milee
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Post by milee on Jan 23, 2014 14:04:49 GMT -5
Also, I think (but don't know, this is only based on hints from friends) that if your family is Mormon and has been active members of your church, including paying tithes, there is a lot of financial help available for college.
Anyone know about this one way or another?
My Mormon friends in Phoenix often hinted delicately that there's a wide financial support net within the church, but it wasn't said in a way that invited further questions and I couldn't think of a non-rude way to ask. But many of them were also from very large families without princely incomes and they all went to college and bought homes upon graduation, etc.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jan 23, 2014 14:05:23 GMT -5
Sounds to me like the dad was kind of a bully. He said, regarding the AP classes, that they "went to the school and demanded" that their kids be admitted. I'm sure he did that with the activities and sports, too: my kids will participate but only from x hour - x hour. After that is study time. He had a good job and made good money (per his admission) so he probably used that as power in his community. And, yep, I could be very wrong, but I'd love to hear the wife and kids tell the story...
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 23, 2014 14:08:12 GMT -5
there was probably little to no extracurriculars. You can't really have Bobby, Suzy, and Mikey doing soccer/softball/whatever if they are essentially raising their younger siblings... I would have hated to be an older child in a huge family - it seems like you basically have no childhood. My great-aunt was the oldest girl of 11 kids. She and my uncle basically raised the younger ones (her dad died when the youngest was just a few months old and the mom had to work to feed the family). Neither she nor her brother ever married or had kids of their own. When I once asked her why she told me she already raised one family and had no desire to do it again.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 23, 2014 14:15:06 GMT -5
Even if it's HS sports, you often aren't home by 5:30. By the time practice went from 3 to 5, I got dressed, and walked home, it would be 5:45. And game or meet day wouldn't get you home until 9:00 some nights.
And as for the snacking thing, if you told the 16 year old me I could not have a snack after school and before sports practice, I would cut you. And you would have know all about felonies before age 18. See it can be done, set about teaching your kids here woman
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jan 23, 2014 14:37:50 GMT -5
As parents you can do everything right and it turns out wrong or everything wrong and it turns out right. So, it's a crap shoot. Although with 12, it's hard to believe they all turned out perfect.
As long as I made good grades and stayed out of trouble, my parents left me alone (not alone really- but didn't give me a list of household rules or chores). I was in all honors and AP classes, sports year-round, at least a dozen clubs, full-time job during the summer starting at 16 and a healthy social life with other "good" kids. They gave us a used tuarus to share at 16 so we could get to our job. I didn't have to do my own laundry, cook for the family, or daily chores. I never fought with my parents because they didn't nag me to do a bunch of stuff I didn't want to do and never got grounded for breaking a bunch of stupid rules. I didn't even have a curfew, but was told to "be reasonable". There was always peaceful harmony in the house and we still have a good relationship as adults. Regardless of this loose parenting, I still learned how to pay all my own bills, cook food and clean house when I left the nest.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 23, 2014 14:42:13 GMT -5
As parents you can do everything right and it turns out wrong or everything wrong and it turns out right. So, it's a crap shoot. Although with 12, it's hard to believe they all turned out perfect. As long as I made good grades and stayed out of trouble, my parents left me alone (not alone really- but didn't give me a list of household rules or chores). I was in all honors and AP classes, sports year-round, at least a dozen clubs, full-time job during the summer starting at 16 and a healthy social life with other "good" kids. They gave us a used tuarus to share at 16 so we could get to our job. I didn't have to do my own laundry, cook for the family, or daily chores. I never fought with my parents because they didn't nag me to do a bunch of stuff I didn't want to do and never got grounded for breaking a bunch of stupid rules. I didn't even have a curfew, but was told to "be reasonable". There was always peaceful harmony in the house and we still have a good relationship as adults. Regardless of this loose parenting, I still learned how to pay all my own bills, cook food and clean house when I left the nest. Yes, but you can't build a computer or restore a car. You suck.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jan 23, 2014 15:01:27 GMT -5
