Is there a teacher shortage?

[Phoenix84]

I posted on this topic a little while ago.

I'm not sure I can believe it either.  A lot of teachers I knew couldn't find jobs to save their life.  I also hear a lot get burned out and quit teaching after a few years.

Maybe the shortage is local?

[Sum Dum Gai]

Jun 25, 2014 13:09:08 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

It came up at work that there is a teacher shortage. It was said that there is a shortage of STEM teachers now and pretty soon there will be a flood of teachers retiring.

I was surprised. I know a few people who are teachers and can't find work. One of them moved to Vegas for a job, but her dh wasn't able to find work and they eventually came back here.

If you were considering going into teaching, how would you verify that there is a demand? I can look online and find job postings, but I can't tell if there are 800 people applying for every open position. 

There are teacher shortages in certain areas. If it's a desirable place to live there are teachers. It's usually rural and low income areas with shortages, especially in math and science.

[Phoenix84]

Jun 25, 2014 13:21:43 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Jun 25, 2014 13:16:52 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I posted on this topic a little while ago.

I'm not sure I can believe it either.  A lot of teachers I knew couldn't find jobs to save their life.  I also hear a lot get burned out and quit teaching after a few years.

Maybe the shortage is local?

Sorry, I must have missed it!  I'll try and find it.

It was a thread I posted where it talked about "hardest to fill jobs" and teachers were on the list.

Anyway, I think Darkhonor is right.  I think the teacher shortage is dependent on where you are.
 
You're a homeschooler right?  Maybe you should cosider teaching as a career option.

[tskeeter]

Jun 25, 2014 13:09:08 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

It came up at work that there is a teacher shortage. It was said that there is a shortage of STEM teachers now and pretty soon there will be a flood of teachers retiring.

I was surprised. I know a few people who are teachers and can't find work. One of them moved to Vegas for a job, but her dh wasn't able to find work and they eventually came back here.

If you were considering going into teaching, how would you verify that there is a demand? I can look online and find job postings, but I can't tell if there are 800 people applying for every open position. 

Is there a shortage of STEM teachers?  Probably.  I remember Dad talking about how hard it was to hire math and science teachers 50 years ago.  So, not new news.

How do you verify there is demand?  Look at the BLS (federal Bureau of Labor Statistics) web site.  Lots of information on job outlook for various occupations.  As far as I know, it doesn't have data on impending retirements.  But there is a lot other useful information related to education and qualifications requirements, compensation levels, number of people employed in the industry, projected job growth, and the like.

[The Captain]

In my area there is an acute shortage of high needs/special needs, Spanish, ESL/Dual Language, and Math and Science teachers.

In some areas you are at a serious disadvantage for hiring if you don't speak spanish.

[sheilaincali]

One of DH's closest friends is the principal at the local Catholic HS.  We were just talking about this the other day. It depends on the subject. He said he could find a Social Studies or English teacher with the snap of his finger. BUT finding a qualified science or engineering teacher is significantly more difficult. In his experience (here in MN) there are probably 20 Social Studies/English type teachers for every truly qualified STEM type teacher.

DS' engineering teacher is half the reason we fight to open enroll him to the school he is in.  The other high school does not have an engineering program as nice as DS'.  The teacher is a trained engineer with his PE and is seriously amazing.  To my knowledge he is the only one in our city and DS' school basically is letting him build his own department.  He currently offers 6 classes a semester and they are all always full.  He knew DS had a conflict and couldn't take the year long POE this year but had a 2nd semester study hall so he tailored the curriculum to meet DS' time constraints and taught him the entire year's class in a semester of Independent Study. 

**ETA_ POE= Principles of Engineering (sophomore class)

[Chocolate Lover]

Jun 25, 2014 13:16:52 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I posted on this topic a little while ago.

I'm not sure I can believe it either.  A lot of teachers I knew couldn't find jobs to save their life.  I also hear a lot get burned out and quit teaching after a few years.

Maybe the shortage is local?

I know one of those. The kids were fine, it was all the rest of it that she just couldn't take anymore. IIRC, especially the parents. 

