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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 17, 2013 19:59:30 GMT -5
free your mind, and watch:
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jul 17, 2013 21:29:52 GMT -5
Can't say I am surprised.
Read a book called Richistan- very interesting what goes on in that world and they way they think.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 17, 2013 21:35:40 GMT -5
Can't say I am surprised.
Read a book called Richistan- very interesting what goes on in that world and they way they think. in both cases it is groupthink. but what i found interesting is this: the perception that the poor have of the rich as being out of touch, and indifferent to the plight of the poor is spot on. the perception that the rich have of the poor being just as self centered as they are, and looking for a free ride could not be further from reality.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 17, 2013 21:54:51 GMT -5
Very interesting, dj. Thanks! I found it encouraging that going through these experiences had an overall effect on the thinking of both sides of the have/have not equation. Perhaps, in there somewhere, is an opportunity to achieve a happy medium. Chalk it up, I guess, to my eternal optimism.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 17, 2013 22:05:44 GMT -5
these findings, if correct, have broad implications in sociology, ethics, and politics. but moreover, they comport nicely with my own experiences.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 22:24:51 GMT -5
You can't have Elitism without Chauvinism... can you?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 17, 2013 22:25:38 GMT -5
these findings, if correct, have broad implications in sociology, ethics, and politics. but moreover, they comport nicely with my own experiences. With mine, as well, dj. It doesn't apply across the board, but I've seen it to apply in the majority of cases.
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 17, 2013 22:36:35 GMT -5
According to this video I should be a billionare.
Yes, rich people are evil evil evil - if only we could get rid of them all...hmmm....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 22:48:12 GMT -5
Is it time for Paul to make an entrance and proceed to instruct us all in how Greed is a Good and Noble thing?
"Isn't it rich... are we a pair? Me, here at last, on the ground, you in mid-air..."
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 17, 2013 22:51:53 GMT -5
According to this video I should be a billionare. Yes, rich people are evil evil evil - if only we could get rid of them all...hmmm.... sorry, but i watched the video 3x, and not once did it say "rich people are evil". what it said is that they have a sense of entitlement which stems from being wealthy itself. this has broad implications for how they interact with others; implications that i have found (being from that class) are LARGELY TRUE. ie- the oft repeated opinion that the poor are freeloading scumbags out to get a quick lazy buck. i am UNWILLING TO BELIEVE THAT THE RICH (or the poor, or any other class of people for that matter) ARE EVIL, SO I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANOTHER EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THEY ARE SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THE POOR. this study actually says something about that, imo. so please, don't keep repeating that ruse that rich people are evil. poor people don't think that, and neither do the rich. you are going to have to do better than simply repeating the same nonsense that we have all heard a thousand times from now on. at least with me, it is no longer working.
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 17, 2013 23:02:01 GMT -5
According to this video I should be a billionare. Yes, rich people are evil evil evil - if only we could get rid of them all...hmmm.... sorry, but i watched the video 3x, and not once did it say "rich people are evil". what it said is that they have a sense of entitlement which stems from being wealthy itself. this has broad implications for how they interact with others; implications that i have found (being from that class) are LARGELY TRUE. ie- the oft repeated opinion that the poor are freeloading scumbags out to get a quick lazy buck. i am UNWILLING TO BELIEVE THAT THE RICH (or the poor, or any other class of people for that matter) ARE EVIL, SO I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANOTHER EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THEY ARE SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THE POOR. this study actually says something about that, imo. so please, don't keep repeating that ruse that rich people are evil. poor people don't think that, and neither do the rich. you are going to have to do better than simply repeating the same nonsense that we have all heard a thousand times from now on. at least with me, it is no longer working. I'd really like to read the whole study. I find myself wondering if there's a difference between those who were born into wealth and those to whom wealth came later and through their own significant effort. I'd like to know more about the actual status of the players as opposed to their assigned status, and what differences might have been observed there. Heck, I'm just full of questions!