As parents you can do everything right and it turns out wrong or everything wrong and it turns out right. So, it's a crap shoot. Although with 12, it's hard to believe they all turned out perfect. As long as I made good grades and stayed out of trouble, my parents left me alone (not alone really- but didn't give me a list of household rules or chores). I was in all honors and AP classes, sports year-round, at least a dozen clubs, full-time job during the summer starting at 16 and a healthy social life with other "good" kids. They gave us a used tuarus to share at 16 so we could get to our job. I didn't have to do my own laundry, cook for the family, or daily chores. I never fought with my parents because they didn't nag me to do a bunch of stuff I didn't want to do and never got grounded for breaking a bunch of stupid rules. I didn't even have a curfew, but was told to "be reasonable". There was always peaceful harmony in the house and we still have a good relationship as adults. Regardless of this loose parenting, I still learned how to pay all my own bills, cook food and clean house when I left the nest. Yes, but you can't build a computer or restore a car. You suck. I probably could. I'm pretty good at following instructions. But it sounds expensive and I'm cheap. It also sounds like a lot of trouble and not a good use of my time- and I like to be efficient. I can tell right away, it will take too much time away from my do-nothing time. I have a bigger list of priorities that align with my goals in maintaining a stress-free and happy existence should I want to turn my do-nothing time into productive time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 15:04:17 GMT -5
Even if it's HS sports, you often aren't home by 5:30. By the time practice went from 3 to 5, I got dressed, and walked home, it would be 5:45. And game or meet day wouldn't get you home until 9:00 some nights.
And as for the snacking thing, if you told the 16 year old me I could not have a snack after school and before sports practice, I would cut you. I would have ended up in ER. I had low blood sugar and fainted three times from lack of food.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 15:10:55 GMT -5
lol, they probably had 14-15 kids and the 2-3 with health issues/allergies never made it to college.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 15:22:11 GMT -5
I bet this dude was delusional about how great their childhood was. Kinda like when my wife will say "It was easier to make dinners before kids. I used to make dinner every night" and I'm thinking "I think we ate out a lot"
PS. Kids haven't been in the same place since 1998? So they couldn't get a family pic even at one of their 12 kid's weddings? Maybe they weren't all invited because Scrooge McDuck wasn't chipping in?
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cheapskate
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Post by cheapskate on Jan 23, 2014 16:15:57 GMT -5
If we had 12 kids, the kids under 5 would be put on a bathing schedule, much like their laundry schedule. We never bathed our little ones every night. I would like to hear from the mom though. With our three, we had one crap sleeper. I wonder how she dealt with 4 crap sleepers at a time on top of breastfeeding ...Well, the article does not mention whether or not she had a drinking habit. This is the part that got me, when they went backpacking and the Mom was at base camp with the smallest kids. "Remember, for 15 years, she was either pregnant or just had a baby." That poor woman!!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jan 23, 2014 16:21:26 GMT -5
::I can't build my own computer or restore my own vehicle. Why would I require my kids to do it? :: This guy made his kids do things which aligned with his skillset. He was an engineer. I'm in the financial field, it would like me saying by the time my kids were 3 they had their own budget and balanced their own books. Yes I'm making my kids do it, but it's within a space that I can teach them and help them out. He taught the kids to cook by telling them to read a recipe and apply math to double it. His personal skillset kind of happens to align with stuff that sounds more difficult for most of us. I don't expect my kids to know how to try a felony by the time they are 18. During our recent huge trial, my boss had her 5- and 8-year olds doing mock cross-exam and putting stickers on all the exhibits. DD was in utero and contributed nothing... slacker
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jan 23, 2014 16:27:00 GMT -5
Well, the article does not mention whether or not she had a drinking habit. This is the part that got me, when they went backpacking and the Mom was at base camp with the smallest kids. "Remember, for 15 years, she was either pregnant or just had a baby." That poor woman!! Meh. Maybe not. Maybe base camp was where she had her booze stash.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 23, 2014 17:10:28 GMT -5
I'd really love to hear the wife's version. I can't imagine camping pre or post birth is tons of fun. I don't like camping in the 1st place but even those that do must have some conditions they're not willing to deal with.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 23, 2014 17:13:57 GMT -5
I'd really love to hear the wife's version. I can't imagine camping pre or post birth is tons of fun. I don't like camping in the 1st place but even those that do must have some conditions they're not willing to deal with. Not just camping pre or post birth, but camping pre or post birth with no other adult help and a bunch of kids under the age of 6 to look after...