[973beachbum]

Jun 25, 2014 13:36:47 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 25, 2014 13:09:08 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

It came up at work that there is a teacher shortage. It was said that there is a shortage of STEM teachers now and pretty soon there will be a flood of teachers retiring.

I was surprised. I know a few people who are teachers and can't find work. One of them moved to Vegas for a job, but her dh wasn't able to find work and they eventually came back here.

If you were considering going into teaching, how would you verify that there is a demand? I can look online and find job postings, but I can't tell if there are 800 people applying for every open position. 

Is there a shortage of STEM teachers?  Probably.  I remember Dad talking about how hard it was to hire math and science teachers 50 years ago.  So, not new news.

How do you verify there is demand?  Look at the BLS (federal Bureau of Labor Statistics) web site.  Lots of information on job outlook for various occupations.  As far as I know, it doesn't have data on impending retirements.  But there is a lot other useful information related to education and qualifications requirements, compensation levels, number of people employed in the industry, projected job growth, and the like.

I know this fits the YM logic but it doesn't fit with what I know.  HS's only need a couple of bio or earth science or chem or physics teachers for the whole school. It isn't like an English teacher which every student needs to take all four years. So huge numbers of graduates with a BS in geology who isn't going on for a higher degree and doesn't want to mud log eventually ends up looking at what it takes to become certified as a teacher.  Anyone here know how many people get degrees every year in bio or chem or geology?  I can't remember the exact number but it was a LOT!

I also live in the rich suburbs.  Starting teachers make 50K a year.  My kids kindergarten teacher made six figures and her pension is 100% of her salary along with free benefits for life.  I know the numbers in the country as a whole are probably different but in our area teachers don't quit unless they have to move or something, and that is pretty rare. So while I know someplace must be hurting for chem teachers it isn't around here!

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2014 13:36:47 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 25, 2014 13:09:08 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

It came up at work that there is a teacher shortage. It was said that there is a shortage of STEM teachers now and pretty soon there will be a flood of teachers retiring.

I was surprised. I know a few people who are teachers and can't find work. One of them moved to Vegas for a job, but her dh wasn't able to find work and they eventually came back here.

If you were considering going into teaching, how would you verify that there is a demand? I can look online and find job postings, but I can't tell if there are 800 people applying for every open position. 

Is there a shortage of STEM teachers?  Probably.  I remember Dad talking about how hard it was to hire math and science teachers 50 years ago.  So, not new news.

A STEM teacher shortage makes sense to me. You have to find someone who has the talent to go into an in demand and well paid field, but doesn't like money and wants to put up with hormonal students all day.  That is a rare individual.  I looked into getting a teaching degree with a concentration on mathematics secondary education and it was a pretty heavy math load, plus education classes. 

[sheilaincali]

A STEM teacher shortage makes sense to me. You have to find someone who has the talent to go into an in demand and well paid field, but doesn't like money and wants to put up with hormonal students all day. That is a rare individual.

This pretty much sums up DS' engineering teacher.  He truly loves teaching.  He coaches girls basketball and founded the Engineering Club and Robotics Competition Team at DS' school.  When the school fought him on it and didn't want to pay him the extra duty fee he went to the union to get this fee waived so that the program would be more affordable for the students.  Another parent and I work closely with him for the fundraising on it because he doesn't want kids to have to opt out of the robotics team because they can't afford to participate. 

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2014 14:02:34 GMT -5 pooks said:

Jun 25, 2014 13:36:47 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Is there a shortage of STEM teachers?  Probably.  I remember Dad talking about how hard it was to hire math and science teachers 50 years ago.  So, not new news.

A STEM teacher shortage makes sense to me. You have to find someone who has the talent to go into an in demand and well paid field, but doesn't like money and wants to put up with hormonal students all day.  That is a rare individual.  I looked into getting a teaching degree with a concentration on mathematics secondary education and it was a pretty heavy math load, plus education classes. 

