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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 12:32:03 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just not thinking this through enough, but what could someone need help for if they aren't hurting themselves or others? That is the thing: they are not causing any physical harm so we cannot force them into a mental hospital. But they : - got fired or resigned from their job - spending frivolously, money they don't have. - hanging out with a new group of friends that no one knows or trust - not spending time with her son when she has him - also have not been taking her medication or seeing her therapist for at least 6 months
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 25, 2013 12:32:10 GMT -5
If that is situation, the reason for the breakdown must be addressed. It should be but her family attaches a huge stigma to mental illness. They have chosen to sweep it under the rug and pretend like everything is just fine. They removed her from the hospital when she needed more time to recover. That's quite unfortunate. Will the family be able to sweep it under the rug if she criminally harms someone else? Too many families try to hide mental illness and then the sick family member goes postal on innocent victims.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2013 12:34:14 GMT -5
So, there is definitely harm to herself.
But, people with mental illnesses by definition make bad decisions. So, it is very aspirational of you to believe that you can say something that will make her suddenly make good decisions.
Ain't gonna happen.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 25, 2013 12:34:17 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just not thinking this through enough, but what could someone need help for if they aren't hurting themselves or others? That is the thing: they are not causing any physical harm so we cannot force them into a mental hospital. But they : - got fired or resigned from their job - spending frivolously, money they don't have. - hanging out with a new group of friends that no one knows or trust - not spending time with her son when she has him - also have not been taking her medication or seeing her therapist for at least 6 months she is hurting herself and her son, but you can't force anyone to do anything.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2013 12:36:05 GMT -5
Sorry - didn't mean to hit "post."
The only way a change in her life will come about, is if things get bad for her. So, her mother needs to stop bailing her out. She needs to have a huge fail. You would think the job loss would be a fail - but people lose jobs all the time. Maybe homeless? Maybe losing custody? You never know when someone will look themselves in the mirror and decide to make a change. But it won't be because her cousin's husband said "Maybe you need some help."
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 25, 2013 12:38:05 GMT -5
Sorry - didn't mean to hit "post." The only way a change in her life will come about, is if things get bad for her. So, her mother needs to stop bailing her out. She needs to have a huge fail. You would think the job loss would be a fail - but people lose jobs all the time. Maybe homeless? Maybe losing custody? You never know when someone will look themselves in the mirror and decide to make a change. But it won't be because her cousin's husband said "Maybe you need some help." I think a stint in a mental hospital might drive home the fact she needs help more than cousin's husband telling her she needs help. And her family isn't helping the situation. Going to Haiti with her, going shopping, gettings tats together is enabling her. It's like they're pretending they can shop her happy.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 25, 2013 12:38:17 GMT -5
Sorry - didn't mean to hit "post." The only way a change in her life will come about, is if things get bad for her. So, her mother needs to stop bailing her out. She needs to have a huge fail. You would think the job loss would be a fail - but people lose jobs all the time. Maybe homeless? Maybe losing custody? You never know when someone will look themselves in the mirror and decide to make a change. But it won't be because her cousin's husband said "Maybe you need some help." I think a stint in a mental hospital might drive home the fact she needs help more than cousin's husband telling her she needs help. And her family isn't helping the situation. Going to Haiti with her, going shopping, gettings tats together is enabling her. It's like they're pretending they can shop her happy.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2013 12:39:50 GMT -5
But she had a stint in a mental hospital, and it didn't help. Her mom needs to back off. If she suddenly loses that safety net, she will have to really think about her situation.[/span]
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 12:40:24 GMT -5
But she had a stint in a mental hospital, and it didn't help. Her mom needs to back off. If she suddenly loses that safety net, she will have to really think about her situation. [/span][/quote] Or crash further and never dig out of that hole.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 25, 2013 12:40:32 GMT -5
Sorry - didn't mean to hit "post." The only way a change in her life will come about, is if things get bad for her. So, her mother needs to stop bailing her out. She needs to have a huge fail. You would think the job loss would be a fail - but people lose jobs all the time. Maybe homeless? Maybe losing custody? You never know when someone will look themselves in the mirror and decide to make a change. But it won't be because her cousin's husband said "Maybe you need some help." It is probably different for those with a mental illness (they don't/can't see it), but change won't happen until they realize they have hit rock bottom (alcoholics in recovery).
