gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 10:26:59 GMT -5
My inlaws stopped by last night and since they were over, my husband surprised them by handing them $3000 cash. They asked what it's for and he said for the house. Back story: When my husband was 23, his 85 year old paternal grandfather was in financial ruin and lost his house. My husband's parents came up with a great idea to have their youngest son, fresh out of college with a good job, buy a nice new 3br/2ba house with a garage his grandfather could live that was right across the street from their house. Since he only had student loans to his name, his parents sweetened the deal by offering to put up 30K so he could avoid PMI.
His grandfather died in 2010, but the 8 years he lived there, his grandfather couldn't afford to pay for all his living/housing expenses, so my husband paid all the utilities and real estate taxes, I'd conservatively estimate approximately 36K over that time. In the past three years, the house has done well being rented out and when it's not empty- is actually cash flow positive. They all think it's a great investment. I personally think his parent give horrible financial advice and have managed to lose my husband another 10K in a stupid investment idea they suckered him into.
Last night, my husband also volunteered they should give him their bank account number and he'll transfer the remaining 27K. They asked me if that's okay with me and how I feel about it, to which I responded- it's between you three. They insisted I should have a say-so and they didn't want to put us in a hardship, but I kept my mouth shut and refused to give my opinion.
I kind of think it's bullsh#t, though and want to tell them they weren't helping him out like they insist they were. They were helping their dad out. This house was in a rural county, my husband bought a condo in the city where he could actually have fun and was saddled with supplementing his granddad all those years. He wouldn't have had the burden had they come up with a different way to take care of granddad- perhaps one that was within his granddad's means. His parents don't really know how much he was on the hook for that.
Over the years, his mom has also told me how they have helped out each child about equally- one son with rehab, one daughter with a house down payment and wedding, another son with a house down payment and I'm not sure about the other son, school maybe. During one candid conversation a few years ago when the topic of all this "supposed help" came up again, I carefully mentioned- I thought my husband was the one helping out the situation by buying that house, to which his mom actually agreed and back-peddled a bit. I just don't see how they can justify what they did for my husband as "help".
I think it's great and honorable that my husband is paying them back, but I still think it's B.S.
|
|
Nazgul Girl
Junior Associate
Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:25:02 GMT -5
Posts: 5,913
Today's Mood: excellent
|
Post by Nazgul Girl on Dec 13, 2013 10:30:45 GMT -5
Can he just quit claim the house over to his folks in lieu of you guys losing $ 27,000 in cash ? I wouldn't repay them for him supplementing gramps. Seriously, why is he paying them back ? Is this your residence now ?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 5:09:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 10:32:06 GMT -5
If the 30k wasn't paid back and was a gift, that would have been them helping. Since it is being paid back, they did nothing for him.
Has the house appreciated in value over all these years?
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 10:33:28 GMT -5
No, we have never lived there. I should add that part of my resentment is the fact that 6 of those year my husband (bf at the time) rented out his condo and shacked up at my house free. So, in actuality, it was my dumb@ss doing all the supplementing!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 5:09:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 10:33:55 GMT -5
Sounds like your husband feels like he was helped out to the tune of $30,000.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 5:09:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 10:34:52 GMT -5
Are you common potters?
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 10:36:18 GMT -5
No, the value is stagnate and the house remains at risk for an additional special assessment of 20K if the county decides to put sewers in. His parents say it's unlikely to happen, but I have my doubts. Like I said, they give horrible financial advice.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 10:37:52 GMT -5
Not exactly, we are lazy and haven't combined everything- but considered everything that's in each of our names "ours".
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 5:09:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 10:38:55 GMT -5
No, the value is stagnate and the house remains at risk for an additional special assessment of 20K if the county decides to put sewers in. His parents say it's unlikely to happen, but I have my doubts. Like I said, they give horrible financial advice. Time to deed it over to them since it was such a great "investment".
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 10:41:02 GMT -5
Sounds like your husband feels like he was helped out to the tune of $30,000. Probably, I think the past 3 years of cash-flow positive rent has made him forget about how much that house cost him the previous years. Or maybe he doesn't think about it because I was the one covering our expenses while he sat on two cashflow negative properties.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 5:09:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 10:48:24 GMT -5
Sounds like your husband feels like he was helped out to the tune of $30,000. Probably, I think the past 3 years of cash-flow positive rent has made him forget about how much that house cost him the previous years. Or maybe he doesn't think about it because I was the one covering our expenses while he sat on two cashflow negative properties. maybe. In which case you should ask your husband to pay you back.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 10:58:20 GMT -5
No, the value is stagnate and the house remains at risk for an additional special assessment of 20K if the county decides to put sewers in. His parents say it's unlikely to happen, but I have my doubts. Like I said, they give horrible financial advice. Time to deed it over to them since it was such a great "investment". That wouldn't benefit us because the house is actually making money now that it is rented to people who can afford to live there. What's done is done and what's lost is lost. There is plenty of equity because my husband has been prepaying the mortgage. He thought he would pay them back when he sold the home- given that the equity is there, but I guess he is feeling generous. They are pretty strapped for cash right now because they are building a new home and aren't going to list their current house until the late summer/fall. They weren't expecting to have to pay closing cost on the construction loan and the closing cost on the mortgage.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,258
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 13, 2013 10:59:42 GMT -5
I don't think you should keep your mouth shut. $27k is A LOT of money and it appears your husband is still holding onto the property with a potential future cost of another $20k. So in essence you sunk another $47k into this venture.