My first husband went to school for mathematics and computer science.  He was going to be a high school math teacher, but there were no openings at the time he graduated.  He subbed for a year then got a job in IT for a big company in town.  In a few years his salary was nearly double what he would have made teaching.  He's been there 20 years now and while he talks about teaching sometimes, he can't stomach the idea of the pay cut. 

[Ryan]

No teaching shortages around me at all.  Well, no teaching shortages at the places that I would want to teach.  Probably quite a bit in the city schools. 

[happyhoix]

Twenty years ago our area was projecting a big teaching shortage due to a lot of teachers retiring. However when the recession came, we had a lot of Hispanic kids whose parents either relocated or returned back to their country of origin, when the local jobs dried up. Some of the area schools were 80-90 percent Hispanic, so when the student population suddenly dropped, schools were closed and consolidated, and a bunch of teachers were let go.

In addition to that, during good economic times, teachers are more likely to look for jobs outside of teaching, but in poor economic times, there aren't that many job opportunities for them to move to.

Bottom line we now have a serious teacher glut, especially in non STEM teaching jobs. I know several recent teaching graduates who moved to Alaska to get a teaching job.

How to judge your local job market for schools - do you have any teacher friends? They could fill you in.

[giramomma]

I think it depends on the state whether they will take other state's certifications.

Just like, ever state is different about the certification of substitute teachers. My city, you need to be a certified teacher to sub, but para professionals, depending on who you work with, need simply a HS diploma to skills working with special ed kids (but not a formal 4-year degree...just some classes, I think).

Certification can expire, at least around here, in order to keep being certified you have to have x amount of continuing education credits. (ie, like 5 credits in 5 years) No extra courses, then your certification is no longer.

When public sector workers lost the right to collective bargaining, we lost a lot of teachers. So much so, that the district struggled with finding subs for a year.

From what I've heard, string music (!) teachers are finding jobs fairly easy in our county, and not every city's middle school/HS offers band, orchestra, and choir. 

My district posts job openings on the district web site. You make an account, and submit your resume.

Another reason it may be hard for teachers to find jobs, is depending on the school, they may not need teachers. I was a little shocked that there were just as many (if not more) "specialists" than actual classroom teachers. Our neighbhorhood school has positive behavior specials (3 of those), reading specialist, family liaison, a ESL teacher, Speech/language specialists (6) , Occupational Therapist, two physical therapists, a nurse, a nurse assistant, a psychologist, a counselor, a social worker. That's not everything.

[The Captain]

Jun 25, 2014 15:38:25 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

How do you verify there is demand? Look at the BLS (federal Bureau of Labor Statistics) web site. Lots of information on job outlook for various occupations. As far as I know, it doesn't have data on impending retirements. But there is a lot other useful information related to education and qualifications requirements, compensation levels, number of people employed in the industry, projected job growth, and the like.

I'm not sure how to make use of the information. For "Elementary and Middle School Teachers" it says Employment per 1,000 jobs is 14.966. Is it saying for every 1,000 jobs, 14.966 of them are elementary and middle school teachers?

In my area there is an acute shortage of high needs/special needs, Spanish, ESL/Dual Language, and Math and Science teachers.

How is it that you know about this? Does your local paper write articles about it, or is it from other teachers complaining, something else?

When schools say they can't "find" a biology teacher, what does that mean exactly? Does the district put a job posting on Indeed.com for a biology teacher and not one single biology teacher applies? Are people applying that aren't fully qualified? Where do school districts place job openings so that potential applicants can find them?

I just messaged the teacher that I know who went to Vegas to teach and ended up coming back. She said the last place she applied told her that they get over 1500 applicants every time a spot opens up. This person is certified to teach general education up to 6, science to 8.

Speaking of certification, does it carry over from state to state? Does is expire?

Sorry, lots of questions!

I know someone who works in administration for a local school district. My circle of friends also includes an individual who currently teaches HS chemistry and physics. She has been actively recruited by other districts.

