they happen to already believe to be true.

[billisonboard]

Nov 23, 2014 21:23:46 GMT -5 rockon said:

... Where did you find the list? I din't see the actual survey just a link where a far left liberal gal wrote an article about a survey.

Reply #1

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:20:59 GMT -5 rockon said:

I would have to look up the latest studies but most of the ones I have seen in the past show a large majority are left leaning. my answer would be it depends on which 36 you picked. I'm quite sure I could put 36 together that had 28 left leaning.

if you are using the study out of USC, it was quite flawed methodologically.  for example, the USC study determined that the ACLU was right wing. 

if you are talking about another study, i am sure i have read it too.  i am interested in the media, so i have read them all.    The Media Elite is also quite flawed, in that it only accounted for party registration, not political views.  so, from the fact that most journalists are Democrat, we get "liberal bias".  this is the equivalent of saying that drinking water causes traffic accidents because most people that get into traffic accidents have drunk water in the previous 2 hours.  i can't remember what kind of logical fallacy that is, but it is the kind that conservatives routinely employ to "demonstrate" press bias.

edit: that logical fallacy has to do with CAUSATION.  most liberals are Democrats, but i am not sure it is true that most Democrats are liberal.  furthermore, you would have to show that most journalists actually have liberal views in order to even form the BASIS for the claim that is generally made.  but in a brilliant study done in the late 90's, what was shown is that in terms of POSITIONS, journalists are actually slightly RIGHT of center.  it is easier to say that they are moderate and centrist- which is a fact- and a lot easier for conservatives to swallow.  but here is another thing that i like to point out: that most journalists don't have the opportunity to express opinion in their jobs, and it is actually a taboo to do so, if you are an honest journalist (which i believe most are).  opinion is an entirely different matter, but it is mostly conservative (by a 3:2 margin).  so, what we have is a wrong association coupled with a second wrong assumption, with predictable results: that no consistent evidence of the type of bias suggested in the book The Media Elite can actually be shown.  instead what you find is a bias toward sensationalism, a bias toward sloppy work (economic), a bias toward reprinting scoops rather than making them (again for cost reasons) and a bias toward the establishment.  this was never more apparent than in the runup to the Iraq War, when the media just basically fell in line and goosestepped behind Bush at possibly their most crucial moment since Nixon.  they literally carried the water for him.  a good example was the warrantless spying story, which, had it broke when it was KNOWN, would probably have cost Bush the second election.  instead, Bush personally intervened and the "liberal" NYT sat on the story for an entire year, and let Bush run the table.  one has to wonder with all of the presumed bias that the Times has, why they would ever cooperate in such an endeavor, and indeed it makes no sense whatsoever until you understand that these institutions no longer serve the public interests in the sense that most of us understand that phrase.

[billisonboard]

Nov 23, 2014 21:27:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:25:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So you haven't looked at the 36 used in this study?

no, he has not read the survey at all, despite my repeated requests to do so.

one more time: the article on the survey is unabashedly liberal and will irritate a lot of conservatives.  however, the survey is both mainstream and through.  i suggest to EVERYONE who is interested in this subject that they read the survey before they comment any further. 

Why are you suggesting that now? You are getting exactly what you indicated in reply #2 you wanted.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:31:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:27:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

no, he has not read the survey at all, despite my repeated requests to do so.

one more time: the article on the survey is unabashedly liberal and will irritate a lot of conservatives.  however, the survey is both mainstream and through.  i suggest to EVERYONE who is interested in this subject that they read the survey before they comment any further. 

Why are you suggesting that now? You are getting exactly what you indicated in reply #2 you wanted.

you're right, bills.  i deleted that post. 

[rockon]

Nov 23, 2014 21:27:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:23:46 GMT -5 rockon said:

... Where did you find the list? I din't see the actual survey just a link where a far left liberal gal wrote an article about a survey.

Reply #1

Thanks, I kept going and re reading post 1 and couldn't figure out where some of this was coming from based on the oped

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:46:04 GMT -5 rockon said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:27:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Reply #1

Thanks, I kept going and re reading post 1 and couldn't figure out where some of this was coming from based on the oped

sorry about that, rockon.  i really should have put it in the OP.

[billisonboard]

Nov 23, 2014 21:44:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:31:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Why are you suggesting that now? You are getting exactly what you indicated in reply #2 you wanted.

you're right, bills.  i deleted that post. 

