Do-It-At-Home Gun Making Machine Sells Out Overnight

[Virgil Showlion]

Just for EVT1.

All Supply of the $1,200 Machine for Making Guns Has Sold Out in 36 Hours

Americans want guns without serial numbers. And apparently, they want to make them at home.

On Wednesday, Cody Wilson’s libertarian non-profit Defense Distributed revealed the Ghost Gunner, a $1,200 computer-controlled (CNC) milling machine designed to let anyone make the aluminum body of an AR-15 rifle at home, with no expertise, no regulation, and no serial numbers. Since then, he’s sold more than 200 of the foot-cubed CNC mills—175 in the first 24 hours. That’s well beyond his expectations; Wilson had planned to sell only 110 of the machines total before cutting off orders.

While the Ghost Gunner is a general-purpose CNC mill, capable of automatically carving polymer, wood, and metal in three dimensions, Defense Distributed has marketed its machine specifically as a tool for milling the so-called lower receiver of an AR-15, which is the regulated body of that semi-automatic rifle. The gun community has already made that task far easier by selling so-called “80-percent lowers,” blocks of aluminum that need only a few holes and cavities milled out to become working lower receivers. Wilson says he’s now in talks with San Diego-based Ares Armor, one of the top sellers of those 80-percent lowers, to enter into some sort of sales partnership.

...

According to the article, this guy is small potatoes compared to the big guys in the industry, and tiny potatoes compared to what's coming.

[Shooby]

Woo hoo!

[Virgil Showlion]

I have to admit, Shooby, as pro-liberty as I am, people machining their own untraceable assault rifles at home definitely isn't something I'd "woo hoo" about. Just one of those machines could spit out dozens of black market weapons, and the US isn't such a ridiculous police state (yet) that people who have any business at all owning a gun can't buy one normally.

[EVT1]

No kidding- what's there to celebrate?  Just what gangsters and criminals need- a way to make their own guns.  

It makes no sense to buy one if you are going to make legal weapons with it- as you can only make them for yourself.  Much easier and cheaper to to just go buy a nice new AR from the sporting goods store that you can be sure will operate.

But it does make sense for criminals:

www.pressherald.com/2014/05/15/homemade_guns_exploit_gun_law_loophole_/

     SAN FRANCISCO — It was John Zawahri’s failure to pass a background check that prevented him from buying a firearm in California several years ago.

     So the 23-year-old obtained an “unfinished receiver,” the metal piece that holds the critical mechanisms that allow guns to fire, and built an assault rifle himself. Last summer, he went on a rampage at a college in Southern California, firing about 100 rounds and killing five people before police fatally shot him.

     Law enforcement officials say their inability to trace the firearms is becoming a major problem. Firearms built with unfinished receivers are increasingly being found at crime scenes and being purchased from suspected gang members by undercover ATF agents.

     In February, undercover agents in California bought seven AR-15-style firearms from two brothers who allegedly offered to finish receivers and assemble them into guns. The brothers, Luis Cortez-Garcia and Emiliano Cortez-Garcia, have been charged with operating illegal shops in Sacramento and Fresno and making and selling pistols and rifles. The brothers did not have a license to sell firearms, didn’t conduct background checks and didn’t require customers to fill out paperwork required by federal regulations, according to court documents.

Woo fucking hoo!

[Phoenix84]

I read an article on this a while back. I thought there was an issue that these machines couldn't manufacture a working firearm because you needed a firing pin or something.  I don't know the technical details though. But maybe they fixed that issue?

Regardless, I wonder if the manufacturer of the AR-15 will allow this to happen, or if they'll file copyright lawsuits.

[dondub]

shooby,

Congrats on the woo hoo. This will be so neat that true patriot criminals and gang members can now exercise their 2nd Amendment rights so easily. Liberty is on the march!

[ArchietheDragon]

You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.   You can't close Pandora's box once it is open. 

whatever saying you want to use the bottom line is that it is very hard to stop technology from progressing.    This is going to happen and if not this company, another, if not now in a few years.   

[Phoenix84]

Haven't t here always been independent gunsmiths able to manufacture their own firearms?

[Shooby]

If you think all the guns in the USA are "registered" somewhere, you are seriously delusional.

[Shooby]

If it CAN be done, it WILL be done. Period.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Oct 7, 2014 15:37:16 GMT -5 Shooby said:

If you think all the guns in the USA are "registered" somewhere, you are seriously delusional.

No, they're not all registered to the owners, but guns manufactured by legitimate gun smiths have serial numbers.

I also wouldn't want to see some dumb-ass trying to make his/her own gun and having the thing being made improperly - which could mean an even bigger disaster in the making.

And then that one dumb-ass sells a bunch of his weapons to a crazy dumb-ass who'd then be an armed and crazy dumb-ass.