Also, in my state the law requires teaching jobs to list salaries and open positions must be posted as well.  As my sis's ex was a former teacher in my state, and made some asinine comments - I had to look up the stats to see if he was on target, which unfortunately he was.

www.familytaxpayers.org/ftf/ftf_salaries.php

k12jobspot.com/Illinois-teaching-jobs

I've posted on many other threads about teacher's salaries in my area, IMHO they are reasonably well compensated.

[Spellbound454]

There are loads of Music and Art teachers where I am in the UK.....50 apply per vacancy

.....but a shortage of Maths, Science, Technology....( we have been looking for a Geography teacher for the best part of a year)

I'm a High School teacher myself. The money isn't bad but the workload is huge.
There is so much micro-scrutiny and constant criticism of everything that you do.... that it just adds to the stress.

Plus you have to teach hormonal teenagers all day long.

It doesn't surprise me that people burn out.


I've got 16 classes...430 kids in total... 23 hours of lessons... plus extras at lunchtime, evenings after School and in holidays. 
Its all got to be written and prepared, marked, assessed, reported on....plus a hundred other things that arrive on my desk...and meetings about meetings.
Its all I ever seem to do

[Deleted]

I'll tackle this one since I am a teacher.

I teach in a district where there are dozens of teachers applying for every opening.    The pay is better, the working conditions are better, and the parental support is better. A lot of the teachers applying, though, are already teaching somewhere else. So there is a domino effect on the poor districts in our area. Some poor districts in our area have gotten their math teachers from the Phillipines, for example, or Teach in America (or whatever it is called).

No Child Left Behind changed some of the dynamics. Science teachers, for example, could teach any science even though they might have majored only in biology. Now to be "Highly Qualified," a biology major can only teach a life science.    There is a general science major, and it is prized by small schools. Also, you used to be able to teach in your minor. Now you must have a major to be "Highly Qualified."

Teaching certificates do expire.  I forget how long mine is good for, but I have to teach X number of years during this period and complete 20 hours of PD per year OR take coursework.  I got my MA to renew my certificate.  My point is that even though a lot of people may have initially been certified, they are no longer qualified to teach.  Whether your teaching certificate is valid in another state depends on the state where you want to teach.  It isn't automatic.

In Alabama, we have a 4X4 curriculum.  That means 4 years of math, science, social studies, and English.  So that puts some pressure on numbers. 

There is a website sponsored by the State of Alabama where every teaching opening is supposedly posted.  It is "Teach in Alabama."  You can register and find out where the openings are in your field.

One way that schools are tackling the "teacher shortage" is through distance learning.  "Highly Qualified" teachers can provide the courses that schools can't afford or find teachers for (think AP Physics) at no cost for the school.  The State Dept. of Education pays for it.  

Maternity leaves are where my district usually sees the teaching shortage.  If there wasn't a shortage, there should be dozens of applicants eager to get their foot in the door through a maternity leave.  There aren't.   

What there is a GLUT of is substitute teachers even though these, too, have to be "certified."  (That consists of fingerprinting and a background check.)  Everyone thinks he or she will just substitute while job looking.  Our substitute list has been closed for three or four years now.

[Shooby]

Nope. No teacher shortage here.

[teen persuasion]

There's no teacher shortage, here, either.  DH has been teaching in a private agency for 12 years, has not been able to find a teaching position in a local district, and is likely leaving teaching.

We have gotten to know a couple that moved to our area from out of state.  She is a science teacher, and could not find a teaching position anywhere here.  After a year, they are relocating again.  Her old position was still waiting for her if she wanted it, but they are going to an entirely different area.  After he got a job offer, she began looking for work in the same area, and had a job in 3 days.

It is all about whether the area is growing or contracting.  NY is losing population, AZ must be growing and building schools.

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2014 16:15:38 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Jun 25, 2014 15:38:25 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

I'm not sure how to make use of the information. For "Elementary and Middle School Teachers" it says Employment per 1,000 jobs is 14.966. Is it saying for every 1,000 jobs, 14.966 of them are elementary and middle school teachers?


How is it that you know about this? Does your local paper write articles about it, or is it from other teachers complaining, something else?

