milee
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Post by milee on Mar 31, 2013 12:21:26 GMT -5
Not to hijack the Santa thread (plus, I think I'm already skating on thin ice over there and don't want Santa to put me on the "naughty" list so it's time to step out of that thead!), but it reminded me of the question of what you tell children about different topics.
I have a friend who is struggling with what to tell her son about medication. For the last several years, he has struggled with some physical control issues. The family has taken him to a series of specialists and done multiple tests, none of which have turned up any detectible reason for the problem. They are now exploring psychological and mental issues and believe he may have ADHD, which is preventing him from receiving certain signals. The dad is opposed to any medication, but the mom is reluctantly ready to try medication because the effects of the control issues are starting to have a large impact on the boy at school and are causing him self-esteem issues.
He is a very bright 6 year old and she is not sure what to tell him about the medication. She's also not sure what to tell him about the possibility of having ADHD.
How do you handle issues like this with your children?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 31, 2013 12:25:15 GMT -5
Why would you NOT tell the child what is going on? You would probably explain it in terms a 6 year old would understand, but shouldn't the child be told what is going on in his own body so he can help himself?
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 31, 2013 12:27:52 GMT -5
Why would you NOT tell the child what is going on? You would probably explain it in terms a 6 year old would understand, but shouldn't the child be told what is going on in his own body so he can help himself? Preaching to the choir, sister. But I think she's worried about the stigma attached not just to kids with ADHD but to kids/families/parents who give their kids ADHD medication. She is similar to me in that she would be uncomfortable asking her son to lie to others and knows if she tells him anything, it's likely to be repeated.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 31, 2013 12:28:33 GMT -5
One of my best friends has an 8 year old son with ADD. She has chosen to medicate him because he was having a horrible time focusing in school and was falling behind despite him being a very bright kid.
she told him it was a "focus" pill and would help him block out all the noises and activities in the classroom that drew his attention away from the teacher.
As far as the ADD, she just told him his brain has a hard time figuring out what he should be focusing on
Death by Chocolate, another poster has a kid with ADHD. She tells him he has a race car brain with bicycle breaks, and the pill will make the brakes work better.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 13:02:00 GMT -5
I've recommended this book before but "We've got issues" by Judith Warner is a really sympathetic look at families who's kids struggle with problems such as these and need medications. I think the ideas presented here are good ones in terms of telling him. I guess one of the things I would tell the mom is that there is a larger stigma associated with the behavior that kids with ADD/ADHD exhibit. Speaking of which - I have my appointment with an ADD specialist this week. We'll see what he says.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Mar 31, 2013 13:05:06 GMT -5
DD is probably ADD. We started the process of having her tested, but chose to not pursue it. She also is allergic to or reacts either badly or not as you may expect to any medication she has ever taken. So meds aren't really an option.
So yes, we do talk about medication and drugs, both prescription and illegal. She had to be watched closely any time she takes anything for any reason. Just last week she was given valium in the emergency room. She reacted as if she'd taken LSD.
We have made sure that she always has a physical outlet for her energy. It really does make a difference in her ability to focus when she needs to. We've been addressing this since she first went to school. She needed to learn the difference in how she felt and acted on days when she expended the energy in positive, physical ways as opposed to floundering, unable to focus on the things she needed to do.
I did talk to her about medications starting when she was five. And it is an ongoing conversation.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 31, 2013 13:42:30 GMT -5
Why would you NOT tell the child what is going on? You would probably explain it in terms a 6 year old would understand, but shouldn't the child be told what is going on in his own body so he can help himself? It depends. My oldest is very good at not making a big deal about things bc he doesn't want to go to the dr/hospital/get shots, etc. So, I have to make sure that when he hurts himself, I get the whole truth out of him about how badly it really hurts. My second kid is a drug-addict in a making. He could eat tylenol for breakfast, lunch and dinner - so with him, it's the opposite - when he tells me something hurts - I have to make sure that it actually does. So, I am very careful about meds, etc with both of them, for different reasons. I think you have to know your child and decide what you want to share at which point. BTW, my DH thinks I am TOO honest with them and he would prefer that I wouldn't "scare" them with some things. I don't know....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 13:59:46 GMT -5
I've noticed some pronounced changes in my own brain functioning based on dietary changes lone..
