NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Nov 17, 2013 23:00:35 GMT -5
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 17, 2013 23:05:00 GMT -5
Can you imagine if someone opened a school aimed at "white, upper middle class boys".
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JustLurkin
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Post by JustLurkin on Nov 18, 2013 0:01:02 GMT -5
"Buckley School is a private K-12 school for boys on the Upper East Side of Manhattan in New York." Annnnnd...?
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Nov 18, 2013 0:14:12 GMT -5
Earlier times? Single sex schools haven't closed their doors. I went to an all-girls school, my brother went to an all boys school, while my younger brother and sister chose to go to the coed public school. In a different city, my DH went to an all boys school, and his sister went to an all girls school. All of those schools have continued to function.
I think the advantages in the school described are not that it is all boys, but in the leadership and value training. I also think that any better results come from the self selection - those in the school actively chose to attend that school, and are invested in it and its mission.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 18, 2013 2:01:18 GMT -5
I didn't realize same sex private schools had gone away? They may not be as common as they once were, but I thought they still existed.
I know of a few all male colleges that have operated like that for a long time.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 18, 2013 7:17:17 GMT -5
In my hometown, there's a junior high that has always been substandard. With a few exceptions, most of the kids there lack parental supervision and involvement. They have consistently failed testing to the point that the students are allowed to transfer to any other public junior high in the county and the county has to accommodate them. They divided at least the core classes (math/science/english) out by sex. It was working and their scores were way up.
Some national busybody group stuck its nose in and threatened to sue the county for discrimination. I'm rather pissed the board didn't tell them to shove it. Everyone actually at the school was in favor of and liked the arrangement. No one was stuck with the arrangement because at the time they could have transferred to four other schools. They actually found something that worked! That school has always been a problem for as long as I remember and I'm 29. When my parents house hunted, that school district ruled out many houses and this was known even when I was in elementary school.
I think like everything else there are tradeoffs but I don't see a problem with it.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Nov 18, 2013 7:37:31 GMT -5
? There are quite a bit of private single sex schools around here.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 18, 2013 8:16:46 GMT -5
I would love single sex schools. The people I know that went to them just loved it, both boys and girls. I liked their strength of character and how they never just went along with the crowd. I'm not saying others don't but in my limited school experience, it wasnt that way.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 18, 2013 9:18:11 GMT -5
Can you imagine if someone opened a school aimed at "white, upper middle class boys". No, not exactly. In my city, it's called "private" school for a reason. They don't exclude girls, but I don't think one "poor" family attends our school. Infact, it's a little warped in that nice middle class is equated with being poor. In most of society, we are a have. In the bubble of private school, we are a have not. But in my city, African American boys have a 50-50 shot of graduating HS and the same odds of being incarcerated. Do you really think these boys have the same chances in life that my son or your sons do? The leader of the Urban League in my city tried to get a charter school going for African American kids. School would be from 8-6, with after school clubs for homework and what not. They were to wear uniforms, etc...Of course, the proposal got voted down many times. I'm sure that my public school district isn't alone in that there is 1) no desire and 2) no knowledge of how to educate poor kids, particularly the Africian Americans. (In my district, that Latino/Hispanic and Asian populations out perform African Americans.) Something has to be done. We've seen over and over again how the educated are having fewer and few kids. Somehow, the minorities are going to HAVE to be lifted up in education and vocation, otherwise, it's going to be a scary world in my twilight years... I just googled it, and according to this site usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/13/18934111-census-white-majority-in-us-gone-by-2043The population younger than 5 stood at 49.9 percent minority in 2012. The White Majority in the US population is gone by 2043.
I also really like this from the article the OP posted School days begin with a town hall meeting where students share burdens like a mother's health scare and then recite "Invictus," the Victorian-era poem about overcoming adversity that proclaims, " I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."
At least its a start to get some of the population of out a learned helplessness mindset.. There was just another blurb on time about how public schools are failing boys and favoring girls...I can't find it now...I really do think this is a serious issue...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 9:26:29 GMT -5
My nephew went to Buckley- good school.
A former coworker went to an all-boys' HS (this would have been in the 1970s) and would always get on his high horse about how they try to force all-male schools to accept girls but not vice versa. He really thought the male bonding was good.
OTOH, I went to a Roman Catholic HS that started out with the boys on one side and the girls on the other. We met only in the cafeteria. There was even a giant curtain down the middle of the gym. I hated it. I wasn't a flirt, I wasn't extremely atttractive (especially in that ugly uniform) and I thought it was artificial. I even wrote a letter to the bishop complaiming about it. They changed it my senior year but I think it had more to do with economy rather than my letter to the bishop!