When schools say they can't "find" a biology teacher, what does that mean exactly? Does the district put a job posting on Indeed.com for a biology teacher and not one single biology teacher applies? Are people applying that aren't fully qualified? Where do school districts place job openings so that potential applicants can find them?

I just messaged the teacher that I know who went to Vegas to teach and ended up coming back. She said the last place she applied told her that they get over 1500 applicants every time a spot opens up. This person is certified to teach general education up to 6, science to 8.

Speaking of certification, does it carry over from state to state? Does is expire?

Sorry, lots of questions!

I know someone who works in administration for a local school district. My circle of friends also includes an individual who currently teaches HS chemistry and physics. She has been actively recruited by other districts.

Also, in my state the law requires teaching jobs to list salaries and open positions must be posted as well.  As my sis's ex was a former teacher in my state, and made some asinine comments - I had to look up the stats to see if he was on target, which unfortunately he was.

www.familytaxpayers.org/ftf/ftf_salaries.php

k12jobspot.com/Illinois-teaching-jobs

I've posted on many other threads about teacher's salaries in my area, IMHO they are reasonably well compensated.

Neat website.  I see my aunt earned $59k in 2006, the year she retired.  She spent almost her entire career teaching in a small grade school that averaged 100 students.  I remember her talking about having entire grades with only 8 kids in it.

[tskeeter]

Jun 25, 2014 13:56:17 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Jun 25, 2014 13:36:47 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Is there a shortage of STEM teachers?  Probably.  I remember Dad talking about how hard it was to hire math and science teachers 50 years ago.  So, not new news.

How do you verify there is demand?  Look at the BLS (federal Bureau of Labor Statistics) web site.  Lots of information on job outlook for various occupations.  As far as I know, it doesn't have data on impending retirements.  But there is a lot other useful information related to education and qualifications requirements, compensation levels, number of people employed in the industry, projected job growth, and the like.

I know this fits the YM logic but it doesn't fit with what I know.  HS's only need a couple of bio or earth science or chem or physics teachers for the whole school. It isn't like an English teacher which every student needs to take all four years. So huge numbers of graduates with a BS in geology who isn't going on for a higher degree and doesn't want to mud log eventually ends up looking at what it takes to become certified as a teacher.  Anyone here know how many people get degrees every year in bio or chem or geology?  I can't remember the exact number but it was a LOT!

I also live in the rich suburbs.  Starting teachers make 50K a year.  My kids kindergarten teacher made six figures and her pension is 100% of her salary along with free benefits for life.  I know the numbers in the country as a whole are probably different but in our area teachers don't quit unless they have to move or something, and that is pretty rare. So while I know someplace must be hurting for chem teachers it isn't around here!

beachbum, my comments aren't based on YM logic.  They are based on my observations, growing up in a family of educators.  Mom had bachelors majors in elementary education and library science and an masters in SLBP.  Dad's background was bachelors in secondary education with a major in science, followed by an MA in education and an EdD, a doctorate in education.  And then there are the uncles, cousins, in-laws, and friends who are teachers.  I've spent my entire life on the sidelines of the educational system, watching what happens and how things work.  And, based on the information I have picked up over the last several decades, STEM teachers are usually harder for school districts to hire when they need them than English teachers.

By the way, a good share of us took science and math classes every year while in high school.  So, I believe most high schools require more then the couple of science teachers and couple of math teachers you seem to think they have.  In the places where I went to school, English and social studies staffs were only slightly larger than the science of math staffs.  

 

[Nazgul Girl]

  It depends.   DD is an English teacher with a Communications certification as well.   She's had seven years in the classroom now, with many ups and downs.   She could only get a job in the worst schools for a couple of years, after she moved back to our state when she and her fiance' broke up.  

  However, in the last 3 years, she's almost finished her masters in administration, has kept on persevering, and has run some outside after school and tutoring programs on the side.    Within the last several months, she's getting calls to come interview as a reading specialist, English teacher, Communications, and she just got hired in a private religious school ( not a charter ) for next year.   Last week, she also picked up a teaching summer job for disadvantage kids with reading and math difficulties ( a different inner city than the one she used to teach in ) for good hourly pay for for five weeks this summer.  The district had two of its own teachers say they'd do the program, but then back out.   She's teaching second and third graders with only 15 in the classroom, so how bad can it be ?  