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Mar 31, 2013 14:11:59 GMT -5
My middle child has ADD, we have always been honest with him about it. When he was in 3rd grade and had a report card with bad marks for behavior (follows directions, is prepared for class, listens and follows directions, handwriting) but all A's, we were honest with him and told him those were things he was not good at. We did not go the medication route, because he never had academic trouble, but always encouraged him to work on things he was not good at. At one point, we seriously thought he would not make it through 6th grade because of his lack of organizational skills.
By high school, things started to really click for him and he ended up being his school's STAR student (highest SAT/grades in his class). He gave a really funny speech to his school about all his issues in elementary school to encourage those who did not fit in to the perfect student model.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Mar 31, 2013 15:00:11 GMT -5
We started 8yo DS on ADD meds in December. He's been on the autism spectrum since 2.5yo but I never thought to explore ADD since he isn't physically jumpy. We had some issues come this past fall that made me willing to try it and it has been fabulous. The dr and I are starting to wonder if all of DS's social issues (eye contact, non-verbal cues) are so poor because he brain was simply racing too fast to process them. Now instead of DS sitting in the class lost in thought, or wandering at recess lost in thought, he is engaging in his environment. He actually gave a presentation to classmates about hurricanes the other day. Anyway, in DS's case we did something similar to Swamp. We call the meds "focus meds" because DS is fully aware that he gets distracted easily. Even on the meds, he gets distracted about 90% of the time. He knows it is an issue for him and he's happy to take the meds because I told him they would help. I've never used the term autism or ADD with him because those are just labels - we've always just worked with him on specific deficits.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 31, 2013 15:13:03 GMT -5
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but has anyone looked into grain diets in regards to physical and mental problems with kids? Our grand kids are now on a grain free diet and we are noticing some very pronounced changes in their behavior. I would sure hate to think anyone was on a medication, if diet was the problem. She's been pretty thorough with trying things, including a battery of allergy testing and then an elimination diet to rule out allergies. Can't remember all they did the elimination testing for, but do remember it at least included the biggies like gluten, soy and dairy. Then again, she was very comfy that he wasn't eating anything not on the diet at school, but if it were me, I wouldn't be so sure, so maybe the elimination diet wasn't as complete as she thought? Anyway, yes, she did look at possible dietary causes. She also did about 2 years worth of testing for all sorts of other things, including all sorts of physical deformities. Plus, she had him do physical therapy, biofeedback and several other things to try to correct the primary issue with no results. She's driven him 3 hours each way to various specialists to rule things out. His physical control issues aren't a typical ADHD presentation, so that alone wasn't a strong indicator, but when combined with the results of the parent and teacher questionnaire, there's reasonable evidence that he's exhibiting strong signs of ADHD.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 31, 2013 15:25:23 GMT -5
My son has ADHD. He has had a hard time at school for a while. His main symtoms were along the lines of not being able to concentrate and calling out in class and forgetting everything in the blink of an eye. He also makes noises. I can't describe them but if he is awake he is making noise. I have never heard of any stigma because of the meds, just the things they did that made them need the meds. I have never lied to my son but I also never really explained the meds either. Basicially I took him to the Dr's and they said that the meds would help. After 4 years of soul crushing interactions in school we were all at our wits end with him. We also don't mention it much either. No particular reason I just never thought it was something that had anything to do with whatever we were doing. I don't know anyone who is Diabetic or has high blood pressure who makes a point of saying they are on meds in their day to day interactions. DS never asked much about the meds either though. The Dr said he needed medication to help him and he took that the same way he did when the Dr said he needed antibiotics or flouride vitamins. I will say DH was absolutely apposed to DS going on meds for what I think are philosophical reasons. I find it ironic that now that he is on meds, DH is the first one to make sure DS took his meds in the morning.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Mar 31, 2013 15:38:12 GMT -5
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but has anyone looked into grain diets in regards to physical and mental problems with kids? Our grand kids are now on a grain free diet and we are noticing some very pronounced changes in their behavior. I would sure hate to think anyone was on a medication, if diet was the problem. She's been pretty thorough with trying things, including a battery of allergy testing and then an elimination diet to rule out allergies. Can't remember all they did the elimination testing for, but do remember it at least included the biggies like gluten, soy and dairy. Then again, she was very comfy that he wasn't eating anything not on the diet at school, but if it were me, I wouldn't be so sure, so maybe the elimination diet wasn't as complete as she thought? Anyway, yes, she did look at possible dietary causes. She also did about 2 years worth of testing for all sorts of other things, including all sorts of physical deformities. Plus, she had him do physical therapy, biofeedback and several other things to try to correct the primary issue with no results. She's driven him 3 hours each way to various specialists to rule things out. His physical control issues aren't a typical ADHD presentation, so that alone wasn't a strong indicator, but when combined with the results of the parent and teacher questionnaire, there's reasonable evidence that he's exhibiting strong signs of ADHD. We also spent a small fortune on diets/supplements/metals&allergy testing/chelation/therapy/etc. The diets didn't do anything for DS. That said, I've met people where going GF/CF made a huge difference for their kids. I don't think it is a one size fits all thing.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Mar 31, 2013 15:43:53 GMT -5
This is my experience, too. My kid is ostracized for his behaviors, not his diagnosis. Getting the meds (and having him behave more "normally") has actually helped him fit in and be accepted more.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 31, 2013 16:01:49 GMT -5
There's so many kids with so many different issues, that the chances of your child feeling odd man out is pretty slim. I remember when a kid with braces was a freak. Now a kid without them is!