It all depends on the kid. I'm sure there are girls and boys who will do better without the distraction of the opposite sex. In my case, I ended up with mostly guys in my college classes and I found that I did much better working side-by-side with them and getting excited about computer geek and math geek stuff together. DS, given the choices of two military boarding schooils that had both accepted him, chose the one that was co-ed and that was his primary reason for choosing it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 10:12:21 GMT -5
Giramomma - Re: the poor minority problem....it's just easier to throw them welfare money and complain about thugs/welfare rats than it is to actually re-vamp the education system in poor urban areas.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 18, 2013 10:17:57 GMT -5
Giramomma - Re: the poor minority problem....it's just easier to throw them welfare money and complain about thugs/welfare rats than it is to actually re-vamp the education system in poor urban areas. I think revamping them requires a different approach than our system is used to. The model gira described as being voted down probably would be successful. Some parents in those areas do care but they are busy working 2-3 jobs to keep a roof over everyone's head and food on table. And some of the parents just don't care.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 10:28:25 GMT -5
Giramomma - Re: the poor minority problem....it's just easier to throw them welfare money and complain about thugs/welfare rats than it is to actually re-vamp the education system in poor urban areas. Many of the good private schools offer scholarships. There were a fair number of kids from Brooklyn and the Bronx in my son's school. I knew that by paying the sticker price I was helping to pay for kids whose parents wanted to get them out of the 'hood but who didn't have the bucks to send them to a private school. I was happy to support that. In fact, one of the unexpected blessings of that school was that he ended up working with a far more diverse group of kids than he would have in our white-bread suburb. Ten years later, I'm still sending them occasional donations.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 18, 2013 10:41:07 GMT -5
Giramomma - Re: the poor minority problem....it's just easier to throw them welfare money and complain about thugs/welfare rats than it is to actually re-vamp the education system in poor urban areas. I'm not in the same city as Giramomma but we've been tossing money at the schools here for at least 25 years. One of the writers for the paper recently had an article on a story he wrote about the public schools 20 or 30 years ago. And really, nothing has changed.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 18, 2013 10:43:09 GMT -5
Giramomma - Re: the poor minority problem....it's just easier to throw them welfare money and complain about thugs/welfare rats than it is to actually re-vamp the education system in poor urban areas. I think revamping them requires a different approach than our system is used to. The model gira described as being voted down probably would be successful. Some parents in those areas do care but they are busy working 2-3 jobs to keep a roof over everyone's head and food on table. And some of the parents just don't care. I know. It sounds kinda weird, but it's one of the reasons I won't send my kids to public school, because they do a terrible job at educating the African Americans. Next year, if I can clear some space in my schedule next year, I'll probably start volunteering in our neighborhood school. Simply because I know the working poor have less job flexibility than I do. A couple of years ago, our school system did a trial program to get kids who were behind in reading to read at grade level. Apparently, it's too costly to get 7th graders to read at grade level. So, rather than try to help some kids, they won't help anyone at all. Our city is weird too..There are still too many educated folks..We have a major university, as well as city and state government to prop things up. Even with 50% of the school aged kids in our city coming from low income families, many still question whether or not our city has a "problem."
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 18, 2013 10:46:06 GMT -5
I think the system fails because some of the kids in those areas need a lot more support than the classic system is designed to provide. That system assumes and needs parents to be actively involved in their child's education. When you don't have that key piece it breaks down.
Those kids would probably benefit very much from something was described. They need someone else to make them do their homework, to help them with it, etc. In short they need more assistance and support than your typical public school system will offer.
Some private schools do this very well but the public ones don't as a whole.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 18, 2013 10:48:19 GMT -5
Giramomma - Re: the poor minority problem....it's just easier to throw them welfare money and complain about thugs/welfare rats than it is to actually re-vamp the education system in poor urban areas. I'm not in the same city as Giramomma but we've been tossing money at the schools here for at least 25 years. One of the writers for the paper recently had an article on a story he wrote about the public schools 20 or 30 years ago. And really, nothing has changed. When Act 10 was in the news, there was a small piece on This American Life, about a small program in Chicago. They took at risk kids and taught them soft skills, like how to take initiative, asking questions in class, how to behave, stay out of trouble, etc. As it turns out, while these kids did not set the world on fire, they managed to pull themselves up enough grade wise, to get accepted into college and get decent grades their first year. The economist that was part of this study said that he was super excited that there was a study that had good results that didn't cost anyone any additional dollars. I was excited when our new superintendent came from Chicago. I thought surely, she must know of this small pilot programs, and others just like it. I thought surely she would bring this kind of knowledge to our school district. Nope. The first thing she did was put forth a budget that would raise taxes to hire more administrators. (Yet, another reason why we are not in the public schools.)