I'd speak up and say before he does ANYTHING you both need to meet with a finanical advisor and an expert in real estate.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 10:59:54 GMT -5
Probably, I think the past 3 years of cash-flow positive rent has made him forget about how much that house cost him the previous years. Or maybe he doesn't think about it because I was the one covering our expenses while he sat on two cashflow negative properties. maybe. In which case you should ask your husband to pay you back. Don't get me started...
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 11:03:21 GMT -5
I don't think you should keep your mouth shut. $27k is A LOT of money and it appears your husband is still holding onto the property with a potential future cost of another $20k. So in essence you sunk another $47k into this venture. I'd speak up and say before he does ANYTHING you both need to meet with a finanical advisor and an expert in real estate. Unless hubby wants to go into the landlord business it's time to offload that house before his parents die. If they think it's such a great investment sign it over to them. Probably not a bad idea. We did sort of fall into the landlord business given that three of our properties are rented out and actually all making money, finally.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 13, 2013 11:11:52 GMT -5
I think that you need to gather together the numbers and sit your husband down to show him in black and white how much this house has cost him.
I also think that you do have a say in this.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,741
|
Post by raeoflyte on Dec 13, 2013 11:12:51 GMT -5
Did your dh talk to you before telling his parents he is giving them $30k? That's a lot of money even if you're not common potters I think most couples would need to agree on anything with that big a price tag on it.
How does your husband feel about helping out his grandfather those years?
I remember one of your first posts that he was putting all his money into investments and you were covering bills. That can definitely cause resentment especially if he doesn't even realize the position that put you in.
Your husband sounds very generous which is a great quality. He might just need a reminder of priority order for that generosity.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Dec 13, 2013 11:14:10 GMT -5
maybe. In which case you should ask your husband to pay you back. Don't get me started... I don't want to sound snarky but did you ever tell him this? He may not even realize how much money you actually had to pay to allow him to subsidize grandpa. it may be obvious to you and us but he may not actually ever have put everything together and realized how much money you personally put out for that house to subsidize granpa let alone how much that house has actually cost overall.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 5:09:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 11:16:22 GMT -5
I don't want to make $30k sound like a small amount of money, but I don't think good decision will be hurting if her husband pays back his parents.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 11:20:32 GMT -5
I don't want to sound snarky but did you ever tell him this? He may not even realize how much money you actually had to pay to allow him to subsidize grandpa. it may be obvious to you and us but he may not actually ever have put everything together and realized how much money you personally put out for that house to subsidize granpa let alone how much that house has actually cost overall. It's not snarky at all. Yes, we have never been able to come to agreement on "my argument" as he thinks that my living expenses were mine and not "ours" because he was paying expenses at his other two properties. His condo was rented to a buddy for 5 years who couldn't afford to live there, so he was supplementing that place as well. He probably would have felt a lot differently about supplementing both place had he not been living with me for free. I posted the whole saga years ago when we were dating. I've had to let it go, although it bugs me to this day that he doesn't see it my way.
|
|
swasat
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 9:34:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,735
|
Post by swasat on Dec 13, 2013 11:21:56 GMT -5
maybe. In which case you should ask your husband to pay you back. Don't get me started... Why? Why don't you want to bring this up with your husband? your concerns are valid. You paid for his living expenses when he was helping his grandparents out. Would he be able to do it if you were not covering his expenses? Maybe.... But you still helped !! I am curious too. Did you husband talk to you before he decided to give the $30K? Normally I don't come between my Dh and his parents, even though we are common potters. But my husband never makes decisions about big chunks of money with consulting with me first. I rememebrr one of initial threads where we had a long drawn discussion about your then boyfriend. It appears to me you are carrying some resentment over the fact that you supported him for free all those years and seems to me the resentment is less financial but more due to the fact that your DH does not realise how much you supported him. i would talk to him and be honest about your feelings. But then I am really bad at holding any resentment in. For me it has always helped to be open about feelings with my spouse. YMMV, but please, do talk to him and clear the air.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 5:09:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 11:24:07 GMT -5
If you are so against it why is your husband doing it? I hope it is him you are upset with and not the inlaws.
|
|
swasat
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 9:34:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,735
|
Post by swasat on Dec 13, 2013 11:24:45 GMT -5
Sorry, i posted before I saw your last post.