   There is a growing demand for teachers with some genuine, hardcore classroom experience, since so many teachers burn out or retire.  

  We've been surprised, since the market was very slack until this last year.

  

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2014 19:51:50 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

The reason why I'm asking so many questions about a "teacher shortage" is because the CC that I work at wants to add more teaching programs. Enrollment is down and it was suggested at a meeting that there is a demand for more teaching programs due to the current teacher shortage in STEM classes and the flood of retirees about to hit. It was said that the demand is so great that the college is going to offer a program for people who have a degree in something else to quickly become certified teachers. It was a head scratcher for me because I haven't heard of any teaching opportunities around here. I spent some time poking around online today and I can't find any evidence of this urgent need. 

We have these.  They are called "fifth-year" programs, and mean you will start at master's degree salary.  They are very popular with people who didn't wonder what they would actually DO with their degree,

[Miss Tequila]

Definitely no teacher shortage around here. I don't live in a "wow, I wish I lived there" area, either. We do have a fairly lcol and teachers salaries are pretty good (about $65k to $70k a year) considering they work 9 months out of the year. Even special ed teachers never retire around here. I know many people with teaching degrees that can't find jobs.

Either teaching isn't as bad as some make it out to be or having the summers off more than compensates for it.

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2014 20:55:37 GMT -5 @wrongsideof30 said:

Jun 25, 2014 20:34:59 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

We have these.  They are called "fifth-year" programs, and mean you will start at master's degree salary.  They are very popular with people who didn't wonder what they would actually DO with their degree,

Are the additional classes taken at a community college?

I don't think so since I don't think you can get a master's degree from a CC.  The pay bump would be important.

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2014 20:46:05 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Definitely no teacher shortage around here. I don't live in a "wow, I wish I lived there" area, either. We do have a fairly lcol and teachers salaries are pretty good (about $65k to $70k a year) considering they work 9 months out of the year. Even special ed teachers never retire around here. I know many people with teaching degrees that can't find jobs.

Either teaching isn't as bad as some make it out to be or having the summers off more than compensates for it.

Our summers are getting shorter.  I repot back July 31.

The really difficult part of teaching, at least for me, is that you get almost no "down time" to create the next brilliant lesson or to grade papers.  Remember that I teach English, and grading essays is a b*tch.  Math is as bad.  

I love teaching.  The essays kill me. Figure 15 minutes each minimum and multiply by 125 (a light teaching load.).  I REALLY hate the plagiarized ones that force me to spend an extra 30 minutes proving it was plagiarized.  

[imanangel]

We definitely do not have a teacher shortage here. We have teachers that hang on until they are senile or almost dead because DoDEA pays them very well here. We did have a lot that retired this year, but for every teacher that retires, there are at least 50 more in the DoDEA system asking to be transferred in.

 

[truthbound]

Saying there is a shortage of teachers is as hilarious as saying there is a shortage of people wanting to be cops.

[Miss Tequila]

Serious question....if teaching is such a tough profession and it pays so lousy (per all of the posts on here) why are people lining up to be teachers? In my area you have to know someone on the school board to have a shot at becoming a teacher. Many people with teaching degrees wine up in unrelated fields because they can't get in with a school district (except as a sub and that pay sucks).

If it was as awful as some day on here, shouldn't their be a nationwide shortage?

[Deleted]

The OP specifically said shortage in STEM. 

Im not sure CC would be enough to certify non teachers? However, I've been investigating how PA does their 'teacher rating' for want of a better phrase, now, in anticipation of going back. I've observed a few ads for special Ed teachers and others asking for specific concentrations to be considered 'highly qualified'. I've been thinking of upgrading a few classes to get a math concentration. I asked at the University where my son is taking his thing and the lady seemed to know exactly what I was talking about and actually suggested I look at the local community college instead because it would be so much cheaper. 

Im not sure how other states are working it?