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 18, 2013 10:48:39 GMT -5
I think revamping them requires a different approach than our system is used to. The model gira described as being voted down probably would be successful. Some parents in those areas do care but they are busy working 2-3 jobs to keep a roof over everyone's head and food on table. And some of the parents just don't care. I know. It sounds kinda weird, but it's one of the reasons I won't send my kids to public school, because they do a terrible job at educating the African Americans. Next year, if I can clear some space in my schedule next year, I'll probably start volunteering in our neighborhood school. Simply because I know the working poor have less job flexibility than I do. A couple of years ago, our school system did a trial program to get kids who were behind in reading to read at grade level. Apparently, it's too costly to get 7th graders to read at grade level. So, rather than try to help some kids, they won't help anyone at all. Our city is weird too..There are still too many educated folks..We have a major university, as well as city and state government to prop things up. Even with 50% of the school aged kids in our city coming from low income families, many still question whether or not our city has a "problem." The part about the 7th graders is just heart breaking to me. We are saying sorry it costs too much and giving up on them at this young age. And I'm sure they didn't give two seconds thought to where the system failed these kids in prior years. Some kids need a little extra attention, some need it explained a different way but giving up on 7th graders makes me ill.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 18, 2013 10:52:29 GMT -5
Actually, what made me more ill was the fact that teachers were shocked that spending if these kids spent an extra hour a day reading, over the course of a school year or two, they were reading at grade level. I'm like, well duh. I could have told you that and saved the expense of having a small pilot program.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 18, 2013 10:53:17 GMT -5
I'm not in the same city as Giramomma but we've been tossing money at the schools here for at least 25 years. One of the writers for the paper recently had an article on a story he wrote about the public schools 20 or 30 years ago. And really, nothing has changed. When Act 10 was in the news, there was a small piece on This American Life, about a small program in Chicago. They took at risk kids and taught them soft skills, like how to take initiative, asking questions in class, how to behave, stay out of trouble, etc. As it turns out, while these kids did not set the world on fire, they managed to pull themselves up enough grade wise, to get accepted into college and get decent grades their first year. The economist that was part of this study said that he was super excited that there was a study that had good results that didn't cost anyone any additional dollars. I was excited when our new superintendent came from Chicago. I thought surely, she must know of this small pilot programs, and others just like it. I thought surely she would bring this kind of knowledge to our school district. Nope. The first thing she did was put forth a budget that would raise taxes to hire more administrators. (Yet, another reason why we are not in the public schools.) I'd consider that program to be a complete success. That is exactly the type of program some of those kids need. They didn't learn those skills at home for whatever reason. I did some work in college with at risk, low income, first generation college students. It was completely eye opening to me. My parents didn't help me with a lot of things I helped those kids with but I figured it out. I also had the assistance of the honors program. These kids had no one but us to guide them throw the maze. Many of them care from households where the parents didn't even have a HS diploma. They'd gone from being the kids you expect to be in jail not college and had little assistance in that transition besides the program I was working with.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 18, 2013 10:55:35 GMT -5
Actually, what made me more ill was the fact that teachers were shocked that spending if these kids spent an extra hour a day reading, over the course of a school year or two, they were reading at grade level. I'm like, well duh. I could have told you that and saved the expense of having a small pilot program. That is sad as well that the teachers gave up on them and didn't believe in them. If the kids don't have good role models at home and no one believes in them, what do we think is going to happen. Again this is an example of what a little extra help and tweaking the system will do. My first few years of school, I attended school in a poor, rural district. We had one school for each grade set for the entire county. That district had programs for extra assistance for math and reading for those who needed it. I'm sure it is easier to manage when you don't have multiple schools in a district but it can be done.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Nov 18, 2013 13:54:24 GMT -5
Some children should be taken away from parents for vast amounts of time. I have seen American children born to immigrant children where the parents don't even try to teach them English even if they speak it some. Even if they try to teach the children the parents don't know grammar. Put those kids in daycare very young with people who are English as a first language for 8 hours a day so they get full exposure to English and corrected when they don't use it correctly. All children should learn to speak English in a standard manner. They came up with the idea of Ebonics being acceptable which really hurts kids trying to become adults in corporate America. The programs like head start can work to teach them skills like reading but even preschool non readers start to differ by family background. If a child is using phrases that are wrong or pronounced wrong and adult should correct them. For example I have seen young people use the phrase "I borrowed him some money." They should be told it is "I loaned him some money" Then explained when to use borrow, loan, lend so they will know. In our family the parents do it but if parents don't know then someone else needs to help the children so they don't grow up saying things like "I axed my friend if he would borrow me some money"