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 17, 2013 23:28:10 GMT -5
sorry, but i watched the video 3x, and not once did it say "rich people are evil". what it said is that they have a sense of entitlement which stems from being wealthy itself. this has broad implications for how they interact with others; implications that i have found (being from that class) are LARGELY TRUE. ie- the oft repeated opinion that the poor are freeloading scumbags out to get a quick lazy buck. i am UNWILLING TO BELIEVE THAT THE RICH (or the poor, or any other class of people for that matter) ARE EVIL, SO I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANOTHER EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THEY ARE SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THE POOR. this study actually says something about that, imo. so please, don't keep repeating that ruse that rich people are evil. poor people don't think that, and neither do the rich. you are going to have to do better than simply repeating the same nonsense that we have all heard a thousand times from now on. at least with me, it is no longer working. I'd really like to read the whole study. I find myself wondering if there's a difference between those who were born into wealth and those to whom wealth came later and through their own significant effort. I'd like to know more about the actual status of the players as opposed to their assigned status, and what differences might have been observed there. Heck, I'm just full of questions! the implication in the study is very much like the implication in the Stanford Prison experiment (http://www.prisonexp.org/)- that this is LEARNED SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. my reasoning for that is that even poor people end up taking on the values of the rich when they suddenly "become" rich. it is kinda fascinating to think about.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 17, 2013 23:29:45 GMT -5
I'd really like to read the whole study. I find myself wondering if there's a difference between those who were born into wealth and those to whom wealth came later and through their own significant effort. I'd like to know more about the actual status of the players as opposed to their assigned status, and what differences might have been observed there. Heck, I'm just full of questions! the implication in the study is very much like the implication in the Stanford Prison experiment (http://www.prisonexp.org/)- that this is LEARNED SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. my reasoning for that is that even poor people end up taking on the values of the rich when they suddenly "become" rich. it is kinda fascinating to think about. Yes, it is fascinating, and I agree a lot of it is probably learned behavior. I just find myself bubbling questions, but it's what I always do when something catches my interest. This has, and I'm going to be doubling down looking for more information.
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Post by EVT1 on Jul 17, 2013 23:30:53 GMT -5
According to this video I should be a billionare. Yes, rich people are evil evil evil - if only we could get rid of them all...hmmm.... sorry, but i watched the video 3x, and not once did it say "rich people are evil". what it said is that they have a sense of entitlement which stems from being wealthy itself. this has broad implications for how they interact with others; implications that i have found (being from that class) are LARGELY TRUE. ie- the oft repeated opinion that the poor are freeloading scumbags out to get a quick lazy buck. i am UNWILLING TO BELIEVE THAT THE RICH (or the poor, or any other class of people for that matter) ARE EVIL, SO I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANOTHER EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THEY ARE SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THE POOR. this study actually says something about that, imo. so please, don't keep repeating that ruse that rich people are evil. poor people don't think that, and neither do the rich. you are going to have to do better than simply repeating the same nonsense that we have all heard a thousand times from now on. at least with me, it is no longer working. You are dead on- there is a huge sense of entitlement- again not all- but from my experience. Along with that is the 'poor people did it to themselves' and they are 'moochers' living off of their hard earned cash. I made a fortune- so what's their problem.... Also correct is that poor people do not think rich people are evil- they would like to be rich too. It is the scumbag corporate rich they despise that exploit the poor- in fact exploit anything and everything they can get their grubby hands on. You can bet they had no sympathy for Wall Street assholes, bankers, politicians, and the rest that make policies that continually make life harder for them. Just read an article about minimum wage workers being paid with debit cards laden with fees- whomever came up with that idea is pretty much evil scum in my book. One example- I know two people that came out of a similar situation- both took over the family business- in this case auto dealerships- one a dealer group and the other a single franchise. One owner sent his kids to college, and then employed them in lower level jobs eventually moving them up into responsible positions- the other stuck their kid as a dealer principal without much more experience than the average salesman and no college. One of these places treats their employees very well, the new owner works his ass off along with his siblings, and knows all of the employees on a first name basis. The other place is run by an asshole rarely there, that sees employees as whining, complaining, overpaid pains in the ass, considers himself an entrepreneur, and is a big opponent of the 'moocher class'- not to mention the crying and complaining over the estate tax he did- and our local state version of it- nevermind he had this succesfull company dropped in his lap making him a millionaire. Guess which one has a NOBAMA sticker on his 100K custom truck And people ask why I don't vote republican anymore- because they are assholes now.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 17, 2013 23:32:32 GMT -5
the implication in the study is very much like the implication in the Stanford Prison experiment (http://www.prisonexp.org/)- that this is LEARNED SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. my reasoning for that is that even poor people end up taking on the values of the rich when they suddenly "become" rich. it is kinda fascinating to think about. Yes, it is fascinating, and I agree a lot of it is probably learned behavior. I just find myself bubbling questions, but it's what I always do when something catches my interest. This has, and I'm going to be doubling down looking for more information. there are several articles, but i don't think there is a book.....YET. however, given the scope of this study, and the fact that it has been repeated a number of times, i am betting that one is in the offing.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 17, 2013 23:33:53 GMT -5
Yes, it is fascinating, and I agree a lot of it is probably learned behavior. I just find myself bubbling questions, but it's what I always do when something catches my interest. This has, and I'm going to be doubling down looking for more information. there are several articles, but i don't think there is a book.....YET. however, given the scope of this study, and the fact that it has been repeated a number of times, i am betting that one is in the offing. I sure hope so. I'm going to be watching for it, and anything else I can find.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 17, 2013 23:38:53 GMT -5
here is why i thought this study was fascinating.