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 25, 2013 12:41:48 GMT -5
But she had a stint in a mental hospital, and it didn't help. Her mom needs to back off. If she suddenly loses that safety net, she will have to really think about her situation. [/span][/quote] Sorry, that should have said "you'd think" not "I think" It didn't drive home the point because mom took her out and is continuing to clean up her messes.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 25, 2013 12:47:09 GMT -5
Well, if she has no job and she's spending like crazy the bottom just may catch up with her pretty fast. The speed depending on how much her family enables her on the way down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 12:47:45 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just not thinking this through enough, but what could someone need help for if they aren't hurting themselves or others? That is the thing: they are not causing any physical harm so we cannot force them into a mental hospital. But they : - got fired or resigned from their job - spending frivolously, money they don't have. - hanging out with a new group of friends that no one knows or trust - not spending time with her son when she has him - also have not been taking her medication or seeing her therapist for at least 6 months Sounds like you care enough to worry about them. Only thing you can do this point is just express how you feel about their current situation. And tell them, because you care.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 12:50:13 GMT -5
I have no intention if talking to her because I know if I do I will be way to blunt; but it is starting to affect my wife and that is pissing me off majorly.
She started calling my wife and talking to her. We suspected that she got fired or resigned but she never told anyone expect my wife. Actually they had to catch her in a lie to know for sure.
My wife does not want to be honest with her because she feels the last thing she needs right now is another person judging her or telling her what to so. So she is being that person that she can talk to with no repercussions etc.
But then my wife is keeping me up at night worried sick about her cousin an her choices.
Ex: she claims she quit her job because it was too stressful and she cannot deal with that right now. And what now she is just trying to relax/have some fun, take care of herself because she has so much on her plate.
All great and dandy but who is going to pay her bills? She fought for custody and get him 4 days one week and 3 the next etc, but she is not spending time with her son. Instead going out with those new people we don't know, paint balling Saturday, getting her nails done twice a week, etc. WTF?
My wife is pissed at me because she thinks I am being too cavalier about the situation and not taking it seriously. No offense but I got bigger fish to fry!!!
Now my MIL is worried sick about her sister because this is affecting her too. She canceled her trip to Haiti so she can be with her sister: all she does when she is not working is pray and cry.
Personally, I feel they should both head to a mental hospital but no one asked me.
Don't get me wrong; I feel bad for the girl but this should have been dealt with last year when she had her first breakdown and not allowed to fester and dragged another year.
Funny my wife made me realized it is at the 1 year mark/anniversary and she is showing the exact same signs.
So like I said: one shoe already dropped (no job like last year);are they waiting for the other one to drop before they do anything?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2013 12:50:16 GMT -5
First have an intervention with her mother. If that works, you can all have an intervention with her.
If her mother blows you off, then let them be a soup sandwich. There is no saving that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 12:55:20 GMT -5
Sounds like you just need to be there for your wife so she can be there for her cousin.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 25, 2013 12:56:24 GMT -5
The best thing you can do for this person is to be honest to them. It's not doing them any favors to pretend everything is fine.
your wife doesn't have to tell her what to do, just tell her that she is not making wise choices and she should re-consider them. Also note that her kid needs her, not a paintball playing acrylic nailed momma.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 13:00:20 GMT -5
I have no intention if talking to her because I know if I do I will be way to blunt; but it is starting to affect my wife and that is pissing me off majorly.
But then my wife is keeping me up at night worried sick about her cousin an her choices.
The key point is it became you and your wife's problem. I don't know your situation well enough to tell you what's best for you, two. But try not let it become you guys problem as well. Try to distance from it. That's best I can say.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 25, 2013 13:10:50 GMT -5
Who exactly is doing that? From what you've posted, it sounds like everyone is either enabling her (trips, tattoos, shopping) or tiptoeing around on eggshells. Where is the tough love coming from?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 25, 2013 13:12:47 GMT -5
"How can you get convince someone that is not causing any harm to themselves or others to get some help?" I don't understand. If they are not causing any harm to themselves or others, what's the problem. Do you mean not causing any problem yet if you can convince them they are heading down the wrong track? Yeah, I don't get it either. If someone isn't harming themselves or others, leave them alone. Otherwise show them HOW they are harming themselves or others. I literally can't think of a single thing which is not harming yourself or others that someone should be seeking help for. Hoops what about an alcoholic? I only know one person who is an alcoholic who never drinks and drives. I think it is ridiculous that the courts don't force drunk drivers into treatment. The danger to yourself or others is a standard for mental health treatment. It is so strict as to result in most people who could be helped with some mental health treatment not getting care. When my Dad is having a bi-polar episode he talks really fast and he often does not make sense. His thoughts are racing so much he can't talk that fast. He will jump from subject to subject. My brother is really good at getting Dad to admit that having the racing thoughts does not feel good and getting him to agree to go to the hospital to get some help with that. I have told my Mom that I don't think she or I could ever get the same result - I don't know if it is becasue it is coming from his Son, or if it is becasue it is Man to Man but my Dad just responds differently to things my brother says. When we were kids my Mom would often get my Dad's cousin or a Priest from the church to talk to Dad. While some of you think they are not exibiting behaviour that is a danger to themselves or others, at what point do they cross over the line to uncontrolable anger or depression? My Dad was an electrician. When he get bi-polar he will re-wire things. He will take the sockets apart, he fiddles with the TV and he even took the light fixture apart in his hospital room one time. When he is bi-polar he loses the ability to track and think straight so he could very well start a fire or electocute himself.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Mar 25, 2013 13:14:35 GMT -5