Taking them from say 8AM to 6PM 5 days a week would mean they had less time with ignorant parents and could be fed regular meals, homework help, exercise and be out of violent households. They could even stay later for clubs and sports if they wanted.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Nov 18, 2013 13:56:33 GMT -5
[img src=" images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif" src="http://images.proboards.com/v5/images/smiley/huh.png" style="max-width:100%;"]? There are quite a bit of private single sex schools around here. Single sex PRIVATE schools ARE still thriving. YDS went to one for a year and thrived. He actually loved school that year. But, he came back to coed public school when we had a disheartening experience with ODS's application the following year. The school reported on in the OP's story, however, is a PUBLIC school. Public schools are subject to all kinds of anti-discrimination rules/laws that private schools aren't. That is why the school in the OP is so noteworthy.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Nov 18, 2013 14:42:14 GMT -5
[img src=" images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif" src="http://images.proboards.com/v5/images/smiley/huh.png" style="max-width:100%;"]? There are quite a bit of private single sex schools around here. Single sex PRIVATE schools ARE still thriving. YDS went to one for a year and thrived. He actually loved school that year. But, he came back to coed public school when we had a disheartening experience with ODS's application the following year. The school reported on in the OP's story, however, is a PUBLIC school. Public schools are subject to all kinds of anti-discrimination rules/laws that private schools aren't. That is why the school in the OP is so noteworthy. Philly has single-sex public schools. They're very competitive. I don't find single-sex public schools to be shocking.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Nov 18, 2013 14:46:37 GMT -5
Can you imagine if someone opened a school aimed at "white, upper middle class boys". Are you under teh impression that those don't exist??
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 18, 2013 14:51:00 GMT -5
Can you imagine if someone opened a school aimed at "white, upper middle class boys". Are you under teh impression that those don't exist?? They're called Exeter, Choate, and Hotchkiss.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Nov 18, 2013 15:21:57 GMT -5
I think the system fails because some of the kids in those areas need a lot more support than the classic system is designed to provide. That system assumes and needs parents to be actively involved in their child's education. When you don't have that key piece it breaks down. Having a parent at least somewhat interested and involved in education makes all the difference. We also have to go after these kids much younger. Not that they shouldn't try, but why wait until 7th grade to try to help a kid unable to read at grade level? We should be helping the kids that are behind starting in 1st grade. I don't know if it is the same study referenced earlier, but I heard about one years ago where they gave at-risk kids free pre-school. Those kids ended up doing much better later in life - more likely to graduate, less likely to end up in jail, etc. The results were interpreted as these kids learned soft-skills (sharing, compromising, working out differences, following directions, etc) that those kids who didn't attend were unable to learn. The thought is that there are certain key points in childhood where skills are either learned or they aren't and if you miss the timeframe, then you may never really grasp the skill and will struggle throughout life. I think there needs to be a lot more focus on really early education. Don't wait until these kids are in their teens to try to tackle a problem that has been building for a decade. Maybe as part of welfare, all kids in families receiving certain benefits should also be attending extra school because they are at-risk.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 18, 2013 15:25:17 GMT -5
Can you imagine if someone opened a school aimed at "white, upper middle class boys". Are you under teh impression that those don't exist?? I am under "impression" that if anyone went on record to say such thing all hell would break loose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 15:36:51 GMT -5
Philly has single-sex public schools. They're very competitive. I don't find single-sex public schools to be shocking. Yes- the friend I mentioned earlier went to Philadelphia HS for Boys. Darn smart guy, too.
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JustLurkin
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Post by JustLurkin on Nov 18, 2013 18:58:26 GMT -5
Are you under teh impression that those don't exist?? I am under "impression" that if anyone went on record to say such thing all hell would break loose. "On the record", the schools in the original post are for low-income boys in Harlem. Just like the other school I mentioned (should have taken out the name, sorry) is for boys in the Upper East Side of Manhattan in New York. We all know who each school is likely attended by, but it really wasn't the point of the article. There are more low-income boarding schools starting in Baltimore and DC, which is a good thing--and is helping bring up graduation rates in both areas. The drop out rates in both locations are astonishing to me considering I grew up halfway between the two and graduation was really no big deal, more of a rite of passage than celebration--it was something you are supposed to do. I originally went to college to teach high school and decided I just couldn't stomach it. Teachers now are more social worker than teacher, and parents can the worst part of teaching. I always try to best to be nice to my sons teachers and provide any classroom supplies I notice missing when I visit. I remember learning the poem in high school. I also remember us asking the English teacher to tell us about teaching in Baltimore (was probably a request to expound on a comment). My English teacher was hard on us, she was tough as nails and probably the hardest class in our school. I can't remember the words, but I remember she talked about bringing food everyday because her students were hungry, and bringing clothes because they didn't always have the seasonally appropriate item, and I remember her voice cracking and her leaving the room. I can't imagine witnessing, let alone living, that every day.
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