there is a common sound bite that is repeated over and over again, about how the poor are theiving weasels with their grubby hands in the pockets of the rich- that they are lazy goodfornothings looking for the next meal voucher or government handout. that they are tightwads and selfish, and worthless. the implication is that they lie more, they steal more, and that they only care about themselves. but what this study shows is just the opposite. there is more natural empathy than the rich. they are less likely to lie, steal, or hoard. they are basically....for lack of a better term....good people. this is totally contrary to popular mythology, and my challenge to everyone here is to guess WHY that is the case.
hint: look at the social class of the Ministry Of Information.
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 18, 2013 0:00:42 GMT -5
Interesting video. I would have expected no correlation--or no significant correlation.
I also like the fact that they set wealth as the independent variable in the monopoly-type experiments. It establishes that (perceived) wealth creates a sense of entitlement, rather than more obvious explanation that a strong sense of entitlement leads to more wealth.
It might be interesting if they ran experiments with sense of entitlement as the independent variable to see if it "feeds back" into wealth, although establishing a 'rigged' sense of entitlement would be tricky.
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Post by EVT1 on Jul 18, 2013 0:40:26 GMT -5
here is why i thought this study was fascinating. there is a common sound bite that is repeated over and over again, about how the poor are theiving weasels with their grubby hands in the pockets of the rich- that they are lazy goodfornothings looking for the next meal voucher or government handout. that they are tightwads and selfish, and worthless. the implication is that they lie more, they steal more, and that they only care about themselves. but what this study shows is just the opposite. there is more natural empathy than the rich. they are less likely to lie, steal, or hoard. they are basically....for lack of a better term....good people. this is totally contrary to popular mythology, and my challenge to everyone here is to guess WHY that is the case. hint: look at the social class of the Ministry Of Information. There is- and it is no secret where this is coming from- it is the true weasels that make their money pissing people off and pointing to the boogeymen du jour. But- occasionally some very wealthy people tip their hand- like Romney But who do we have on the welfare hater train- the misinformation train- the people that cannot even support their own position without lying- we have the usual folks- Rush, Hannity, Boortz, Levin, etc. Our local guy spent the last two days explaining the welfare problem as an addiction like crack. Intertwined through the whole spiel is the welfare people as he sees them- 100% BLACK and democrat. Democrats -according to him- want to expand government benefits for votes and prefer people to not work. My question to sensible Republicans- just who in the hell is running your party? If you don't stand up to these jerks then that makes you the useless jerks. Someone needs to grow a sack over there before your party disintegrates.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 18, 2013 0:43:17 GMT -5
here is why i thought this study was fascinating. there is a common sound bite that is repeated over and over again, about how the poor are theiving weasels with their grubby hands in the pockets of the rich- that they are lazy goodfornothings looking for the next meal voucher or government handout. that they are tightwads and selfish, and worthless. the implication is that they lie more, they steal more, and that they only care about themselves. but what this study shows is just the opposite. there is more natural empathy than the rich. they are less likely to lie, steal, or hoard. they are basically....for lack of a better term....good people. this is totally contrary to popular mythology, and my challenge to everyone here is to guess WHY that is the case. hint: look at the social class of the Ministry Of Information. There is- and it is no secret where this is coming from- it is the true weasels that make their money pissing people off and pointing to the boogeymen du jour. But- occasionally some very wealthy people tip their hand- like Romney But who do we have on the welfare hater train- the misinformation train- the people that cannot even support their own position without lying- we have the usual folks- Rush, Hannity, Boortz, Levin, etc. Our local guy spent the last two days explaining the welfare problem as an addiction like crack. Intertwined through the whole spiel is the welfare people as he sees them- 100% BLACK and democrat. Democrats -according to him- want to expand government benefits for votes and prefer people to not work. My question to sensible Republicans- just who in the hell is running your party? If you don't stand up to these jerks then that makes you the useless jerks. Someone needs to grow a sack over there before your party disintegrates. if the house fails to pass the immigration bill, the Latino community are going to beat them down cowboy style over the next 5-10 years. no amount of voter-ID laws and redistricting is going to save them.