Wonder if they were car camping with some amenities (like water and electric) or if they were going more rustic? Even with water and electric, camping with small kids can be challenging even if you're not pregnant or recovering from giving birth. And I don't even want to think about how many loads of laundry they had when they returned from the trip.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 23, 2014 17:17:41 GMT -5
Even car camping sounds horribly unpleasant to me with lots of kids under 6 and no other adult. I'd be giving large servings of Benadryl for dessert every night.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 23, 2014 17:36:11 GMT -5
I'd really love to hear the wife's version. I can't imagine camping pre or post birth is tons of fun. I don't like camping in the 1st place but even those that do must have some conditions they're not willing to deal with. I don't find the camping story all that hard to believe. I didn't have 12 kids, of course, but when my oldest was a few months old, we took him camping (tent camping). After the younger one was born, we took both of them (starting when the oldest was 3 and the baby 6 months) camping. We all did enjoy it. This was camping in a tent with sleeping bags and cooking on a coleman stove on a picnic table. No running water or electricity (back then I don't think campsites even had those). Of course, back then, babies didn't need all the "stuff" that they seem to need now. A small folding portacrib and a backpack style carrier was pretty much it. Granted the ratio was 2 adults: 2 kids. It would be harder to be 1 adult: several toddlers/infants.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 23, 2014 17:47:31 GMT -5
I really like the part where he says that they had to eat whatever food was provided, and none of their kids have allergies, implying that allergies are created by the parents.
My kids don't have allergies either, and it has nothing to do with my parenting. I don't have food allergies, but I have a strong sensitivity to dairy. I disagree with the premise as had my Mom actually paid attention to the fact I didn't do well on cow's milk as a baby I may have not had lots of sore throats and other issues I had growing up. I don't have them now because I finally put the dairy connection together as an adult a few years into my working life.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jan 23, 2014 18:06:09 GMT -5
My parents took me camping a few times when I was a kid. I don't remember it being very much fun, though I appreciate the experience. I much preferred our beach-front vacations in a condo and I think they did as well given that we did that every year versus camping only 2 or 3 times. To this day, I also don't like family vacations in a hotel room and am really glad we only ever did that once.
Camping wasn't fun until I was in my 20's, could go with a bunch of friends and get really boozed up before passing out in my tent. No thanks to going with a baby and toddler with no booze and no friends...now that I'm a responsible, family focused adult.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jan 23, 2014 18:07:54 GMT -5
The camping may not have been that frequent either. They might have only gone after the youngest one was out of diapers. That would mean the oldest few are teens already and mom wasn't pregnant and dealing with toddlers at the same time. Makes everything more manageable.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jan 23, 2014 18:17:57 GMT -5
I'd really love to hear the wife's version. I can't imagine camping pre or post birth is tons of fun. I don't like camping in the 1st place but even those that do must have some conditions they're not willing to deal with. I don't find the camping story all that hard to believe. I didn't have 12 kids, of course, but when my oldest was a few months old, we took him camping (tent camping). After the younger one was born, we took both of them (starting when the oldest was 3 and the baby 6 months) camping. We all did enjoy it. This was camping in a tent with sleeping bags and cooking on a coleman stove on a picnic table. No running water or electricity (back then I don't think campsites even had those). Of course, back then, babies didn't need all the "stuff" that they seem to need now. A small folding portacrib and a backpack style carrier was pretty much it. Granted the ratio was 2 adults: 2 kids. It would be harder to be 1 adult: several toddlers/infants. We ddn't take that much "stuff" with us when we took the kids camping last fall. Just a safe place for DD to sleep. But we camped with friends, DS and DD's church Grandparents, and they watched the kids while we set up, tore down, etc. The kids didn't need much camping, it was awesome. But we were camping in a 20 year old pop-up camper. That said, I would not want to do it with more than 2 kids. Even going this summer is going to be a challenge with 2 mobile kids and just 2 adults. But they had 12 kids in 15 years! That is more frequent than the Duggars timeline. That means she got pregnant on average 6 months after having the last kid. My DH and I were barely having sex 6 months after each kid.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 23, 2014 18:25:01 GMT -5