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Mar 31, 2013 16:38:54 GMT -5
We bought the house next door to DH's high school friends. They had a daughter that was diagnosed with ADHD. This girl ran the course from outbursts to inappropriate behavior to eating drywall. One of her favorite hobbies was trying to burn the house down. Her parents had a script for ritalin to get her through 12 years of public school (actually she didn't have any symptoms until about 2nd grade).
When she was in high school, her mother read an article about caffiene and it's affect on ADHD. The girl switched to 2 diet Mt. Dews for breakfast and was able to leave the narcotics behind. Her life is not the same as the next person. She needs to work harder at things, but kids do learn how to cope. It takes a tremendous amount of trial and error to help a kid with ADHD grow up.
When you see something like this in public, please be slow to pass judgement. Some of the brightest minds in modern history started out as uncontrollable children. People are who they are.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 18:30:49 GMT -5
She should definitely talk with her son. There's a pill for everything and kids need to learn to use their brains to make decisions early. When DH was about 5, he had an ear infection and balked when I tried to get him to take the antibiotic, plus the pain reliever, plus the decongestant. I explained the functions of all of them and told him the antibiotic was non-negotiable but it was his decision on the other two. He chose one of them- I forget which.
Later, when he was 11, a psychiatrist diagnised him with ADD nad offered to write a prescription for Ritalin. I told DS it was up to him, and that if he did decide to take it and then didn't like what it was doing to his brain, he could stop with no argument from me. He chose not to try it and did much better in school after I put him into a military academy with smalller classes and more structure, but stumbled in college and decided to try Ritalin. Two days later he quit, saying it made him feel "homicidal". Fortunately, Adderall worked without those side effects and he and his therapist were eventually able to get him organized and change some of his eating habits, his sleep habits (more regular) and some of the ways he organized thinsg and eventually he quit the Adderall. It got him through a bumpy spot but I'm glad he found a way to get off of it. And what better job for an ADD type than claims handling for an insurer, where he's juggling a lot of claims at once and every one has a different story?
Anyway- the earlier your friend's DS learns, the better. Some pills cure what ails you. Some have bad side effects. Some have minor side effects and you can get through without them if you suffer a little. He may be young but he knows his body better than anyone because he lives in it, and he should learn early to think critically about prescriptions.
And I'll bet there are some very good books written at an age-appropriate level for kids with ADD.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Mar 31, 2013 21:54:14 GMT -5
I know a guy who didn't know he was "different" until he was an adult. It was obvious to everyone, but his mom tried to isolate him from finding out "the truth". She finally took him to a doctor who prescribed some meds and the guy was crushed because he found out he "was slow". My son is an Aspie. It sucks, but I try to be as honest as I can with him because I'd rather he hear it from me than just thinking other kids think he's "weird". He's not much different than me and since I've found this out about him, it's made much of my life make a lot more sense. Helping him learn to cope has helped me realize just how different I really am, and how other people see me sometimes (I've gotten comments that I'm "cold" because I don't sugar coat or have a lot of sympathy for "stupid people" who should know better, now I make the attempt to filter what I say more because I realize I may have hurt people without meaning to). If my son had to take medication, I'd try to explain to him the best way I could for him to understand. I'd want to know if he felt funny, if it made him sick, etc, and I think these questions would scare him more if I just started asking them out of no where (after he started getting "vitamins" with breakfast). I would try to downplay it some because he tends to have the over reaction when he's scared. It sucks when he says things like "my teachers think I'm retarded because I go to LAP", but trying to figure out he's not "normal" with everyone else pretending he was would be more stressful for him. I think. At least with that open communication we can talk about the *real* issue, not dance around it and be in fear I'll slip. Honestly, seems like a crap shoot either way, especially when both ways kind of suck. ETA: I love CL's "race car brain, bicycle brakes". I still haven't figured out the best way to explain it to DS--he'd probably think Sheldon Cooper was nearly normal
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Mar 31, 2013 22:46:28 GMT -5
My two great nephews are on medications. One for ADHD and one for Autism. It has made life bearable for the ADHD one the other I don't know cause I see him so infrequently .