[EVT1]

Oct 7, 2014 15:00:34 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I read an article on this a while back. I thought there was an issue that these machines couldn't manufacture a working firearm because you needed a firing pin or something.  I don't know the technical details though. But maybe they fixed that issue?

Regardless, I wonder if the manufacturer of the AR-15 will allow this to happen, or if they'll file copyright lawsuits.

I thought about that, but probably too old- the patents have run out. 

I am just waiting for the day when the NRA takes a stand against these- won't be long if it catches traction and puts a hurt on the gun manufacturers.

[Phoenix84]

I have to agree with Virgil and EVT on this.

I can't see any reason why someone who wanted a AR 15 for legitimate purposes couldn't just go to a sporting goods store and purchase one. As Virgil said, we aren't a police state to the point where we're restricting gun ownership to law biding citizens (yet). And if I were to purchase a firearm, I'd want to make sure it would work properly.

[jkapp]

IMO this is just like a new iphone - people want it just to see how well it works. In this instance, also, probably to see if they can actually make a functioning gun. Will it ever become some monolithic problem of unregulated guns all over made from this machine? No...unless the government actually does crack down hard on gun ownership.

And as far as I can tell, the machine can't make the bullets that go into the gun, so stop the irrational panic

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 7, 2014 17:51:48 GMT -5 jkapp said:

IMO this is just like a new iphone - people want it just to see how well it works. In this instance, also, probably to see if they can actually make a functioning gun. Will it ever become some monolithic problem of unregulated guns all over made from this machine? No...unless the government actually does crack down hard on gun ownership.

And as far as I can tell, the machine can't make the bullets that go into the gun, so stop the irrational panic

How do ammo-buying laws work in the US?

Even if you're on a no-gun list somewhere, aren't you still allowed to buy ammunition?

[EVT1]

Oct 7, 2014 17:14:18 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I have to agree with Virgil and EVT on this.

I can't see any reason why someone who wanted a AR 15 for legitimate purposes couldn't just go to a sporting goods store and purchase one. As Virgil said, we aren't a police state to the point where we're restricting gun ownership to law biding citizens (yet). And if I were to purchase a firearm, I'd want to make sure it would work properly.

We had a democratic congress, a democratic president, and gun rights have only expanded- Obama signing off on some of them.

I'd say the NRA's paranoid pleas for donations else the government confiscates our guns is just about worn out.

All I see with this equipment is an irresponsible gift to criminals. 

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel maybe- might not be able to sue 'gun manufacturers' but you can sure as shit sue the people that deal in this.  I'd start with whomever sold that AR15 partial weapon to the school shooter and take their home and business. 

[EVT1]

Oct 7, 2014 18:26:16 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Oct 7, 2014 17:51:48 GMT -5 jkapp said:

IMO this is just like a new iphone - people want it just to see how well it works. In this instance, also, probably to see if they can actually make a functioning gun. Will it ever become some monolithic problem of unregulated guns all over made from this machine? No...unless the government actually does crack down hard on gun ownership.

And as far as I can tell, the machine can't make the bullets that go into the gun, so stop the irrational panic

How do ammo-buying laws work in the US?

Even if you're on a no-gun list somewhere, aren't you still allowed to buy ammunition?

There is no 'no-gun' list anywhere.

All you need to buy ammunition is cash- at least in my state. I think some places card you to make sure you are old enough- that's about it.  May not be the case in other states. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 7, 2014 19:30:05 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Oct 7, 2014 17:14:18 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I have to agree with Virgil and EVT on this.

I can't see any reason why someone who wanted a AR 15 for legitimate purposes couldn't just go to a sporting goods store and purchase one. As Virgil said, we aren't a police state to the point where we're restricting gun ownership to law biding citizens (yet). And if I were to purchase a firearm, I'd want to make sure it would work properly.

We had a democratic congress, a democratic president, and gun rights have only expanded- Obama signing off on some of them.

I'd say the NRA's paranoid pleas for donations else the government confiscates our guns is just about worn out.

All I see with this equipment is an irresponsible gift to criminals. 

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel maybe- might not be able to sue 'gun manufacturers' but you can sure as shit sue the people that deal in this.  I'd start with whomever sold that AR15 partial weapon to the school shooter and take their home and business. 

They'd fight you, and you'd lose.

In the fantastically unlikely case that you won, you'd need an army of other Americans to do the same thing in order to make a dent in the industry. And in the even more fantastically unlikely case that you made a dent in the industry, they'd just switch to selling generic milling machines like the entrepreneur in the OP. No court halfway in its right mind would uphold a lawsuit against a business because it sold a generic milling machine.

I'm afraid you're not going to sue this particular problem away.

[EVT1]

I don't think I would lose if I was handling it. I could make a solid argument to a jury that the devices sold by XXXXXXX made it possible for a person unable to buy legal guns to obtain one and use it.