Who exactly is doing that? From what you've posted, it sounds like everyone is either enabling her (trips, tattoos, shopping) or tiptoeing around on eggshells. Where is the tough love coming from? This is exactly what I was thinking! If people are telling her what to do, they're doing a lousy job of it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 13:21:31 GMT -5
Sounds like you just need to be there for your wife so she can be there for her cousin. I've tried Archie but I am just not that guy. I have tried the biting my tongue and telling my wife everything will be ok but I can't. One thing she will tell you is that I am always honest or a jerk because to her they are both the same.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 13:23:04 GMT -5
Sounds like you just need to be there for your wife so she can be there for her cousin. I've tried Archie but I am just not that guy. I have tried the biting my tongue and telling my wife everything will be ok but I can't. One thing she will tell you is that I am always honest or a jerk because to her they are both the same. Maybe you need some therapy.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2013 13:25:59 GMT -5
Actually - therapy might be a little strong of a word, but you and your wife might want to go talk to someone to learn how to deal with close family's problems. If it is causing problems because your wife is worked up and making her think you are a jerk, and there is nothing you can do to fix the actual problem - maybe someone can help you two develop some tools to either suggest solutions to the person in peril, and to put other people's problems away for a while. Your crazy family can infest your lives if you or your wife lets them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 13:26:30 GMT -5
Who exactly is doing that? From what you've posted, it sounds like everyone is either enabling her (trips, tattoos, shopping) or tiptoeing around on eggshells. Where is the tough love coming from? This is exactly what I was thinking! If people are telling her what to do, they're doing a lousy job of it. I never said they were any good lol! They are more the passive aggressive type and they need to be blunt.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 25, 2013 13:28:27 GMT -5
Unless people in your family start "believing" in mental illness and getting help for it nothing's going to change.
If she were to hurt herself or the kid she could be locked up for 48-72 hours like last time, but after that she'd be free to go. You can't commit adults against their will.
If I was your wife I'd tell her she needs to get her shit together and until she does, stop calling me. BTDT with a friend of mine. Otherwise you get yourself sucked into the drama which then bleeds over into your relationships.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Mar 25, 2013 13:29:23 GMT -5
This is exactly what I was thinking! If people are telling her what to do, they're doing a lousy job of it. I never said they were any good lol! Point taken.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 25, 2013 13:41:14 GMT -5
::Hoops what about an alcoholic?::
Uhhh waht about it? Being an alcoholic is pretty clearly harming yourself, so I'm not sure I see hwo that applies to a discussion of "someone who never harms themselves or others".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 13:59:42 GMT -5
Actually - therapy might be a little strong of a word, but you and your wife might want to go talk to someone to learn how to deal with close family's problems. If it is causing problems because your wife is worked up and making her think you are a jerk, and there is nothing you can do to fix the actual problem - maybe someone can help you two develop some tools to either suggest solutions to the person in peril, and to put other people's problems away for a while. Your crazy family can infest your lives if you or your wife lets them. It is more like me not taking it as seriously as her and that pisses her off. Ex: - DW: I talk to X today, she resigned. - Me: You mean she got fired? Lol! - DW: No she resigned because it was stressing her out and she was only getting paid 47k. - Me: What? Is she even worth that much? Stupid move quitting (Wife starting to get annoyed) - DW : I am worried about her - Me: Why? Her mom will bail her out - DW: I don't think she can - Me : so X, or X or X (naming other family members) - DW: you are not taking this seriously - Me: what is there to take seriously? She had gone coocoo for coco puffs. - DW: you are a jerk - Me: (start singing I am a jerk song). (Now she is mad). - DW: you are not listening to me - Me: yes I am and I am envious that you have nothing going in your life that your cousin is your biggest concern - DW: you are a dick - Me: that you love. Either way, I have bigger fish to fry then worry about your cousin that made her bed by making all the wrong choices. (Now she is livid) Basically I just refused to get sucks into this mess that everyone has upgraded to priority #1. Ain't nobody got time for that!!! So I wonder if there is a way to drop off her cousin in a mental hospital against her will or should I pretend she beat me senseless next time I see her?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 25, 2013 14:03:17 GMT -5
Sorry - but you aren't being very helpful. I think people often spout off in cruel ways under the guise of being "honest." Learning to be kind in thought and word will make your marriage better over time. You don't have to prove you are smarter than your wife and your cousin by demanding the truth about quitting or being fired. You don't have to prove that you understand the world better than your wife and your cousin by announcing that she isn't worth $47k. You are just being mean, and no good will come from it. You could find a better way to express yourself.
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