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Post by EVT1 on Jul 18, 2013 0:49:48 GMT -5
And they don't care.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 18, 2013 1:09:57 GMT -5
not the "principled" ones. but the pragmatists are terrified.
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 18, 2013 1:28:21 GMT -5
I have it on good authority that minorities are powerless, neglected, and politically disenfranchised in America.
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 18, 2013 3:39:21 GMT -5
LOL! Well played.
You, of course, know that I can find numerous studies showing that minorities do in fact have much lower voter turnout percentages, self report having less faith in public institutions, etc., etc. Powerless would be a stretch, but less powerful would be easy. Regardless of which party you vote for, you have to admit that politicians pay attention to people with money and people who vote. Minorities are under-represented at the polls, and more likely to be economically disadvantaged, so they get under-represented on Capitol Hill.
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Post by mtman on Jul 18, 2013 7:40:59 GMT -5
Let's not forget, that the majority of those takers.....Are living on your dime.
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 18, 2013 7:44:56 GMT -5
Let's not forget, that the majority of those takers.....Are living on your dime. I'm fortunate enough to have all I need PLUS that dime. If it helps someone else, I'm glad I've got the dime to give.
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 18, 2013 8:03:42 GMT -5
According to this video I should be a billionare. Yes, rich people are evil evil evil - if only we could get rid of them all...hmmm.... sorry, but i watched the video 3x, and not once did it say "rich people are evil". what it said is that they have a sense of entitlement which stems from being wealthy itself. this has broad implications for how they interact with others; implications that i have found (being from that class) are LARGELY TRUE. ie- the oft repeated opinion that the poor are freeloading scumbags out to get a quick lazy buck. i am UNWILLING TO BELIEVE THAT THE RICH (or the poor, or any other class of people for that matter) ARE EVIL, SO I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ANOTHER EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THEY ARE SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THE POOR. this study actually says something about that, imo. so please, don't keep repeating that ruse that rich people are evil. poor people don't think that, and neither do the rich. you are going to have to do better than simply repeating the same nonsense that we have all heard a thousand times from now on. at least with me, it is no longer working. the video does talk about many negative traits of rich people and I disagree. If you don't want me to use the word "evil" - fine, no problem As far as poor not "hating" rich and want to be rich - yeah, they want to be rich. Have you ever noticed that if one person from a poor family "makes it", the other family members think that he should be sharing or helping them? I call THAT entitlement, what do YOU call it? And I think that feeling is very predominant among the "poor". May be I don't know enough of wealthy or really rich people, but I haven't observed all that entitlement everyone is talking about And you and I already had this conversation (although, I don't know why, since you don't seem to remember any of it) - this rich vs poor thing.
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Post by workpublic on Jul 18, 2013 8:09:49 GMT -5
ack polly want a cracker rich people suck, rich people suck only rich republicans though, only rich republicans though
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Post by jkapp on Jul 18, 2013 8:32:49 GMT -5
here is why i thought this study was fascinating. there is a common sound bite that is repeated over and over again, about how the poor are theiving weasels with their grubby hands in the pockets of the rich- that they are lazy goodfornothings looking for the next meal voucher or government handout. that they are tightwads and selfish, and worthless. the implication is that they lie more, they steal more, and that they only care about themselves. but what this study shows is just the opposite. there is more natural empathy than the rich. they are less likely to lie, steal, or hoard. they are basically....for lack of a better term....good people. this is totally contrary to popular mythology, and my challenge to everyone here is to guess WHY that is the case. hint: look at the social class of the Ministry Of Information. Right...because the prisons are full of rich thieves and robbers. I am far from being rich, but having worked several of those lower level jobs that pay squat, I can say (from my experiences) that many of my co-workers had piss poor work ethics. They showed up late (or sometimes not at all), left early, slacked off on the job, but then expected raises and promotions just for being there. You see, anecdotal evidence can work both ways, can't it? There are just as many scum bag poor as there are scumbag rich. Yet poor neighborhoods are some of the most dangerous places in this country. And its not because the poor are stealing and killing for survival... And both rich and poor can be greedy. I'm reminded of a lady on a local news story harping about how was she supposed to support her family of four on $400 of food stamps each month? So she was getting something for free, yet it was not enough for her. And the fact that she was 400 lbs (rough estimate ) told me that at least one person in the family was getting plenty of food...maybe that one person could sacrifice a little bit so the rest of the family could eat on that $400 budget?? Oh no! SACRIFICE?! Heaven forfend!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2013 8:33:53 GMT -5
So it is not the rich people's fault that they are assholes. It is just human nature that if you get rich you become an asshole.
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