There is a legal doctrine called negligence per se- which means that when someone gets injured in relation to a law that it is set up to prevent such a thing- then they are responsible. The law states that certain disturbed individuals or criminals shall not have access to firearms- so the act of making 'firearms' available to people that otherwise are barred by law possessing them is just that.

[OldCoyote]

I want one.

[OldCoyote]

you are wondering about ammo.   Just down the street from me.


www.dillonprecision.com/

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 7, 2014 21:45:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I don't think I would lose if I was handling it. I could make a solid argument to a jury that the devices sold by XXXXXXX made it possible for a person unable to buy legal guns to obtain one and use it.

There is a legal doctrine called negligence per se- which means that when someone gets injured in relation to a law that it is set up to prevent such a thing- then they are responsible. The law states that certain disturbed individuals or criminals shall not have access to firearms- so the act of making 'firearms' available to people that otherwise are barred by law possessing them is just that.

I don't doubt there's some legal basis for a lawsuit. I'm still doubtful you'd win. DIY Firearms makers have deep pockets and crafty legal strategies too.

As it stands, this is all a pipe dream anyway. You'd have to be a near relation of a mass shooting victim, the odds of which are still (thankfully) negligible. But perhaps one day some other EVT out there will lose a child and go hell bent for leather after the manufacturer of the machine that created the key part to the weapon that fired the killing bullet.

[damnotagain]

There were millions of guns manufactured before 1968 when the gun control act was initiated. They have no serial numbers on them.

Gun laws are already on the books with dealing with the production and sale of weapons to criminals . There is a reason they are called criminals

ammo is as easy to get as asking for it at any Walmart . Pay cash just one limit now,  3 boxes at a time , caliber of your choice .

[djAdvocate]

making your own gun when there are 300M of them out there seems like a perfect storm of stupidity to me.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 8, 2014 14:31:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

making your own gun when there are 300M of them out there seems like a perfect storm of stupidity to me.

It's fun and subversive. No stupider than assembling model rockets or brewing one's own spirits.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands, or is it all just folly because you could undoubtedly find better quality in a store somewhere?

[djAdvocate]

Oct 9, 2014 9:07:56 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Oct 8, 2014 14:31:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

making your own gun when there are 300M of them out there seems like a perfect storm of stupidity to me.

It's fun and subversive. No stupider than assembling model rockets or brewing one's own spirits.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands, or is it all just folly because you could undoubtedly find better quality in a store somewhere?

i am thinking that it would be very hard to compete for quality OR price with US manufacturers.  the idea of manufacturing something in my garage that could potentially blow up in my face is not the least bit attractive to me, but i suppose that there are people out there with a death wish i don't have.

[EVT1]

Oct 9, 2014 9:07:56 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Oct 8, 2014 14:31:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

making your own gun when there are 300M of them out there seems like a perfect storm of stupidity to me.

It's fun and subversive. No stupider than assembling model rockets or brewing one's own spirits.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands, or is it all just folly because you could undoubtedly find better quality in a store somewhere?

Are you calling brewing your own beer stupid?  I make quite a bit of beer and it costs less- plus the quality is superb.  Not a good comparison at all- ass backwards.

BTW making gun parts that copy a design with a computerized tool is hardly a craft- it is an invitation for criminals to skirt the law.  If they wanted to get off on gun building they would not start with an 80% or in this case a 100% complete part- they would start with a block of metal.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 9, 2014 12:54:03 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Oct 9, 2014 9:07:56 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

It's fun and subversive. No stupider than assembling model rockets or brewing one's own spirits.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands, or is it all just folly because you could undoubtedly find better quality in a store somewhere?

Are you calling brewing your own beer stupid?  I make quite a bit of beer and it costs less- plus the quality is superb.  Not a good comparison at all- ass backwards.

BTW making gun parts that copy a design with a computerized tool is hardly a craft- it is an invitation for criminals to skirt the law.  If they wanted to get off on gun building they would not start with an 80% or in this case a 100% complete part- they would start with a block of metal.

I'm not going to comment on the quality of your homemade hootch.

I agree with you that this is an invitation to skirt the law. I definitely don't agree with you that all--or even the majority--of people who bought the machines are criminals or intended to sell to criminals. Most of them are probably just hobbyists and gun enthusiasts who want the satisfaction of machining their own guns and showing them off to friends.

Especially the survivalist crowd love to demonstrate that they can survive if it came down to it, or they can make their own weapons if FEMA storm troopers shut down the gun dealers, etc.

[djAdvocate]

this reminds me of the Y2K preparedness kit. 

[EVT1]

Yep- it is like comparing a chef with fresh ingredients to a microwave dinner.

As far as quality I can assure Virgil my beer is better than 90% of what is out there.  And if I find some I really like I can just clone it- no shortage of recipes. 

I do agree not everyone buying these things are criminals- but I would not call it anything close to gunsmithing.