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Apr 1, 2013 10:28:09 GMT -5
My son is 6-1/2 and high functioning autism, diagnosed at 3-1/2.
At age 5-1/2 we started him on Tenex. It's a blood pressure medication used off-label to improve focus and lower energy levels. We found that when he was less energetic, he was able to focus much better and better at controling his body. He has control issues like sticking his legs out and someone might trip over them, or waving his arms and accidentally hitting people, etc.
This past January we starting exploring some of the ADHD medications, and he is now on the generic Concerta extended release. This has been a night and day experience. I can ask him to put on his shoes and he will go up to his room, and put on his shoes, rather than get distracted by his legos and not be ready to go after half an hour.
He's been on them long enough that he knows he gets his "morning pill" and "evening pill." We've always explained it as "Daddy takes medication for his eyes to help his eyes work better, you take medication so that you can control your body a little better." (Dad has glaucoma) I am not afraid to use the word autism in front of him, but we've never had a sit down conversation about it. I will when he asks about it. He knows that his brain works a little differently from everyone elses. There are some things I draw the line at to avoid having him identified as having autism (he's not going to the Special Olympics trip in May) but I have no problem telling his teachers and friend's parents. Autism is a part of who he is - it's not the only part, but it is a part.
As far as dealing with other parents - this is just one thing you have to stand your ground on. A lot of people think it's being lazy because you don't want to parent - if you were a good parent you'd do all kinds of crazy therapies or just have him on a special diet or just discipline them. You can see it in the responses here already - that you should try everything else first and use medication only as a last resort. You need to make other parents understand that this is your decision - that you weren't pushed into it by the school or by the doctors, that you have made the best decision for your child.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 1, 2013 10:39:51 GMT -5
One of my best friends has an 8 year old son with ADD. She has chosen to medicate him because he was having a horrible time focusing in school and was falling behind despite him being a very bright kid. she told him it was a "focus" pill and would help him block out all the noises and activities in the classroom that drew his attention away from the teacher. As far as the ADD, she just told him his brain has a hard time figuring out what he should be focusing on Death by Chocolate, another poster has a kid with ADHD. She tells him he has a race car brain with bicycle breaks, and the pill will make the brakes work better. I got that from Dr. Ned Hallowell's book. Driven To Distraction I think it's called. He has a very positive outlook on ADHD and has it himself.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 1, 2013 10:44:03 GMT -5
My son is 6-1/2 and high functioning autism, diagnosed at 3-1/2. At age 5-1/2 we started him on Tenex. It's a blood pressure medication used off-label to improve focus and lower energy levels. We found that when he was less energetic, he was able to focus much better and better at controling his body. He has control issues like sticking his legs out and someone might trip over them, or waving his arms and accidentally hitting people, etc. This past January we starting exploring some of the ADHD medications, and he is now on the generic Concerta extended release. This has been a night and day experience. I can ask him to put on his shoes and he will go up to his room, and put on his shoes, rather than get distracted by his legos and not be ready to go after half an hour. He's been on them long enough that he knows he gets his "morning pill" and "evening pill." We've always explained it as "Daddy takes medication for his eyes to help his eyes work better, you take medication so that you can control your body a little better." (Dad has glaucoma) I am not afraid to use the word autism in front of him, but we've never had a sit down conversation about it. I will when he asks about it. He knows that his brain works a little differently from everyone elses. There are some things I draw the line at to avoid having him identified as having autism (he's not going to the Special Olympics trip in May) but I have no problem telling his teachers and friend's parents. Autism is a part of who he is - it's not the only part, but it is a part. As far as dealing with other parents - this is just one thing you have to stand your ground on. A lot of people think it's being lazy because you don't want to parent - if you were a good parent you'd do all kinds of crazy therapies or just have him on a special diet or just discipline them. You can see it in the responses here already - that you should try everything else first and use medication only as a last resort. You need to make other parents understand that this is your decision - that you weren't pushed into it by the school or by the doctors, that you have made the best decision for your child.If we still had karma, you'd get some for that! You'd never think of depriving someone of their glasses or their insulin but god forbid you should think about medication to treat ADHD. <<sigh>>