Why delete that one? It just explained why you selected the OP article. Getting rid of it changes nothing. The OP will still give you your original desired result.

[rockon]

www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=207

I watch a large range of information and have almost no doubt that the large majority of today's media is left leaning. FOX gets so much attention and draws so much criticism largely because it is really the one of the only large right leaning news outlet we have. I have never found them to be less truthful than say MSNBC but I take both in context and do my own research.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:52:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 23, 2014 21:44:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you're right, bills.  i deleted that post. 

Why delete that one? It just explained why you selected the OP article. Getting rid of it changes nothing. The OP will still give you your original desired result.

you quoted it.  it is still there.  but i think you are right.  inspiring discussion is more important on a board where opinion and belief is frozen in time. 

[djAdvocate]

Nov 23, 2014 21:55:21 GMT -5 rockon said:

www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=207

I watch a large range of information and have almost no doubt that the large majority of today's media is left leaning. FOX gets so much attention and draws so much criticism largely because it is really the one of the only large right leaning news outlet we have. I have never found them to be less truthful than say MSNBC but I take both in context and do my own research.

and i have no doubt whatsoever that the MSM is not left leaning at all, as the term is generally understood.  however, i find it quite interesting that you and Noam Chomsky agree on this subject:



see 1:47

[rockon]

LOL, I have never found a person that I do not have some areas of agreement.

[happyhoix]

Nov 23, 2014 21:55:21 GMT -5 rockon said:

www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=207

I watch a large range of information and have almost no doubt that the large majority of today's media is left leaning. FOX gets so much attention and draws so much criticism largely because it is really the one of the only large right leaning news outlet we have. I have never found them to be less truthful than say MSNBC but I take both in context and do my own research.

This is what the study was talking about when they said that conservative news programs like FOX tend to warn their viewers that their news reporting is the only 'true' news reporting and all other sources of news should not be distrusted.

I'm not talking about you, personally, Rockon - I believe you when you say that you read and watch other news sources, too - but I have two family members (SIL and MIL) who refuse to watch any other news source, even the local news channels, because they have become convinced that only FOX is trustworthy and all other news sources are lying.  Their only other sources of 'news' are those completely fake reports that float through the internet via social media (Obama is a muslim terrorist!) - they believe them completely (it's on the internet so it must be right!) and forward them to my DH, even though he repeatedly asks them not to.

There is a whole segment of society that behaves like my MIL and SIL - religiously avoiding watching or reading any other news sources to avoid contaminating themselves with 'liberal' reporting. But by doing so they miss one of the most important things in a democracy - political debate, and the crucial ability all voters need to have - to go back to the source of a story and evaluate the facts, which means you need to check a range of sources on the story, from different political angles, weighing each based on the source. 

Good voters have to have a healthy skeptism of everything they read and see. 


 

[b2r]

Good voters have to have a healthy skeptism of everything they read and see.

                                                                                                               ... and then vote Democrat!

[happyhoix]

Nov 24, 2014 8:46:37 GMT -5 b2r said:

Good voters have to have a healthy skeptism of everything they read and see.

                                                                                                               ... and then vote Democrat!

I should hope not.

You vote for a candidate, not a party. The candidate who most closely matches your own political beliefs.

To find out which one that is, you have to do some research, and it should be from multiple outlets.

Too many voters are lazy and vote for a party because their spouse votes for them, or their parents voted for them. They would vote for a donkey if the dems decided to run one. Or for an elephant should Fox News suggest they vote for it. Or they're a single issue voter, and vote for the guy who says he'll outlaw gay marriage, regardless of what the rest of his platform says.

Or they're the ultimate in lazy because they don't bother to vote at all.

Sometimes I think it might be good to require some kind of test before you're allowed to vote, just something to prove you've been paying at least a little bit of attention and won't be lazy voting.

[mmhmm]

Like I've said many times. "If you hate something, than hate all who do it. Not just those who don't agree with your opinion" Otherwise you just look silly.

I'm a little confused by this, rockon.  It might be I'm misunderstanding what you mean by it, but just because may loathe a thing/action why would I transfer that loathing to a person who didn't dislike that thing/action? The way I read it, it's pretty much the polar opposite of what I do/think. Or, are you just using this in reference to the choice of political parties?