So your DH thinks that you did not support him during those 6 years? Did he pay you any living expenses? Covered ANY bills? Bought groceries and stuff? Spoiled you in any way?
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Dec 13, 2013 11:28:15 GMT -5
Did your dh talk to you before telling his parents he is giving them $30k? That's a lot of money even if you're not common potters I think most couples would need to agree on anything with that big a price tag on it. How does your husband feel about helping out his grandfather those years? I remember one of your first posts that he was putting all his money into investments and you were covering bills. That can definitely cause resentment especially if he doesn't even realize the position that put you in. Your husband sounds very generous which is a great quality. He might just need a reminder of priority order for that generosity. He has and I told him he should do what he feels is right. And, hearing Suze Orman (don't you judge me!)say it a million times, I believe in people first, then money, then things. My parents would have never put me in that position. So, I'm really okay with it, I just disagree with some of the statements his parents have made about it over the years- especially in regards to the use of the word "help" when it comes to this house. My husband is not one to share feelings and sentiments. He is not particularly generous and is very tight with money, but I do think there is a pride thing in paying his parents this money.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,258
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 13, 2013 11:29:01 GMT -5
I've had to let it go, although it bugs me to this day that he doesn't see it my way.
But you haven't let it go. If it was $27k and done MAYBE I'd keep my mouth shut but this has been going on since you were dating and appears like it's going to be ongoing till his parents pass and/or you guys hit a wall and something has to be decided about that property.
I'd recommend a finanical advisor, while you can't recoup what's already disappeared you can going forward fix things.
You also should seek marital counseling because it sounds like things are very unequal in your marriage. You also seem to have a problem speaking up.
His parents have it right that absolutely you should have a say. .
|
|
swasat
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 9:34:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,735
|
Post by swasat on Dec 13, 2013 11:34:06 GMT -5
Did your dh talk to you before telling his parents he is giving them $30k? That's a lot of money even if you're not common potters I think most couples would need to agree on anything with that big a price tag on it. How does your husband feel about helping out his grandfather those years? I remember one of your first posts that he was putting all his money into investments and you were covering bills. That can definitely cause resentment especially if he doesn't even realize the position that put you in. Your husband sounds very generous which is a great quality. He might just need a reminder of priority order for that generosity. He has and I told him he should do what he feels is right. And, hearing Suze Orman (don't you judge me!)say it a million times, I believe in people first, then money, then things. My parents would have never put me in that position. So, I'm really okay with it, I just disagree with some of the statements his parents have made about it over the years- especially in regards to the use of the word "help" when it comes to this house. My husband is not one to share feelings and sentiments. He is not particularly generous and is very tight with money, but I do think there is a pride thing in paying his parents this money.Thats odd. So he thinks his parents helped him by paying him 30K to buy a house. But he does not think that YOU helped in any ways by letting him stay with you for 6 years without expecting anything in return?
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Dec 13, 2013 11:35:54 GMT -5
He has and I told him he should do what he feels is right. And, hearing Suze Orman (don't you judge me!)say it a million times, I believe in people first, then money, then things. My parents would have never put me in that position. So, I'm really okay with it You're sending mixed messages.
You want to believe that you believe in people first, then money, then things. And you're trying to be "good" and not say something that will cause a fight or be hurtful. But your actions - including resenting him for years about financial decisions - tell a different story.
Your husband has asked for your input. Your inlaws have asked for your input. If you do not give it, it's not reasonable to stew over whatever they end up doing. If this really troubles you, then you need to put on your big girl panties and figure out a way to discuss it.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Dec 13, 2013 11:48:30 GMT -5
I doubt you're going to like this comment. I do think your husband is out of line, but I also think you're out of line. And the biggest problem is you're out of line with each other, and that's going to cause MAJOR issues soon if you don't fix it.
HOW YOUR HUSBAND IS OUT OF LINE Giving his parents $3000 cash and telling them he has another $27k for them is a great surprise for them. It should never be a surprise for you. He should have asked you about this before he ever brought it up with them. You could have voiced your objections privately. The two of you could have come, perhaps, to some kind of compromise or agreement. And then, if he had gone through with giving them money, when you were asked how you felt, you could have honestly replied that the two of you had already discussed this and you were on board.