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 1, 2013 11:16:11 GMT -5
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After nearly 18 months of trying to solve my (then 5 year old) daughter's anxiety problem, we found a doctor who suggested medication. Two weeks later her symptoms started to subside. Within 2 months she was totally normal. I wish I hadn't felt so obligated to try a bunch of crap that had no history of working, and had tried medication earlier. Her brain synopsis wasn't working properly. It was a physical problem.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 11:26:32 GMT -5
After nearly 18 months of trying to solve my (then 5 year old) daughter's anxiety problem, we found a doctor who suggested medication. Two weeks later her symptoms started to subside. Within 2 months she was totally normal. I wish I hadn't felt so obligated to try a bunch of crap that had no history of working, and had tried medication earlier. Her brain synapses wasn't working properly. It was a physical problem. While I'm a big advocate of talk therapy and think it should be used more often (and better reimbursed), there are people whose brain chemistry just isn't what it's supposed to be. If medication can set it straight, then that's the answer. One of the nicest, smartest, most productive guys I knew at a previous employer told me was was on antidepressants. His mother had had depression and she eventually killed herself. Meds just put his brain on a level playing field with everyone else's.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 1, 2013 11:27:00 GMT -5
I am straight up with my kids. This is a medication the doctor wants to prescribe you to keep you healthy. My son went on ADHD meds for awhile and we just explained what it was. Honesty is always the best approach.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 1, 2013 11:27:54 GMT -5
And, to be less than honest implies that there is something to be ashamed of or something wrong. I don't really see the problem with telling a child the truth.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Apr 1, 2013 11:29:20 GMT -5
Well said and I completely agree with you. FWIW, my son is on both Concerta and Intuniv and I regret we waited until he was 8yo to even consider trying them. That said, I still get scared about possible ramifications of these drugs. It says in the drugs' literature that scientists don't know how they work on the brain...just that they do. And there aren't any long term safety studies of these drugs on developing children. So while I'm so grateful they exist and I'm so happy with how much they help my son, I think the adage "medication only as a last resort" has some merit. It's a VERY difficult decision to make and I feel a bit of dread every time I give my son the pill.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 1, 2013 11:37:11 GMT -5
Well said and I completely agree with you. FWIW, my son is on both Concerta and Intuniv and I regret we waited until he was 8yo to even consider trying them. That said, I still get scared about possible ramifications of these drugs. It says in the drugs' literature that scientists don't know how they work on the brain...just that they do. And there aren't any long term safety studies of these drugs on developing children. So while I'm so grateful they exist and I'm so happy with how much they help my son, I think the adage "medication only as a last resort" has some merit. It's a VERY difficult decision to make and I feel a bit of dread every time I give my son the pill. Refresh my memory, isn't Concerta derived out of either the Ritalin or Adderal family? They've been in use for ages. I can't recall what Intuniv is, we haven't used it, but IIRC Concerta was one or the other, just in a hard to abuse form and long release. DS has been on Concerta for over a year so I'm a bit rusty on all the specifics at this point. I just know that it's a night and day difference in how he does all around. lol ETA: and they have to CYA on all the inserts/informational junk. Don't let it scare you too much.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Apr 1, 2013 11:42:35 GMT -5
Concerta's like Ritalin. They are both Methylphenidate. The labeling covers every possible bad thing that happened in trials and thereafter. Most labeling also includes the percentage of occurrence and many are less than 1%. Not saying you shouldn't be looking for side effects but don't assume your child will suffer from all of those.
As for the lack of long term studies, there usually aren't for children. There's a whole host of issues associated with running clinical trials on children.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 1, 2013 11:46:20 GMT -5
Concerta's like Ritalin. They are both Methylphenidate. The labeling covers every possible bad thing that happened in trials and thereafter. Most labeling also includes the percentage of occurrence and many are less than 1%. Not saying you shouldn't be looking for side effects but don't assume your child will suffer from all of those. As for the lack of long term studies, there usually aren't for children. There's a whole host of issues associated with running clinical trials on children. Thanks, I knew someone would know The worst side effect any of these medications have ever had on DS is a verbal tic. Constant throat clearing. Changed the meds, it was gone.
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