Everything else aside - to survive having 12 kids in 15 yrs - I would either end up in a mental institution or be qualified for a sainthood. Being pregnant for over a decade.....holy crap , and I am one of those people who actually enjoyed my pregnancies.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Jan 23, 2014 18:34:42 GMT -5
If we had 12 kids, the kids under 5 would be put on a bathing schedule, much like their laundry schedule. We never bathed our little ones every night. I would like to hear from the mom though. With our three, we had one crap sleeper. I wonder how she dealt with 4 crap sleepers at a time on top of breastfeeding ... I think the older girls breastfed them. LOLOL ! Now it's all starting to make sense.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Jan 23, 2014 18:55:43 GMT -5
Apochryphal recall, I would say. He's really either exaggerating, or was very out of touch with the realities of life in his family. He may view himself as the Ultimate Patriarch. He may be nuts.
I think it's telling that the whole family has not reunited for many, many years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 22:06:43 GMT -5
My mom is one of 11 kids, and I'm her only child. The most kids (I know of) that one of her siblings has is 3. The others have 2, 1, or (mostly) none.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 24, 2014 7:35:35 GMT -5
My mom comes from 5 , 4 lived to adulthood. She had 1, the rest had 2 until the last had an oopsie and made it 3 but years after the last 2 were born so basically an only child. They all remember things being tight although they didn't go hungry like my friend who came from 6 or 7 until they got that male child. Those that I knew that came from very large families, yes the older children raised the younger ones. Only the boys from those families thought it'd be great to have large families themselves so I don't imagine their chore of raising younger siblings was reduced to diaper charming, laundry, feeding, and free babysitting, like their sisters had to. More like go out and throw the football.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 24, 2014 8:04:01 GMT -5
My great-aunt was the oldest girl of 11 kids. She and my uncle basically raised the younger ones (her dad died when the youngest was just a few months old and the mom had to work to feed the family). Neither she nor her brother ever married or had kids of their own. When I once asked her why she told me she already raised one family and had no desire to do it again. Our former neighbors had no kids. Found out she was the oldest of 11. Said she already raised enough. What a terrible thing to do to your child. If you're referring to my post I have to take exception. Maybe you missed the part where my great-grandfather died and my great grandmother had to work to feed to family? Everyone who could pitched in to make sure the family was kept together. It's what you did in those days instead of relying on welfare for support. No one starved, or was out on the street, but yes life was hard. Shit happens. No one was bitter about it, just had no desire (and to be honest being children during the great depression) probably didn't want to risk ever putting their own kids through that. Out of the eleven only two had kids, my grandmother (who had two) and another great aunt (who had one). They were quite content to spoil my mom and uncle, and her kids after that. They were all very close even as adults and four of them lived together as adults until they passed (except for my Aunt, but that's another story). Not every life is a fairy tale, but somehow people managed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 8:45:48 GMT -5
I have 5 siblings and my brother is 11 years younger than me. Mom had gone back to work after my youngest sister started kindergarten so we all had to help with him. Like The Captain said, we were expected to pitch in and we did. Us girls were the neighborhood babysitters and he helped keep our skills fresh.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 9:02:33 GMT -5
Not everyone that came from a big family viewed it as a negative. My Mom is one of 8, Dad one of 7, FIL one of 13 and MIL one of 9 and a lot of my aunts and uncles had family's of more than 5 kids. I have 42 first cousins and my husband has over 100. That's with about half the aunts and uncles only having 2 kids. I don't think any just had one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 9:04:28 GMT -5
2 sisters have 1, 2 of us have 2 and one of us has 3. As far as my brother knows he is childless right now.
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