HOW YOU ARE OUT OF LINE It sounds to me like you have a lot of financial issues with your husband, and a lot of resentment building up. To try and make your life easier, you are transferring that resentment on to his parents. From your version of events, they didn't ask to be paid back. This was not a loan. It was a gift. And while you may feel strong resentment from the time period you were supporting your DH (then BF), I bet he has no regrets, no matter how hard it may have been, about supporting his grandfather. (The decision to rent out his condo and live with you rent free is another story, and also one of those things the two of you should have talked about/hashed out BEFORE it happened, exactly to avoid this kind of resentment.) You see the gift of the money so he could afford to buy the house as his parents shifting the care of grandpa onto your husband, instead of taking it on themselves. I doubt anyone in their family, including your husband, sees it that way. First off, did your husband ever tell his parents how much he ended up financially supporting his grandpa? There's a good chance, as I see it, that they have no idea. And that is your husband's choice. Secondly, they moved grandpa in right across the street from them. You can not tell me that they were not taking care of grandpa. It may not have been complete financial support, but they were the people there physically and emotionally caring for him. You need to get over your resentment of your husband helping care for his family. To me, that's a good thing in a partner, but for you, right now, at least, it's not. You need to be able to talk to me about your financial resentment. Because if you don't, you are going to poison your relationship with his parents and then with him.
HIS PARENTS ARE NOT OUT OF LINE No matter what you happen to think of their financial advice, your in-laws have done well enough to raise and financially help out 5(?) adult children. They also assisted at least one of their parents. They are now able to build their own home to retire in (at least that's my guess as to it's purpose). They did some poor planning around when all payments would be due, but they are still financially able to do this. Your husband feels that the two of you are doing well enough that he can gift his parents $30k. Please don't get into the idea that he's paying them back. He is choosing to give them a gift and calling it a loan repayment to save their pride. Before accepting, his parents, quite nicely, asked to know that you were on board with this idea. The fact that you felt you could not answer honestly is NOT their fault. That's your husband's fault. But he also likely knew what your response would be (it doesn't sound like you hide your resentment very well), and decided that he wanted to do this, regardless, so did an end around. Again, that's an issue between the two of you that has nothing to do with his parents.
Now maybe I just view the world a little differently than you. Both my parents and my MIL have loaned C and I money (which we paid back). They all gifted us money, too. C and I have loaned family money (which has always been paid back) and gifted family money to. We financially, physically, and emotionally supported MIL (and what I wouldn't have given for it just to be financial). Loans have gone to my brother. Gifts have gone to my cousin. We have both said "no" to helping out each other's family once or twice, too, based on our financial situation. We have no financial resentment because we have always talked about the situations. Both of us always have the opportunity to say no without it being a blame game. That means when we say yes, and loan or gift someone money, we're both happy about the decision. And it makes a huge difference.
For whatever reason, you and your husband are so off the same page, I'm not certain you are in the same book. You sound as if you have no respect for his financial judgement. (And yet, while it did require down payment help from his parents), your husband was doing well enough to own (or have mortgaged) two properties at the same time, and now feels he has enough to give his parents $30k. That sounds like things aren't going so bad to me. And again, I think someone who is willing to take care of their family is a good trait in a partner. To me, it means they will willingly take care of me if something happens. But, to paraphrase Lena, that's just me, and what do I know anyway.
|
|
Bonny
Junior Associate
Joined: Nov 17, 2013 10:54:37 GMT -5
Posts: 7,437
Location: No Place Like Home!
|
Post by Bonny on Dec 13, 2013 11:48:33 GMT -5
milee said:
Your husband has asked for your input. Your inlaws have asked for your input. If you do not give it, it's not reasonable to stew over whatever they end up doing. If this really troubles you, then you need to put on your big girl panties and figure out a way to discuss it.
This was my first thought when reading the O.P. You are asked for input, you refused and then you are very resentful. I don't like being put on the spot either, especially in front of other people but you do need to have a conversation with your husband. Do it privately if it makes you feel better.
You will have these kinds of situations happen throughout your marriage. You need to figure out a way to have a rational discussion.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Dec 13, 2013 11:49:40 GMT -5
I've had to let it go, although it bugs me to this day that he doesn't see it my way.
But you haven't let it go. If it was $27k and done MAYBE I'd keep my mouth shut but this has been going on since you were dating and appears like it's going to be ongoing till his parents pass and/or you guys hit a wall and something has to be decided about that property. I'd recommend a finanical advisor, while you can't recoup what's already disappeared you can going forward fix things. You also should seek marital counseling because it sounds like things are very unequal in your marriage. You also seem to have a problem speaking up. His parents have it right that absolutely you should have a say. . I'm going to echo Drama about the marriage counseling. You REALLY need to talk about all this with your husband! You are not going to be able to "just let this go". And he is never going to actually understand what you feel with you not saying it or him not wanted to talk about it. Doing it with a disintristed third party would be a huge help to get you two to understand each other's POV. IMO you desperately need to understand each other's side and come to an agreement, before sinking even more $$$ into a home you probably won't ever make money on.
|
|